Quantcast
Is your car your pride and joy, or are you ready for a change? Let us know and you could win a £300 John Lewis voucher | No thanks

Four Cases of VAG EA189 Emissions Fix Failing on Tiguan 2.0TDIs

Published 17 August 2016

Since 12th July we have received four reports of the VAG EA189 emissions fix to Volkswagen Tiguan 2.0TDIs resulting in significant problems and VW seemingly having no answer.

12-7-2016: Report that VAG NOx software fix to 2014 Tiguan 2.0TDI 140 DSG has resulted in a significant clatter under load at speeds up to 40mph and engine speeds up to 1,600rpm. Suggests that the software fix reduces fuelling and therefore torque at low rpm.

11-8-2016: Another report of a Tiguan TDI, this time a 2012, developing "a horrible rattle in engine when changing up between 2 and 4." VW told owner she needs to pay for a diagnostic test and if it shows that it is due to the fix then they will refund. She had the fix done by a mobile unit from VW direct. She asked the nearest VW dealer how much this diagnostic test would cost and they quoted £100 but also said they had seen several Tiguans with this problem following the fix and that there was updated software that could be applied and if she'd had the emissions fix with them they would suggest doing this first before a diagnostic test. She needs to get onto the original supplying VW dealer and tell him to sort it out FoC or she will sue.

14-8-2016: Third report of knocking from the engine of a Volkswagen Toguan 2.0TDI after the VAG EA189 emissions software fix, this time on a 2013 Tiguan. It recently went to the VW dealer to have the software update supposed to address the emissions problem. Prior to the update the car was running perfectly well, but after the change it started to rattle very noticeably under light to moderate acceleration along with increased fuel consumption. Subsequently the dealer took it back for investigation (apparently involving info from the VW factory) which took a week (owner was provided with a loan car). This resulted in a further software modification. Owner got car back a week ago. Since then it has started to exhibit the same rattling and fuel consumption symptoms. Having given it what he thinks is a reasonable amount of time and mileage, owner will report the present problem on Monday 15th and see what the dealer proposes to do. 

17-8-2016: Fourth report of emissions modification to a a 31k mile 2012 VW Tiguan 2.0TDI failing and leaving the owner with a noisy, unresponsive machine completely at odds with the driving experienced prior to modification. The car was returned to the dealer who, in concert with Volkswagen, retained the car for almost 6 weeks. It was returned last week and, if anything, is worse, possibly dangerous with unreliable throttle response. The dealer visited the owner's home on 16th August, acknowledged the issues but has done nothing. He cannot fix the car to a satisfactory standard and will not buy it back. Owner had the car from new and it is modified for disabled use.

This owner states: "We are at a loss. Full independent assessment and anticipated legal costs seem to preclude court action even if you can find a Lawyer prepared to take on VW. None of the Magazines or Newspapers will respond. I have many letters to the parties without acknowledgement or response. I will happily provide all the effort and paperwork if someone would shine a light on these cheating so and so's Do You have an Answer? Could You publish a full article there are many in trouble with this engine?" 

Comments

DirtyDieselDogg    on 17 August 2016

Since I "took on" the might of the VW/Skoda Empire re the not-uncommon DSG dropping clean out of gear, at low throttle opening issue , and despite paying £600.00 to an absolutly top-notch Motor Engineer (plus travel & accomodation on the Mainland costs) for a damming report.

Which I presented to Skoda UK.

However after being "threatened" via Shoosmiths with the Hight Court and £20,000-£25,000 costs, if I could not satisfactorily prove my case.

I LET THE MATTER DROP.

This bullying behaviour is quite shameful for a supposedly reputable company.

I even volunteered where the problem lay, a software interface between the throttle pentiometer, the transmission, and the IP.

CHEERS

MARCUS

co2blues    on 20 August 2016

My 2013 Audi Allroad 2.0 tdi I bought new is due for a service towards the end of this year when , I have been advised that Audi expect to apply a "fix" to address the emission scandal by then. However, in view of the letters in your column about the problems caused to Tiguans with the same engine where "the fix" has been applied and the shameful subsequent treatment meted out by VW, I am not at all sure I want to entrust my Audi to an Audi/VW dealer who might arbitrarily apply "the fix" and cause me similar problems encountered by your other readers. What would you suggest ?

lancsman957    on 20 August 2016

I would get them to sign a document stating they will NOT touch the emissions side of the engine.If shown to be "fixed" after you receive car back. ie do the fix,resulting in poor running?

They would then be in breach of the contract you made with them.

I'm not a lawyer but a contracts a contract and we won't be getting either of our cars "Fixed" by VW untill it's well sorted out...

co2blues    on 22 August 2016

Since writing this I have seen a post made on 30 July by James176 to which Honest John advised him to go ahead with getting the fix - despite posts advising of real problems caused by VW applying "the fix".
So, who do we believe ? Actual owners experiences with VW/Audi , Honest John, or VW/Audi public relations pronouncements ?
Sorry HJ, VW but my money is on actual, factual experiences and on this basis I conclude that VW/Audi are treating their customers with total disrespect on top of their proven dishonesty.
That journalists should now side with the VW attitude of "problem ? ....what problem" ? is very disappointing and leaves us hapless owners of these fraudulent cars with no allies other than some MPs who appear to understand the degree of injustice being foisted on us.

Marc Nesbitt    on 3 September 2016

I have foolishly had my emissions recall update carried out on my 2013 Scirocco TDI 177 on Tuesday 30th at the same time as the annual service. The first thing I noticed was the engine rattle, I actually thought it was short of oil or the cap hadn't been replaced after the service.For a car with 23K miles it sounds really rough. I have also noticed that if you lift the bonnet the whole engine is vibrating, so bad that you cant focus on the engine cover for it moving about. The torque at low revs has also been affected making it less responsive.

I went back to the dealer yesterday and asked them to re-instate the original software. I even offered to pay for the labour costs. They told me they were unable to reload the old code (or were unwilling to). I phoned an independant specialist that does servicing and ecu remaps and asked them if they could re-instate the original map but they were unable to help. They also told me the remapping upgrades they offer (something I have never done before or even wanted before) cannot be done either as they are based on changes to the original software.

I made a complaint in writing and by telephone to VW on Thursday but they havent responded. Not sure where to go with this now? I started searching the internet, something I should have done before agreeing to the modification, and stumbled on this site and some others where owners have had similar resluts. Worryingly my wife's car is a Tiguan 2.0TDI although that hasn't been recalled yet and wont be going anywhere near VW if I can help it..

Edited by Marc Nesbitt on 03/09/2016 at 10:57

   on 9 October 2016

I took my VW Polo in for emission test and almost immediately noticed poor performance-fuel consumption has gone down by approx 70 miles per tank, she "pulls" and jerks when accelerating at low speeds, the engine keeps "changing speed" when idling and the display that tells you what gear the car thinks you should be in has gone mad whereas before we were more or less in agreement. I could live with most of these except for the poor fuel performance - this is really going to eat into my budget.
The service staff assured me performance wouldn't be affected - saying all the fix does is tell the car when it is idling it's not a test. Considering my use of the car isn't "idling" but driving, why has the performance gone down so much then? I didn't even get offered any paperwork to say I had had the fix done. The cost of making a claim looks prohibitive and likely to be ignored by VW. Does anyone know what I can practically do? I wish I'd never had this fix done, I used to love this little car and after 3 VW's now don't want one for my next car.

alex xela    on 20 November 2016

I took my VW Polo in for emission test and almost immediately noticed poor performance-fuel consumption has gone down by approx 70 miles per tank, she "pulls" and jerks when accelerating at low speeds, the engine keeps "changing speed" when idling and the display that tells you what gear the car thinks you should be in has gone mad whereas before we were more or less in agreement. I could live with most of these except for the poor fuel performance - this is really going to eat into my budget. The service staff assured me performance wouldn't be affected - saying all the fix does is tell the car when it is idling it's not a test. Considering my use of the car isn't "idling" but driving, why has the performance gone down so much then? I didn't even get offered any paperwork to say I had had the fix done. The cost of making a claim looks prohibitive and likely to be ignored by VW. Does anyone know what I can practically do? I wish I'd never had this fix done, I used to love this little car and after 3 VW's now don't want one for my next car.


Sorry to hear that but glad it's not just me. VW main dealer made me believe it was all in my mind as he swore blind that only the "cheat software" was removed and nothing else had been changed. I said that the idling was now inconsistent and pick up was dangerously slow. He said, "well, we don't know what the car was like prior to the update"..thankyou VW...I'm the one being honest and sincere. My car is well looked after with 21k miles.The original letter about the update said that it was an upgrade using technology that wasn't available when the car was manufactured. This suggests that more was done to the running of the car than just removing the cheat mode. From a practical point of view, maybe a remap by a software specialist?

ukoracle    on 12 October 2016

Following the emissions 'fix', I had same 'clatter' issue and reduced power at low revs on my 2 year old Tiguan. Local VW dealership confirmed that that had been a few complaints about what they called 'pinking' and that Tiguan's needed to be re-done with revised engine mapping to get around the problem, just had this done, and does seemed to have worked. Begs the question though that if VW knew there was a problem with the original fix for Tiguan's, and so produced a new mapping then why did they not recall them again. I'm really not impressed as I was also getting increased fuel consumption (too early to say if 2nd fix has solved this), my car has depreciated more in 1 year than 2 years for my last Tiguan, and yet VW position is that no compensation should be paid to UK owners as we haven't experienced any loss..............!

4motion    on 17 November 2016

Has anyone suffered a loss of mpg following the emissions software update?

jeff normanton    on 24 November 2016

I had my Tiguan 2012 model 2.0TDI 'fixed' yesterday. This morning after 17 miles the 'Catalytic converter' warning light came on. After taking it back to JCT 600 they diagnosed a EPG valve problem, solution replacement £1600. After seeing the service manager this was reduced to £900 as VW have agreed to provide the parts free of charge as a goodwill gesture.
I cant believe that after 63000 miles mostly trouble free motoring that the failure is not connected to the 'fix'

Can they be linked or is it just a coincidence as the garage are telling me.

Jeremy Bates    on 26 November 2016

So not just Tiguan's. i have a Passat which had the recall done back in August, instantly collecting the car i noticed the clattering noise and loss of power, over a month i noticed lower MPG and also increased DPF regenerations... the car has been back in now 4 times for them to run diagnostics. but all that happens is they have the car a day and re run the recall software.

Quantum performance remapping have told me today that the do not modify the original mapping. they flash the ecu with a complete new map. i am considering this option to put the car right. but thought give VW customer services another go. tonight emailing them i get a return message error 550 mailbox unavailable.

DAVE CARTER    on 28 November 2016

Just had software fix to 2 ltr yeti. 6 days later engine management light on. Took to independent who track races and refused to do anything until I took it up with Skoda.

HonestRobert    on 30 November 2016

Exact same happened to me. Engine has been perfectly reliable since new. Regularly serviced at all the correct levels & intervals. Goes into same VW dealership for 'fix', less than a week later engine warning light on. Never had this before..coincidence..I would personally think not, but I'm pretty certain thats not how VW are going to view it.

Phone them up on Mon, apparently I shouldn't drive the car, but I (yes me!) need to arrange for rcovery of the car to be transported to VW garage for them to take a look!

Somebody was supposed to get back to me, two days later still nothing.

Will keep you updated once I hear more.

I have read on another thread about the 'fix' coinciding with an EPG valve fail not long after, so if I get a similar verdict I will become hugely suspicious of another coincidence. But will give VW the benefit of the doubt...for now at least.

Neil Weatherspoon    on 3 December 2016

We bought our Tiguan 2.0 Tdi 4 motion DSG in February, after 7k miles and the emissions fix it started rattling, squealed twice and died. So that's a 4 year old car with 39k miles on it that had been beautifully smooth sitting with a seized engine...
After the "fix" it was a bit lumpy, hunted gears more and changed down 3 gears when coasting downhill at 50mph in 7th. The latter being so bad I had to change back up manually to stop the car revving its bum off.
No error codes have come up but it's so,I'd. Waiting to hear what the local main dealers tech guys come up with.

Norman Fletcher    on 8 December 2016

Neil if my experience with the dealers is any help. they dont get back to you. i have been taking my Passat back for the same problems (rattling, lower power and increased DPF regenerations) since june and they say we will send the test results to VW technical, and "get back to you" the car has been in SIX times now and no one has ever got back to me. i keep emailing the service manager and VW customer service. the dealers will reply but from what i can see they have their hands tied by head office. customer service take on average 5 weeks to reply and mostly just want you to go to a dealer and have tests done.

i think a group action is needed to get VW to do something about this, i have been reading other pages and a few owners have had the ECU software reverted back to factory settings and this has solved the problems, but that was back in july / august. not seen any reports of it happening since. if enough owners email customer service weekly and the same to a dealer then maybe an investigation may get initiated.

i have also emailed the VCA and the german typ approval agency but not yet had a reply, as they are supposed to have tested the software. i will post back again when they have replied.

Roger Thompson    on 29 January 2017

I bought my 2012 VW Tiguan SE TDI Bluetech 4Motion in April 2016 and enjoyed 6 months of great motoring. I took it for its 23R7 EA 189 emissions software upgrade on 26/10/16. On 30/12/16 it failed to start and the AA diagnostic brought up P0403 EGR valve fault. A local mechanic attempted to flush out the problem so I wouldn't have to pay up to £1000 to get the valve replaced, but the problem re-occurred today (29/1/17). Looking at all the other posts about Tiguans and the emissions software upgrade, I'm wondering if mine is another instance of the same problem. The AA guy noted there were only 36000 miles on the clock, and thought it strange that the EGR valve should be clogged up already.

Roger Thompson    on 29 January 2017

I bought my 2012 VW Tiguan SE TDI Bluetech 4Motion in April 2016 and enjoyed 6 months of great motoring. I took it for its 23R7 EA 189 emissions software upgrade on 26/10/16. On 30/12/16 it failed to start and the AA diagnostic brought up P0403 EGR valve fault. A local mechanic attempted to flush out the problem so I wouldn't have to pay up to £1000 to get the valve replaced, but the problem re-occurred today (29/1/17). Looking at all the other posts about Tiguans and the emissions software upgrade, I'm wondering if mine is another instance of the same problem. The AA guy noted there were only 36000 miles on the clock, and thought it strange that the EGR valve should be clogged up already.

Jeff McCann    on 1 February 2017

I agree at 36000 your egr should not be needing either cleaning or replacing. we have a Passat with the 2.0tdi engine, had the "fix" done back in July last year and the car has not been the same since.

the EGR blocks up more after the recall because... the engine produces more CO2 after the recall. i was horrified to find out just how much... 42% more!!!. i have exhaust gas test reports to back this up.

VW dont want to admit any of this and keep replying with the same text. the software is working how it was designed to. and has been tested by the german KBA and brittish VCA.

we have noticed that when the outside temperature is below 5c or over 18c the car runs as it did before the recall..

if you are emailing VW customer service dont just do it once, i email them every monday wednesday and friday mornings and i get a reply on average every 5 weeks. i know people who emailed them back in October and are still waiting reply. keep pestering them!! ask for your OLD software back, it can be done and has been done according to an ex-vw technician i know.

good luck all...

jenny c    on 5 February 2017

has anyone reported less mileage per gall as I was getting 42 per gal and now the gauge stops at 30 to 32 per gal also I have a noise when first starting car up and it had the emission fix about 2wks ago

Frazer Radford    on 21 March 2017

My advice as an EX VW Service manager, to any VW, Audi Seat or Skoda owner with the affected engines would be DON'T HAVE THE EMISSIONS RECALL DONE!!!.

in the 8 months before i left VW we carried out a few hundred of these recalls. after the second week we had owners complaining of poor running increased fuel consumption and more engine noise. in the beginning we were allowed to put the old software back. but after about 6 weeks we were stopped from doing this by VW technical services.

the new emissions software does not offer complete combustion, this was supposedly to lower the Nox emissions. but in doing this VW/Audi have caused a whole new list of problems. with the incomplete combustion MORE carbon is produced, therefore the EGR valve has to work harder and gets clogged up in double quick time. also another direct result of the extra carbon is a higher rate of DPF regenerations, this can be as often as every 100 miles. EGR valves will fail and VW's answer is to replace them at the owners cost, then deny any link to the new software. this is why i left them i could not abide having to lie to the customer. in the last three months that iworked for VW we replaced over 200 EGR valves as a result of the new software. this procedure is costing the owner upwards of £900.00

DPF failure is less common but it is happening, other problems include premature engine wear caused by the odd failed DPF regeneration, causing unburnt fuel to find its way into the sump and the lesser viscosity it is not lubricating the top of the engine correctly. these engins need a specific oil and any dilution is having a negative effect.

my advice is... i know this is an owner cost option but... at half the price of a EGR replacement and saving further engine problems... a remap would solve the poor running ans increased fuel consumption in one go. the 2.0tdi engine was bult to run with the 177bhp mapping that cost you £950+++ as an option when the car was new the 140bhp was just de-tuned to suit a sales pitch and a government target. Superchips offer a very good system "BLUEFIN" you get the benefit of 33 extra BHP and an extra 58nm of torque. for those with a paid for service plan... you have th option with this system of putting the original VW mapping back when the car goes in for service. then plug in and re flash the higher performance mapping. since leaving VW i have recomended this to hundreds of owners and all have had good returns from ths unit. most are finding that on a log drive the economy is slighlt better than original. i must add that i have no connection to superchips, i have just recognised an excellent product and openly promote it.

going back to the recall. you do not have to get it done... it is not a legal requirement... it is not a safety recall... dont get it done, but if you have already been "done". then all is not lost...remap.

i do think that in time Vw / Audi will be forced to offer owners their old software back. but i am not expecting that to happen in the short term.

Chris Stopford    on 27 March 2017

Unfortunately too late for me, had the 23R7 emissions software modification done as part of my MOT in January 2017. Less than 8 weeks and less than 1500 miles the VW Sharan is now back at the main dealer who carried out these modifications. Diagnosed by recover contractor as code P0403 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Control Circuit - EGR value!! The car is three years old with less that 30k miles.

Charles Harkin    on 28 March 2017

Glad I read your message Chris as I have been puting off getting my Sharan done. Is around 6 months younger than yours but will be the same car. My dilema now is do I get it done while I still have 6 months warrenty and VAG need to fix any problems, or just not get it done at all.

Im interested to know how your car ran after the fix and if you noticed any degredation in power or fuel economy. Also will VAG pay for your repair I wonder.

Honest John have a forum as part of this web site that makes communication much easyer if you feel like joining.

Frazer Radford    on 11 April 2017

Charles.

whatever you do DO NOT HAVE IT DONE!!!.. if you do you will regret it from the day you have it done.

you would be right in thinking that in the Manufacturer warranty that VAG would fund any problems caused. but... we were told at the dealership i worked for to (deny that any problems exist, any problems that arise would either be the owners fault or wear and tear). delay any work done until the end of any warranty period so all work would be chargeable, this is the main reason i left.

they know at head office there are HUGE issues with the new software and the Factory in Germany have had multiple complaints from owners regarding the emissions software. before i left VW in February i had a conversation with one of the technicians at the Wolfsburg plant. he confirmed that the software is a timebomb, and it is not (IF) but (WHEN) you will have mechanical problems, he also confirmed the policy of charging for as much work as possible relating to the "FIX" to cover the compensation cases in the USA. he told me that the EGR valve is the most common failure a half hour job to change and cost is minimal to VAG, but the charge to customer is around £900 head office also relaesed an email to service managers to start charging customers for "investigation work" minimum charge an hours labour. the franchise managers were told to book an hour and a quarters time making the billing for 2 hours labour.

a problem i am getting reported to me recently is people who are not happy with the car, going to a different brand dealer looking to change the car. trade in values have dropped. as an example yesterday a client of mine took his 2012 Passat to a Mercedes dealer to trade against an E-class. they said there are 2 trade in deals. the first was Glasses guide price for poor condition. but he had to have the old engine mapping put back...

the second valuation was £1800 lower than Glasses guide for poor condition for the Merc dealer to take the car as-is. so they are allowing £1800 to have work done to sort out VW's mess. this is not the only instance i have heard of. in my last week at VW we had a concerned customer come in with the same comments. the Dealer manager told him that he would offer the full Glasses valuation against a similar new car. the customer declined the offer and is now pushing VW to have his old software re-instated, i think he will have a long wait. unless a lot of owners get on the band-wagon and keep pestering VW Customer service by email daily or by postal complaint

Charles Harkin    on 17 April 2017

Thanks Frazer I take note and have no intention to get the fix. I had hoped that because my car uses AdBlue ( 2014 Sharan ) that the fix would not have such a drastic effect on it. By increasing the the use of the fluid I hoped the NOx could be reduced without increasing soot and reducing torque. I have learned that they increase the fuel pressure significantly and fit fuel injector dampers.
I will be keeping my car for around another year and will watch the situation over the coming months, if it turned out that there were a pile of Sharan owners who said the fix had not degraded their car and had no problems then I may reconsider, but that seems very unlikely.

John Duckworth    on 15 October 2017

My wife's Skoda Yeti had the fix update in January 2017. In the nine months since then the car has spent a total of over 2 months over 5 visits to the dealer and has had 2 EGR valves and various other associated parts replaced. After the second EGR valve the car managed 3 days and 100 miles before going back into limp mode with 2 warning lights on. It is currently back with the dealer with what I suspect will be another EGR fault. Incidentally since the fix fuel consumption has increased. Average dropped by 6-8 mpg.
I rang Skoda customer services months ago - no help whatsoever - so in July I wrote to Skoda UK CEO and am STILL awaiting correspondence in reply.
In my view VW Group were fraudulent in fitting the cheat device in the first place, they lied to and cheated their customers, they defrauded the government and therefore the taxpayer out of vehicle excise revenue, and they have massively contributed to the pollution in the air that we all breath.
And guess what, the UK government have done NOTHING.
And of course the (Germany ruled) EU have also done nothing.
A truly disgraceful affair.
Over the years my wife and I have owned 5 VW Group vehicles but will NEVER EVER buy another.

Add a comment

 

Ask Honest John

Value my car

Amount to borrow
Sorry. The minimum loan amount is £1000
To pay back over

My credit score

Best available rate 9.20%

Total repayment £9,304.93

Total cost of credit £1,804.93

£155.08

60 monthly payments

Apply now

Representative example

The Representative APR is 13.2% (fixed) so if you borrow £7,500 over 4 years at a rate of 13.2% p.a (fixed) you will repay £199.21 per month and repay £9562.20 in total.