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8 Reports of Volkswagen Tiguans Losing Power After EA189 Emissions Fix

Published 03 September 2016

We have now received eight reports of Volkswagen Tiguan TDIs losing power and rattling between 1,500 - 2,250rpm After the EA189 emissions software remap.

The remapping programme for Tiguans seems to have started in early July. We are not aware of any widespread problem yet with EA189 engines in other vehicles after the remap. And the problem seems to be mainly with post-2010 Tiguan 2.0TDI 140 Bluemotion DSG automatics. 

It is manifested in a lack of torque between 1,500rpm and 2,250rpm leading to a "rattle" and the the transmissions changing down. We think the software remap reduces the fuelling so we have recommended owners to try their engines on higher cetane 'superdiesel' such as Shell V-Power Nitro Plus or BP Ultimate that generally gives more torque at low rpm and might help.

These are the reports as they came in:

12-7-2016: Report that VAG NOx software fix to 2014 Tiguan 2.0TDI 140 DSG has resulted in a significant clatter under load at speeds up to 40mph and engine speeds up to 1600rpm. Suggests that the software fix reduces fuelling and therefore torque at low rpm.

11-8-2016: Another report of a Tiguan TDI, this time a 2012, developing "a horrible rattle in engine when changing up between 2 and 4." VW told owner she needs to pay for a diagnostic test and if it shows that it is due to the fix then they will refund. She had the fix done by a mobile unit from VW direct. She asked the nearest VW dealer how much this diagnostic test would cost and they quoted £100 but also said they had seen several Tiguans with this problem following the fix and that there was updated software that could be applied and if she'd had the emissions fix with them they would suggest doing this first before a diagnostic test. She needs to get onto the original supplying VW dealer and tell him to sort it out FoC or she will sue.

14-8-2016: Third report of knocking from the engine of a Volkswagen Tiguan 2.0TDI after the VAG EA189 emissions software fix, this time on a 2013 Tiguan. It recently went to the VW dealer to have the software update supposed to address the emissions problem. Prior to the update the car was running perfectly well, but after the change it started to rattle very noticeably under light to moderate acceleration along with increased fuel consumption. Subsequently the dealer took it back for investigation (apparently involving info from the VW factory) which took a week. (Owner was provided with a loan car.) This resulted in a further software modification. Owner got car back a week ago. Since then it has started to exhibit the same rattling and fuel consumption symptoms. Having given it what he thinks is a reasonable amount of time and mileage, owner will report the present problem on Monday 15th and see what the dealer proposes to do. (This Tiguan owner wrote again on 3-9-3016: "The latest is that my car has been with the dealer for over a week, during which they were to test drive it and investigate further. The car was returned on Thursday last. The dealer says that they were unable to identify any problem and technically it’s OK. I can confirm that the rattle problem has not gone away, and consumption is significantly worse than prior to the recall. I now intend to speak to VW GB on Monday for their comments and have registered my interest with Slater Gordon (solicitors).)

17-8-2016: Fourth report of emissions modification to a a 31k mile 2012 VW Tiguan 2.0TDI failing and leaving the owner with "a noisy, unresponsive machine completely at odds with the driving experienced prior to modification. The car was returned to the dealer who, in concert with Volkswagen, retained the car for almost 6 weeks. It was returned last week and if anything is worse, possibly dangerous with unreliable throttle response." The dealer visited the owner's home on 16th August, acknowledged the issues but has done nothing. He cannot fix the car to a satisfactory standard and will not buy it back. Owner had the car from new and it is modified for disabled use.

27-8-2016: Fifth report of rattle from engine of WW Tiguan 2.0TDI after the EA189 Emissions Defeat fix. This was a 2014 Tiguan, performing perfectly before the one and a half hour fix, but started to rattle on the owner's drive home from the dealer. The noise gradually got worse. Owner returned it the dealer, dealer mechanic confirmed the fault and described it as "pinking". Dealer then asked owner to bring car back on 30th June 2016 and has had it ever since. VW sent a specialist from HQ who couldn't fix it. Car then transported to VAG HQ at Milton Keynes. Dealer has supplied courtesy cars but owner has not had use of his Tiguan for 2 months. VW Customer Services in Leeds told the owner his was a "unique case". So that's five "unique" cases reported to HJUK.

3-9-2016: Sixth report of problems after 'emissions fix'. 2015 VW Tiguan 'fixed' noticed that the engine sounds noisier and the idling speed seems faster. The mpg is not good anyway. 

3-9-2016: 7th failed emissions defeat software remap reported on a VW Tiguan. This is a Tiguan 2.0L 140bhp Bluemotion DSG. Emissions Software Service Action 23R7 version 9977 was installed on 5th July 2016 by Cheltenham Volkswagen. Recorded mileage was 22,789. Owner was given a certificate of completion which reiterated the statement of VW's June 2016 letter that performance, fuel economy and noise would not be affected. Owner was very unhappy with the loud knocking noise between about 1,500-1,800rpm (typically 30mph in 4th gear auto). He contacted the dealer and arranged for a road test with a technician. The technician was very concerned about the noise and didn’t want me to drive the car. Owner was loaned a courtesy car for a week. It took a week for dealer to get a decision from VW technical department on what to do next. He had in the meantime checked that the software had been correctly installed. He was told to install version 9978 on 22nd July. He did this and the car was returned to the owner with a copy of the report which stated “road tested again, all OK”. It was a very hot day when he collected the car, but when he was able to reduce the aircon fan speed he could hear the noise again. It was slightly less loud, but still within the same rpm range. He returned the car to the dealer on 11th August, having run the supermarket fuel onto reserve as advised and refuelled with Shell Regular Diesel and was again lent a courtesy car for 2 days whilst a further investigation was carried out. He was informed that version 9977 had caused complaints on some other cars and that the 9978 version was working OK on my car, the noise now being “injection noise”. He was advised to again run the fuel onto reserve and refuel with Shell, which I did. There was no reduction in noise. It appears that the 23R7 recall instruction to technicians did not include a road test. In short, after two attempts, VW has failed to reinstate the car to its previous noise level, whilst performance and economy appear to be OK. It was previously a very smooth engine, with no roughness at any rev. range. [Repeated HJ suggestion is to try running on higher cetane Shell V-power or BP Ultimate.]

3-9-2016: 8th report of post emissions defeat remap on a Tiguan: "The 2012 Tiguan has just has the emissions fix done for VW by Lookers and it seems down on power. It is holding onto lower gears in the auto box when it would have changed up and drops down a gear at 70 mph on long slight inclines. Both are new characteristics and the engine sounds more strained. We have just been to a Country Show on short grass and parked on a hill and there was a smell like hot or burning clutch which again is new. Car has done 33,500 miles and is booked for an annual service." ["Hot" smell might be the DPF actively regenerating.] 

Comments

handpull    on 4 September 2016

Had remap done on our Passat 3weeks back (140tdi Bluemotion estate 2013 )everything seems fine if anything the mpg has improved even when towing a caravan.

SLO76    on 6 September 2016

Haven't seen any sign of the motoring press intending on carrying out independent tests pre and post modifications.

We have a Polo 1.2 TDi as a second car and I'm highly reluctant to allow the recall to be carried out on it without independent evidence that I'll not be worse off as a result.

Aside from the worrying threat/bluff from the DVSA that any cars which haven't had the update will fail any future Mot as they introduce new legislation to accommodate the issue I fail to see what owners will gain from complying, especially as VW are not offering any compensation even a discount on service or another token gesture.

I'll be avoiding until it is certain that the Mot will become an issue or there is independent proof the car will not be adversely affected.

Skoda6    on 19 September 2016

I have a 2015 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI cr which had a software update. Since update its also 'rattles' like the tiguan reports. It's most noticeable around 1500 rpm on a light throttle. Car has just spent a week at dealers who carried out various tests sending data to Skoda HQ technical team. Their conclusion is that everything is OK. Engine is definitely noisier despite what skoda's tests may show. Dealer told me that my software update was 9979, after those mentioned, yet still causing noise. Very disappointed and has ruined my experience of the car. Now deciding my next course of action to escalate this for a resolution.

Simon Mo    on 20 September 2016

i have a 2013 VW Tiguan 2.0tdi 4motion DSG and it has also recieved 2 software updates
the knocking noise at low revs is still present, the engine seem strained going through the gears, engine vibration is fed back into the interior trim causing a humming noise in the trim
there is a deffinate loss of power the dsg gearbox is totally messed up cannot drive the car smooothly like before the updates
worst thing is that the dealership i bought the car from has gone into denial mode and claims the the figure shown on the diagnostics are within the parameters
so now i have contacted customer care on VW uk again and sent the car to another dealership which their master tech tookit for a a 5min test drive has confirmed all my issues
this is the 6th time in gone in for these issues
But VW technical do not share information on what the previous dealers has done to the car and everthing is in a closed loop only VW technical will decide what to inform
Now i'm still waiting after 1 week for VW technical to confirm its caused by the emmissions software so can get them to authorise Mobex for an like for like car for me to use

Anisah    on 9 December 2016

I recently had the emissions changes and the car is starting to have noticeable issues with the car giving out more revs. Also with my Tiguan being an automatic it all of a sudden loses power and does not start. I have had previous bad experience with VW, so I am dreading to see what they say to this issue!

Have the issues been resolved yet with your car?

Simon Mo    on 7 January 2017

No not all !!

i even took it to another dealership to try to resolve the problem, which was going great with the head technician agreeing to me that there was a problem.

Then after a few days they said its been put through the diagnostics and they said my car to be operating within the parameters set by VW

So therefore they are not going to investigate it any further and they also told me that VW uk were refusing to pay the dealership for any work carried out on my car.

I am so fed up with VW i cannot express my utter disgust with this company enough

i found that using Shell fuel helps a little bit rather than the supermarket stuff

Charles Harkin    on 22 September 2016

As the owner of a 64 plate 2.0L TDi DSG Sharan I find all this all a bit worrying. The Saran is never mentioned in the list of cars needing the fix but I got the dreaded VW letter saying it is. As far as I understand some Tiguans have the reduction catalyst and use the Adblue fluid and some do not, so are all the problem cars Adblue users or all not ? It will take much less tweeking of the firmware in a car with a reduction catalyst than one without. I would find it strange if they both got the same update.

If I understand the chemistry of NOx production in the engine ( I may in fact not understand it ) its due to the excess of oxygen above what is actually needed for complete combustion that causes NOx to be produced. It reduces fuel consumption and gives better torque but makes NOx in the precess. The point Im getting round to is that reducing the fueling will make this worse not better, with even more excess oxygen to react with the nitrogen. Could it be that they turn down the boost at the problem revs putting less excess oxygen in to the engine and this is causing the noise, loss of power and vibration ?

In petrol engines its the very lean burn engines that produce the most NOx. As CO2 goes down NOx goes up.

I will not be going anywhere near a VW dealer till I am confident they will not ruin my car.

   on 1 October 2016

My 11 plate golf 2.0 tdi blue motion has developed the knocking as described, not noticed the increased fuel consumption but I've been doing more round the town driving than before, so it's up anyway. Knocking more prevalent when engine cold and when higher torque required around 1500-2000 revs going up hill. In with a mate who's having a look at it now, but likely to be complaining bitterly to VW early next week!!!

Nicola Mawson    on 4 October 2016

I've had the emissions update done on my Audi A4 2.0 TDi and I wish I hadn't!

It was meant to be done on the Thursday but their computers were down so I had to go back on the Saturday and as its a 50mile round trip, the garage put in £20 of fuel because of the repeat journey , so I was quite happy with that and drove home.

Didn't use the car for a few days but the next time I did, the judder from the engine when it was cold was appalling from first gear and up through all the gears, a constant judder which you have to really press the accelorator and it then goes but change gear and the judder is back until you accelerate again. Once the engine is warm this juddering stops.

The dealer has had my car for three weeks now and have done numerous tests but I have been told today that Audi UK technical have said there is absolutely no way the update could have caused this problem as the update only removes a piece of software! Apparently it is pure coincidence that my car now drives like an old tank when the engine is cold!

I now have to pay Audi for them to investigate what is wrong with the car; technician has mentioned injector, compressions in the cylinder head has also been mentioned but I absolutely disagree that this is pure coincidence.

I don't see why I should be paying for an investigation into a problem that WAS CLEARLY CAUSED BY THE UPDATE!!!

The car went in perfect, it had the update and the £20 of fuel and now it's not perfect; the only coincide is the bit in the middle!

So, if you haven't had the emissions update, I wouldn't bother!

Arthur Leewis    on 4 October 2016

My 2012 Passat Estate 2.0 TDI Bluemotion has had the update a week ago, and I am NOT happy!! Before the update the listed 170 Bhp was clearly there, and the car would accellerate smoothly. I now have after the update, a sluggish, underpowered donkey, that VW apparently does no longer care about. The dealership does not appear to have the correct expertise to resolve these problems, and indeed, after the update the car sometimes cuts out when going down a hill with the throttle slightly open. This, in my view, is a dangerous issue. Also the horsepower that has disappeared needs to be returned, I bought a car with a certain specification, and if that spec is changed for the worse, some compensation must be due......

Tim1970    on 19 December 2016

My 2012 Passat Estate 2.0 TDI Bluemotion has had the update a week ago, and I am NOT happy!! Before the update the listed 170 Bhp was clearly there, and the car would accellerate smoothly. I now have after the update, a sluggish, underpowered donkey, that VW apparently does no longer care about. The dealership does not appear to have the correct expertise to resolve these problems, and indeed, after the update the car sometimes cuts out when going down a hill with the throttle slightly open. This, in my view, is a dangerous issue. Also the horsepower that has disappeared needs to be returned, I bought a car with a certain specification, and if that spec is changed for the worse, some compensation must be due......

Arthur

we have exactly the same problem

My VW dealer at Norwich refuses to accept since the upgrade its not there fault

They have refused to take the car back and reprogramme with the software before the upgrade saying VW will not allow !

Anybody with the same issues on the passat 2014 please contact me

Matt 000    on 31 January 2017

HI I've got the same problem my number is 01473780786 please contact me for a chat regards Matt

Sue messenger    on 6 October 2016

I got my 2010 VW golf 2.0 tdi done on the 20th August and it came out with the engine rattle and the mpg is way lower than it was. It went back into the dealership who done the update and they had it for nearly a week. They rang to say the car is ok to pick up. Over a month later and my car still has the same problems. The dealership have said they can't do any more and having been in contact with VW customer services they have also said there is nothing more they can do so overall I have been fobbed off by them both. I've been in touch with Motorcodes to file a complaint so let's see what they do.

ukoracle    on 12 October 2016

Following the emissions 'fix', I had same 'clatter' issue and reduced power at low revs on my 2 year old Tiguan. Local VW dealership confirmed that that had been a few complaints about what they called 'pinking' and that Tiguan's needed to be re-done with revised engine mapping to get around the problem, just had this done, and does seemed to have worked. Begs the question though that if VW knew there was a problem with the original fix for Tiguan's, and so produced a new mapping then why did they not recall them again. I'm really not impressed as I was also getting increased fuel consumption (too early to say if 2nd fix has solved this), my car has depreciated more in 1 year than 2 years for my last Tiguan, and yet VW position is that no compensation should be paid to UK owners as we haven't experienced any loss..............!

Douglas Hilton    on 21 October 2016

Douglas Hilton 21st October

I have a Skoda Superb 2.0 litre TDi which used to be a 170 bhp version .
Foolishly I let Looker's Eccles do the recall and god knows what it is now , marginally faster than a milk float !
All the torque in third has gone the car is dreadful to drive and the economy is drastically down by around 7 to 8 mpg . The car still has 46 K miles to run until the end of the lease so that's about an extra £900 of diesel.

VAG are maintaining that nobody has complained about this issue . I have however just found out that there is a Skoda emissions complaints team at Milton Keynes so that seems to indicate that there is no change in their policy of lying to everyone both Governments and the poor sods that drive their remapped cars !

If you haven't had the recall / remap done do not under any circumstances agree to let them do it it will kill your car !!!

Geoff Hampson    on 25 October 2016

I also took my Tiguan in for the recall in July. Noisy like a worn out taxi at low revs when pulling also some loss in fuel consumption. Real shame as before the upgrade it was faultless.
I have now taken it back to my VW Dealer. Now Firstly they said they were aware of a problem and had a software fix. Day two and they are changing injector under VW instruction but the need a day three to continue. They haven't got a curtesy car available till Thursday so who knows whats going on.

   on 27 October 2016

I am about to book my Tiguan for the fix but god i am not happy at all. Is there any group where those issues are discussed? Even the lawyer companies who started to approach VW owners for a group to sue VW are doing nothing.

Rich kilborn    on 28 October 2016

Took tiguan 2tdi bluemotion in for emissions fix now has pinking rattle noise when accelerating under 2000 rpm and seeing a drop in mpg by 10.would be interested to see if anyone is happy with vw fix.Just waiting to here back from dealership

   on 28 October 2016

Thanks my Audi 2.0 TDI was due in next week but i've canceled the software update for now think i'll change it next year but it will not be German or french hope you all get your cars sorted.

Phil fennessy    on 1 November 2016

Same issue with a Golf shudder and splutter at low revs when cold almost like a fuel contamination when the engine runs at higher revs or is warm then the engine runs better. one instance of the engine running on after the ingnition was turned off

   on 2 November 2016

Gt tdi golf mk 6 2010 same as above had it done 2 weeks ago and now does not run well at all

   on 4 November 2016

I took my 12 plate polo in for the software update , and it came back totally gutless , labouring in every gear . Not happy !!!

   on 5 November 2016

Just had the emission fix done on my 2.0 TDI SE Bluemotion DSG (Auto) VW Touran 2014...I am experiencing similar if not the same problems as experienced by the Tiguans in this article.
Rattling at low revs and loss of power - not happy about having to use more expensive Diesel.
VW seemed to have "cured" one problem and created another!
VW dealer seemed quite excited at giving me a mug, a pen, a VW badge and sweets in an expensive box. I pointed out that it wasn't the same as a £10,000 refund as our neighbours across the pond got.
He pointed out that VW had done nothing wrong here in the UK
WRONG answer... how about upsetting numerous VW customers?
Won't be buying another.

Richard Chandler    on 5 November 2016

Tiguan TDI 140bhp DSG auto, 2011.
Just had software upgrade for emissions done' and the engine seems smoother and up on power, looking at past posts I must be very lucky,or has the software changed??

KayJay    on 5 November 2016

My Audi A4 170 went in for its first mot in sept. I explicitly told them not to change the software, when I collected it they told me "we have upgraded the software but it has no effect, it only effects it when it is in cycle beating mode". I tried to explain the illogical statement but they did not understand, I decided to give it some miles and see. I always leave the trip calculator and never reset it, it indicated 52mpg over the previous few thousand miles. I reset it to see the new mileage. I have since done about 1500 miles and can never do better that 50mpg and the average is down to 46, so I have lost 10pc.

Power also appears to be down. Power is subjective but the chassis used to torque steer on full gas in 1st and 2nd, now it never tugs and struggles to keep up on fast junctions.

I visited my dealer today but they say the cannot do anything and the changes have no effect on the car (no effect, why are they needed?). My main complaint is they changed the software when I explicitly told them not to. They insist they cannot set it back. It's wrong that they can tamper with my car against my permission.

I have little hope of Audi doing anything. They appear arrogant and do not care, I have never been sent a letter of apology for their miss-selling or need to change the software for cheating in my car. My only recourse is that when replace both of our main cars in 2017 they will not be VAG products.

   on 7 November 2016

Anybody had any issues with engine management and emision lights coming on post fix? Mines a 2.0 tdi a3

jeff normanton    on 26 November 2016

My Tiguan was 'fixed' and 17 miles afterwards the 'Catalytic Convertor' warning light came on. I returned the car to JCT 600, Wakefield who diagnosed that the EGR valve was sticking and needed replacing, and would cost about £1500.

After seeing the service manager and explaining that the car had done 63000 miles without issue I could not accept that it was 'just a coincidence' as he called it and 'nothing at all to do with the update'. After further discussion he agreed to 'contact the brand' and see if they would accept any or all of the cost of the work.

Later he came back to tell me that VW would provide the parts free of charge and I would only have to pay for the labour, 9 hours at £100 per hour which I think is exorbitant.

They managed to get rid of the warning light, they could have taken a bulb out for all I know, and I have been driving the car for 2 days without it returning so I am reluctant to go ahead with the repair.

I have since spoken to a solicitor who is dealing with calaims for compensation against VW and have been informed that it is quite common and not to pay more than £300 maximum.

Has anyone else had this issue.

Wilskonsk    on 30 January 2017

Yes! About 150miles after a full service on my A5 2.0tdi 170 Quattro, at which time they carried out the emissions recall, the 'Emission Control System' warning light came on.

I took it back to the service centre and they tried to charge me £60 for diagnostics. I refused to pay and they gallantly agreed to waive the fee. They say that they then run the diagnostics and it showed an issue with the DPF. So they carried out a forced regen, cleared the fault and said to come back if there were any issues. Amazingly - no charge!

Well, earlier today on my way home, 12 days after the regen, the light came back on. So tomorrow I'll be taking it back. Again.

I find it strange that if it was a DPF issue, that it wasn't the DPF light that came on.

Both times the ECS light came on was whilst driving slow in traffic, in a high gear/low revs.

I have a horrible feeling this is issue is going to be a long and painful experience!

blackislemikey    on 31 January 2017

Anybody had any issues with engine management and emision lights coming on post fix? Mines a 2.0 tdi a3

Yep, me! I thought it must be the DPF so took it to get a flush but the ECU said the EGR valve was malfunctioning (blocked). Now taking it to dealer to get the ECU read by them so I can ask them if VW/Seat are willing to pay for something that should last longer than 30k miles. £700-800 for a replacement EGR after 30k miles, criminal. I have a Seat 1.2 diesel which had the reprogramme about three weeks ago.

peter elvin    on 8 November 2016

Peter E

I have just had the emissions fix on my bluemotion / 4 motion Tiguan manual gearbox SE. Bought new in sept 11 and only done 26k miles and following the fix it seems o.k on performance but it has a growling noise when putting your foot down and when lifting off on the throttle at certain revs. It seems a throatie / growling noise more like a sports model noise. They told me it would be a 2hr fix but reading on hear it says only half hour as it is only a software change. My VW dealer said drive it for a week and see what happens and then give them a call if it is still noisy. They also said they have had no other similar noise problems reported at there dealership. After all of the lengthy wait for the update it is very disappointing and all I can say I won't buy another one and my fear is I won't get a good p/x value.

Laura cap    on 10 November 2016

I have a vw 2010 gt golf witch has had the update and now rattles has a judder when cold when vw have tested it they say it doesn't do it with them ??

Laura cap    on 10 November 2016

Have to say tho vw uk are working with me and are trying to resolve this as soon as possible for me

peter elvin    on 5 January 2017

Have to say tho vw uk are working with me and are trying to resolve this as soon as possible for me

Hi Laura, have VW resolved anything ? My car has been back 3 times and they say it is O.K. but my car is still noisey. Would be inerested if thay have fixed yours. regards Peter E

4motion    on 10 November 2016

I have a 2014 vw tiguan 4 motion manual. I had the emissions update performed a few weeks ago, and noticed a dramatic consistent drop in mpg.
vw state that they have had no issues with the update, and that i would have to prove my loss of mpg, which is impossible.
I can't be the only one???

   on 13 November 2016

Seat exeo 143 deisel. Down on torque at low revs and gutless. Stalled on me going round a roundabout in 3rd as no pull . Lost power steering. Not good.

Seat refusing to provide any in gear rev/torque/ power delivery graphs before and after and I have been referred to either German or Spanish authorities as apparently uk authorities have had "nothing to do with this!

Contacted the chair of the uk transport committee 3 weeks ago ...no response. phoned 2 weeks ago ... no reply.

This reeks of another cover up. If engine performance not impacted. Why the secrecy over before and after performance?

   on 17 November 2016

Had my 2011 Tiguan 2.0l TDI R-line, DSG box upgraded last week (5th Nov) all going good, put Supermarket diesel in last night, took a run in it today with noticeable lack of power at low revs, hunting for fuel etc not good.

Phone dealer who stated they have had no problems with re-mapping but have arranged for it to go back to them for a couple of days.

Can anyone please advise on what the best way to proceed legally etc. If this issue is not resolved?

paul wilson    on 18 November 2016

my seat ibiza ecomotive was done in october by november lost power and got engine code saying EGR Sensor A Circuit Low think this is to do with fix trying to get seat to sort not having any luck anybody got any advice

   on 19 November 2016

My wife had her 2010 SEAT Ibiza FR 2ltr 140 diesel software update and since then if there's a frost when you start the engine from cold there is really loud knocking noise coming from the engine. Booked in with the dealership to look at.
Anyone else experiencing this?

Frprobs    on 4 December 2016

My wife had her 2010 SEAT Ibiza FR 2ltr 140 diesel software update and since then if there's a frost when you start the engine from cold there is really loud knocking noise coming from the engine. Booked in with the dealership to look at. Anyone else experiencing this?

Hi. I have exactly the same problem and am about to take it up with Seat. Have you got anywhere ?

Euron Jones    on 20 November 2016

I know this is a thread for the 2.0 TDI,but I am experiencing very similar issues with a 1.2 TDI 2011 VW Polo. The software was updated in October and since then it lacks power and the idle speed has increased from ~800rpm to ~1200rpm. Significant vibrations at idling can be felt throughout the whole car and steering wheel.

The car is now at my local VW dealership, who have accepted that the idle speed vibrations are a problem but have not yet identified the cause. Various diagnostic checks have shown no issues, and they have now sent a fuel sample to be checked by an independent expert. The car has been with them for over a week.

TimDavis    on 23 November 2016

I've got an early 2013 Tiguan SE TDI 4motion and a letter saying an upgrade is avilable arrived two weeks ago.

Haven't booked Anything yet. I think I will ask my VW dealer to provide a couple of references from people who have already had the upgrade. If they refuse then I will write to VW UK and copy in my MP.

Any one else got any suggestions?

Diane Melia    on 18 February 2017

I've got an early 2013 Tiguan SE TDI 4motion and a letter saying an upgrade is avilable arrived two weeks ago. Haven't booked Anything yet. I think I will ask my VW dealer to provide a couple of references from people who have already had the upgrade. If they refuse then I will write to VW UK and copy in my MP. Any one else got any suggestions

Don't have it done until software is proven. Jan 2017 software still has problems.

Gordon Roy    on 23 November 2016

Last week I traded in my 58 Plate Audi A4 2.0 TDi Multitronic for a 60 plate VW Passat 1.6 TDI Bluemotion. The Passat was juddering when changing up to 5th & 6th gear around 14-1800 rpm. Garage replaced injectors and informed me problem still exists! They contacted VW who said it requires a software update to which I said if it's the Emissions update it will require a Flow Straightener as part of the update. I also noticed the Passat was returning around 48.5 mpg vs 49.4 with the Audi.
After reading this thread I hope they don't return the Passat with a rattle and lower fuel consumption! I have informed the dealer if the vehicle is not to my satisfaction I will be rejecting it and requesting my Audi to be returned (Audi has not had the update carried out).

Rupert Bullock    on 23 November 2016

My 2 litre 140bhp Seat Exeo had the update a couple of weeks ago. I've not noticed any difference in the way it drives but the MPG is down by 5-10%. I contacted the Seat dealer which did the work and was told it was the first report received of this nature after completing over 100 updates. I asked if I could have the settings returned to what they were before and this possibility is being followed up. If I'd read the blogs on this website beforehand, I definitely wouldn't have bothered.

   on 23 November 2016

Shall we get together into a FB group and collect evidence about emission fix? Nobody does anything. Even the claim lawers went quiet.

Jeff McCann    on 24 November 2016

I had my passat 2.0tdi serviced and the recall done back in july, thinking at the time of changing the car and if it had all recalls done it may make for a better sale price. what a mistake!!!.

i have abit more information for the readers here, i have had a few months to analyse the problem further.

the car developed a rattle from the engine at low speed 1100-1500rpm this is at 30mph in 4th gear, sounds like pinking in a petrol engine. i have narrowed it down to the top end of the engine by making sound recordings with a microphone at different points on the engine.

Power is down since recall, more noticable on long uphill routes, again this is more noticable at lower engine speeds 1100-1500rpms.

DPF regenerations... this is happening a lot more than before the recall, prior to recall it would regenerate only about twice in 12 months or 16000 miles. now it is regenerating every 160-200 miles at best.

economy is down between 6-10mpg over 3800 miles since recall.

one thing i have noticed driving the car is that during one of the frequent DPF regenerations, the rattle noise disapears and normal power is resumed... thinking about the dpf a little more... it collects soot? if it needs to regenerate so often then there must be more soot build up?. CO2 and hydrocarbons create soot, so their quantity in the emissions must have increased since recall?.

i have taken the car back to 2 different dealers now 5 days off work to let them have the car and all they have done is check for error codes and then re-run the recall software. i have spoken to VW customer service and they said the software "will not affect the economy or power output, or cause increased engine noise" and get this one... they said it has no affect on the nox emissions just makes it easier to detect!!!. complete t***!!!. they ended the conversation by suggesting i took the car in for investigation work as there could be a mechanical fault.

now since the weather has cooled to below 5c here i have noticed another change. whilst the temperature is low the rattle goes away and normal power is resumed. earlier this week the temperature rose to 7c and the rattle returned. i read that the new software only changes fueling settings between 5c and 18c at lower than 5c and above 18c it is deemed to possibly cause engine wear. there have been a few reported cases of engine damage in the last few weeks costing owners near £2k to repair, caused by incorrect fuel timing.

according to 2 VW dealers they are not allowed by Head office to return the old software. i read on a few forums that some owners are having independant help and a couple have swapped ECU's in a test to see if the same problems could be replicated on a different car. some difficulties with programming immobilisers but once done the car that had NOT had the recall developed problems, and the one which had the unchanged ECU put in ran like new again. proving that the problem is in the new software.

if some sort of group action can be arranged to get the cars reverted back to factory settings then count me in. i have a lot of names of others who have the same issues.

c haase    on 5 January 2017

Vw are putting inert gas into the engine this is why your engine Pinks

Colin Beetle    on 2 February 2017

Hi Jeff, I'm another statistic you can add to the EGR failure list- see my post just now. Beetle 2.0 TDI EGR failure 5 weeks post Recall Fix applied. Car Stalled at 40MPH, putting wife & son at risk in traffic !

DeChristi    on 25 November 2016

You can add me to that list Jeff McCann, how many others are having issues? I'm surprised this hasn't been picked up by the press a bit more.

We bought a 2013 2.0tdi (140) Tiguan DSG 4M BM etc last year and it drove beautifully. It was so quiet I kept forgetting it was a diesel. Since the 1st update in July it sounds like a tractor and the engine strains to go up hills. Used to get 45-50mpg on long trips, now we're lucky if we can get 40. About 30 around town.

Took it in the Bristol VW dealer who ran the usual diagnostics and couldn't find anything to report, so apparently they can't contact VW direct if they don't find a specific issue. They let me go without paying for the diagnostics, so I reckon they don't want to get involved until VW finds a fix. They also told me they think people are noticing pre-existing issues since the update and told by VW not to admit faults caused by the software update. Can't be a coincidence though, so many cars having the same problems.

Have logged a call with VW directly, but getting minimal response.

There are a few forums with posts from people with similar issues (like: www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/177267-...5), but no admission from VW that there is a problem with some cars, except in Auto Express in August. Here's a copy of the relevant page:

drive.google.com/open?id=0By1Xj5dk9Nm5RzczVDRRbENm...U

Shown this to the VW dealer but they don't know anything about a "revised software update". Have also emailed it to VW direct, but still no response.

Interesting what you say about the temperature affecting the settings. Will check the car next time it drops under 5C again.

In the meantime, will start a complaint through Resolver and see how far that gets.

Hope the engine doesn't blow up before this gets sorted. If that's already happened with a few cars, then the owners need to speak up. All I have read about them so far is hearsay.





Jeff McCann    on 16 December 2016

DeChristi.

sorry for late reply been busy at work. how are things going with resolver?. not had chance to contact them yet.

i know of 6 cars that have had engine failure, over 20 more with EGR valve failure. as to how many are suffering the same issues after the recall i have a list of names gathered from various forums at the last count 1290 names and growing by the week.

getting an email response from VW is like finding hens teeth. it took 6 weeks for my first response, they just wanted my address and daytime phone number. gave them this and another 5 weeks went by, now they are saying i am not showing as owner of the car on their system. which i am assuming that is just a delay tactic hoping i will go away.

i have read the VW Audi forum pages and collected names from all posters there. just wondering if one of the no win no fee solicitors would get anything done for us. maybe worth a try?.

Suki kaur    on 30 December 2016

Hi Jeff

My problem is that i am awaiting my so called fix, but after my car going into limp mode and engine management light coming up it is in the garage, awaiting diagnostics ?? EFR valve may need replacing.

My question is that although it is still awaiting update have you had any reports of customers awaiting software update and as a result this happening, could the two be related?? Please also add me to your list as at the present time when i have put these questions to vw it is all cloak and dagger. It is already day 3 without a car!!!

Jeff McCann    on 2 January 2017

Hi.

not heard of any EGR failures prior to the recall. apart from one old lady ignoring the prompts from the car to drive it harder to complete the DPF regeneration. i would contact the garage and insist they dont do the recall. the week before christmas i removed the EGR from a friends golf and it was so clogged i was surprised the car was running at all also the intercooler and pipes were full of thick black oil luckily a good clean and all was good again. this car had the recall done in october where a intercooler hose was replaced and at that time there was no build up in the pipes or intercooler.

i have added you to my list. VW have had to set on more staff to deal with the problem of complaints after the recall so lets hope that will prove a point to them and we get some support, still waiting for a email reply to one sent to customer service in November. will be on to them again next week.

hope all goes well for you

Jeff

Suki kaur    on 30 December 2016

Hi Jeff

My problem is that i am awaiting my so called fix, but after my car going into limp mode and engine management light coming up it is in the garage, awaiting diagnostics ?? EFR valve may need replacing.

My question is that although it is still awaiting update have you had any reports of customers awaiting software update and as a result this happening, could the two be related?? Please also add me to your list as at the present time when i have put these questions to vw it is all cloak and dagger. It is already day 3 without a car!!!

Bill Prior    on 6 March 2017

Hi Jeff McCann,

I have a Passat that has been affected by the emissions scandal. I haven't taken mine in since the recall. I've been in communication with VW, who offered me a number of assurances, one of which was:

"I would like to assure you that the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (the KBA) is performing independent and rigorous tests of the implementation of the technical measures in the affected vehicles, to ensure that the measures have no adverse impact on the performance of those vehicles. The KBA, which is the relevant independent type approval authority for your vehicle, has provided its final written clearance for the implementation of the software update for your vehicle model and has confirmed that the update has no adverse impact on CO2 emissions, MPG, engine performance and maximum torque, and noise emissions."

A bit of googling has made it abundantly clear that many people have had problems. I was particularly interested in your message as you have a Passat and have collected the names of others who have experienced similar problems.

Could you please let me have a copy of your list of people who have had problems with their Passats after recall? I don't know how to PM on this forum, so my email is bill DOT prior AT hotmail DOT co DOT uk

Thanking you in advance,

Bill Prior

David Lyth    on 26 November 2016

I have a Tiguan 2.0 Diesel Bluemotion and had the software update.
Throttle response has worsened to the point that their appears to be quite a power losee. At light throttle around 2000 rpm the car hesitates giving the impression something is wrong. It also seems noisier.
Prior to this the car went beautifully, I was impressed with what a modern diesel could do. It cost me 25k new.
I will now sell it and no more VW for me. They are lying b******s who have walked away from their customers.

ChrisLawes    on 27 November 2016

Vw tiguan 2011 2.0tdi DSG went for upgrade last month wife reports it idles too fast pulling at lights and noisy she also said it was worse on fuel than before. I took it for long drive this weekend (not that i didn't beleive her) and totally agree wildl be talking to garage on Tuesday simply not good enough Volkswagen.

Angela Nixon    on 29 November 2016

Hi all.
Golf owner here and i have been one of the unfortunate ones. my car had the recall done back in July and i have been battling with VW ever since to get the old software put back. but 3 weeks ago in the outside lane of the motorway a sudden heavy metalic clunk total loss of power. i did manage to roll onto the hard shoulder. as it was late evening i got the car taken home.

my husband said NO MORE VW... he found a recomended VW/Audi specialist and we had the car taken there. he stripped the engine and found that the new software had caused fuel starvation and caused wear. the entire top of the engine "Cylendar head" had to be rebuilt and a new cam belt. all work done in 3 days. but the ecu software was put back to Factory settings. now the car runs great just like it did from new. but the cost of the repair was £1890. now i need to try claiming that back from VW. my solicitor says i have a good case and sees no reason why we should not get paid out for the repair and some sort of compensation.

Douglas Hutchison    on 25 February 2017

Hi Angela, your original message stated you were going to seek compensation for costs incurred. what was the outcome? I have the exact same problem with my passat and i know the dealership are going to deny everything when I go back to them. thanks, Dougie

Chris Gillie    on 29 November 2016

I have drawn vw attention to these issues and this thread as an example . Before having it done I asked for an explanation and what assurances I could get that it wouldn't happen to me.

Despite weeks of chasing and writing to director Alison Jones I'm just getting stonewalled.

It is quite obvious there is a problem with the fix which he are trying to brush under the carpet. I suspect they don't know why this happens to some cars (some owners claim their cars are fine) but not others.

There is already a group on this I'll see if I can share.

Next stop my mp suggest you all do the same, there's a select comittee looking at this
If its not escalated they will brush it off as a few individual cases while convincing the govt the problem is solved

Ady McConnell    on 29 November 2016

VW Blue Motion 1.2 bough brand new in April 2014.
Absolutely no problems wit it at all, has only done 5000 miles in two and a half years.
Went in for software upgrade on 27th October.
Next day, pulled (or attempted to pull) out of a junction on a roundabout.
No power at all and nearly taken out by a lorry.
Car felt like it was trying to start in second gear.
Result?
Car went back to dealership on 2nd November and it is still there.
Dealership are waiting for VW to pick up and look at vehicle.
Courtesy car from VW?
Not a chance.
Having to sort out a hire car from Europa Car.
Although VW are paying the rental Europa Car are phoning on a weekly basis to swap the vehicles they are lending to me.
Had enough and have now rejected the vehicle as have lost complete and total confidence in the product.
Something needs to be done as I thought I was just unlucky with my vehicle - did not realise so many issues had been caused to other cars with the upgrade.

Edgar Polo    on 13 January 2017

My 1.2TDI Bluemotion Polo is showing very similar symptoms after the recall, having had none since purchase. Supposedly has had another update to fix but have lost confidence in the car. Wondered if you had managed to get anywhere with VW with regard to a solution, and if they accepted your rejection of the car?

Douglas Hutchison    on 25 February 2017

Hi Ady

Any update? I have exactly the same issueafter software update this week. Power has died and warning light perm on. I want to go into the dealership armed with facts and a firm line to take to ensure i dont get fobbed off. really worried I am going to pick up significant additional costs now and not get anything back from them in terms of compensation. cheers Dougie

   on 30 November 2016

I have a Tiguan 2012 TDi DSG Bluemotion. It has just had a major service and 'updated' software after recalls. It is now rattling as if there is a hole in the exhaust. The econony has dropped by 50miles per tank, the accelerator is uncertain at low speeds, gears appear to hanging on. I am a professional driver and know this is not the car I initially bought. I will contact VW tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

TimDavis    on 30 November 2016

BBC Watchdog Program?

I haven't had my 2013 Tiguan 2.0TDI 4Motion SE updated yet (received the letter about 2 weeks ago and having followed this forum and being refused any references from other upgrade customers from my local dealer, a refusal to let me test drive a post fix Tiguan, and no guarantee either, then I will be REFUSING the upgrade as well. I do think I am one of the LUCKY ones.

My Tiguan is out of warranty now so ... it'll never be visiting any VW dealer ever again (I hope). I have a mechanic that I can trust as opposed to the VW brand that has already admitted cheating once and I'm not sure what they are playing at now!

Why don't you all send your stories to BBC's Watchdog program? If enough people do this they must surely cover the problem. They did for the Zafira and there weren't 2.1 millions affected cars for that.

Just a thought.

laurence senior    on 2 December 2016

laurence senior

2010 2.0tdi 4motion tiguan .

my tiguan went in for the emission fix to jct 600 wickersley on the 14th november,
after using the car for nearly three weeks i can now honestly say the engine has lost torque will not pick up speed in 5th and 6th gear from lower speeds as it used to before,the engine exhaust note is louder like a booming sound just as though one of the windows have been left down slightly,the fuel consumption is down by 6mpg this is not using the in car computer but tank to tank,overhaul iam really upset as this was a great car before, i contacted jct600 and explained, they are taking the car back on the 20th december to look further what they are going to achieve is anyones guess, i will keep you upto date with the situation,

jsteventon    on 3 December 2016

I have now received the second letter relating to the required upgrade to the software. I will be intersted to see what the third one states. I have no intention of getting the upgrade done and I now take my golf to an independant garage to ensure the EM software is not changed.

   on 4 December 2016

had my 2011 A3 for 2 years. lovely car never a problem.
had the emissions update at Audi in Nottingham.
2 weeks later emission and emu light came on and car in limp mode.
took car to local garage who carried out checks and said need a new EGR valve
had this done.
2 weeks later emissions and emu light on car in limp mode. took it back. they can find no problem all sensors within limits.
looking at other sites it appears other Audi owners have had the same EGR valve problem after upgrade.
seems likely I have paid for a repair that is down to the upgrade
also particle filter light keeps coming on, only had this once in 2 years prior to upgrade, despite doing several long journeys. is the upgrade causing more particle emissions from the engine?
cannot believe this is just coincidence.
will contact Audi in Notts for response.
will post the reply

paul wilson    on 4 December 2016

update on my egr seat say it is a coincedence and refuse to do anything unless i pay full price for repair they tell me they have no reported cases which they expect me to believe this from a company that lied in the first place . soon as can afford new car i am getting away from any car to do with VW customer service is a joke

DeChristi    on 5 December 2016

The emissions "fix" engages the EGR valve much more often than before, so it is not surprising that these are failing, especially after they haven't been as active for the years before the update. Our cars may have been performing much better before the update, but would also have been spewing out high levels of emissions. Reducing the emissions without affecting performance can't be resolved cheaply with a software fix, despite what VW say. They should leave the cars alone, or install a urea injection system (AdBlue) which they obviously don't want to due to cost.

I'm going to write to my MP, Watchdog, the Consumer Ombudsman, Slater Gordon (the emissions lawyers I've registered with) and suggest everyone else affected does too. I've also contacted Auto Express who published an article about a "revised update" for the Tiguans, which either doesn't work or doesn't exist, but doubt they will be able to do anything about it due to the threat of lost advertising revenue if they anger the beast.

Charles Harkin    on 5 December 2016

The emissions "fix" engages the EGR valve much more often than before, I suspect you are right about that DeChisti as it explains the raft of failures after the fix. There will be other changes as well no doubt, fueling, injection timing and boost pressure. Some manufacturers have been found to only engage the ERG for the first 20 minutes of driving then its turned off to " protect the engine ".

Not sure the urea pump is the whole solution though. My late 64 Shaean has the Adbue system but is still listed to have the software upgrade or more acuratly software downgrade so I dont know what to expect, but it will not be happening till I do know what to expect.

Where I live and drive is in rural areas where NOx is not a great problem, t does not build up in the atmosphere like CO2 as its life is measured in a few days. in cities though it builds up around high buildings and causes the health problem. VW are far from the worst at producing NOx, its the way they cheated thats the problem, other makes cheat but cheat with in the rules and produce as much if not more NOx the VW.

BigAndyG    on 5 December 2016

I had good look around on the web after my second (ignored) reminder and found someone who had actually had his car dynoed before and after the update. I too do not know why none of the motoring press or Watchdog or... haven't done this. Anyway the results are quite damning and back up a lot of what has been said here about ~1500-2500 rpm and loss of power and torque. I have graphed these plots (as best I can) and that's exactly what they seem to show. I sent them to Audi and they wouldn't engage on showing me their test data but just trotted out the old "maximum torque is not affected" line - which is true but very misleading for driveability etc.They also mention an increased EGR rate! I've put the graphs at this link:

1drv.ms/b/s!AvcWk_HHJ7e2lSKCPGtHBV19b90L

Here's the text of Audi's response:
------------------------
Thank you for your recent contact to Audi UK. Please accept my apologies for the delay in our response.

I note your request for further information regarding what the software update does to your vehicle, specifically, you have raised concerns regarding the potential effects of the software update on your vehicle’s power and torque.

First of all, I would like to confirm that the Volkswagen Group has developed a software update for 2.0 litre diesel engines affected by the NOx emissions issues, such as your vehicle, and that this software update is now available to be implemented in your vehicle.

In response to the concerns you raised, the software update, which will replace the existing software in the affected vehicles, takes advantage of advances in diesel combustion technology that were not available at the time the affected vehicles were manufactured, such as that which you find in newer engines (for example the current EA 288 engines). The pure labour time for this software only update should be around half an hour.

Thank you for providing the spreadsheets. It is very difficult for us to comment on these graphs without more information, for example where the data set was sourced from, who carried out the testing, the conditions such testing was carried out in, how fast the vehicle was accelerated during the tests, which gear was used and other such variable factors.

Notwithstanding the spreadsheets you have provided, I would like to assure you that the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (the KBA) is performing independent and rigorous tests of the implementation of the technical measures in the affected vehicles, to ensure that the measures have no adverse impact on the performance of those vehicles. I can also confirm that the KBA is testing the impact of the technical measures on the affected vehicles’ torque across the range and at different rotational speeds.

In this regard, the KBA has provided its final written clearance for the implementation of the software update for your vehicle model and has confirmed that the update has no impact on CO2 emissions, MPG, engine performance and maximum torque, and noise emissions.

In addition to the KBA’s tests, Volkswagen is also carrying out intensive safeguarding programmes internally in order to ensure the high quality of the approach being taken.

If you require further reassurance, we will, following the software update and on request, provide you with a Certificate of Completion which reiterates the KBA’s written clearance that the successful implementation of the measure does not adversely impact the engine performance, fuel consumption, CO2 emissions, maximum torque or noise of your vehicle, and that all values related to the type approval for your vehicle remain unchanged.

In response to your request for a more detailed explanation of the “advances in diesel combustion technology”, I can confirm that the update includes a revised fuel injection pattern, meaning that the number of injections, as well as the timing of those injections are changed. An additional fuel injection phase has been added but as it is formed from part of the fuel quantity of the main injection there is no negative effect on fuel consumption. Specifically, this additional fuel injection phase takes advantage of technology that was not available at the time the affected vehicles were manufactured.

In essence, the affected vehicle’s injection phase has been split from a single injection into multiple injections which results in an improved burning process in the engine. The software update also increases the affected vehicles’ Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) rate, which results in lower nitrogen oxides (NOx) production. Improvements in the combustion process ensure that this increase in the EGR rate (which lowers NOx levels) does not have a detrimental impact on particulate levels.

I hope this information is sufficient for your concerns and offers you reassurance that the software update will not adversely impact your vehicle.

Kind regards

Executive Office
Audi UK
-------------------------
Aye right......

c haase    on 5 January 2017

Chaase. I see that vw have mentioned the EGR valve last of all this is the bit that has caused all the problems

mhm    on 31 January 2017

I have measured soot collected by the DPF for the past 6 months. Following the upgrade, soot collected and regenerations increased 2 -4 fold. Clearly Audi's claim that particulates are not affected is not correct.

Have you had any further responses?

Martyn

mhm    on 9 February 2017

Have you got your original letter or email saying that particulates don't increase. I've checked mine before and after the fix and they go up 2 - 4 times. I'd like to show that they lied.

Also, did you get anywhere with the source of your power and torque graphs that would be really good info of we could prove the Providence. Strange, VAG don't have to prove anything

Richard Whiteside    on 5 December 2016

Our 2011 Tiguan 2.0 TDI 4WD DSG had the ERG Valve replaced with a VW OEM part by our local garage, not a VW dealer, in September 2016 after 68,000 miles having gone into "Limp Home Mode."

4 weeks later the car went to VW for the emissions update, and for about 200 miles seemed OK. Then the problems started, rough running, misfiring and the DPF regenerating 5 or 6 times in a 4 mile journey filling the cr with fumes The RAC diagnosed a "Software Fault" and emailed a report to us.

Once we showed this and a copy of the invoice for the ERG Valve to the VW dealership we were provided with a Golf 1.4TSI Auto as a courtesy car and advised the dealer we were not going to return this until the Tiguan was restored to how it had been for the previous 70,000 miles.

A week later, the Tiguan was returned to us. VW had replaced all 4 fuel injectors and further updated the emissions software. 2,000 miles further on, the car is running better than before the initial software update. However, this was not without having to convince the dealer that none of the faults were there before the update.

Anisah    on 9 December 2016

I am glad to hear that VW resolved the issues you were faced with... I'm currently having the same issues and will need to go back to the VW garage very soon! Hopefully they will be able to resolve the issues.

Richard Whiteside    on 27 January 2017

And here we are at the end of January, the DPF regenerating 3 or 4 times a week and filling the car with fumes again. Also lots of smoke coming from the exhaust under acceleration which didn't happen befor the upgrade.

The car is due back at the VW dealer on 8th February, in the meantime the car cannot be driven. I feel a "To Be Signed For" letter going to te Dealer Principal as the car was running perfectly before the update is now doing anything but.

Was it of merchantable quality and fit for purpose when we bought it? I don't know and will see if my legal expenses insurance might cover demanding VW buy it back like the company are doing in America.

As soon as it is sorted, it will be sold, probably replaced by a Mazda of some sort.

Richard Whiteside    on 28 January 2017

Update on last night, we have joined the Harcus Sinclair Class Action the Honest John link for this is

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-sca.../

Richard Whiteside    on 29 January 2017

The car would shortly need a new cam belt, 4 tyres and new front shock absorbers, so purely on monetary grounds is Mazda 3 has been ordered as a replacement with delivery due in March.

Petrol, so no turbo, DPF etc. What isn't there can't go wrong!

I will however report on the efforts of the local VW dealer to fix it.

DCE    on 9 December 2016

I have a 2.0 GT TDI 140 had the update done in September car ok for about 200 miles has gone into limp mode 4 times in the last six weeks showing fault code P0403, sometimes clears if you restart the engine, otherwise I have a code reader to clear the code.
I had no problems previously when I bought the car in June 2013 and had covered 30,000 miles.
P0403 is a erg solenoid fault.
Not sure how to proceed with the VW s******s.

Chris Gillie    on 12 December 2016

For those experiencing problems or anyone else who has concerns there is a facebook group (closed you will need to apply to join) for people with similar concerns.( there are probably others

it is called "the Diesel Customer Forum (emissions Scandal)

link ( hoping this works)

www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/

   on 12 December 2016

We have a manual gear 2012 Tiguan 2.0 TDi BlueMotion. The car went for the software upgrade (in Portugal it is mandatory) and returned with obvious lost of power at low rpm 1000-2000. It becomes quite obvious cruising on motorway in 6th gear. We took the car to VW dealer and the first mechanic that tested the car confirmed the motor lacked power at low rpm. The dealer called the car back twice more for testing and sending information to VW factory. After this process VW just informed us the car does not have any anomaly (notice they don't say the car has the same power, they just say it is normal).

This is the second VM fraud. After lies to governmental agencies, now VW lies to their customers.

   on 13 December 2016

My volkswagen golf 1.6 tdi bluemotion 59 plate went in for the emissions software update on thursday 8th december 2016 next drive I took it on it went into limp mode with loss of power saying engine fault take to workshop. So phoned vw explained the situation, took it in for diagnostics later that day I get a phone call saying the EGR Valve is clogged and needs to be replaced costing £1300. I said i will take it to my local mechanic they said they would do it for half price!? Bearing in mind I just had a full service 2 months prior and car was running smoothly never had a problem before.

   on 14 December 2016

Reading all the comments above, my Skoda Yeti 2.0 was such a pleasure to drive, since software update I have experienced all of the above issues, no longer a pleasure to drive, it's not the same car and I actually want to have the software reverted back to its original configuration. Someone out there must have the know how, willing to pay !!!

I regret allowing Skoda to take the car for its update it's ruined the driving experience! Fuel consumption up, I use the premium diesel, throttle not responsive, engine rattles a lot, pulling away is laborious and at times dangerous as the pull away not what it used to be and potentially with fatal consequences. Is this a plot by the government to make us get rid of our diesel vehicles? That's why this issue isn't being reported by the media, who knows ??

Very Disappointed Skoda Owner !!

DCE    on 14 December 2016

skoda owner.

From what I can gather , the mod done is just a software one and requires the fitting of a baffle tube in the air intake after the air filter. (Which took 2.5 hrs?) on line there is a video of this work I think it took no longer than 15 mins.
The strange thing is on my previous MOT test the emissions were to clean to read because on my mk6 golf there is a rev limiter, so after the mod nothing will change,as they can't rev the engine to get a reading perhaps an independent VW / Skoda garage could return your vehicle to the original set up?

Have you contacted Skoda?
DE

   on 17 December 2016

Tiguan bluemotion owner

Had the software changed 2000 miles ago and after putting up with reduced mpg and rattling pinking noise i decided to go back to the vw dealership who did the software update , they told me to give the car at least 1000miles for the new software to work properly, (this was not explained before), when i said i have done 2000miles they oferd to have a look in 5 week time, in the meantime the mpg as reterned to the pre software change or even better one trip recorded over 60mpg driven carefully but still got the pinking rattle noise which could be cheap fuel.

Jeff McCann    on 17 December 2016

Hi.

the rattling pinking noise is the part you need to worry about, it is wear taking place due to badly programmed fueling. as i have said in a past post here and on several other motoring forums. you say your MPG has got better recently... one question where you live has the outside temperature dropped below 5c?. if so that is why. the new software is only active between 5c and 18c. outside this range you have the old software "factory settings" this info was provided by an ex-VW service technician.

the best course of action would be to keep pestering the dealer and vw customer services for an agreement to get your old software put back. i know they will refuse as they have with me on several occasions. but if enough owners do the same then coupled with the threat of changing brands maybe something will get done.

good luck every one

jeff

Gary Wilde    on 20 December 2016

I had the update done yesturday on a 2013 Skoda Yeti 2.0l diesel. Noticed immediately that it is down on low end power, sounds noisier with a pinking sound as though the fuel mixture is a bit too lean. Will see how it goes, but if I am not happy I will be back to get them to reinstate the old software - if that's even possible? Wish I had done some research before I agreed to the update.

DCE    on 20 December 2016

Golf mk6 2.0 TDI P0403 code error.
Rang the main steelers to day over problems with limp mode,after emissions mod,they want me to take it in for a diagnostic test,wanted me to pay £96.00 for the privelige,they have agreed to do the test free of charge ,when I said I wouldn,t pay.

They have already ruled out the EGR valve before even testing it! then when I mentioned it is a common fault, that the EGR fails she agreed with me, then hinted that Volkswagen may help with the cost.

If you have a EGR delete do you have to remove the DPF due to regeneration issues?

DE

Michael Edwards    on 21 December 2016

Just had the modification done on our 100,000 mile Seat Ibiza 1.6 TDi along with a service and other work. Have to say on the drive home from the dealer first impressions weren't good. I'm sure I heard pinking (which I didn't even realise diesel engines could do). It generally felt less responsive and clearly hesitated a couple of times on the change up to second at low revs. Hoping it magically sorts itself out... MAE


Manbatius    on 22 December 2016

Well after a couple of weeks with the "fix", I have never seen the onboard computer display such a low MPG in the two years I have owned it. Early estimations are -5mpg.
Mine is the 2.0 TDi. It drives as rubbish as it always did, so no real complaints there at least!

   on 30 December 2016

Our Tiguan Bluemotion lost power at low rpm after the software update. After complaining and 2 technical analysis we were called one more time to make a new software update. This new update did not bring any difference, the engine is still pretty much dead at around 2000 rpm, which makes it need to use 5th gear a lot when driving on highway. The current status is that VW is telling us that the car parameters do not show any anomaly and they will not do anything. So basically the strategy of VW in europe is to ruin their customer engines and then give then the finger. Brilliant strategy, I am sure all of us VW customers will accept this with a smile.

   on 30 December 2016

Glad to have read all the above comments.

Have this morning received the letter to update my 2011 Skoda Yeti 170bhp reassuring me that I will have no change in performance or economy. ( hmmmmm )?

To date Having had the car from new it has given me over 3years of pleasurable faultless driving and therefore I certainly have fears of letting Skoda play with.

As the saying goes ' If it ain't broke don't fix it '.

My only question is are there any repercussions in not having the so called upgrade carried out?

Cheers Geoff


Saruman    on 30 December 2016

VW Passat 2.0tdi 170bhp (originally)
So I got my "it's your turn" letter through the post today. Some may well criticise me for this but when I bought the car I had the dpf deleted and ecu remapped so was wary about letting VW anywhere near it. Thought I'd do a bit of searching to see if anyone with similar mods had taken theirs in anyone and what the outcome was.
After reading everyones comments on here I'm not wary, I'm full on going to refuse this until they drag it there under court order.
But just out of curiosity, what do you think they would do to my dirty smogger if they got their hands on it? Insist it's returned to factory spec at my cost is my assumption, which I will pointblank refuse. All in all I think I will be steering well clear of any VW dealerships until I have better idea of what they plan on doing.

Wacko Jacko    on 8 January 2017

Hi, I'm considering having dpf removed when it requires replacement. Has the removal increased low end torque significantly? Thanks

   on 31 December 2016

Our 1.6 Golf TDI had the emissions fix. It was previously fine and now loses power with the engine cutting out when driving at 30mph. It is back in for investigations but nothing found. A the minute VW won't reinstate the existing software. Has anyone been successful with similar requests?

Jim Watt    on 31 December 2016

This morning my 2013 Skoda Yeti 170 bhp received its invite to the "Make your car worse" party, needless to say having read all the comments on here I am going to decline the invite. I am so sorry to hear all your problems, but glad that you have all taken the time to explain the effects that this mod has had upon your vehicles.
I feel that as more readers take on board your feelings on this matter they will not go ahead and have the mod done. I sincerely hope that all your issues get resolved and you you see justice from the bandits at VW Group.

Ian McPhee    on 1 January 2017

ianm

Found this site by chance and am glad i did, my 2011 140 vw passat had upgrade sept 2016. Did not notice anything issues with car initialy, but now after a couple of thousand miles have noted that average fuel consumption has dropped approx 10%. Have had car over 4 yrs so i know what the average mpg should be. Not noticed any pinking sound which is mentioned by several owners. Have also noted dpf regeneration does happen more frequently which also leaves an intermitant smell of exhaust fumes inside the car. Will contact dealer about concerns and await responce.

NattyB    on 1 January 2017

Well i wish i had read all this before i took mine in!!! Bought my vw golf mk6 tdi at the end of September of a private seller. I got my emissions letter a few weeks ago, so i had it booked in for last wednesday. I got my car back and there were no problems. I went to start it today and a few seconds after it started, it started stuttering, felt like it was going to conk out on me!! So i left it a few minutes and tried again and same as before!! Think im going to be ringing vw up tomorrow for them to fix and they can f*** off if they think im paying a penny for it!! It even says on the emissions letter you get that it there will be ' no negative impact on engine performance, maximum torque, fuel consumption, noise and CO2 emissions.'.... bs!! I would advise everyone to NOT have the test done., maybe this is the reason they lied about the emissions in the first place if this is what happens when its done.I bought this new car in hopes that unlike my old car i would not have to be constantly taking it to the garage because it has some sort of problem and up until this, it was running fantastic with no issues!!

Geoff O'Sullivan    on 2 January 2017

Well hi!!! I am a Skoda Octavia 170 DSG Jan 2010 owner and I have been thinking about the upgarde(?) After seeing this site and reading the Briskoda web site I am not at all sure about having my car fixed (made worse!) At the moment it pulls well at 1500-2000 RPM and does about 43.3mpg overall. Do I want it to Pink? Do I want worse mpg? Do I want driving issues? No so looks like I will not be having the upgrade then!!! Geoff

Paul Earley    on 3 January 2017

I have a 2014 177 bhp diesel tiguan, with DSG gearbox and with 36,00 miles on clock. I have had from new.
It went in for emission up grade on 13th December and when I received it back it felt different immediately. There was a definite power lag at about 1500 revs.
When I put my foot on throttle there was a noticeable delay followed by the gearbox changing down before power kicking in. It was jerky not smooth.
I reported it to the garage who said they would look at it and so is booked it for today. 3rd Jan 2017
I phoned VW after the upgrade to register my annoyance and ask them what they were going to do about it and got absolutely no where. They were not interested, kept repeating a prepared message and would not let me talk to anyone and kept referring me back to the garage. All I want is the car to perform as it has for the last 2 years. Its not my fault this has happened it is VWs, and the are already stone walling.What a professional way to behave

c haase    on 3 January 2017


chas haase

do not have your VW re-mapped this would turn on the EGR Valve this recirculates exhaust gas through your engine, it will destroy your engine.

gasengineer    on 4 January 2017

Wow - what a thread.

Just had the letter to take my 1.6 Caddy van in so I think I'll be holding off.

One thing that occurred to me is that when VW dealers are investigating all these problems reported - why can't they just revert to the old mapping software and test the vehicle to see if the issues go away or are pre existing as they claim.

Seems so obvious....

c haase    on 5 January 2017

Vw are encrypting the ECU so you can't put it back how it was

Gary savill    on 7 January 2017

gasengineer 3 days ago

Wow - what a thread.

Just had the letter to take my 1.6 Caddy van in so I think I'll be holding off.

One thing that occurred to me is that when VW dealers are investigating all these problems reported - why can't they just revert to the old mapping software and test the vehicle to see if the issues go away or are pre existing as they claim.

Seems so obvious....


I have also received the letter from vw asking me to come in for the update I have a vw caddy and will not be taking it in after reading all the treads in here. It seems all the vehicles on here and else where are having the same problems. At the moment there is no law in place that requires you to have the fix,but it looks like they will put a more stringent mot test in place soon so your vehicle will fail. I've just had an mot so I have 1 years grace to make decision.

   on 4 January 2017

Message to gas engineer from recently retired gas engineer.

As I understand it the current mapping of our engines/ecu's is that it recognises when is in test mode and automatically 'down powers' to give an in accurate but more preferable emissions reading.
This is why we're expected to go to the trouble of having our vehicles fiddled so that it gets Volkswagen off the hook.

Now, here's the interesting bit.
If, like the manufacturers are stating is true that our performance, economy and reliability will not be affected with the upgrade then why did they need to cheat in the first place?

Having read the impressive list of grumbles above there is no way that I'll be having my vehicle interfered with to satisfy their needs.

By doing so you risk everything but gain nothing.

Again I wonder what the outcome will be for those like me, who chose to leave well alone and stay away from the main dealers who have their own agenda....?

c haase    on 5 January 2017

This is nothing to do with emissions This Is falty components EGR valves .my Skoda Yeti has done 30.000 miles Egr valve stuck £1,000 to replace it

   on 4 January 2017

Stephen, north east England.

As the owner of a 2013 Skoda Yeti 140 I too received all the letters regarding the 'Service Action', which I ignored. Just before Christmas I received a call from my local Skoda dealer inviting me to take in my car for the emissions update. I said I did not want to bring it in as I have read too many reports of engine problems since the fix. I was then informed that I DID NOT have to bring it in to have the update done if I did not want to.I asked if there would be any problems with the car passing the MOT, they said no.

I also asked my local MOT station who said there would be no problems. Cars with these engines have been MOT tested with no problems since 2012, and will still continue to pass as the regulation have not changed.

Owners of cars who have had the fix done and are now unhappy with results and cannot get anywhere with the dealers could as a last resort take there car to a Re- mapping centre. They can re-map the ECU, not only returning the performance to how it was, but improving it and also the fuel economy. Not sure of the cost, at a guess 2-3 hundred pounds. One such place is UNIT 9 REMAPS, Horden nr Peterlee.

Hope this is of some use to all affected owners.

c haase    on 5 January 2017

C haase . vw are going to turn on your EGR valve this will put your car into limp mode as it will block up instantly do not have your car messed with it will become a deathtrap

c haase    on 5 January 2017

Chaase vw have turned off the EGR valve because there are no good and keeps sticking and I cost £1,000 to replace. all commercial vehicles has AdBlue a totally different system this works fine

c haase    on 5 January 2017

C haase. About time the BBC got involved

   on 5 January 2017

I had my Passat booked in last week however due to work commitments was unable to get to the dealers...... looks like I may have avoided a problem. I will print this thread out and see what they have to say before proceeding.....

c haase    on 5 January 2017

C haase. if your car passes the MoT which it does I see no reason to have it interfered with?

c haase    on 5 January 2017

C haase .vw will encrypt your ECU so you will not be how to put it back how it was ever again don't do it.

   on 8 January 2017

Wish we had found this site earlier.
Golf 2.0 TDI EA189 Engine
Had car from new (Oct 2011) 36900 miles to date. Full service history by VW agents.
Software update due to emissions scandal carried out in October 2016.
Just 1300 miles later on January 4th 2017 the engine fault message lights up on dash and car goes into limp mode (no advance warning). Fortunately only doing 30mph.
Driven to VW agents for 3 days where the oucome is - Excessive carbon build up within EGR valve. Replaced and refit, updated software to suit. Total Price £979-09.
As a goodwill gesture a 90% reduction against parts and labour will be applied, leaving us to pay £100.
Fought hard with all at VW agents (1.5 hours) to avoid paying anything, only to be advised the car would not be released until settled.
Assured the car would have no further problems. Watch this space !!!
Could have been a totally different story if we had been doing 70mph on the motorway when we went into limp mode.
Lost all trust in car.

c haase    on 8 January 2017

When vehicles go into limp mode they become extremely dangerous has anyone had an accident yet or is that what it is going to take before something is done ?

Sara P    on 8 January 2017

Had the software update done 1000 miles ago on my 105K 2011 reg 1.2 ecomotive seat. Now experiencing limp mode, engine fault light and emissions warning lamp.....wish i had seen this thread before

S Langlands    on 9 January 2017

Got my letter last wk take it to local vw dealer in Edinburgh. 59 reg 2.0 Passat bluemotion the car drives superb best car we've owned it since new asked a mot inspector about future mot said don't bother getting the recall done. There is to many horrific story's of vws driving like crap after recall. So the decision I've made they can stick there recall up there f***er. I will stick with my 65mpg and my non pinking 189 engine thanks very much vw.

kdhuk    on 9 January 2017

I have a Touran 1.6 TDI (2011 model) - I had the EGR valve replaced in April 2016 at a cost of £510 inc VAT (partly offset by free parts from VW) and have just received the notice to have the emissions service action done on its EA189 engine.
Reading through this thread it seems the engine adjustment makes the EGR valve more likely to fail again - at least I have a 2 year warranty on this work(?)

RyanD    on 9 January 2017

I've just had the remap on my 2015 Tiguan 177 tdi DSG. Not noticed any rattle but have noted a substantial reduction in mpg. In some instances, according to the trip computer, this can be over 10mpg difference to pre-fix. I've been driving it far more gently since the fix on an attempt to get the vehicle at least over the 40mpg level....but can't! Today on my usual commute I averaged 35mpg rather than the normal 44-47mpg.

Also noted that the kick down on the DSG box can be slow.

Booked back into VW tomorrow for further investigation.....

c haase    on 9 January 2017

Omg don't do it

c haase    on 9 January 2017

Just listened to jeremy Vine on Radio 2 some idiot from Independent VW said the fix is absolutely fine

Jan K    on 9 January 2017

I have a Audi A5 Sportsback and had the car booked in today to have an interim service and the emissions fix done. Luckily 2 weeks ago had a Slater&Gordon update email saying recent issues with the fix and so cancelled the update today. Asked the dealer anyway how would I know if the s/w fix had indeed been done ie what is the rev level code of the new s/w? He couldn't answer. Does anyone know what it is?

My experience on s/w levels when I bought the car after it being 9 mths old was dire...I asked for the 2014 Sat Nav update when I collected it only to find it was still 2013. I returned the car for the 2014 update. I picked it up after they said ' all done' and when I got home it was still rev 2013. I went mad! They apologized and finally loaded up 2014 version. Net the customer had to check twice. So conversely, how do I as a customer know if the emissions fix has NOT been done? I would like to go back to the dealer and ask them to plug in their diagnostic computer and read me what it says....but what should it say for a car without the fix / car with a fix?

DeChristi    on 10 January 2017

This website can tell you if the update has been applied AND Audi have updated their record of your car: www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/emissions/check-your-ca...l

The software update is more like a patch and doesn't change the ECU version number, so you probably won't be able to tell unless you try to re-install the patch and it tells you it has already been installed.

andrewspe    on 10 January 2017

My 2.0 tdi is down on mpg and total lack of power below 2000rpm and sounds like bag of hammers when cold,

strangely at around 3000rpm there is a nice boost, more than before.

stuck with it though, just paid £1500 for egr and cooler failure literally days before emissions update was booked in.

as has been mentioned by audi official person above, update increases egr usage etc... i don't trust the card reliability wise now reading these comments.

i would happily put my name down towards any compensation claim

BigAndyG    on 15 January 2017

Hi,

Here's what I found:

1drv.ms/b/s!AvcWk_HHJ7e2lSKCPGtHBV19b90L

VW also mentioned that the EGR valve will be used more often in their letter to me.... (See post further back)

Cheers,

Andy

MDN76    on 13 January 2017

Just discovered this thread as I had called vw ref the rattle and 'plinking' sound on acceleration in my golf 1.6 tdi post 'fix' 2 weeks ago. They were concerned that I do not drive and should call my roadside assistance to take the car to them asap. They can't see it until Monday but I'm now really concerned !

   on 15 January 2017

Just to update on my seat exeo EA189 issue with lost power and torque at low revs. I have been told by Seat that no data on "before and after" performance data is available.

However I am now seeking data from KBA in Germany. They initially sent response advising SEAT should provide data. I sent them some e-mail exchanges with SEAT where they say no data is being made available to customers. SEAT have also refused to reinstall old software settings.

Have also contacted chair of transport select committee ( afraid to say nothing coming back from her).i' ll let everyone know what the KBA say if I get anywhere.

This all stinks of another cover up. I think the motoring press are too busy counting their add revenues to care about investigating this. At least it's clear who's side they are on. I sent info to auto express ... they are not interested in corporate cover up....I haven't bought their magazine since.

BigAndyG    on 15 January 2017

Hi!

Here's what I found on the above

1drv.ms/b/s!AvcWk_HHJ7e2lSKCPGtHBV19b90L

Cheers,

Andy

Peter Brown    on 15 January 2017

The Construction and Use Act at one time had a catch-all provision that 'you cannot modify a vehicle if it then presents a danger to its owner - or other road users'.

Talk of limp modes, hesitation etc. makes you basically wonder if this "update" makes the car safer to drive ...?

John Morri    on 16 January 2017

I had my Golf fix on 5th December. On January 1st, whilst driving on the motorway, the car went into 'Limp Mode'. The VW dealer diagnosed a failed EGR Valve. It cost £1150 to fix and VW paid 90%. The car now seems to be performing as before.

Kurt H    on 18 January 2017

Anyone noticed there DPF cleaning more since the emissions update??? I have a 11 plate Passat auto 170 bhp. I've had the car two years and I've only had this problem since October not sure if it's connected but a loud fan comes on at the end of a journey 6-7 times now.

I think it's my DPF cleaning and has not completed the cycle. I've always been cautious about DPF filters as it my first diesel so I give it a good drive ( I have a heavy foot). So thought it was strange it was happening to me.

On Vw website it states that you have to leave the vehicle in S MODE and drive for 15 mins keeping revs between 2500 and 3000 which I've done and twoce and still keeps happening. On avaerage I do two motorway runs a week at off peak times so I get to drive at constant speed.

I wonder if the update has effected DPF cleaning has anyone noticed this since update??.

Charles Harkin    on 18 January 2017

Anyone noticed there DPF cleaning more since the emissions update??? I have a 11 plate Passat auto 170 bhp. I've had the car two years and I've only had this problem since October not sure if it's connected but a loud fan comes on at the end of a journey 6-7 times now. I think it's my DPF cleaning and has not completed the cycle. I've always been cautious about DPF filters as it my first diesel so I give it a good drive ( I have a heavy foot). So thought it was strange it was happening to me. On Vw website it states that you have to leave the vehicle in S MODE and drive for 15 mins keeping revs between 2500 and 3000 which I've done and twoce and still keeps happening. On avaerage I do two motorway runs a week at off peak times so I get to drive at constant speed. I wonder if the update has effected DPF cleaning has anyone noticed this since update??.

Driving hard is not the answer and higher revs are only aplicable if the warning light has come on. Its counter intuative but exhaust gas temperatures are higher at lower revs, speeds above 38mph are whats needed for normal regeneration. Hard driving uses more fuel and produces more soot so the whole system works harder. Once engine has fully heated up a steady drive of 10 to 15 mins will allow regeneration if required.

VW's advice :-

VAG DISESEL PARTICULATE FILTERS

Courtesy of David Bodily Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

Detailed below is important information outlining the function and features of the Diesel Particulate filter which all members of your team need to be aware of.

Diesel particulate filters are becoming more commonplace on diesel engines, particularly sizes 2.0L upwards. This is in order to reduce the exhaust emissions as required by European legislation.

The prime reason for a DPF is to reduce particulate matter entering the atmosphere. Particulate matter is found in the form of soot, which is produced during diesel combustion. The DPF traps most of the soot which would normally travel down the exhaust and into the atmosphere. The DPF can hold a certain amount of soot, but not a huge quantity and therefore it needs to go through a process called ‘regeneration’ in order to clear the soot loading. When the soot goes through a ‘regeneration’ process it will be converted to a much smaller amount of ash. The ash is non-removable. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active.

During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash.

Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature.

The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie. customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes.

If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase. At 50% soot loading, the ECU will continue to maintain maximum exhaust temperatures of 600°C to 650°C to cause a regeneration process. The system will try to run a regeneration process for 15 minutes. If unsuccessful, the system will repeat this process for a further 15 minutes, if still unsuccessful, the DPF light on the driver display panel will then be lit.

The owners handbook states, the DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, the driver should drive at a constant speed of at least 60 km/h for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, the driver should contact an authorised Volkswagen repairer and have the fault rectified.

At 55% soot loading the DPF light is lit on driver display panel. At this point the customer should follow the advice in the handbook. If they ignore this information and continue driving the vehicle until the soot loading reaches 75% without successful regeneration, additional warning lamps will light up. At this point the customer will also be complaining of lack of power, etc.

At 75%, regeneration is still possible with the use of the VAS tester. Only when the loading is above 95%, is it necessary to replace the DPF unit.

Operating Status System Response

45% DPF Load Level 1

Normal Regeneration

50% DPF Load Level 2

Regeneration at maximum exhaust temperatures

55% DPF Load DPF lamp

Regeneration from 60 km/h onwards

("See operating manual")

75% DPF Load DPF, SYS and MI lamp

Torque limitation, EGR deactivation,

Regeneration via VAG tester only

95% DPF Load Replace the DPF Unit

The Warranty department has confirmed that if there is no fault on the vehicle and DPF regeneration has been unsuccessful due to the customers driving style and the customers failure to comply with the instructions in the handbook, DPF replacement will not be paid for by warranty.

Common causes for complaint

• Frequent short journeys – Regeneration conditions are not met.

Not recommended for sale in the Channel Islands and inner city driving.

• Customers who continue to drive the vehicle with DPF light on – Continued

driving with the DPF light on and without successful regeneration results in

excessive soot loading of the DPF, to a point where it is above 95% loaded.

At this point regeneration is not an option and replacement of the DPF is

necessary.

• Fault 18434 particle filter bank 1 malfunction – Common fault code. This does

not only relate to the DPF itself, but the entire exhaust gas handling system. This

can be caused by defective temperature sensors, pressure sensors, additive

system components (if applicable), poor connections, wiring issues, etc.

Important Information

• Before diagnosing a problem vehicle or attempting to perform an emergency

regeneration, it is important to obtain a full diagnostic log and read out relevant

measured value blocks. These MVB’s contain important information on the

condition of the DPF system and are essential in diagnosing the fault. When the

DPF light is illuminated, it does not necessarily mean that the DPF requires

regeneration. For further advice, please contact Technical Support with the

information from the diagnostic log and MVB data.

• If a problem vehicle arrives with the DPF light, the engine management light and

the emissions light on. If during your diagnosis and reading of relevant MVB’s,

you find that the soot loading exceeds 75% (but is still below 95%), an

emergency regeneration procedure must be performed with the VAS tester.

Further to this, the customer needs to be educated. They need to understand

why the lights have appeared on the dash panel. Their attention needs to be

brought to the owners handbook instructions, so that they are aware of what the

DPF light means and what to do when it appears. This should prevent

unnecessary repeat visits for regeneration purposes.

I have also found that as the car gets older 30K+ miles, you will notice that the regeneration takes place more often.

ALWAYS, check your oil before any long journey, as DPF regeneration can use a fair bit of oil.

Some questions and answers that may help;

Question: The glow plug symbol is flashing. Why? What should be done?

Answer: The DPF regeneration has not been completed during normal

driving and now DPF has reached its maximum saturation at which it can

still be regenerated. The limit value depends on variant and Model Year,

but is in the range of 105% - 125%.Possible causes for this are:

a.) Frequent short distance journeys, i.e. high soot loading while at

the same time regeneration of the DPF does not take place because the

conditions necessary were not fulfilled.

b.) Frequent

interrupted regenerations, i.e. the engine was switched off during

regeneration. Applies to short journey drivers who have at least

fulfilled the conditions for triggering regeneration. If the glow plug

light flashes, the vehicle

a.) Engine running since start for

longer than 2 minutes.

b.) Calculated saturation higher than 80%.

c.) Coolant temperature over 70°C for at least 2 minutes.

d.) No

DPF-relevant faults stored in system.

e.) A defined vehicle speed

threshold must have been exceeded (e.g. for >80% loading, 100 km/h)

Question: Under what conditions is regeneration

interrupted/ended once it has started?

Answer: Normally when

regeneration has been successfully completed, or:

a.) After a

maximum regeneration time (20 - 25 min.).

b.) If the engine is

switched off or has stalled.

c.) If the engine is left idling for a

long time (5 - 10 min.).

d.) If 1000°C is detected by the exhaust

temperature sensor.

e.) If during regeneration, a fault is detected

on the components relevant for combustion (injection/intake system).

If

a regeneration is interrupted once started but before it has been 50%

completed, the glow plug lamp flashes on the next engine start (cold or

hot) and regeneration begins again once the operating conditions (see 3)

have been fulfilled.

Question: How long does complete

regeneration take? a.) In the most favourable case? b.) In the least

favourable case?

Answer: a.) Under constant conditions, i.e.

the exhaust temperature necessary for regeneration always lies above the

required value, for example during motorway/cross-country driving, the

average regeneration time is 10 minutes.

b.) Vehicle

conditions such as long down-hill descents, frequent driving in the

low-load range (city driving, idling) allow the exhaust temperature to

fall. If the conditions for triggering regeneration were fulfilled, the

active regeneration time can be extended up to 25 minutes (depending on

engine type). If complete regeneration is not possible within this

period, the regeneration will be interrupted.

Question:

How does regeneration affect the oil life?

Answer: On each

regeneration or attempted regeneration, a certain diesel fuel amount is

injected into the engine oil which reduces the oil life. If the "INSP"

light in the instrument cluster comes on, the engine oil is exhausted

and must be changed. Failure to do so could damage the engine.

Rich kilborn    on 22 January 2017

Yes i have noticed more regens also during a regen the car is more responsive,mpg is better as it was befor the software update, i am guessing during a regen the egr valve is cut of.

   on 20 January 2017

i have the same problem with vw passat 1.6 bluemotion 2011 model it went in for a remap at vw came with the back with the fault

Aaron Duignan    on 22 January 2017

I have an Audi A4 B8 and had the software update done on Thursday. They returned the car to me with the engine light on. I didn't even drive the car after the update. At first they couldn't figure out why the light was on. On friday they contacted me to tell me an air intake actuator would need replaced and it would cost me £600. They told me that the update is not related to the fault and that it is just a coincidence. I don't believe this and won't pay. the car is still at Audi and I will be contacting my solicitor Monday morning to see what my rights are. Audi are a disgrace and they costumer service is worse. How are they getting away with this in the UK. Anyone any suggestions or advice? It would be much appreciated

TimDavis    on 23 January 2017

It's sounds to me like you have a very very strong case here. The garage have clearly broken the engine and they should fix it.

I would immediately send a recorded 'letter of liability' from a solicitor to the garage and demand that they put the car back to it's original state. They will probably want you to make a contribution and will fix it 'without prejudice' in order to avoid any possibility of accepting liability.

Why not search and join the Facebook group 'Volkswagen dieselcustomer forum', where you'll find a lot of people with the same problem

Douglas Hutchison    on 25 February 2017

Aaron this is exactly what is happening to me with my passat. what was your outcome? have you managed to gain compensation or progress legal action? thanks Dougie

Trevor elson    on 25 January 2017

Just had our Tiguan in for its " repair", result is our once powerful easy to drive this 2.0 tdi, 170 BHP vehicle is now gutless, there's a distinct engine noise ( pinking) below 2250 rpm and frankly it is not what we bought, we loved the car before it's "fix" but now you need to drive it like a petrol engined vehicle, revving a diesel is just wrong but the only way to get any performance from it now.
I'm unsure if joining one of the class actions is the way forward or simply taking the small claims court route. Clearly the sales of goods act is relevant, we simply do not have the vehicle we were led to believe we had paid for - all to save VW's reputation.......

Edited by Trevor elson on 25/01/2017 at 19:57

Ernest G Power    on 26 January 2017

My 2012 which had the VW recommended modification in August is now a rougher engine which has reduced milage per gallon reduced from an average of 45 mpg to under 40,

VW garage suggest they will approach VW HQ to see if there is a new computer modification.

I wonder if I can get the modification to convert to the original ?

Ernest

mhm    on 27 January 2017

I've been recording soot collected by the DPF for the past 6 months. After the fix it went up 2-4 fold. No problems yet, yet, but give it time

NattyB    on 28 January 2017

Ok so i took my car - Golf 2.0 GtTdi Mk6 - in for the emissions update on the 28th December. As soon as i got it back it felt awful to drive!! The power was lacking, no torque, lagging in gears, it was a hell of a lot louder, it had a clanky rattle type noise to it, my revs were up by about 1000-1500 and i could be doing 40mph and be in 6th gear!! I also had on two occasions were I started it up and after a few seconds it felt like it was going to conk out on me, i had to turn it off, give it a few mins and start it up again, which made no difference until i gave it a few revs and it was ok!! I txt my mate who is a mechanic and he said it could be my ecg valve.. I rung the VW dealership that did the update on my car and told them all of the problems i was having, it was 2 weeks until they could book me in and i was told that i would have to pay £60 for them to look at it, at this point i kicked up a real stink, the woman that i spoke to got a bit quivery after my outburst and said I wouldn't have to pay!! I then spoke to VW uk and told them everything, they said that with it going in due to the emissions update i will not have to pay. So I dropped it off 8am 2 week later, they had it 2 days. They rung to say that nothing has come up on the diagnostics, no problem with ecg valve (there is, my mechanic showed me, im guessing they don't get their hands dirty!!) and no warning lights, so a technician was going to take it home and bring it back next day. So still nothing!!!! I then picked it up in the afternoon of day 2 and went on a test drive with a tech, he said it pulls brilliant and everything seems as it should. They said that if anything does come up again to bring it back but at the mo there is nothing they can do with it. So i drove away, 5 mins into the drive I realised that the b*****s had put the old software back on my car and obviously not told me given its illegal (i think)!! Powers up, torques back, its quiet, revs are back to normal and it slides through gears like butter!! I am 100% sure that they got in the car felt all the probs it had and realised its going to be costing them and me a hell of a lot and i would be continuously taking it back til it was sorted, and thought, b***** to that lest just put the old software back on. This is the best result i could of asked for and my advice to all is... do not deviate, threaten them with contacting VW uk and complaining ( my friend used work at VW as a mech, he said they really dont like VW uk getting in touch, it looks bad on each dealership. Everyone will get a different result depending on the dealership and i guess i looked out. Good luck to all that are trying to get their car back to how it was, i hope the outcome is as good as mine.

Matt 000    on 29 January 2017

Ok so i took my car - Golf 2.0 GtTdi Mk6 - in for the emissions update on the 28th December. As soon as i got it back it felt awful to drive!! The power was lacking, no torque, lagging in gears, it was a hell of a lot louder, it had a clanky rattle type noise to it, my revs were up by about 1000-1500 and i could be doing 40mph and be in 6th gear!! I also had on two occasions were I started it up and after a few seconds it felt like it was going to conk out on me, i had to turn it off, give it a few mins and start it up again, which made no difference until i gave it a few revs and it was ok!! I txt my mate who is a mechanic and he said it could be my ecg valve.. I rung the VW dealership that did the update on my car and told them all of the problems i was having, it was 2 weeks until they could book me in and i was told that i would have to pay £60 for them to look at it, at this point i kicked up a real stink, the woman that i spoke to got a bit quivery after my outburst and said I wouldn't have to pay!! I then spoke to VW uk and told them everything, they said that with it going in due to the emissions update i will not have to pay. So I dropped it off 8am 2 week later, they had it 2 days. They rung to say that nothing has come up on the diagnostics, no problem with ecg valve (there is, my mechanic showed me, im guessing they don't get their hands dirty!!) and no warning lights, so a technician was going to take it home and bring it back next day. So still nothing!!!! I then picked it up in the afternoon of day 2 and went on a test drive with a tech, he said it pulls brilliant and everything seems as it should. They said that if anything does come up again to bring it back but at the mo there is nothing they can do with it. So i drove away, 5 mins into the drive I realised that the b*****s had put the old software back on my car and obviously not told me given its illegal (i think)!! Powers up, torques back, its quiet, revs are back to normal and it slides through gears like butter!! I am 100% sure that they got in the car felt all the probs it had and realised its going to be costing them and me a hell of a lot and i would be continuously taking it back til it was sorted, and thought, b***** to that lest just put the old software back on. This is the best result i could of asked for and my advice to all is... do not deviate, threaten them with contacting VW uk and complaining ( my friend used work at VW as a mech, he said they really dont like VW uk getting in touch, it looks bad on each dealership. Everyone will get a different result depending on the dealership and i guess i looked out. Good luck to all that are trying to get their car back to how it was, i hope the outcome is as good as mine.


Hi I've got the same problem with my Audi could you call me nattyb on 07780030731 for a quick chat regarding the outcome of your car cheers matt

peter elvin    on 30 January 2017

Ok so i took my car - Golf 2.0 GtTdi Mk6 - in for the emissions update on the 28th December. As soon as i got it back it felt awful to drive!! The power was lacking, no torque, lagging in gears, it was a hell of a lot louder, it had a clanky rattle type noise to it, my revs were up by about 1000-1500 and i could be doing 40mph and be in 6th gear!! I also had on two occasions were I started it up and after a few seconds it felt like it was going to conk out on me, i had to turn it off, give it a few mins and start it up again, which made no difference until i gave it a few revs and it was ok!! I txt my mate who is a mechanic and he said it could be my ecg valve.. I rung the VW dealership that did the update on my car and told them all of the problems i was having, it was 2 weeks until they could book me in and i was told that i would have to pay £60 for them to look at it, at this point i kicked up a real stink, the woman that i spoke to got a bit quivery after my outburst and said I wouldn't have to pay!! I then spoke to VW uk and told them everything, they said that with it going in due to the emissions update i will not have to pay. So I dropped it off 8am 2 week later, they had it 2 days. They rung to say that nothing has come up on the diagnostics, no problem with ecg valve (there is, my mechanic showed me, im guessing they don't get their hands dirty!!) and no warning lights, so a technician was going to take it home and bring it back next day. So still nothing!!!! I then picked it up in the afternoon of day 2 and went on a test drive with a tech, he said it pulls brilliant and everything seems as it should. They said that if anything does come up again to bring it back but at the mo there is nothing they can do with it. So i drove away, 5 mins into the drive I realised that the b*****s had put the old software back on my car and obviously not told me given its illegal (i think)!! Powers up, torques back, its quiet, revs are back to normal and it slides through gears like butter!! I am 100% sure that they got in the car felt all the probs it had and realised its going to be costing them and me a hell of a lot and i would be continuously taking it back til it was sorted, and thought, b***** to that lest just put the old software back on. This is the best result i could of asked for and my advice to all is... do not deviate, threaten them with contacting VW uk and complaining ( my friend used work at VW as a mech, he said they really dont like VW uk getting in touch, it looks bad on each dealership. Everyone will get a different result depending on the dealership and i guess i looked out. Good luck to all that are trying to get their car back to how it was, i hope the outcome is as good as mine.

Your lucky I have taken mine back 3 times and they say it is illegal to put back the software. I have written to VW complaints and guess what you never get a reply. Thouroughly disgusted with VW attitude that all is well and no clatter at 1500 - 2000rpm and not noisy, like exhaust blowing - I am now getting rid of mine.

Douglas Hutchison    on 25 February 2017

Peter where are you with this issue now? Any progress? I am inthe exact same position. thanks, Dougie

c haase    on 29 January 2017

Do not take your car for the recall whatever you do do not do it you will regret it forever

c haase    on 29 January 2017

The so-called recall turns on your EGR valve this will put your car into limp mode as they are faulty components this is why they turn them off in the first place nothing to do within missions

c haase    on 29 January 2017

check out VW diesel customers forum on Facebook

Matt 000    on 29 January 2017

hello does anyone know if you take the software off and replace it with the old will it fix the problem?matt

SoulSurfer    on 29 January 2017

Hi Folks
Golf 1.6 TDI 2012 Model - was running perfectly before the update last week, now the car is hunting when at idle between 1000 and 1500 rpm, the radiator fan comes on at the end of each trip never did this before, I am very disappointed in VW UK. Don't get this update done - you will regret it!

SM, Surrey    on 21 April 2017

Hi, I bought a 2010 plate Bluemotion 1.6 in Jan and it runs well. I get about 50 MPG from it on long hot runs, which at 60 to 70 mph average I think is reasonable. But I CERTAINLY don't want to see that economy go down. Recently I received a letter from HM vehicle inspectorate with advice to have the 'fix' done at local dealer. I have not taken up their 'kind offer' and will never do so, until or unless there is clear corrective action to the software mods introduced to other owners cars, in evidence so clearly here.

The REAL question I have is this: According to the VW website the corrective action for the 1.6 EA189 engine is not the same as the 2.0 size EA189, but they only do an airflow baffle insertion as a small plastic part at the intake duct behind the air filter. (It's clear on the VW site as a video). Do you think this is what you had done to yours, or do you know that it was software? Sorry to hear of the trouble you have had, and I would be grateful to know if and when you get a correction that satisfies you. What a horrible nightmare..

Roger Thompson    on 29 January 2017

I bought my 2012 VW Tiguan SE TDI Bluetech 4Motion in April 2016 and enjoyed 6 months of great motoring. I took it for its 23R7 EA 189 emissions software upgrade on 26/10/16. On 30/12/16 it failed to start and the AA diagnostic brought up P0403 EGR valve fault. A local mechanic attempted to flush out the problem so I wouldn't have to pay up to £1000 to get the valve replaced, but the problem re-occurred today (29/1/17). Looking at all the other posts about Tiguans and the emissions software upgrade, I'm wondering if mine is another instance of the same problem. The AA guy noted there were only 36000 miles on the clock, and thought it strange that the EGR valve should be clogged up already.

Luis Alves    on 31 January 2017

I have a SEAT Ibiza 1.6 TDI (105 hp, year 2010) and I received the letter to go to a dealership and repair the emissions's problem. It's not optional. Here, in Portugal, I have 18 months to go. If I don't, the car won't pass the test to circulate legally. I don't want an engine with more rattle sound, poorer fuel consumption or other problems. What can I do? Help, please.

SM, Surrey    on 21 April 2017

Wait the 18 months in full? I would be suprised if they can make you install this change. You should demand to see evidence claimed (on my letter that received) that "independent testing has established that there will be no reduction of performance of your engine.. or words similar. You may have had the same type of letter. We should demand that our goverments force them to produce this evidence of no damage or least no change to the quality of performance of a car. This is required, in order for them to provide proper assurance. I BET that the 'independant testers' (which they do not name) would not put their signature on any document to that effect. WE ARE NOT STUPID. IF they actually ever did road-test this fix for more than a day I would be most surprised... They were tring to do as little as possible to comply with the rotten, badly framed EU emission testing law. (Read it sometime. The emissions test is completely ludicrous).

Clearly, damage is being done to our cars, as a result of cynical abuse and lies. Lying for company gain or to prevent loss used to be a imprisonable offence. I really dispair of integrity and honesty in business today - I previously thought VW was good. HOW on earth is it that VW can state the barefaced lie that "independent testing has established that there will be no reduction of performance of your engine.." after the fix is done. WHAT testing? Where is the documentation that demonstrates this for all VAG customers to inspect? I am a systems tester, and if I released a software system to my clients without test documentation, they would not pay my fees. In effect VAG is using us owners in the UK (and elsewhere in the EU) as lab guinea pigs to offset the massive cost they have incurred in the U.S.

WE are now subsidizing the corrective works and compensation agreed in the U.S. That is fundamentally wrong. But the EU rules on emission ARE still batty. These rules allow thousands of tons per day of BENZENE to be flushed out of cold petrol engine exhausts within our cities. Cold running PETROL engines in the cities with unleaded fuel are probably far far worse than diesel NOx I had better stop..

Coffee23    on 1 February 2017

Hi all,

Just a heads up, KEEP YOUR CARS AWAY FROM MAIN DEALERS!

I have a 2009 Passat 2.0 tdi (140) and it recently needed a service, I booked it in and took it to the garage and they never asked me if I wanted the software update and when I went to collect the car they never told me that they had done it, however the car has not been performing like it used to at all, slower, with a heavy foot I would get wheel spin going from 2nd to 3rd and from3rd to 4th the car would push you back into the seat...

Now it's like well, MEH !!!

I honestly am not happy at all and don't know what to do TBH.
The fan comes in after 50+ mile trips, every 300-400 miles the DPF clears out (think it's that as she smokes for about 5-10 mins while driving).
MPG was around 55 now I'm lucky to get 50, and louder engine sound compared to pre service.

Service was done just before Christmas but I though it was just me with the changes, but after reading on here and then checking the VIN it is saying that the engine has been updated (NOT WITH MY PERMISSION).


Fred.

mhm    on 1 February 2017

If the fab stood on after you do and t turn off the engine, it's a sign that the engine is regenerating the DPF, and you have switched switched off part way through the regeneration phase. Before the "fix" my car regenerated every 500kms. Now it's every 150 kms

Colin Beetle    on 2 February 2017

I would be very interested in a group claim !

VW Beetle 2.0 TDI (EA189)

Emissions Recall work done on 21/12/2016

Engine Management light on & off from Jan 25.

Engine Stalled in gear at 40MPH in traffic !

Missfire/stutter 1500-2250rpm

Burning smell when parked after run.

Took back to VW Dealer today - EGR Valve diagnosed, £1750 but VW will meet 90% of the cost ! but will give me 2 year warranty on the EGR !

I asked if this was as a result of the Recall work, they said 'no' as all that did was fix a NOX sensor ! yeah right. After reading others, this is no coincidence. I like the idea of a 2 year warranty on my EGR for £175, but that's not the point is it ?

Edited by Colin Beetle on 02/02/2017 at 18:56

Stuart Read    on 3 February 2017

It is interesting to read all these comments.

I have had nothing but problems since I took my 2015 Audi A5 in for the Cheat Device to be removed. Audi continually tell me that they have not had any reported problems with any other cars at all!! REALLY!!!

I was suspicious when I started getting the letters for the recall of my A5. Audi were insistent on every letter I received, that there would be no change to MPG, Power or Emissions etc. I was thinking if that was the case, why did it have the software on in the first place, why not supply a car with it already removed?

So for a month before it went in for the device to be removed, I logged the MPG on the same 12 mile journey to a from work. I also ran it up a stretch of motorway, with the speed control set at 75mph.

After the fix I did exactly the same.

The difference was this. Before the cheat device was removed, my car would average 47mpg on the journey to work. After the device was removed, it is now averaging 37mpg. On the motorway test, it would happily sit at 55mpg, since the fix it is down to 47mpg. The difference is equal to about 80 miles less per tank of fuel. There also seems a lack of power, and the engine noise is different.

I went to my dealer, and gave them this information. It was swiftly passed on to their "emissions team". I started getting phone calls from Audi UK telling me there was nothing wrong with my car. Every phone call I had, I was given a different excuse, and informed my case was closed. The excuses were as follows.

The wheels are turning freely so there is nothing wrong.

Data shows nothing wrong.

We said in our letter there would be no change, so there is nothing wrong.

200,000 cars were tested worldwide, so there is nothing wrong.

The VCA in the UK actually tested your model, so there is nothing wrong.

So I checked all of this out. Audi admitted they have no Data for my car prior to the fix being carried out. I telephoned the VCA and KBA to ask about the 200,000 cars being tested. They both told me only a handful were tested. I have an email from the VCA, stating that they were only tasked to check a couple of Skoda's in the UK.

So its been b******* after b******* from Audi UK, who just say there is nothing wrong. They haven't even taken my car in to look at it!!!

Another brand loyal customer they will be losing....

TimDavis    on 3 February 2017

Hi, Please can you search and join the Facebook group "volkswagen diesel customer forum" and repeat. this is another excellent example of a more clinical comparison before and after.

Rich kilborn    on 7 February 2017

GGot the same problems as you on my tiguan made notes on pre and post mpg compair to yours, it as now been 4 months after software update the car as nw got a booming noise similar to the noise during a regen, i am now looking into having it remapped before the egr valve fails.

Simon Blair    on 4 February 2017

I have just had my 2015 Touran 1.6TDI in to VW at the start of January and my monthly driving has always been the same since I we owned the car and now the mpg has drop from 40 - 34 mpg since the alterations ??

Mike7777    on 5 February 2017

Golf 2.0 tdi gt had the software fix in late October. 3 weeks later engine light, limp mode. EGR diagnosed and replaced. 3 weeks later same again, EGR codes. Had the original replacement done by local garage because vw wouldn't see it for 2 weeks and also said that the fault was purely coincidental. Now that the car is in limp mode again the garage don't know what's wrong with it as "it can't be the EGR, it's just been replaced". Could it be that a brand new EGR has been clogged up in such a short time as a result of the software? I'm about to find out. So far vw have denied any link. This is going to be painful....

piranz    on 5 February 2017

Having been the owner of an Exeo was delighted with performance and mpg ! But upon first hearing about supect problems pxd it as i know you cant just adjust software as the sytem is a reciculation one employing your car parts to burn up gases .How eve rmine allways had low test results and i dont beleive it was dirty in any sense as i am sesitive to doesel gases . I would not have mod done as my car had such low emissions .All the valves egr injection plus etc including exhaust lengths are exactly caculated as a closed system with many preset sensors so would require major redesign if you drasticly alter firing cycles . Current 4x4 has 2 dozen sesors in system and clean , just requires top fuel and ocassinal additve to aid burn of soot , well under limit pass. The goverment must shoulder some of blame along with vosa . I believe most polution was caused by munitions in recent wars along with all the very old buses and hgv trucks tractors on red diesel , not to mentio the Tons of heay diesel used by planes and ships . Motorists must protest as we are no longer easy targets !! We pay huge taxes for little return , clean up public transport and provide more of it because we have paid for it !

NDUF    on 6 February 2017

Seat Ibiza 1.6

Emissions recall fixed
Less than a week later, Emissions Warning Light on.
Went back to dealer who claimed NO KNOWLEDGE to link the two…
Next day, the Diesel Plugs warning light on and the car was in a permanent LIMP mode.
Car been in Seat Dealer in Croydon – the bill is £1400.

How can I claim this back?!

Mike7777    on 6 February 2017

Join this forum for lots of support. Many many people in same boat as you www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/
Let me guess, EGR valve or dpf?

Mike7777    on 6 February 2017

If you haven't yet taken your car in for the emissions fix, do not do it. There's nothing wrong with it now and you don't have to have it done. If you do there is a very strong likelihood that you will have problems or reduced performance and you will not be believed that there is a link, and you'll be on your own. Mega stress and expense will quickly follow.

Dan52    on 7 February 2017

I had my Audi A4 2.0TDI 2009 recalled on the 03/01/2017 3 days later i had an engine management light appear on my dashboard, now my car is serviced regularly and hasn't cause me any issues from owning it nearly 3 years ago, but since this update my car judders at low revs when cold and my fuel economy has dropped by about 10%.

10000 miles ago I had my Cam Belt and Clutch replaced so I know for definite it is not either of those causing an issue.

I of course called Audi and was told that the software flash wouldn't be causing my issues they have done hundreds of these and no problems have been reported, I have quite a few Fault codes that have been read on my ECU and only one of those fault codes I already knew about.

1 of these fault codes in particular is to much of a coincidence P0472 Exhaust Pressure Sensor A Circuit Low, I have had my car looked at and the DPF is empty, I am being told by a private garage that I would need to replace the sensor or possibly wiring, I didn't have these problems before the software flash.

In view of what I have read on this very helpful website full of a lot of comments by concerned owners of VW and Audi cars I have created a public Facebook Group, I hope you will all join me on there to Shame VW and Audi group into owning up to there shameful treatment of all of there customers, It is certainly making me think twice about owning another Audi.

I have recently started a public Facebook group to highlight and provide information to others so they can use other peoples experiences to clearly demonstrate to VW, Audi Group that what the dealers are telling their customers are complete lies.

I haven't posted a link to my Facebook group just incase it breaks and rules on this site.

Roy Thompson    on 7 February 2017

The concerning thing here is that there seems to be a "divide and conquer" approach being taken toward customers, essentially stone-walling anyone who raises issues and not accepting any responsibility.

What we really need is a sufficiently loud voice that will make VW take notice, someone like John or Martin Lewis who they can't ignore - does any have any contacts that can trigger any action?

ChallengerII    on 7 February 2017

My gosh, now I'm having problems and looking round for an answer i wish i too had read this thread before taking my cars in for the emissions 'fix' a couple of weeks ago. Both our 1.6 Tdi cars - a Golf and a Touran both built in 2011 - have had the problems experienced and being reported here.

My Golf runs on after i have stopped and removed the keys from the ignition with a slight judder being sent through to the steering wheel. Feels like the engine is still running! Very alarming to say the least. It did it last night after a quick 2 mile trip and again this morning after a 4 mile trip. Had the cars for years and never encountered this before.

Neither had i had any problems with a 'dead spot' in low revs changing up or down gears whereas now there can be a definite lag - just when you are demanding more power - it could be dangerous if you cant accelerate and get the response you need when you want it!

This is on top of having had to shell out over £550 for a new EGR valve on our bought new five year old 49,500 mile 1.6 tdi Se bluemotion Touran. Shocking and according to my garage a common failure on such vehicles.

Beginning to regret getting the VW emissions fix done and wondering if it can be reset back.

Richard

Charles Harkin    on 7 February 2017

My Golf runs on after i have stopped and removed the keys from the ignition with a slight judder being sent through to the steering wheel. Feels like the engine is still running! Very alarming to say the least. It did it last night after a quick 2 mile trip and again this morning after a 4 mile trip. Had the cars for years and never encountered this before.

Challengerli - you need to check your oil urgently. It sounds as if your oil is overliffed with excess fuel from interupted DPF regenerations. If the level is high get an oil change right awy.

Edited by Charles Harkin on 07/02/2017 at 11:36

Becxstar    on 9 February 2017

SAME EMISSIONS PROBLEMS AFTER UPDATE
My Audi Q5 2012 2.0 went in for it's emissions update last Friday 3rd and after 200 miles is now undrivable. The power disappeared on acceleration and smoke coming from the exhaust in gears 2-4 and strange noises from the engine. I too wish I'd seen this thread before taking it in. It is due to go in tomorrow for it's diagnostics. This is no coincidence and Audi needs to sort this out everyone is ending up with £1600 bills to sort out their mess. I am going to take it to my local press in Coventry.

Roger Thompson    on 14 February 2017

On 29 Jan I wrote, "I bought my 2012 VW Tiguan SE TDI Bluetech 4Motion in April 2016 and enjoyed 6 months of great motoring. I took it for its 23R7 EA 189 emissions software upgrade on 26/10/16. On 30/12/16 it failed to start and the AA diagnostic brought up P0403 EGR valve fault. A local mechanic attempted to flush out the problem so I wouldn't have to pay up to £1000 to get the valve replaced, but the problem re-occurred today (29/1/17). Looking at all the other posts about Tiguans and the emissions software upgrade, I'm wondering if mine is another instance of the same problem. The AA guy noted there were only 36000 miles on the clock, and thought it strange that the EGR valve should be clogged up already."
Update - during 2 weeks without a car the VW retailer tested the engine and confirmed the EGR valve fault and VW Customer services agreed to get it replaced without charge. This work was carried out last Friday (10 Feb). The Engine still sounds very throaty and clanky in low gear at high revs. I drove it into work yesterday and today, but on the way home tonight the engine cut out at a roundabout and wouldn't restart. I called the AA, but after a few minutes it restarted and I drove home. Just waiting for the EGR valve to go again.

Mary Gilbert    on 16 February 2017

My Audi A3 went in for update in Leicester Jan 6th. 13th Feb on motorway light appears on dash for engine management system, loss of acceleration later another light emission control system. Have returned to Audi today who say it is unlikely to be related to update....had to sign to agree to pay for transmission test for them to investigate.
Have only heard about this site via a friend and deeply regret update as I am dreading what is now ahead!
More to the point is anybody taking this further? This should be made more public.

Hey HonestJohn.co.uk can you lead us in this one? It sounds like there are a lot of problems out there and dealers perhaps not being as honest as they should. I was told only this morning by dealer that it wasn't a problem they had come across much!

Neil Wood    on 17 February 2017

Took my Seat Altea 1.6 ecomotive 63 plate to have the update done 2 weeks. Only had the car since October, didn't think anything about it when I got the letter stating to come in for the update, wish I had done some digging beforehand now. I do the same Journey all on main A Roads and dual carriageway to work each day at stupid o'clock each morning so there's minimal traffic which means I sit with cruise control on for 3 quarters of the journey. Before the update was easily getting 56 to 57mpg on this trip, since the update can't get over 46.1 mpg and the engine is a lot more noisy when idling in traffic. Really would like to know if this can be reversed, Don't want to go back to Seat as it looks like from the above post's nothing gets done! Presently i'm left with a car that has become economically unviable for me. If this can't be reversed may as well just sell it and cut my losses.

Diane Melia    on 18 February 2017

VW Tiguan Match TDI 4motion 2011
I loved my car, smooth running, great mpg and very responsive. Software update Jan 2017 and all that changed - immediate difference in power, mpg and revs. Also the clutch bite seemed higher. 3 weeks later as I was parking the car it lunged forward and stalled. The clutch pedal fell to the floor and the gearbox is stuck in gear and it refuses to start. There were no warning lights on the dash. Has anyone else had this problem? Could it be related to the upgrade?

JD100    on 18 February 2017

Had the EA189 software upgrade on a 110,000 mile VW golf 2.0 TDI 2011 DSG last October. Within a couple of days had problems with lack of power and engine mis-firing particularly at low revs - 1500 - 2200.

VW dealership who did the upgrade then took the car back for 4 weeks liaising with VW in Germany. In the end they had to replace the EGR valve and all four fuel injectors. There were also problems with the engine temperature. Oil temp reached max 70 C while water temp fluctuated wildly.

Dealership had to challenge VW hard as they denied the engine temp problems had anything to do with the software upgrade though the problems occurred immediately after the software upgrade.

Early Dec car returned and ran OK for two months though with lower fuel economy. Last week, same problem re-occurred with lack of power and engine mis-firing. Most noticeable on a cold start though even after reaching running temp reduced power and mis-firing.

Took back to dealership who investigated the problem. They are now having to replace all four fuel injectors AGAIN and the fuel pump - agreed by VW. Apparently the software resets the engine to behave as if it is new and older engines cannot cope.

There is clearly a significant and known problem with the software upgrade particularly it would appear on higher mileage cars.

I loved my golf before the upgrade - but since then it has NOT been good. VW are clearly now aware of some big problems since they are advising the VW dealership on what is required.

Not sure what is now going to happen when I get my golf back - will it need new fuel injectors every other month?

TimDavis    on 20 February 2017

Have a look aruond the Internet and you'll see you are really not alone. In particular search for the Volkswagen customers diesel forum on facebook. Its a closed group wit 530+ members following and supporting these problems.

   on 20 February 2017

2011 Passat Bluemotion 1.6.
Was running perfectly before update.
In for service, MOT and recall update today (after being reassured that it would have NO detrimental effects).
As soon as I put foot on accelerator to pull out of dealership, I could hear whirring noise when revs were above 2000. Never heard it before. Kicks in all the time above 2000 revs.
Straight back in to dealership 10 mins later. Technician confirms presence of strange noise, which they've "never had before after an update".
Now they're contacting VW to to a "disreport" and see what they advise.

E27002    on 20 February 2017

The first software defeat device loaded into the ECU was known as the "Akoustik Function" it was designed to solve unwanted "diesel combustion knock". The device injected extra fuel which silenced the knock but messed up the emissions results in the lab rolling road test. Audi then developed the "Akoustik" code to detect the dyno test when the function was disabled, but re-enabled for on- road normal driving.

Perhaps the new software code has deleted the "Akoustik" code which may explain the complaints about engine noise.

   on 22 February 2017

Noticed "judder" on our 2011 Golf after emissions "fix" during lower revs in third and fifth gear. Today, however, the engine juddered and died completely when turning into a junction. Power completely died. It felt like I was in third gear trying to do a first gear manoeuvre, quickly checked (I was in first) and reapplied the gear but to no avail. The car behind me, also turning, nearly went into the back of me because of the power loss. I was then stranded at a busy junction with my car - dead - blocking the road. Thankfully, after trying to start the engine for about 60 seconds, it started again and I was able to get the car home. I have booked it into the VW garage from where it had the "fix" with the hope they can fix the problem.

Douglas Hutchison    on 26 February 2017

any update? this is exactly what has happened to me. not yet phoned vw dealership will do so tomorrow (Monday). cheers Dougie

Douglas Hutchison    on 26 February 2017

Dear all

Having had the software update on Tuesday out Passat spluttered and died on us yesterday. I have 2 questions. Has anyone:

-Made progress with successful legal action against VW / dealership due to this issue?
-Approached the press with their story?

I will speak to my VW dealership tomorrow and battle with them and their £135 charge to do a diagnostic check just as a start point. There is no coincidence with any of this. Having read the posts it appears it is possible to get the update remapped back to original settings although implications for MoT / future sale of vehicle are unclear. Alternative options is a dead car!

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Dougie

Roy_01    on 26 February 2017

Do your homework first when deciding to perform this "update" is what comes up in my mind when reading all these complaints. The update is not safety related so not mandatory. And it isn't tested for a long period so very tricky. VW will not reverse the update because this would be a crime also. Only option is a newer update. Local remappers will not be able to do it because the software is very new.

Sarah Lawrance    on 26 February 2017

Absolutely agree with Roy 01. Did not let my local VW dealer fiddle with my Tiguan 170bhp recently when it went in for some minor warranty work. I was given the option by the dealer after getting the letter from DVLA or whatever they are called now. Dealer said I would hear no more from them once they had registered my refusal to have the work done. As Roy says it is not safety related, in fact it could be argued that the changes being made by VW are making the cars less safe if they are struggling to pull away smoothly/quickly as before, especially relevant I would say on the less powerful 140bhp models.

Richard 08

Pete mills,    on 26 February 2017

Pete m
My 1.2 tdi bluemotion polo 11 plate had the update and now has loss of power at low revs and "pinking" sound from engine.

Map Hill    on 3 March 2017

What are Sharan 2.0 Bluemotion DSG owners reporting after the fix?

VwDanCC    on 3 March 2017

Had my 2011 Passat CC 2.0 diesel upgraded on Tuesday when the car went in for the MOT and it feels like they have given me a different car back it's seriously underpowered and the throttle response is really poor there is a least an inch of travel on the peddle before anything happens and it certainly wasn't like that pre upgrade!!
This is not the car I test drove and purchased from VW and believe me I have loved owning this car but right now I'm not a happy man!
It's going back to the dealer for them to have a look in a couple of weeks so let's see the response I get.

Edited by VwDangti on 03/03/2017 at 14:19

VwDanCC    on 3 March 2017

Had my 2011 Passat CC 2.0 diesel upgraded on Tuesday when the car went in for the MOT and it feels like they have given me a different car back it's seriously underpowered and the throttle response is really poor there is a least an inch of travel on the peddle before anything happens and it certainly wasn't like that pre upgrade!!
This is not the car I test drove and purchased from VW and believe me I have loved owning this car but right now I'm not a happy man!
It's going back to the dealer for them to have a look in a couple of weeks so let's see the response I get.

   on 4 March 2017

Basically VW are digging a big hole for themselves.

I contacted the VW emissions department over 4 weeks ago regarding my 2015 Touran 1.6TDI. It was left in to VW at the start of January and my monthly driving has always been the same since I we owned the car and now the mpg has drop from 40 - 34 mpg since the alterations ??. They may have sorted out there cars environmental controls to keep the euro regulations happy but in sorting out the fix it has cost drivers an extra 10 - 20% in running fuel costs. It should be about time that we all stand together to have this rectified by VW as surely VW mpg figures are now misleading and false. I find it hard to believe that there customer support is slipping.

Huw Owen    on 4 March 2017

Had an invitation to join the party for my 1.6 blue motion(105 ps) 2014 Beetle. There is not a chance in hell that I am allowing this "modification??????" to take place until VW agree that this update is detrimental to the vehicle.Sorry for those who have experienced problems post mod and disgusted with VW for treating loyal customers in this way.

Huw & Karin Owen

Frazer Radford    on 5 March 2017

This is the very reason i left Volkswagen. my concience would not let me carry on telling loyal customers that the new version of Engine management software was not causing the problems that you all seem to be suffering from. if any of the customers who i had contact with over the last 12 months or so are reading this forum i can only appologise.

TimDavis    on 9 March 2017

Good morning. Would you be prepared to contact one of us in the Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum Facebook group?

Dave Spicer    on 6 March 2017

Yeti 2.0 CR170 here with the same knocking issues as everyone else between approx 1500 to 2500 rpm. The lady on the VW emissions line claimed to have never heard of the problem when I phoned last week. Unbelievable! Do VW think their customer's are stupid?

I have to drive 500 miles a week and am concerned that permanent engine damage will occur before I get any answers out of VW/Skoda.

If anyone has a cheap/simple way to revert the software, please speak up.

Patrick Wiseman    on 8 March 2017

Pat Wiseman My 2011 Tiguan R line 4motion 2.0 tdi 170 was recently due an MOT. As I have a service plan that includes an MOT I booked it in, stating that the emission recall fix was NOT to be undertaken. Guess what?...yep, they did it anyway!! "No sir we can't put it back to how it was..very sorry, blah blah"...I have been fobbed off many many times with promises of phone calls from a "Higher Authority" THANK YOU VW HERITAGE of YEOVIL! In top gear the performance is as flat as a pancake! Don't tell me the fix won't effect power or torque...low to mid range performance has been noticeably reduced. Citizens Advice have told me all I can do is write a letter to VW UK stating what happened and that should anything related malfunction in the near future, I hold them liable. (Whether a failure of a component is related to the said fix or not will no doubt be arguable until the proverbial cows come home!...what chance does the average man on the street stand against VW UK???) Why do I have to prove that what has been done to my car (against my wishes) has effected it's performance? Shouldn't it be VW's responsibility to prove that it won't or hasn't? Where are the independently produced before and after fix, power and torque graphs?? If it wasn't a legal requirement to have this fix performed on cars with the MOT cheat, then why can't VW reverse the procedure?

Edited by Patrick Wiseman on 08/03/2017 at 17:07

Dave Spicer    on 8 March 2017

Before and after power/torque graphs were posted on one of the VW Facebook groups (search for "emissions scandal" and you'll find the group). Power is shown as down 19% at 1600rpm, 20% at 1800rpm, 15% at 2000rpm, 4% at 2200rpm and is at normal levels from around 2500rpm upwards. Torque is down by around double those figures. It can't be a coincidence that my engine clatter goes away at the point where the power is unaffected.

The original poster adds an apt comment to the range where the power is down: "isn't this where we do most of our driving?"

Edited by Dave Spicer on 08/03/2017 at 19:54

Mark Jordan    on 8 March 2017

That's very interesting as my 2010 Skoda Octavia Scout has a huge flat spot between 1800 - 2200 rpm.
I initially assumed that it was blocked injectors, but a can of high quality injector cleaner, and 100 miles at 2500+ rpm, it's no better.

My experience with this debacle has put me off ever buying a VAG car again.

Dee Tee    on 9 March 2017

Oh dear. I'm regretting it too. It's only been about 10 days since the modification.
2009 Passat CC GT 2.0TDi 115k.
In 10 days I've had:
Lack of torque throughout the range, weird rattlly noise at low revs, engine fans on full blast after a run almost every time I drive it, had 6 Engine Fault Workshop messages this evening which chime in and then immediately disappear.

I think I'll be calling VW in the morning. I'd be happy if they put the old code back in.

Edited by Dee Tee on 09/03/2017 at 00:47

Francisco Malta    on 9 March 2017

Before the software remap recall, the Exhaust Gas Recirculation EGR, which cools and loops the exhaust gases back for a second combustion before exiting would only function when the cars were in "emissions test mode".

This was because the loop starves the combustion of oxygen which in turn reduce the heat that creates NOx.

However, now with the software update and the EGR valve looping the exhaust. It simply doesn't achieve a complete combustion at low rpm's and leaves un-burnt fuel, which is carbon in the chamber and injectors and this particulate matter fills up the Particulate Filter at a rapid rate... this is the costly filter and one to keep eye on.

There is an imbalance between current fuels and car emission technology, hence some premium fuels are better, but for city driving unfortunately it's still not enough.

Article here with further explanation: www.linkedin.com/pulse/stop-misguided-dieselgate-r...a

Edited by Francisco Malta on 09/03/2017 at 05:45

Charles Harkin    on 9 March 2017

Hi Francisco Good article. I thought I had a basic understanding of what this process involved but you have just blown a hole in it, a couple of points that I don't understand. If the EGR is turned off in normal driving will that not mean a lot more O2 in the combustion chamber, more heat and produce a lot of NOx? Your article also implies the SCR system only operates during DPF regeneration, is that true?

Maybe its time for a new fuel standard, what about mixing some petrol in the diesel, would that help reduce the soot.

Where do cars with a lean NOx trap fit in, I understand most of them are turned off after 20 minutes, the length of the test, to save fuel. Do they also turn of the EGR?

Frazer Radford    on 9 March 2017

Francisco.
as an ex VW service manager i can confirm that the new software is a danger to both the EGR valve and the DPF filter. dealerships will charge for a replacement EGR valve whereas it can be cleaned to a good as new standard for a fraction of the cost. in the dealership where i worked we had done a few hundred EGR replacements as a result of the emissions software. it was also made commonplace tthat if a car was booked in for service MOT and the recall. we made sure the MOT was done first. just in case of the emissions reaching a fail level, which some did...

in the first few weeks after the recall was rolled out there were problems reported from about the second day, for a couple of weeks we DID remap those affected cars with the Original mapping (all dealers have to keep this for 12 months) it was then stopped by Head office. we got a hell of a lot of unhappy customers, so eventually i would walk them out to their cars and quietly give them advice of a local remapping company who could put their car right again..

i know a lot of you have been emailing VW Customer service and not getting a reply for weeks on end, but keep emailing them DAILY and just maybe they will eventually see that they need to do something to keep loyal customers on side.

TimDavis    on 10 March 2017

Hi Frazer,

This may be a bit cheeky but ... please could you search for and join the "Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum" (closed) group on Facebook? We're a friendly bunch supporting affected customers and just trying to get to bottom of what VAG are doing.

Thankyou

gary powell    on 9 March 2017

Hello all. i recently replaced the egr valve assembly on a customers (lets call her miss x.) 2010 vw golf 1.6 tdi in november 2016 due to its' alarmingly common premature failure. power and economy returned and miss x was very pleased. now, i did fit a non genuine but good quality egrv from my usual parts supplier, but rumour has it that main dealers fit the same,and on logging and checking data on a road test everything was spot on.(ie;no flat spots,lumpy idle or unusual engine noises. mid january 2017 the vehicle was delivered to the local vw dealer for recall work,(they still will not tell us exactly what).they had the vehicle for nearly a week with no phone calls or updates unless prompted.when miss x picked it up she didn't even manage to leave the forecourt before the warning light appeared.so,they had it back, and rang her two days later for her to be informed" it needs a new egr valve." (she rang me straight away as i had said not to let them do anything other than the warranty things).i said "what?, not after only a month and a half and not even a thousand miles it doesn't".so they said "leave it with us and we will see what we can do" . (at this point they were not aware that a new valve had just been fitted).next day they called to say that they had cleaned it and it is allright now??????. so miss x collected her vehicle and returned home,(approximately 1.5 miles across town),two days later half way up the m6...bing,warning light and limited operation strategy (limp mode.) visit the hard shoulder and cycle the ignition again to continue the journey.this had to be repeated several times during the trip,both inconvenient and more worryingly, dangerous.on her return i plugged in to the diagnostic port and was greeted with fault code 7462-p0403 egr fault.?.
i contacted the technical department of the valve manufacturers and it was confirmed that they have had no problems with their valves,until after recall work,looks like the software will not work with the older version of the valve(my view.)
now i will freely admit that i am no expert or a marque specific specialist but i do have 35 + years experience in the motor trade,the last 24 yrs being self employed. i'm also unlikely to be able to design an engine management system from scratch but i have a pretty good grasp of an engines' requirements for correct operation,old and new both need the right amount of air,fuel,compression and in the case of spark ignition engines,a spark.and all this needs to happen at the right time.
poor construction materials and an assembly design not fit for purpose is my opinion. when removed it was obvious that some non-metalic parts had heat cracked and melted,i have not inspected the electronics yet,but i did keep the old egrv,so i will, to see exactly where the failure lies.
I mean,where in/on a car is there a more hostile environment than inside the combustion chamber and exhaust, and around the outside of the exhaust manifold ?...the perfect place(not) to locate electronic and plastic components,where the biggest enemies of electronics, heat and vibration,are in abundance.
a modern engines' management system can be complex ,but,if you understand what is required of it,reasonably simple. basically the engines control module(ecm/ecu/ems etc) uses information from various sensors,then acts on that information and consistantly monitors the resulting changes of information from those same sensors, then acts on that and the cycle continues. fault codes are generated when one or more of those sensors, return information that the ecms' preset receiving parameters deem to be outside of a set programmed value.
it seems to me that with a software update to control fuel injector timing/phasing and/or egr valve operation etc,attention must be payed to the ecms' feedback loop values. one of the most important sensors used in this instance is the mass air flow sensor. when the egr valve is opened,the ecm expects,amongst other things, to see a reduction in the measured incoming air mass(being replaced by recirculated exhaust gases),if it does not see a sufficient reduction,or too much of a reduction,it will not believe the information from the egrv feedback saying it is/is not open,and trigger the fault code. that plastic tube that vag group have introduced to "calm the airflow" in front of the maf,can only alter the information the ecm receives from it. so,the ecm will possibly see a differing percentage drop in measured air during egrv operation than before fitment of the tube. vag group must really think that we are all fools and banking(literally) on the fact that everyone will just agree to a new (and i would say modified to work with the software update) egr valve,which will probably cover their cost of software and parts recalls.
miss x took her car back today and they have told her it is definately the egrv that is faulty.i think not.i will have the car back and find out.
again, this is my own opinion based on my own experience, and it may even be that even the main dealerships are as much in the dark about this issue as anyone.after all,to keep a secret or perpetuate a lie,you must whisper it,not shout it.because the fewer people know about it,the easier it is to hide it.
it galls me to think that garages such as myself (sole trader) are the first inline for the generic scapegoating "they all rip you off"in the press etc,yet i know for a fact that the worst culprits tend to be the bigger garages with bigger overheads and staff wage bills.then when a really big company is proven to have lied and deceived it's customers and actual governments,not alot seems to be done about it.
i purposely have kept actual names and locations out at the moment.
sorry i didn't realise how long this rant was 'till now.

TimDavis    on 10 March 2017

Hi Gary,

Really good insight, thank you. Now, would you mind doing a search and considering joining the "Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum" (closed) group on Facebook? We're a friendly bunch supporting affected customers and just trying to get to bottom of what VAG are doing.

Thankyou

Charles Harkin    on 9 March 2017

Very interesting reading Gary.
It was assumed that the EGR valves were all failing with carbon deposit build up but obviously poor quality parts are a big factor. It must be within the ability of VW to design an EGR valve that lasts the life of the car. Im disgusted with them.

Chris James    on 11 March 2017

To be fair, the way that the EGR works, being in the flow of hot exhaust gases means that they get build ups of carbon quite quickly from the soot in the exhaust gas. I've had EGR issues on several cars dating right back to 1999, and you will also find many reported issues on pretty much every owners forum, in relation to their diesel models, its not a problem solely restricted to VW, its a flaw in the entire principle of how the EGR operates, which is why you will read many stories on forums, in relation to people blanking them off when out of warranty.

I've got to the point, where I remove the EGR on my car every 15k - 20k miles, and scrub it out with Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner to remove the carbon build up, then check the operation of the valve, before drying it and refitting. It's a pain, but should perhaps form part of preventative maintenance on any diesel car.

Jeff McCann    on 10 March 2017

Gary ,
very interesting. if the Original OEM egr valves are failing then there must be more of a reason behind it. you obviouly know what you are talking about. is it possible that the EGR valves are failing due to EXESSIVE use, given that the new emissions software produces more CO2, more particulates. it would be interesting to see how many times the EGR is activated in a car "without" the emissions modified software in comparison to the one "with" the modified software.

i still blame the new software, a friend has a Passat diesel, he has declined the recall on the basis of reading on the forums. he drives on average 500-600 miles every working day. his car is 5 years old now and he has not had any problems with EGR valve. so i dont think heat or inferior parts is the answer, his car now had 465,000 miles on.

VW know there is a problem my local dealer's service manager as good as admitted this to me six months ago, and said to me as i was leaving "disgusted" his paring comment was "you could always have a remap". which at the time i thought was a bit ODD but Reading Frazer radford's post it all makes sense now.

dieseldotty    on 10 March 2017

Hmmm. I thought that I'd read HJ saying that he'd met with VW recently and that, my words, he was more comforted about their assurances except, perhaps, for higher mileage engines.
I've refused to let Skoda do the fix on my 2011 140CR Manual Yeti but I was minded to reconsider following the HJ article. However, reading Frazer Radford's post has made me grateful that I've not had the fix despite umpteen phone calls from hired in numpties who are clueless about the issues surrounding this problem

Mike7777    on 10 March 2017

My EGR failed on my Golf 2.0 2 weeks after the vw update. The replacement EGR was a non genuine part, it lasted 3 weeks. I've had it tested and apparently it has an electrical fault, so maybe I was just unlucky with the part or maybe the update has caused it to fail as Gary suggests it might? Who knows.

Julian Hart    on 11 March 2017

I have a Polo Bluemotion 1.2 TDi 2011 and have just received a "final reminder" to have the work done. Not sure what to do now?

Edited by Julian Hart on 11/03/2017 at 08:06

David Lynch    on 11 March 2017

Has anyone else experienced a smell of diesel fumes in the car after the fix? I have a Skoda with a 1.9tdi engine. On a few occasions there has been a strong diesel smell in the car. I haven't spotted a pattern as to when it occurs. I took the car in to ATS to let them look at the exhaust and they said it's fine. Someone suggested it could be the particle filter regenerating but as it happened once at idle speed waiting at the lights that doesn't seem right. Asking a garage to look for an intermittent fault I can't reproduce to order seems a bit like holding your wallet out and saying please help yourself.

Anyone have any suggestions?

mhm    on 12 March 2017

Can we recap the evidence:-

VAG say they don’t know why they introduced a defeat device in Europe, but they are removing it to avoid doubt. They acknowledge engines produces 3 times the soot after the fix, but say this affects nothing and provide no proof. They admit that vehicles will regenerate more often, but say this will not impair reliability or durability. They checked vehicles before and after the fix in a test cell and proved that performance and fuel consumption were unaffected, but say nothing about before and after in real word driving conditions.

One the other hand, we know that EGR and DPF have a history of problems on diesel vehicles. We know that that many of the problems are caused by soot, and increasing soot will likely make such problems worse. We know that many vehicles have been damaged by soot, and owners are resorting to third party engine maps, to improve reliability at the expense of emissions. We know that other manufacturers use defeat devices to protect the engine from damage, and that removing such defeat devices will likely damage engines. We know that in the States, VAG introduced a defeat device to reduce strain on the emissions system, and when vehicles started to fail in service, the defeat device was improved to prevent vehicles inadvertently switching to test cell mode. We know that the VAG Engineer who spoke at the Transport Committee Investigation last year is currently under arrest in the USA, and says he was working under instructions from above. We know that many VAG owners are having problems shortly after implementing the fix, but VAG deny this has anything to do with the fix. We know that vehicle manufacturers and governments are under a lot of pressure to reduce NOx and would really like to believe that the fix doesn’t damage engines. We also know that governments are between rock and a hard place. They want to believe that manufacturers introduced defeat devices to protect engines from damage, while at the same time believing that VAG can remove a defeat device without causing damage to engines.

Draw your own conclusions, but I believe that this situation will never be resolved until all concerned start telling the truth and stop playing politics. Until then, everything will suffer including the consumer and the environment.

Steve Randall    on 12 March 2017

SJR

Firstly I would like to thank all of the Unlucky VAG Owners for creating this information, as my audi A3 1.6 TDi WAS booked in for 16th March, now unbooked after reading these threads..

Secondly, VAG would have had these engines under test for a long time before rolling them out into their cars, so they would already have Data and known failure of equipment when the Engines were first put into test with the original software ( Pre Cheat ), so sooted EGR Valves etc, and they would quickly realise that the Faults would happen very quickly,

So to overcome this, as they have to show the data to prove their emissions, they create the Cheat Software, as they know they cant meet specific targets with engine already, as engine would fail too many times under warranty, it would cost them Billions, So they create the software to cheat the Data..

Ok so they get found out, and they are forced to put it right, BUT they know under their testing that it cant be done without compromising on the Power, and Carbon Build Up, but cars now out of Warranty, so they go back to older software that they already know does not work, and creates the Faults that your all now Having..

This is Gross Negligence, and OUR Government should be taking action against VAG, to aid the Loyal Customers that Use their Cars and Pay Out Taxes..

I would Gladly give my Car to an Independant Tester, along with someone that has had the Software Upgraded, to see the Actual Results following the Software Upgrade, as to PROVE to VAG Group that they Know that the Software will destroy the Engine & Parts in a very quick time...

mhm    on 12 March 2017

I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, the government appears to be committed to reducing NOx at any expense. Particularly if the bill is paid by the consumer through increased repair bills. What they haven't worked out yet, is that vehicle owners, faced with increased repair bills, will increasingly resort to 3rd party maps which will be more damaging to the environment than the original software. It's all short term politics and shoot the nearest alligator. It's no surprise that we can't get a handle on the really big problems like climate change. It's so disappointing. I expected better than this.

Steve Randall    on 12 March 2017

www.vwemissionsaction.com/?g-recaptcha-response=&r...W

Auto Express mentioned that there are a few companies taking VW to court, this one is free, and recommended by Auto Express, I signed up for it, this thread is the Proof they need to get Compensation for all of us

Alan Judd    on 13 March 2017

I would like to join the list of 2.0 TDI 140 BHP DSG Tiguans (2012), 50k miles, that had the emissions remap, and is now suffering all the above problems: loss of torque, top end rattle at 1200 -1800 rpm, erratic low end gear changes. Much much worse when the air intake temperature is low.

We bought the car as DASWelt 'used' from a VW dealer, and signed a disclaimer about emissions. What we were not told was that the so-called 'Fix' , that was applied about 6 months later, would ruin the car, which is now just out of warranty.

I have always run the car on Shell Nitro, and it makes no difference to the problem.

I recently contacted Vindis of Huntingdon, the VW dealer that applied the 'fix', and asked them to put my car back to the way it was, to which they replied ' impossible' . They did give me this number: 0800 333666 for the VW UK department dealing with emissions, and guess what: they deny all knowledge of any 'problem', but are aware of the growing number of 'so-called' complaints floating around on the internet. They told me that a VW dealer will have to look at the car and report back to them. Is that report going to be biased I wonder! I have yet to take the car in, but don't hold out much hope.

This just IS NOT FAIR and the world should know how VW are behaving.

I would like to know if anybody is taking on VW for this problem in particular, i.e not just the Gordon Slater Compensation case?

Has anybody had a 3rd party map istalled that cures the problem?

Edited by Alan Judd on 13/03/2017 at 20:17

mhm    on 13 March 2017

I suggest u join this fb group

www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/

Frazer Radford    on 14 March 2017

Alan.

change of fuel will make NO DIFFERENCE. the software is controlling combustion andnot allowing full combustion. therefore creating more carbon build up. technically it is possible to have your old ECU mapping back, but... VW head office have clamped down on it whilst i was working in a VW dealership i got asked to do this by approx 30 owners a week, it got so frustrating not being able to help. i did offer some advice to a lot of ownersregarding remaps. some companies have "STOCK" maps for VW. they will be able to return the car to factory settings. or you could go the legal route. VW like any other company that remaps cars should by law keep a copy of the software before they overwrite or reflash. so somewhere on file at VW is your old version of ECU software, a good solicitor should get you access to that, but... could cost more than the remap route.

hope this helps

Stanb Sevento    on 13 March 2017

Free it is not. They take 30% of any payout so its no different from the rest.

Jane Gillespie    on 13 March 2017



My Polo 1.2 TDI went for the emissions upgrade in December and all I get now is DPF light coming on, as in manual I am able to get the light to turn off by driving for around 40 mins in lower gear, but tonight on my way home the catalyst converter fault light came on, I have rung local VW garage and my car is booked in tomorrow, I also called VW customer care and now have a unique case number assigned to me and I will be contacted by the emissions team, but have been told that due to the backlog of cases may not hear anything for at least a week, now do you not think that if they were not having problems with these emission fixes they would not have a dedicated team and a backlog of cases? The service guy at my local VW garage told me a few weeks ago when we took my daughters car in for a service that they were having problems, but funny today they told me that the emissions fix would not have affected my car. Well as they say fore warned is forearmed so watch out VW here I come.

D North    on 14 March 2017

Today 14 March 2017 I took my Passat 2.0 TDI 177 to my main dealer for the so called emissions Fix.
I have not seen any articles on post fix issues until this afternoon, but prior to taking my vehicle in I was concerned how VW could make software changes without side effects.
I have extensive engineering experience including within the motor industry and expressed some basic concerns in a letter to the dealer requesting that he countersign it to acknowledge that the performance of my vehicle would not be affected by the software changes.
This resulted in both refusal to sign and carry out the fix. The dealer stated that the letter would have to be sent to VW UK for authorisation and possibly to Germany. I shall not be returning my vehicle to VW for the Fix, Servicing or warranty work.
The content of the letter was not too heavy as I only requested assurance of a few points as follows:
“Please acknowledge by countersigning this letter that the above service action will have no detrimental effect on ANY of the performance parameters of my vehicle including but not limited to the following:-
1. Power output
2. Acceleration times
3. Fuel consumption
4. DPF Differential pressure.
5. DPF regeneration times e.g. period between regeneration
6. The volume of soot particulate the DPF will be subject too.
7. Any other performance parameters of the engine not listed.”
I enquired what wording was on the so called “Completion Certificate” that they were issuing Post Fix.
I was told that it stated that the power output, fuel consumption and performance were not affected by the software change. Has anyone got a copy of these certificates the could post on line?
On returning home, I tried to find an example of a Completion Certificate on the internet and failed. I did however come across all the issues customers were experiencing and the denial of the VAG group that the issues were down to the software fix.
After thinking about the issue, I thought that the changes probably also affect fuel flow, turbo boost, injector timing as well as EGR operation and an increase in particulate handled by the DPF.
I carried on looking for a copy of the Completion Certificate and came across an interesting document produced by VW for the American Markets This was titled “IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR 2015 2.0L TDI Volkswagen”. www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emiss...f

Within this document were numerous interesting statements by VW.

Firstly VW are modifying the 2.0 TDI engines in two phases
Phase 1 being software update.
VW Stated - The new software will affect your car in the following ways:

? Engine sound may differ from your vehicle’s prior operation. Although unlikely, the engine tone may vary slightly after the emissions modification is complete. This will not result in any noticeable change in the driving characteristics of your vehicle.
? An update to the engine cooling fan operation will allow your vehicle to cool more efficiently and may alter the sound that the vehicle fan makes once the engine has been turned off. This update is not related to the emissions issue, and is addressed in the spirit of continued vehicle performance improvement.
? Sport Mode Changes – While driving in sport mode the automatic transmission will shift earlier at low accelerator positions for improved driving comfort, resulting in lower engine speeds at constant driving.
? Improved Vehicle Drivability – Vehicles with automatic transmissions will exhibit improvement in throttle response, a smoother acceleration and improved driving experience.
? Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) consumption – DEF consumption for your vehicle may increase. The amount of the increase will vary. Some drivers will experience no change, but others will use 1% 14% more DEF on average (also known as AdBlue®). The amount of the impact will depend on driving style and other factors. This means some drivers will need to refill the DEF tank more frequently.
In addition, note the Sport Mode changes – These changes must greatly reduce the performance in Sport Mode. Therefore making Sport Mode ineffective. Therefore the vehicle is no longer as described when it was initially sold new to me.
Phase 2 The fitting of a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter
Obviously I realise that my vehicle is not fitted with DEF as per the USA but I assume that the new larger DPF was intended to coup with the increased soot particulate. Why is this not being offered in the UK?
Finally the other point regards the American issue is that VW are extending their warranty on emissions equipment such as the EGR, DPF and the total fuel system. It appears that UK consumers are being denied this warranty.


mhm    on 15 March 2017

We are of course the poor relations. Also, in the States they didn't agree to start fitting the changes until all the issues such as performance and durability haf been validated and compensation and warranty were agreed. In Europe of course we said just get on with it, you only need to test against the original flawed test and we'll sort the rest out later. Not a good negotiating position.

William Chisholm    on 15 March 2017

WC residing in France
Skoda Yeti 2.0 140 4x4.Ex Dem car from local main dealer 2013. Purchased at 6 months old.
Dealer completed 60000km service( inc.DSG gearbox oil change) when refitting my set of winter wheels and tires in Nov 2016.
Since that time I am constantly getting a smell of diesel fumes whilst driving.There is no problem with exhaust system and the problem has puzzled me for some weeks.
I now wonder if the main dealer in France has completed the "software" update without telling me.
Due to my limited ability to converse fully in French I am not aware of exactly what action the French authorities are insisting on re the VW EMISSIONS FIASCO and all I have revived from Skoda are 2 letters in early and mid 2017 to say I will be contacted.
In view of what I have ad on this forum I am seriously worried that my car has had the work done without me having been advised and am extremely worried that the current smell is just the beginning of some real and more serious problems.
I will monitor the situation and keep you informed. Meanwhile I have asked to join the class actions being taken up by U.K. Solicitors Slater Gordon,(I provided them with my email,which they acknowledged on their website) and will also join the Facebook Forum

William Chisholm    on 16 March 2017

WC Further to comment 11 hrs ago, I am unable to join U.K. Action which is limited to cars purchased in UK.
However I hope to be kept up to date with U.K. Action and hopefully this will point me in right direction for action in France.
Re problems I am encountering with my Yeti, I am unsure as to position as I think that my car has not yet been altered. Certainly I have not received any paper work from the dealer who looks after my car to say otherwise.
Will comment further as things develop

Ash Khan    on 17 March 2017

I have a passat blumotion DSG 2.0, 13 plate and VW has been sending letter after letter to get me to take the care for the fix, they even offered to visit me at home to get it done. However I am not sure if I would like to have and therefore wondering if this is a legal requirement? And if I do not agree to get it done on my car, will there be any implications - legal or otherwise? Dont want to get it done and then stuck with all these alleged issues which VW or dealership would not take any responsibility!!
Many thanks and appreciate any feedback.

Roy_01    on 17 March 2017

Not safety related so not a legal requirement. Just ignore the letters and don't react on them.

Frazer Radford    on 17 March 2017

Ash.

you dont legally have to get the recall done, it is not safety related. in fact it causes more harm than it cures. you could end up with EGR Failure and a blocked DPF in the fast lane of the motorway car goes into limp home mode, i think that more of a danger than how your car is now. in fact the recall does not do anything to lower emissions. it fails on that score. my findings show it increases the Co output and even the Nox (the gas it was supposed to cut) is 5% higher?.

the issues are real not (alleged) in my last few weeks at the VW dealership i saw first hand just what can go wrong, we had to replace scores of EGR valves, it was obvious the new software was causing this, but we were all told not to admit it to any customer and the customer ended up with a large bill... approx £900 in most cases. but as i have already said most egr valves can be cleaned and re-used. products off the shelf can be bought for £10 or less to do this.

Graham Shepherd    on 17 March 2017

Ash, take a look at question 50 on www.vwemissionsaction.com this should answer your question.
I have had 3 letters regarding my Passat. Thanks to the good people on this thread I am not going ahead with this fix and I've joined the action group

   on 18 March 2017

Audi A3 2.0 TDI 2012. Loved my car, thought I was doing the responsible thing to have the 'fix'. Within days coil symbol and limp mode. A bit worrying as overtaking a tractor. (Suddenly I wasn't). EGR valve diagnosed. Initially I was relieved that dealer agreed to cover cost as so soon after update but denied any connection. Thought that was that. Days later same thing. Quick diagnosis at Audi and they say nothing is wrong. Same thing happened the next day and been waiting to take it in and now DPF also on. Audi said they don't associate any of this with the fix. I suspect they will try to make me pay. Am about to retire and had planned to trade up this Easter before my income plummets. At present this is not an option as I can't trade a faulty vehicle unless I accept peanuts.

I did say at the beginning that I love my Audi- correction, I did! I feel I am being abused.

Roy_01    on 19 March 2017

Just overwrite the VW fix software with a remap and this will cure the problems.
Look for Revo-tune or darkside developments.

Frazer Radford    on 21 March 2017

Another good re-map option is BLUEFIN from superchips. this system is quite good, on the 2.0tdi 140 bhp engine it offers 184bhp and 386nm of torque. you get a handheld device like a code reader which stores your original ECU map, it also has the uprated ECU map. so when you take the car to VW for service you plug in and put the original mapping back the night before, then when you get the car back put the uprated map back on. this process takes about ten minutes MAX cost is £415 until the end of the month. the other good thing with this system is once you have it and you change car, stay with the VAG group (seat, skoda, VW or Audi) and you can take the new uprated mapping with you for a small admin fee superchips send you a new file for the new car, just download it and load it onto the car.

Since leaving VW i have recomended this to about 150 owners and all have been delighted with the product, i know it seems like you are paying to fix something that VW caused. but at £415 it is half what VW charge for an EGR valve replacement... by the way i have no affiliation with superchips what so ever. just beleive it is a good system and well proven..

not sure if you wera all aware, but the 2.0tdi engine was built for the 177bhp mapping that is / was an option at point of ordering at a cost of about £950.00 this was classed as the standard configuration for that engine. the 140bhp variant was just de-tuned to meet a sales pitch. the emissions are exactly the same in fact the 177bhp was slightly lower on the Nox emissions due to more eficient combustion.

hope this is of some use to you all

Dave Spicer    on 22 March 2017

Superchips told me they would base any remap on what's currently in your ECU, so I don't think it's a viable way to reverse the effects of the emissions recall. I've emailed a few of the big tuners and they've all said the same.

Frazer Radford    on 23 March 2017

Dave,

i have been intouch with the local agent for superchips and they tell me that yes you do send them your oringinal map file. but this is only so they can confirm the model of the ECU and other car specific details(vin number and sensor details). the map file that you get back is a generic code for your specific car ecu and engine, not based on any settings in the original map. i have driven a Passat that has had the Bluefin map (180)bhp applied and it does get rid of the engine noise that the emissions file creates. and the drive seems smoother, obviously an increase in power. economy will depend on the weight of your right foot. but the driver i was out with avaeraged 68mpg on a 30 mile trip on dual carriageway at 65-70mph.

Dave Spicer    on 23 March 2017

The response I got from sales@superchips was:

"The files we provide have to be based off of the data read from the car. We do not believe we can safely back date an ECU to an older version of factory software such as the version prior to the emissions update with a bluefin so we always provide a modified file based off of the original file read from the vehicle."

The emissions update changes the software and map tables. I've read elsewhere that the software part is locked so that it can no longer be updated via OBD, at least not without VAG's software.

Dave Spicer    on 23 March 2017

That was in December. Possibly things have changed now. When did you talk to them?

Terry Leathley    on 25 March 2017

We had our VW Golf upgraded, two weeks and less than 100 miles later, the car stuttered to a halt. We had the vehicle recovered to our local (non VW) garage. They analysed the fault as the fuel injector no4 was stuck open. New injector fitted and £680 bill. Thank you VW.
Reason for not taking back to VW. We did not know why the car had stopped, coud have been a simple fault. Also the log book for the nox upgrade is dated june 2017. Work was done in March. This sort of thing does not inspire confidence
Perhaps their expecting it back to finish the job!

   on 25 March 2017

I don't know where to start ??
I was nervous in what state I would find my car on collection after the update!
I worked last night and decided to go to the dealer first thing in the morning before I catch some sleep. I was welcomed, offered a drink (which I declined) and waited for the service team to open. (Waited for about 45 minutes)

One guy I had always spoken to arrived, introduced himself and was pleased to meet me finally. (He is a very nice, knowledgeable guy working for a mafia company)

He gave me the good news that my vehicle had the update, with new EGR, new DPF unit and new exhaust pipe changed.
In my head, this sounded like a brand new car. I was given an invoice and the driver handed my cars back with a smile on his face.

I couldn't wait but to have my keys in the ignition for a brand new experience. ??

The moment the car started, my face changed from ?? to ??????????! It made a lot of noise and was making intermittent raves itself. I noticed decrease in raves which was about 700-800 rpm. I made my way back to the service department to seek how long warranty would be for the replaced parts. The guy was honest and said ideally it would be 2yrs but since your car was done on goodwill, the invoice goes to VW itself not me!

I said ok. Went to the car, started it and drove off. No sooner had I just turned on to the road for about 2 minutes, all engine lights came on, displayed Start-Stop system failure as well.

I stopped traffic and everyone behind me was hooting but honestly, I have no idea why the car stopped and didn't start again for approximately 10 minutes. When it started, I moved on to the next side road and made a phone call to Alan Day and the service department was not available on the phone as usual. Was promised a call back which didn't happen. I was literally 10 minutes away from Alan Day dealership but decided to drive slow to home. On my way, no matter how hard you hid the acceleration pedal, the car won't go anywhere. In my experience, I have been left with a dysfunctional car and definitely not the car I gave to VW for the update. I warn everyone here that no matter how much they will convince you that with EGR and DPF replacement, the car will still feel different with no power and with very annoying sounds.

I have parked the car here thinking on what to do next as clearly, this car is not safe to drive on a public road and will definitely cause accidents (especially on a hill with traffic behind you. I have tried this and the clutch doesn't hold power anymore to balance in gear 1 without using a hand break)

To move off, the entire gas pedal has to be pushed all the Down (flat) to have access to the little power left in the car.

I don't know how everyone is getting on post fix but above is my regrettable and disappointing experience about the results post fix ??

Jeff McCann    on 27 March 2017

My car is not so bad as what you are experiencing. and with your report i would be expecting th dealer to do something, it must display to them the faults when you are there with them. insist they let you drive the car on a test route where you can demonstrate the faults. it sounds like the faults this recall is creating are getting worse. i did hear that VW had revised the software recently, when i heard this i had hoped that it may have been a fix, but it would seem not.

i am sure that if enough people get together and keep contacting dealers and customer service then with any hope something may get done. i am contacting as many magazines (motoring) as i can with the story so some negative publicity may have an affect.

i know the dealers have been told to deny that the recall has any affect on the running of the car, i have been discussing this with an ex VW technician, and he has confirmed that there are a lot of problems being caused as a direct result of the recall software, he told me he had personally replaced dozens of EGR valves and more seriously DPF filters.

Sadtomato    on 28 March 2017

I am so glad that I read this discussion from start to finish. Yesterday I had my 1.6 TDi Bluemotion serviced and MOTd but I signed to say that I did not want the emissions update carried out. This morning I have had a nice 30 mile drive with the engine running sweetly and at one point I set the cruise control to 32 mph for a 2 mile uphill stretch and the car would just about do it in 4th gear at about 1100/1200 rmp, though it is more comfortable in 3rd due to the long 'Bluemotion' gearing and I did change down when it got a bit steeper. I was thinking of the people who had been having their engines stall at 40MPH presumably due to much reduced torque at low engine RMP. I was so pleased that I had not had the update done and risked messing up the drivabilty of the car. I plan to keep it that way. I hope that some resolution can be found but I will not hold my breath. The Government is not interested in motorists' problems as long as theey pay their taxes. VW will brazen it out in the same way the BMW did over the ;swirl flap' issue and even if they sell fewer VWs and Audis they willl sell more Skodas and Seats as 90% of buyers probably don't realalise they are VAG cars! The UK motoring press probably don't want to upset VAG so will not say much. The good piece in the Gaurdian was in the 'Money' section! As for the BBC they are a bunch of tree huggers who think that car owners in general and diesel owners in particular are the children of satan and should burn in hell so I don't think we willl see much action from them. We may criticise the Yanks in many areas but at least they were prepared to make VW put things right for consumers!

Edited by Sadtomato on 28/03/2017 at 13:40

   on 28 March 2017

Had the update to my '12 Golf 1.6 TDI 2 weeks ago - 4 times have experienced sudden loss of power for a split second before it kicks back in. Had the car back to the garage today for them to tell me there is no fault and nothing they could do but they logged the issue with VW customer service and to contact them - contacted VW cs and was told I should not be contacting them and the garage have not logged any call, waiting on them to get back to me...I know what garage I will not be purchasing from, jury is out on whether I will ever buy VW again.

Jonathan Morgan    on 28 March 2017

I had the loss of power issue twice with VW Tiguan 2.0 TDi and took it into VW Aberdeen who would run diagnostics to determine the isssue. After reading this forum prior to drop off I told them that if it was the egr that I wouldn't expect to pay for the repair...The diagnostics was done for free as the emissions fix was done in December. They said if it was EGR that they would contact VW Uk to see what could be offered. It was the EGR and they called to say it would be £1600 to replace along with all the pipes, bolts, gaskets etc etc......However they were true to their word and had contacted VW Uk before contacting me...I was offered 90% discount and receive 2 yr warranty, or VW would pick up 100% of the cost but no warranty... We have went with warranty option at a cost of £160 for peace of mind. Although no acceptance by VW that the emissions fix caused this.....£160 is a lot better than £1600!. VW Aberdeen did what I asked and for that I applaud them. Thanks to this forum I had the info upfront before the issue was diagnosed so thanks for all the info on here and good luck everyone in your quest for action by VW.

Adam Montgomery    on 29 March 2017

I have created an online petition to Volkswagon, so hopefully everyone can mass and the numbers will speak for themselves forcing VW to take action.
Please take just one minute to sign the petition. Together we can have a massive impact. Please also share this link to others with the same issues, share it on your Facebook page etc.
Thank you

www.change.org/p/volkswagen-volkswagen-acknowledge...k

Sadtomato    on 29 March 2017

You might also consider a petetion on the uk.gov web site. If enough sign, the motion has to be debated by parliament. A plus is that everyone can see the number who have signed up. The petition would need careful wording!

Becxstar    on 5 April 2017

You might also consider a petetion on the uk.gov web site. If enough sign, the motion has to be debated by parliament. A plus is that everyone can see the number who have signed up. The petition would need careful wording!

There is a petition to sign here...
Help ensure Volkswagen service action is not damaging vehicles
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/183092

For help and support you can join this fb group (The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal) here...
www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/

steve khan    on 30 March 2017

I am unhappy with Audi over the emissions scandal as my car has been affected and I only found out after purchasing the car. Had I known this before, I would have never purchased this car. Audi did not contact me to make me aware that my car was affected by the emissions scandal until I made a complaint. Audi hen booked my car to carry out the and since then, the car is causing me significant problems. The car mysteriously rattles, has poor fuel consumption, difficulties in starting, low power and weak acceleration. I have read online that many other cars have also been affected after they were taken into Audi/VW dealerships to be repaired.

deagle    on 31 March 2017

Owner of a 2.0 TDI 140 bluemotion here. It is clear to me that there is no upside to having this fix done. I don't want to hate VW or have hassles with the dealer.

Notice the wording of the claim from VW... no change to maximum torque. well that's not the same as saying no change to the torque curve. We don't all drive at 4k revs !

So ... my Golf has now gone to Independent specialists for servicing (it's out of warranty). I don't trust the VW main dealer because I have previous experience of the information written on the worksheets not matching the actual work done.

My Golf runs sweet and I think there may come a time when the "un-modified" cars carry a price premium on the 2nd hand market.

I can't seem to join the FB group... probably cos' I only have an account for reading - don't post on FB.

Deaglecat

Edited by deagle on 31/03/2017 at 18:09

Sadtomato    on 31 March 2017

Sounds like a wise decision. Further, the Bluemotion models have tall gearing to minimise CO2 and they rely on having decent torque at low revs. Reduce low speed torque and you may have a can of worms. The worms may also rattle and smoke!

Jeff McCann    on 31 March 2017

I bought a Bluefin remap on Monday as recomended by Frazer Radford here last week. the process was easy the unit arrived the following morning, ten minutes work reading the existing code from my car. then install the Bluefin Desktop software on my laptop. upload the file to superchips, then a few minutes later i got the modified file back. ten minutes later the file is loaded to my car.

having driven the car now 3 days since loading the new mapping i can say it has transformed the car. the rattle from the engine has gone, economy seems better by about 4 %. today i have driven 600miles from the midlands to parranporth and back and power is great less gearchanges on the hills on the A30 and an average of 67.4mpg... also there has been NO dpf regenerations since installing bluefin. with the VW emissions software i would have had FOUR today alone.

i know £400 is a little expensive to cure a fault that VW created, but the bonus is i can take the bluefin with me wehn i change car, as long as i stay with the VAG group. or they offer a trade in of unit if i decided to go for say Mercedes... and i have the option of putting the VW software back if the car needs to visit a dealer. Well impressed

   on 1 April 2017

Unbiased here.
I drove my father's 2014 Tiguan TDI140 DSG before and after mod. I didn't know he'd had it modded but it now rattles as others have said. More like clatter than rattle and power is noticeably down. He is OCD about fuel and has noticed consumption rise from 42 to under 38 MPG.
Plain misleading and his last VAG car.

Kevin Kelly    on 1 April 2017

I've just seen an article in the Times that mentioned a problem post "fix" with VW's. I had the fix done on my Golf 1.6 TDI and within days, while travelling from Scotland to Manchester, it lost power unexpectedly.
After arriving in Manchester I arranged for a visit to a garage, but got the AA to inspect the car and was told it was possibly to do with DPF, however, when in the garage and after a diagnostic they said they couldnt figure out what the issue was, but settled on changing the solenoid as this was the cheapest item to fix.
I put two and two together and questioned if the fix had been the cause of the issue, especially as the car had been running well until this happened. I'm now really concerned that this is going to be a long running issue for me.
Now that I have read the notes I am definitely confident that the so called fix had done something to my car.

deagle    on 1 April 2017

eh... how would changing a solenoid help a car that was down on power ? if it wouldnt start and you couldnt hear it click in then ok.

solenoid switches current to the starter motor.

Roy_01    on 2 April 2017

Your mean a relais i think?

Dee Taylor    on 1 April 2017

Prior to the fix I had no issues with my Golf. Fix was applied a few months ago. Since then glow plug/engine management light, 'go slow mode'. A couple of different mechanics have tested the car and said the EGR valve has packed in.

   on 2 April 2017

We have a 1.2 Polo diesel. Prior to the fix there were no problems with the car. Following the fix, we have experienced a sudden loss of power / engine flat spots. These typically occur when you are slowing to enter a junction but don't need to come to a complete stop. Rather than picking up in a low gear, the car just bogs. We took it to VW who claimed that after extensive driving, they couldn't find anything wrong with it, but our local mechanic commented on it after the car went for it's most recent MOT, saying that it was dangerous. This was without us having told him to look out for it, so something is definitely not right with the car. It's good to see that others are reporting similar problems as VW will not be able to fob us off now.

D North    on 2 April 2017

Observations regard VAG so called emissions service action.

2014 VW Passat Estate 177 – 12600 miles

1. If the assertions of P. Willis of VW are correct regards defeat devices why is it necessary to modify vehicles?
2. Why has the torque curve been moved up the rev range apparently making the vehicles difficult in traffic and a write off as a tow vehicle?
3. From comments seen, it appears as though various set point alarm parameters have been raised in an attempt to delay engine management warnings. People also seem to be experiencing loss of power, reduced fuel consumption. Why when I paid a premium for the uprated 177ps version of the Passat would I wish to submit my vehicle to software changes that may result in loss of power for which a premium was paid.
4. I believe that Mr. P Willis of VW has stated that the changes were to implement technology not available when the vehicles were built. As a professional engineer I find that an insult to my intelligence, especially after spending part of my working life for the company who produced early ECU’s for the K Series engines. The changes on the 2.0L models is purely software and the technology to code them correctly from new has been available for many years
5. I assume that the few vehicles that were submitted to the KBA for emissions tests were low mileage variants (they even may have just had EGR valves, DPF and turbochargers replaced prior to being submitted for testing).
6. Many people are using vehicles such as the 1.6 Golf for a lot of short start stop journeys – motoring that they are not suited for. This in itself is not ideal for the DPF and EGR valves and the implemented software changes will probably not improve matters. I have been so paranoid about DPF and EGR issues that I would not use my vehicle unless I was on a long journey. As a result it was left sitting on my drive most of the time.
7. The VAG poor response to those with issues, had made my mind up initially not to submit my vehicle to a VAG garage for any work, whether it be warranty or service related. The continued negative reports and prevarication from VAG made me go out last Thursday and sell my vehicle in favour of Petrol fuelled Mercedes at a considerable loss for the 2 years 8 months I have owned my VAG vehicle.

David forbes    on 3 April 2017

2011 VW Golf 56000 miles.The car is nothing like the car I had before being "altered" due to the emissions scandal by VW. It was shuttering at the start.. brought it in and they did a diagnostics test- I was told there were some issues... asked to fill with BP or Maxol deisel and drive longer distances. The car chugged on the way home from the diagnostics (never happened before) -felt like a blockage in the fuel getting through. Phoned to warn the garage they may need to tow me out of rush hour traffic. Got home ok. Car went ok for a while and then rainy damp weather and the drive feel was different again - just not driving as it should. Taking it back in today. In the last few weeks Ive noticed the average MPG has gone up to over 60 ..which is crazy because I'm getting less miles per gallon. One more twist which I will report today.

Jacob jane    on 4 April 2017


Had my 2010, 1.6 seat Ibiza for around a year now. Me and my partner have never encountered a problem and the car has always ran smoothly. Had the update around a month ago, went to pick my car up from the seat branch and as soon as I started to drive the engine management light and two other lights popped up on my dashboard as well as my car going into limp mode. I rang the branch as soon as I got home and explained what had happened and they told me to bring in so they could see what the problem was. They kept the car overnight and when I went to pick up the next day their were no lights. Thinking the problem was fixed I said no more. Now three weeks later and exactly the same lights have come up again and my car is in limp mode. I’ve rang the branch and explained the problem again and have been told that this problem is just a coincidence and not linked to the update which is absolutely laughable baring in mind they’ve already tried to sort the problem once.

Frazer Radford    on 4 April 2017

jacob,

the problem you are suffering is attributed to the emissions fix software that seat have implimented on your car, if you have followed this thread from the top you will know i was a VW service manage until recently so i have seen this from the other side. what is happening with your car is most likely the DPF filter is getting partially clogged causing the lights on the dash and going into limp mode, we had this a lot, possibly 2 cases a week following the implimentation of the new software. all that the dealers will do is manually force clean the dpf and reset any error codes. then you get the car back and all is fine...ish!. for a while.

as i said in a previous post the new software is limiting combustion to attempt to reduce emissions, but as a result, it is causing more carbon buildup in the EGR and DPF so cleaning is needed more often. most of the time driving will clear the DPF, but if most of your driving is in town the lower burn temperatures associated with the new software does not get the DPF hot enough to clean itself. before the recall your exhaust gas temperature was 30-70deg (c) higher therefore cleaning temperature was achieved sooner.

the only thing i can advise is try and go on the motorway once a week for 20 mins 60mph or higher will clean out the dpf. i know this is not a fix but at least it should cut down on trips to the dealers. another thing email VW customer service DAILY pester them!!!. there was an article in the Daily Mail last week statintg 64,000 owners are experiencing problems after this recall, contact a few motoring publications and press to see if they run an article. the more pressure is applied then VW should be made to allow you to have your old ECU mapping back as all was OK then i assume?.

Jacob jane    on 4 April 2017

I'll try giving it a blast down the motorway and see if it makes it any better but the only problem is I can barely pick up speed with it being in limp mode and when you say it should cut down trips to the dealers does that mean I'm going to be making several trips to them? I must admit that pretty much all of my driving is town driving so my journeys are always quite short, only on a rare occasion does the car get a long run. Would you recommend changing to a petrol? And just incase the garage try to deny it has anything to do with update are you saying it does? Really appreciate the advice, just wanna get the problem sorted!
Thanks!!

Jacob jane    on 4 April 2017

I'll try giving it a blast down the motorway and see if it makes it any better but the only problem is I can barely pick up speed with it being in limp mode and when you say it should cut down trips to the dealers does that mean I'm going to be making several trips to them? I must admit that pretty much all of my driving is town driving so my journeys are always quite short, only on a rare occasion does the car get a long run. Would you recommend changing to a petrol? And just incase the garage try to deny it has anything to do with update are you saying it does? Really appreciate the advice, just wanna get the problem sorted!
Thanks!!

bimgot    on 4 April 2017

Great to see some consensus on these issues, I unknowingly agreed to have the fix applied to my VW Golf 1.6 TDI 2010 6 weeks ago along with a MOT/service.. last weekend the car packed up on the motorway for the 2nd time (Glow Plugs EML, Emissions Control EML) - the first time I was able to drive it safely to a VW main dealer to diagose the fault (£150) and they told me they "recalibrated one of the fuel injectors" and that it should sort the problem out.. Unfortunately, the second time (a week later) the car did not fix itself after a restart and I had to have it towed 70 miles home.. the car is now awaiting diagnosis with a VW main dealer and i'm preparing myself for the road ahead..

Has anyone contacted VW UK about this? Is there a number I can call? All of these reports seem too much of a coincidence for VW to ignore, I no longer have faith in VW, any VW main dealership, and least of all my car which has lost a huge amount of value.

I will never buy a VW ever again

Sadtomato    on 4 April 2017

Proving that faults have been caused by the emissions update is an argument that will be near impossible for the individual to win since the dealer holds the cards. All they have to do is to say that the car was OK when they did the work and has gone wrong since just by chance due to normal wear and tear even if that means that unless your car has low milage or new EGR and DPF have recently been fitted then it cannot be reliably fixed at all! As for how long even correctly working cars will last post fix it anyone's guess. The dealer franchises are going to be under strict instructuions from VAG not to admit any liability probably on pain of death! The only way that the argument could be won is through collective action where a weight of evidence from many individuals is presented to a court and even then the counter argument will try to say that the cars became faulty however unlikely that might seem. However courts usually arrive at sensible conclusions and it should be clear enough. VAG are shooting themselves in the foot and maybe a few other places by forcing owners into the only option available. Who would want to buy a used VAG Euro 5 diesel now knowing that it could potentially be a lemon? These cars may me worth very little in the coming years. Having said that I have no idea how they could fix the faulty cars (and the ones that subsequently become faulty) apart from restoring the original maps which we have been led to believe would be illegal. It is quite a tricky situation for VAG but they have only themselves to blame.

Amanda Wilkinson    on 5 April 2017

I have a 2011 Skoda Yeti which was called in for the emissions fix in November 2016. Since this time i have had 3 episodes of both the coil light and engine management light coming on the dashboard. My car on all occasions went into 'limp' mode and i managed to get home safe. I went into the Skoda dealer where i purchased this from, and was met by a rather rude receptionist, who after i explained i have had no issues with my car post this 'fix', was met by 'oh we have done hundreds of these fixes and have never had anyone complain of this before!'..I left. Last month (March 2017) it happened again. I took it to my garage who ran a diagnostic test and they told me the EGR valve was faulty! And then explained the cost of approx £600 to replace and fix...out of warranty i was mortified and angry! I knew my car was working well post this fix...and so i investigated online and it seems this 'fix' has caused many other customers to have the same fault..I took it back to my Skoda dealer and explained i was not happy, and believed my problems started following this, and that i would wish to make a formal complaint to the manufacturer. I had to allow them to run another diagnostic, which they said would cost me £75. They did this and the same fault read again. An hour or so later the manager ushered me into a room and said that they had spoken to the manufacturer and that they had agreed to pay 90% of the cost to fix my car and the dealer would pay the remainder 10%!! No admission to the 'fix' being the fault, but i think we can all say that VW know that this can and has caused the EGR valve to fault on any other vehicles. My worry is any further faults that may follow, including i have been warned the DPF! I have lost complete faith in VW, and no longer have faith in my car. I wish i had not bought it!! Hope this helps anyone who is having or had the same issue post the emission fix..take it back and demand a repair.

Becxstar    on 5 April 2017

Hi all,

There is a petition to sign here...
Help ensure Volkswagen service action is not damaging vehicles
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/183092

For help and support you can join this fb group (The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal) here...
www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/

Bigbunny2017    on 5 April 2017

And the humble POLO (1.6 TDI) can be affected as well. Before fix - excellent drive and acceleration - 7 yrs old - only 35K mileage. Post fix - acceleration woeful - then EGR valve went after 100miles (mostly motorway driving). Dealer has been very helpful. I suspect Dealer is not happy with VW HQ and reading between the lines seems as if the dealer feels that VW HQ have misled the dealer about the whole issue. Suffice it to say that after 2 weeks the dealer is still waiting for authorisation from HQ to replace EGRV. Main concern however, is how the car will drive even once that is done and whether I will have to fork out for remapping.

HummingDuke    on 6 April 2017

My 2011 VW Golf 1.6TDi Auto has suddenly started behaving strangely. It's been absolutely perfect for the past 5 years prior to this, really 100% trustworthy. But now it has a loud rattle on cold start, almost like a misfire, which clears after engine is warm.

The bigger problem is that on a long run, I'm getting an engine warning light and loss of power to accompany it. It's happened twice in the last week and I've had to stop driving it as a result since the loss of power is positively dangerous when trying to pull out of a junction on anything other than an empty road. Barely accelerates up to 4th/5th and then sticks in 4th/5th until it finally creeps up to cruising speed (as long as there's no incline) after literally several minutes of driving. Had the update 5 weeks ago. Car is in for investigation with VW today...

bimgot    on 6 April 2017

Have you had the emissions "fix"? If so demand a full and thorough diagnosis and prepare yourself for any of the following:- (Faulty Fuel Injectors (1-4), EGR Valve replacement, DPF replacement) all of which should be carried out FOC from a VW main dealer, if they disagree, call the VW emissions hotline and ask them to create a case for you.. I also recommend joining this facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/

Paul Bateman    on 6 April 2017

Will a remap from a reputable motor sport tuner return performance and economy?

Roy_01    on 6 April 2017

Yes, and cheaper then a new egr valve.

Edited by Roy_01 on 06/04/2017 at 15:09

Andy Swanzy    on 9 April 2017

My name is Andy

I took my 2009 Passat R type to my local lookers dealer on the 4th of January 2017, for the software upgrade after receiving a letter from VW asking me to do so. That same day when I picked up the car, I noticed that it was smoking badly. I took it back the the dealer and all they said was that the DPF [diesel particulate filter] is regenerating itself. After several complaints and a letter, they took my car in and claimed to have solved it. However, my car is still smoking filling the car with fumes and the smoke smells of oil. VW claim that by their estimate the smoke is not that much and there's nothing they can do, when my car is still smoking… didn’t happen before the upgrade.

   on 12 April 2017

Has anybody had any problems with the Parking Sensor as a result of the Emissions update?.
I have an A4 2011 2L Quatro/Tech. Had the update done recently, about a month after the P/Sensor and display starting getting temperamental, now it has stopped completely. About to go back to Audi, but would appreciate if anybody is seeing the same issue, suspect its a coincidence as this should not be linked to the EM unit ?

bargee1759    on 14 April 2017

I have a 2012 Skoda Yeti 170tdi 4x4 that I've had since new & is affected by this emissions issue, however 2years ago (once out of warranty) I had a stage 1 remap done on the car. This takes power to 210 bhp & torque up to 430nm. Emissions on the MOT according to the test station are now so low that they are apparently virtually unmeasurable & the print off I get quotes all the lowest mandatory figures as an arbitrary result rather than the ones actually emitted by the car! The car has now done 93k faultless miles (40k+ since the remap). Fuel economy is 5% better than before even using the addictive extra performance, but if you're careful betters official figures. I can see 49 mpg on a long run (52-55 mpg on the optimistic trip computer) have never had any fault codes & can't remember the last time the DPF did a regeneration. I have now signed an opt-out form at the dealers to take me off the mailing list as I don't want my car touching / wrecking by them. This VAG post-fix situation seems like an even bigger fiasco / scam the the original "cheatgate" saga. Don't bother with the official fix, get a reputable remap (More bhp, Shark etc) avoid the problems, enjoy an even better driving car & gain REAL WORLD fuel economy & lower emissions at the same time. Win-win!

Roy_01    on 14 April 2017

The dpf regenerates every +/- 400 miles or earlier depending on the soot value.

E27002    on 3 May 2017

Please post the figures for emissions meaasured by the MOT station, what is the NOx value?

If your exhaust smoke figure is so low that it is almost immeasurably then that is a sure sign the mapping has raised the level of dangerous toxic Nox above regulatory limits

Sadtomato    on 14 April 2017

While remaps may be the only way to get a 'fixed' engine to work properly (though CO2 and NOx will probably be unknown), only a few will go for them especially when it is pointed out that they are not actually legal. VW should not be allowed to ruin our engines but that IS actually legal! The consumer is but a pawn in a very large game. You are probably right that the longer term effects of the 'fix' will be very damaging for VW as we will have a whole generaation of TDi VAG cars that could be seen as unreliable if the 'emissions fix' causes many cars to fail. Even if they can make them work for a while with new EGRs and DPFs it will not help if these parts fail again after a few thousand miles and if the customers get stuck with the bills they will not be keeping quiet. On the other hand, in VWs favour it seems that our government is declaring war on older diesels and this with the introduction of Ultra Low Emission Zones, propbably based on the draconian London proposal could see much pressure on Euro 5 diesel owners. Maybe we will see a new 'srappage scheme' though I cannot see that being very gererous and even with scrappage not everyone can afford a brand new car. However with our cars branded as responible for tens of thousands of deaths, even if not supported by proper statistical analysis - without presenting SMRs (Standardised Mortality Ratios) the 'excess deaths' figures are meaningless - we may not get much sympathy. With the mounting pressure, used car values of Euro 5 diesels are probably going to drop well below the levels that we might have expected but those who have signed up to claim compensation from VW may be disappointed if VW can show that diesel values have plumetted for all makers and the peanuts that ours are worth is just due to market forces and government policy and is nothing to do with them! Personally I think that soon, the only supportable claims against VW will be for the fix having ruined engines, not for direct loss in value as that case may evaporate with price drops accross all marques.

Edited by Sadtomato on 14/04/2017 at 11:19

Jeremy Bates    on 14 April 2017

Had my emissions recall done last August, since then have had an EGR valve replaced by VW. this was at 72kmiles. then after 500 miles the same symptoms again no power (limp mode) and the engine light. had the car recovered home and got VW to collect the following morning. they diagnosed EGR valve AGAIN!!!. i questioned this and they said it was down to driving style?? the original EGR had done 72k miles, then with the same driving style the second EGR was toast after 500 miles?.. so i got the car taken to an independant Audi man he has cleaned the EGR and recomended a remap to solve the problems. he recomended 2 different companies "Bluefin & Shark" not sure what you mean byt the comment Remaps are illegal. both the bluefin and shark remaps put the car to 180bhp and this is what the 2.0tdi was designed to be, the 140bhp varient was a de-tuned version to meet a sales value.

i wonder if those considering the ultre Low Emissions zones have stopped to think what the end result would be??. if diesel drivers have to pay an extre "TAX" to drive into towns, a large proportion would avoid doing this, either shop online or drive to areas where there is no TAX to go to. resulting in towns becoming Ghost towns shops closing down. this would be a loss to the economy, a loss to the chancellor, and move the pollution out of the towns ...Yes but... will it?. if you realise where 75% of Nox emissions come from is the Home Central heating boiler, commercial heating boilers, Busses and delivery vehicles. the actual reduction in emissions would be very minimal at best.

the whole Euro emissions clasification is at best a farce. my son has worked in vehicle testing for 25 years and has tested many cars since the VW emissions scandle broke. cars that have had the fix are emitting more after the fix than before. and more to the point. the figures that VW publish for co2 emissions are over stated. the car actually emit 40% less than the official figures. he has done testing on our Passat 2.0tdi and his own 1995 Land rover discovery. the results were a shock. the Passat had higher emissions than our son's discovery, and our passat has not had the so called fix done the euro emissions classification are just a sales generator to please those signed up to the tree hugging fraterinity. just think back to school, they taught us about natural cooling and warming of the earth, so i think we all need to think which set of facts are most beleivable, the ones with historical proof or those generated by governments looking to generate more cash. i knw where my vote goes

Sadtomato    on 15 April 2017

Regarding remapping, the Dept of Transport say that it is an offence under the Road vehicles Construction and Use Act rule 61a(3) to use a vehicle which has been modified such that it no longer complies with the air pollution emissions standards it was designed to meet. Cars are certified by the emissions regulator and you would have some difficulty in proving that a remap had not worsened emissions without some sort of agreed re-certification procees so I woulld say it is more or less illegal unless you want to try to prove otherwise. Hefty fines can be levied. There is also the matter of insurance which in most cases will be an issue when you tell them you have had a re-map and if not declared one's insurance may be void. This is all a pity as remapping will fix a lot of problems but rules is rules!

I agree with everything you say and the ULEZs will have the unintended consequenses that you describe but we are but voices in the wilderness. Western democracies all move towards strangulation with rules and regulation usually formulated to serve the political aims of those in power rather than the welfare of people in general. I particularly despise the use of dubious science to re-inforce the 'need' for regulations. It is so easy to do this as the 'man in the street' who does not understand science looks up to the emensely clever scientists without realising that many scientists are just in it for themselves - no global warming, no global warming scientists! Just looking at cars, we have had Euro 3, euro 4 euro 5, euro 6 and ever more restrictions are being planned for the future however impractical or expensive they might be to implement and the regulators dont care how much we have to pay for all this! Untimately the political classes want to ban ICE - both petrol and diesel. When they have done that, and having let us have electric powered transport they will want to move towards banning that too. The 'scientists' will probably say that the electric motors are producing harmful ozone and must be banned. Ultimately it is all about power and control. Mobility of the people can dangerous to governments - mobitity empowers people to make their own choices - and if it can be restricted, so much the better! Sometimes I think that benign dictatorship would be better than democracy but then you look at North Korea!

Edited by Sadtomato on 15/04/2017 at 12:47

E27002    on 29 April 2017

Typical Eu5 specification (eu5 came into effect 2010) diesel cars were known to be 5 times the 180 mg/km limit, the Eu commision were aware of this but did not press the matter as european car makers were in financial trouble with "the greatest economic crisis they have faced" . The Eu commision were of the opinion Eu 6 would solve the diesel Nox problem. Eu transparency laws mean the written correspeondence concerning Eu5 diesel Nox exceedance issues dated 2012, between the Directroir Generals of the Eu responsible for environment and his counterparts for industry are available online to confirm this post.

Don Heath    on 14 April 2017

I have a 2013 registered Tiguan R line 2ltr TDI. I am not happy at all. I bought this car 1 year ago and specifically asked if it would be affected by the emissions scandal and was told no the engine was made after the problem ones. However i have recently had it recalled for the "Fix" and since then the car which had been a really sporty active car is now a dull noisey and thirsty commercial like van.
I have been back to the dealer who put the car through the workshops and said it all came up correct on diagnostics. He did agree it may use more fuel as the fix causes the injectors to push in more fuel. I am not a mechanic so apologies if i haven't used correct terminology.
Anyone got any ideas what can be done to get my cars performance back ?
Don

   on 15 April 2017

Just had our VW Tiguan Serviced, MOTed, Cambelt change and Emissions 'fixed'... 2 days later our Emissions Control Light has become permanently illuminated. VW Garage's first response is 'you can't drive it - we can fit you back in for a month'... eventually manage to bring that forward to a weeks time - then 'Our standard costs are'... obviously we told them we're not paying a thing - but to say we're fuming is an understatement...

Mike Augisfat    on 21 April 2017

I appreciate everyones time in posting their experiences. My question is, how are these "fixes" taking place on non 2015 models?

Here in the US, I have been told repeatedly by VW that only the 2015 models were approved for the fix, hence I still have to wait for my 2011 Jetta Wagon TDI fix (or of course trade it in on the full by back program).

I love this car, I have been on the fence on what to do so since the announcement. The car still drives like it is on rails and I still get amazing fuel economy.

I have a neighbor who did the 2015 fix and like many of you have reported, he claims that his milage went into the toilet and the engine is louder and shakes more then ever (like the original VW Rabbit diesels did back in the day).

Any insight will be greatly appreciated, as I really want to keep this car but based on many of these experiences posted, I am afraid I might just cut the bait and take the money and run (and not be able to replace it with anything remotely as good spec wise, peformance wise and styling).

Edited by Mike Augisfat on 21/04/2017 at 15:36

Sadtomato    on 21 April 2017

Mike, as US and UK models have different specs and are updated in different years they may not be easy to compare but it would not be surprising if the software and mapping modifications use similar strategies with similar results! I plan not to have mine 'fixed' as we are not forced to as you are! You are lucky that the US government cares enough about consumers to force a buyback. Many of us in the UK would jump at the chance of selling back to VW though we do have the 'advantage' of having other deisel cars to buy as all makers sell diesels here! Good luck whatever you do.

   on 21 April 2017

24 hours and a short drive after my Emissions Fix (along with service, mot & cam belt change as above), the dashboard illuminated with the Emissions Control Light, along with an almost continuous and urgent ping. VW Garage tell me this is due to a faulty coolant pump and excess oil in the throttle valve - neither problem is apparently connected to the emissions fix or each other - and both have apparently been building up or registering problems for a while. They wish to charge me an additional £700 to fix these items. I can't help but feel cheated and robbed - believing, as I do, that they ARE connected to the emissions fix in some way. Registering this issue incase others have similar problems.

Charles Harkin    on 22 April 2017

There is no boubt the above problems are related to the emissions fix. You need to complane to the Emissions team at VW and tell them you expect them to pay for the repair, dealers are trying to fob people off, possibly under VWs instruction. Tell the dealer you wish to make a complaint and they will likley start the ball rolling. Many many others are in a similar situation and VW seem to be caving in and paying for the problems they have created.

If you are on Facebook join the group for lots of information and advice. volkswagen diesel customer forum emission scandal

Edited by Charles Harkin on 22/04/2017 at 08:20

Frazer Radford    on 24 April 2017

From Day 1 we were told to fob the customer off because Head Office had issued the recall software and because they had been pushed into doing something they were playing the naughty schoolboy, and any revenue generated from repairs that were as direct result of the new software would help VW pay for the USA claims.

i totally agree if enough owners complain something will have to be done especially if some legal people get involved, by far the easier option and cheapest option for VW would be to put the old software back if an owner requests it. they can do this all old versions are stored on the server at Head office, if they are going to be paying for repairs on customer cars then this may actually happen. the parts cost to VW for an EGR valve would cover the labour cost of mapping the ecu back to original settings on 3 cars. i dont know if just complaining at the dealers is enough though, as a lot of dealers will listen whilst customer is there... but when they go home maybe the complaint gets filed under "B" for Bin. use this link www.complaintsdepartment.co.uk/volkswagen-uk/ or copy and paste into browser and use some of the contacts there to make your requests known.

go for it complain...complain..complain

Frazer

E27002    on 29 April 2017

The very first version of the defeat device software was known internally to Audi as the "Akoustikfunction".
Basically the "Akoustikfunction" was written to stop an engine combustion rattle in normal road driving, and allow the combustion rattle when a positive detection of a dyno emissions test when the needs to reduce Nox output were paramount. If VW have deleted the function in the software update, is this behind the reason for the complaints of combustion knock following the software update?

jcjuk    on 1 May 2017

Yet another one - 2011 Golf 1.6 TDI. Flashing glow plug of doom and 'limp home' mode on any journey after the 'fix' ...

jcjuk    on 1 May 2017

Yet another Golf 1.6TDI - 2011 this time. Any reasonable length journey leads to the 'flashing glowplug of doom' and limp home mode ...

Annie Green-Armytage    on 1 May 2017

I have had major problems with my Seat Leon since the emissions mod, resulting in the local Seat dealership having to replace some kind of emissions valve. Still sluggish and rattly and my confidence in its future performance totally undermined. Have asked repeatedly for the mod to be backed out to be told this is not possible. Is this really true?

Richard Anton    on 1 May 2017

2012 yeti 2.0, owned from new full dealer service history, 4 years of troublefree motoring.

Post emissions fix the torque is noticeably lower at normal driving rpm, MPG is down about 15%, and much more frequent regens.

VAG emissions helpline did not want to know, refused to even log my complaint as none of the above are issues in their tiny closed minds.

Everyone affected should write to the transport committee and alert them to the scale of the problem - a few thousand emails arriving in their inbox might spur them on to hold vag to account. Google transport committee for the relevant mp's emails.

Sadtomato    on 1 May 2017

Everyone affected should write to the transport committee and alert them to the scale of the problem - a few thousand emails arriving in their inbox might spur them on to hold vag to account. Google transport committee for the relevant mp's emails.

I fear that we are on our own and have little that we can do of a practical nature. There is a UK Government online petition regarding the 'Fix' but it only has around 500 signatures which is at the 'ignore' end of the response spectrum. VAG want to forget about this as quickly as possible. Our Government (unlike the USA Government) have little time for motorists - we just cause problems and produce lethal emissions (apparently) - we are just a cash cow to them. The BBC hate all motorists and diesel owners in particular. The Motoring press need to keep VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat onside or risk their own livelihoods so they are no going to make a lot of fuss. Our Euro 5 spec VAG cars are likely to become unloved and unwanted once the motor trade work out that the emissions fix is turning them into 'lemons' and the Government have invited us to scrap them for peanuts. I refused the 'fix' but my car is just as devalued at the rest of them. Some of us consumers are very upset by all this but we are greatly outnumbered by sheep who will probably just go out and buy another VAG car and not vent their disgust on internet forums! As Fraser said in Dads Army - "We're doomed!"

Slinknet    on 7 May 2017

Join the group action being taken by Harcus Sinclair against VW. It is the only way that owners will get any compensation from VW, or be taken seriously by fixing the fault that they have created.

   on 1 May 2017

I have passat 2008 TDI engine code CBAB and after the 'software update' lights start to flash and alert the watch panel
MIL, CHECK ENGINE & DPF
and after 1 week the car fall to 'limp mode'
I went back to VW they told me it's not because our update, we can't take responsibility on this problem, you need to pay for test and repair
which mean maybe to replace throttle or\also dpf unit
surprisingly I went to a VAG specialist. He partially solved my problem via VCDS but I still have strange problems that were not before
such as P0088 fuel rail pressure - too high
or P2103, P2111 and more
I have no any idea what to do with this???!!!

Richard Anton    on 3 May 2017

Starting point should be vw emissions helpline to log an issue. Hopefully they will approve diagnostic. A diagnostic would have been prior to installing the update and they would not have done it if any errors were logged.

Second, go over to vw emmissions scandal facebook page where you will see others experiences. Makes it harder for them to pull the wool over your eyes if you are aware of the scale of the problem.

Roy_01    on 6 May 2017

Sounds like your fuel pump is busted, very expensive fix.

Slinknet    on 7 May 2017

We have a golf 1.6 tdi that had the fix applied at the beginning of April. After just a couple of hundred miles the car had an engine fault with the amber coil flashing on the dash. This is the first fault in 55000 miles! Too much of a coincidence? Now have to get the car transported home, not sure what we can do next, but I don't want VW to cover their tracks by handing it back.

J Cooper    on 7 May 2017

Sadly my VW Tiguan died on me in heavy traffic and without warning ... it literally just stopped working. It had the recall completed about six weeks ago and it just wasn't right from the moment I drove it away ... loss of power, intermittent power loss, not starting first time and not changing gear very well. I've only done about 500 miles since the work was carried out. I'm now waiting to see what the garage has to say on Monday. They have already admitted that some customers have been experiencing problems since the recall. I was so angry with them on Friday that I told them that they would be hearing from my solicitor if they didn't give me some answers on Monday. They have estimated that the repair cost could be in excess of £1000+, which is not good but he also added that VW have been very generous to some customers by carrying out the repairs free of charge.

Slinknet    on 7 May 2017

You need to join the group action being taken by Harcus Sinclair against VW. We should not be paying for the damage that VW is causing to the vehicles. VW are not being generous by fixing these faults, they are just repairing what they have introduced.

Frazer Radford    on 9 May 2017

Sounds like EGR clogged, we were replacing 30-40 a week before i left VW 3 months ago. unles they are offing a FREE repair i suggest you find someone with a code reader, i would expect to see P0407 and P046C. these were what we were finding. however VW always took the easy route (replace). where a strip down can avoid this and clean them out would save a lot of money. initially VW were expecting the customer to pay 100%. but i have heard recently that they are in some cases doint the replacement free of all charge. remember ALL parts come with a MANUFACTURER warranty. so if VW want to charge you to qualify for a warranty question this as VW dont make the EGR valve. most likely just a way for VW to regain some money. but if they chage you 10% then you are paying the cost price of the EGR valve. think before you accept any offers made at the dealers.

Becxstar    on 13 May 2017

Hi, there are 1000s with the same issue, unfortunately. VAG are dismissing it is related to the 'fix' because they state the KBA (German Authority) has tested it. There is an underhand approach to customers asking them to pay for the failures afterwards unless they call the emissions helpline. For more info and support from fellow suffering motorists join the FB group here www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/

I also had a turbo and EGR cooler failure 200 miles after the update and was quoted £2200 to fix it! #vwfixfail

Jeff Howarth    on 15 May 2017

Hi, new here , but I just received another VW Letter.
Has anyone questioned the way they worded the statement "the independent authorities have confirmed that there will be no negative impact on engine performance, maximum torque, fuel consumption, noise and CO2 emissions" ?

- independent authorities - presumably automotive consultants paid by VW

no negative impact on :

- engine performance - has anyone seen and evidence ?

- maximum torque - interestingly, they only refer to maximum, not torque across the range - so it will be reduced, otherwise they would say so.

- fuel consumption - under what circumstances ?

- Noise - not sure how that's relevant - actually surely it will change because the car will no longer change mode if you sit with the throttle at test engine speed

- CO2 emissions - what about CO emissions that they were defeating in the first place?

Juyst curious.


Jeff
2010 GTD GOlf 2.0 170BHP

Chris Pugson    on 16 May 2017

My 2013 Jetta 1.6 HDi SE received its 23R7 on 1st March 2017. Engine performance seems to have been unaffected and fuel consumption has improved from 53mpg to 58mpg (driving on urban roads). I am pleased with the results. Perhaps VW's previous experience with the updates has benefitted the cars which were processed later. The 1.6 EA189 engines were at the back of the 23R7 queue.

I hazard a guess that EGR failures are the result of build up of deposits causing sticking of the EGR valve due to additional valve travel after the update. I have always used Shell VPower Nitro Diesel fuel with this car to keep the engine internals clean. I consider its extra cost to be an investment.

Gordon Pickering    on 18 May 2017

just had my tiguan 170ps 23R7 done last month , and has lost mpg when towing a caravan from 30mpg down to 24 mpg ,i also feel it has less power when towing

And without towing on a trip to Scotland before 23R7 remap was 50mpg, now 44 mpg,

took back to VW dealer kept it in for 2 days and said there were no faults in the car ,

i asked them to put it back to what it was before 23R7 but said they couldn't do it
very dissapointed with the dealers attitude have just complained today to Volkswagen UK , just need to wait and see what they say

Richard Anton    on 23 May 2017

Same issue with my yeti. Response to your letter will be same as mine, which can be conveniently paraphrased as "no link between Nox fix and any of the issues you are experiencing. Please go away now."

Visit the vw customers emissions scandal facebook page to see the same cut & paste response every letter gets.

Camilla Herrmann    on 19 May 2017

Our Passat Bluemotion 1.6TDi was done on April 24. Initially the average fuel consumption as displayed on the dash was noticeably worse, around 44-48mpg on a long run when i would normally get 52-55. Then I suddenly had really good consumption, one rural 5-mile run over 60mpg. Yesterday we took the car into London and the engine management warning light started flashing orange. When we left London this morning the light didn't come on & we drove the car carefully to Barnards of Stowmarket, who did the recall fix. They diagnosed an EGR failure. It is being replaced without cost, and because my husband is a wheelchair user VW has gone to some trouble to find a suitable courtesy car, but repairs will take up to a week because parts have to come from Germany.... could this be because VW is experiencing so many failures? When I mentioned to the mechanic the fuel consumption issues, he expressed no surprise at all. However the official line from the garage is that the EGR failure is nothing to do with the recall, it's pure coincidence, but VW are doing it free of charge because they are very nice people. Hmmm.

Edited by Camilla Herrmann on 19/05/2017 at 15:53

Jeremy Bates    on 20 May 2017

Camilla... the sudden good consumption that you had is classic eaarly sign of EGR problem. but... what VW are saying regarding parts could be true they must be replacing hundreds of these. however it is most likely not needed for replacement. last week i had the same problem but i had the good fortune to have a friend who is handy with the spanners, he remover the EGR and gave it a good clean and re-fitted it. all took about 50 minutes, he cleared the error codes and for now the car is driving OK. but i can only assume due to the Recall software this WILL be happening again soon.

Gordon... VW could put your original software back, but they have been told not to by head office Milton Keynes. the experience you are having with the dealers is going to be the same at all dealers. they have been told to deny all and admit nothing. on here there is an EX-VW service manager who has pointed that one out a while ago. complaining once to VW is not going to have much affect. it needs to be a group MASS effort. i have been emailing them every day now since November and all we have done is confirm address and reg number.

beware their classic delaying tactic is to reply with... you do not appear to be the registered keeper of the car!!!... i have had this one and i know another 50 or so who have had the same text.

Keep emailing them at customer service (DAILY) with any luck the masses of emails will purge some action

   on 21 May 2017

The emission fix was done in My Tiguan 2013 in December 2016 in Aberdeen. few days later i had the alarm of the egr on in the dashboard. when calling the dealer he denied that this can be related to the software update ( strangely i received the call one week earlier asking if everything is ok with my car). after this i took it to two others garage who confirmed issue with the egr and askednfor 1600 pounds to change it. since then i have an engine more noisy, loosing power and above all a faulty egr...Now we are May and after going to the dealer and explaining that i m not the only one, they accepted to call back the car and discuss any issue with VW. I 'm waiting my appointment next week and will let you know the outcome. in the meantime i was offered a courtesy car this time and was not asked to pay the 90 pound upfront as they asked me to do back in January.


This just show that now the issue is clear for them and guess the numbers are growing.

The problem is that i was planning to drive my car to spain next summer for hollidays but now i m afraid to have an issue in the road



KEEP RAISING YOUR ISSUES


PLEASE JOIN THE CLASS ACTION

Sabiya Nasima    on 30 May 2017

I have had the fix done in jan 2017 and last week a flashing coil light would come on when i start the car with an 'engine fault' message. It would go away if i switch of and in. After i put new fuel in it disappeared for a couple of day but then came back whilst driving. Yesterday the catalytic converter light came on when i started the car and again engine fault message.. ( no flashing coil though). I have booked with vw but if this is a faulty egr valve do i have a case to argue payinng for a new one?

Edited by Sabiya Nasima on 30/05/2017 at 12:57

Richard Anton    on 4 June 2017

Yes you do have a case. Starting point should be to log a case with the vag emissions helpline. They have just posted on their website that they are now offering a 2 yr warranty (of sorts), presumably to encourage more people to get the update now that word is getting out that it will ruin your car.

Richard Anton    on 4 June 2017

And get yourself over to the vw customers emissions scandal facebook page - their is a lot of good information so you can get clued up before vag try to b******* you.

MLG    on 30 May 2017

We had an interesting side-view of the EGR situation last month, when the wife's 1.6 Golf (Mk6) threw an EGR valve after about 50,000 miles and she was left stranded with a totally undriveable car.

Now, I'll get this out of the way as quickly as possible: We had NOT had the fix done - it was just lousy luck, or maybe a weak EGR valve that had died a natural death. (It was electrically fubar, apparently, so it wouldn't have been possible to clean it.) ****BUT**** when we got the car towed to our local (independent) dealer, he told us that Volkswagen had said they were NOT currently supplying replacement EGR valves to independents - and that they had refused to give him even an estimated date for when he might get the part.

In the event, our independent finally managed to get his hands on an EGR valve after ONLY three weeks . And that fixed it. But if VW are really claiming that it's just a coincidence that so many EGRs are failing just after the fix is done, then all the evidence is against them.

In practice, it's completely obvious that VW dealers across the country are up to their flippin' ears in urgent demands for new EGR valves - because the fix puts a whole pile of stress on EGR valves, whereupon the older valves fall over immediately under the extra strain. I expect the DPFs will be next?

We're getting to the point where proving the EGR connection is like trying to nail Donald Trump over Russia. We know we'll get there eventually, but as long as they stonewall and employ heavyweight lawyers to fend off the bl**din obvious, it's quite hard not to despair.

Jeremy Bates    on 2 June 2017

As far as i can tell the EGR valve is the same on a lot of VAg group cars. i bought two last week on the internet and when they arrived they had the Audi logo stampe into them, they had been bought for a Passat? i fitted one to a friends car without any issues. the items came from Germany and were here in 3 days from ordering. i am suspecting any car with the same 2.0tdi engine from Skoda, VW, Audi or Seat will take the same EGR. TPS Nottingham have them for next day delivery listed for Skoda and there are lots on "the bay" listed to fit many of the VAG cars with the 2.0tdi

i can see why VW dont want independants to Buy them and have tried to corner the market. i paid £136 each for the EGR including i think £20 for shipping. it took just under an hour to fit so if you take VW's hourly rate the whole job should cost no more than £200?.. they are charging £900 ish... sometimes more

but would it not be simpler to campaign to get VW to let us have the old software back??..

i know odd ones will have EGR failure without the Emissions FIX software. any number of things can cause this, bad fuel, type of driving, or just plain bad luck.

Jane Hooley    on 5 June 2017

Hello, I have a SEAT Ibiza 1.6 TDI (2010) which went in for Recall in December 2016. Since I have had the vehicle back it hasn't been the same. The car seems to struggle when setting off and takes a few seconds before it recognises that I have accelerated. Since the recall my Coil light now flashes and my Engine Light comes on. I once broke down and the faults listed were all do with the DPF. Last week on Thursday 01/06 the car went for MOT and Service, since the recall took place at the local dealer i decided to take it there as i wanted to voice my concerns regarding the car performance since the recall. As the lights were not on the car, there was nothing stored in the computer however the car passed the MOT. The only thing that the dealer advised was that I needed a new Boost Pressure Sensor which there were referring back to SEAT to cover under the original recall. Happy days I thought until Friday morning when I started the car and I had the coil light flashing and the EML back on. I emailed and called the dealer. I wont bore you with all the calls I had to make but basically my car was classed as undriveable. After 12 hours on the phone to the Dealer and one call to SEAT Customer Care (which didn't offer much care) I finally got a replacement courtesy car through VAG Group. My car is still currently at the Dealer waiting to be looked at however I was advised that a case like this had been in recently and SEAT covered 90% of the total cost for parts and labour, leaving the customer to pay around £70.00 Has anyone else had this type of issue, I had to literally threaten the dealer with driving the car and parking it over their forecourt for them to finally get the answer from SEAT (VAG). Jane

Edited by Jane Hooley on 05/06/2017 at 13:20

Frazer Radford    on 7 June 2017

I have been discussing EGR failure with some of my contacts in other VW dealerships this week and Yes they are struggling to keep up with EGR replacements. another thing came up in discussions, and that is that there are a number of VW and Audi Service departments accross the UK that have SUSPENDED implimentation of the recall. so looks like there is some doubt on the safety of the software at head office? i will do some more investigation and see what i can come up with.

but this could be the thin end of the wedge for all owners. once i can get this information out on as many internet sources as i can then maybe some force can be applied to get the appropriate action for you all.

with reference to the shortage of EGR valves... to independants, this is mainly due to independants not having access to information to cross-reference part numbers. in reallity a wide number of 2.0tdi engines have the same EGR. but have differing part numbers, whilst dealers could

regards all
Frazer

Vic Es    on 7 June 2017

I bought my 2013 Tiguan 23R (2 litre 130ps) off my sister in July 2016 because it was very low millage. I made the mistake of taking it in for a service and MOT in July 2016 where the VW dealer very kindly installed the "fix" at the same time.
Since the fix, my Tiguan has been performing like an asthmatic, old age dog. It's been using approx 10% more fuel than before the fix and, the engine sounds like it had a bag of nails installed with the service. As I don't do much millage (6000 miles in the last year) and the vehicle is fairly new, I haven't had the DPF or EGR problems.

I ended up on this site a couple of months ago and realised I was not the only one and that VW are not going to reverse the fix. So, I got in touch with Bluefin/Superchip and paid for a remap.

What a difference! I could tell from the first restart after the remap that the engine was running smoothly and with no nasty rattles. I have had the remap in use for 2 weeks now and my millage has returned to what it was and the engine has it's torque back. I can drive up the hill in top gear again. Very happy with it.

Not happy with VW, this will be my last one, never again.

Joeyyy    on 8 June 2017

I had a software update on my Audi A3 last week, since then I feel as if the engine was going to blow up!! Low power, rattles and poor fuel consumption. Audi didn't have much to say so I contacted Reece @ Dynomap who I was referred to, he very helpful and came out the next day to Reverse the software update. Hay prestooo cars like new again, also got myself a cheeky remap in the process ??

www.dynomap.co.uk
07934 934 934

Twiki    on 8 June 2017

No problems with the software downgrade? I thought that this will block the engine ECU.

Joeyyy    on 8 June 2017

No problems what so ever and I'm so happy with the remap, my car is so alive and responsive now. I've sent my dad and friend to Dynomap for the same service and they are both over the moon so this guy does work wonders and has a 4WD rolling road just for curiosity.

Twiki    on 9 June 2017

I have the actual ECU SW file that I was thinking to use after going to VW for this recall action. The ideia is to install it again even before doing a remap (to improve the car behaviour). I want to do that because I don't know if the simple ramap will "destroy" all the "malicious" things VW will done to my car (adjustments in the sequence of
pre and post-injection that lead to the increased number of DPF regen, for instance).

But I am afraid of having the ECU blocked when I try to instal the old SW.

Ervid    on 11 June 2017

Hello how much did this cost ? And did you have a rattle from your engine ?

Sadtomato    on 18 June 2017

this seems quite interesting - www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40280395

Joeyyy    2 days ago

Twiki just give them a ring, the guys are really cool there just say that I told you to give them a shout from this forum and I'm sure they'll accommodate you. No point in doing the sw update at main dealer it's a waste of time just ignore the letters

Yes Ervid my car was running fine until Audi done the update then it started misbehaving, after having the SW reversed and the car remapped it's been 100x better than ever before £400 for the remap and I (think) £200 if you just wanted to reverse the software. Just driven to Belgium and back and it's so much better since I've had the remap on the motorway and from an economical pov, best money I've ever spent on a car!!!

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