Nissan defends Leaf over claims buyers were misled

NeedToCharge.com    on 6 July 2018

I did not know about these limitations. They put me off buying an electric car.

This shouldn't put you off buying an electric car, it should just put you off buying a Nissan Leaf.

Manufacturers have a choice of how to handle this sort of thing when designing a car. Nissan chose to protect the battery by limiting your charging of it. Other manufacturers (such as BMW) designed the battery charging to support rapid charging without limitations by using thermal management of the battery (to cool or warm it as appropriate). That way the battery is protected and the user can charge at full speed.

Andrew Waterer    on 8 July 2018

Thanks Barry, this is a great car for lots of folks who dont need range, but not if you want to do longer journeys by motorway. The issue is motorway speeds eat range (and who wants to be stuck in the slow lane at 60 for hours on end?), as do hills, very cold days and very hot days. So a motorway journey with two lots of 115 miles or 230 miles is the real limitation here and why rapidgate is limiting time wise for anyone travellling any real distance occasionally or regularly. I just cannot understand why Nissan left out the TMS on this great car, given the issues with battery degradation on the 30KW Leaf, prefering to make their customers suffer extended charging times with their charge throttling software.

davethesteam    on 9 July 2018

I would second Barry's comment. I have done 2000 miles in 2 months. I regularly rapid charge, but have never needed to rapid charge twice in a day. I get about 170 per charge. If going on a long trip I would start with a full charge from home charger. Rapid Charge at about 150 miles giving me a range of 320 miles. Enough to get me from London to the Scottish border. This would be such a rarity if I had to wait 2 hours to charge it would not bother me that much. My first 1000 miles cost me under £10 due to free chargers. The second has been more because local rapid charger now costs. But still it has come in at £50. I have been so impressed with the Leaf. It's semi autominous driving, great cameras allowing me to get into parking spots I would never have attempted before, and the epedal. Anyone critising the car just can't of driven it. Sure it is not perfect but welcome to the future....

I have considered an EV - the Leaf in particular being the only EV in my price range witha class leading range. Howvere, that range (as any EV) is totally useless to me - I will reconsider when ranges top my diesel of 500miles plus per charge (tankful).

I am also unsure what the tarrifs are at the rapid charging stations - I'll bet it ain't cheap

Wyatt Earp    on 6 July 2018

Good point I always plan my trips so I know where charge points

are at my destination. What I couldn't understand was why his range

was so low? I'm still interested in 1 though

niggle    on 10 November 2018

Do you not stop at all on a 300 mile journey? The Hyundai Kona EV is now available with a real world range of 260 miles and with a short rapid charge while you nip to the loo or have a cuppa will get you there. Hyundai and Kia EVs have proper TMS so repeated rapid charges are no problem, unlike with Nissan's offerings which have fallen behind in EV technology IMO.

NickNike    on 12 July 2018

More and more is based on politics, and less on common sense and good engineering logic.

NickNike    on 12 July 2018

The fundernental technolgy is not advanced enough.

NeedToCharge.com    on 9 July 2018

An electric car doesn't care where the electricity comes from that you put in it. Many people opt for the electricity to come from 100% renewable sources - e.g. Ecotricity when using public charging, or one of the numerous residential providers for home charging that are 100% renewable.

Then you've got to consider that producing petrol is very electricity intensive - the refineries have their own electricity substation (and you get no say where that electricity comes from, and how dirty it is). Then they need to transport the fuel to filling stations using tankers etc. Then, after all that, you very inefficiently need to burn the fuel in a combustion engine.

Then of course you need to consider that if there is any pollution caused by creating electricity, then it's not where you walk and your kids play in the towns and cities, unlike combustion entines.

If you're thinking about the life of batteries... I suspect the same battery will be going much longer than most combustion engines. It's not unreasable to expect a battery and motor to last half to a million miles. And then the batteries aren't scrapped, they're repurposed, and if you want you can swap in another battery.

And even if it wasn't for the fact that it's a lot cleaner than a combustion engine car, the performance is a huge step up. I was sad to let my 5.0 XKR go... but the i3 is just so much quicker, I've never looked back.

Edited by NeedToCharge.com on 09/07/2018 at 18:23

NeedToCharge.com    on 9 July 2018

As something of a petrol head, I switched to a bmw i3 and have never looked back. I can honestly not find a single reason to buy a diesel/petrol car. They're so much more expensive to own and maintain, and so much less reliable.

Don't judge all electric cars by a single make/model, just as I don't assume all combustion engine cars are the same as a robin reliant.

NickNike    on 12 July 2018

From 34k for a little thing like that? No thanks.

NeedToCharge.com    on 12 July 2018

Remember the government will give you £4,500 towards it, and then remember you don't have the costs of fuel, there's significantly less maintenance, they last longer, there's no road tax etc.

You can't just compare list price.

NickNike    on 12 July 2018

It's going to need some major step-changes in technology.

NeedToCharge.com    on 9 July 2018

Sorry - they were before my time - my first motor was a Fiat Uno at the ripe old age of 17. Not a petrol head car still I grant you, but never really saw any Reliant Robins on the road.

NickNike    on 12 July 2018

You still have to pay for solar cells and how much has the electricity cost you? You don't say. Still a lot of money for a small car..

soldierboy000    on 9 July 2018

This sort of thing would hinder the indivdual design of each vehicle and chassis.

NeedToCharge.com    on 10 July 2018

I think Renault is the only company that treats the batteries separately (and therefore you have to lease/buy it) - I don't think any others do. In my mind, treating it separately makes no sense at all - they're just adding complexity.

Electricity costs are pretty easy to work out. My i3 does around 120 miles on average of a full charge, and it's about 28 kWh battery, and my electricy company when charging at home charge me 12p/kWh, so that's 28 x £0.12 = £3.36 for a full charge from empty to cover on average 120 miles, or 2.8p/mile. If you're doing 8,000 miles a year, that would be around £224 if you charge only at home.

In reality though I charge when I go to the supermarket, or when I park the car, and that's usually free, so it would be a lot less than that.

A 40mpg car would require 200 gallons to drive 8,000 miles, which is 909 litres. With disel at around £1.30/litre, that's £1181 a year. That would get you over 35,000 miles in an EV.

Then consider all the tax benefits, and the fact that there's a lot less maintainance - there's no gears so no transmission to go wrong, rarely if ever have to replace brake disks/pads, no congestion charge, vehicle tax etc.... and above all that, it's a lot of fun to drive.