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BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Word of warning to anyone considering one of these, make sure you ask and get confirmation that the cars are to full 2003 UK spec and not just German spec in RHD.

If the dealer has ordered them to UK spec there shouldn't be a prob but forewarned is forearmed and all that!
BMW's direct from Germany advert - T Lucas
Does it make a difference?
BMW\'s direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
[strike 2]
BMW's direct from Germany advert - SjB {P}
Watching the Watcher very carefully, unless my eyes are deceiving me, I see a nice cunning way to get round the word filter! ;-)

Very neat.

/Steve

BMW's direct from Germany advert - Paul Mykatz-Tinks
"Very neat."

Nah......just posh spelling.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - T Lucas
Yes but i always work on the principle that if im stupid enough to buy it somebody else out there will be just as stupid.If its the right colour with fancy enough wheels most punters could not care less if it was to UK spec or Nigerian spec (if there is such a thing).Remember when selling anything,cars included,they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it,not what some nobber writing a monthly guide says it should be worth.Can i order a new BMW with a huge petrol engine,21 inch wheels,probably silver but with wood effect seats?Try and find that in Glasses Guide.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
If that principle works for you, then that is fine. But others don't work to that principle.

I take issue with you saying most people don't care whether a car is UK spec or not. Actually research shows they do insofar that they will pay the same price for an import to UK spec but wont pay the same price if the car doesn't match UK spec.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - SteveH42
I was told by a Toyota dealer that I would have great trouble trading in an import Yaris as no dealer would touch it, and I'd also have trouble getting warranty support. I suspect he was trying to get me to buy one from him at an inflated cost, but how much of this is true?
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Unfortunately this is typical garbage spouted by UK dealer's to put you off buying a car from Europe.

The warranty on a European sourced import car, whether a Toyota or Rover or BMW etc, must by law be acted upon by a franchised dealer throughout Europe. Any repairs covered by the warranty MUST be undertaken free of charge. No if's or but's allowed, it is the law.

Further, Toyota are one of the few manufacturers who supply a full manufacturer's backed 3 year warranty on any of their cars sold in Europe and imported to the UK. This means you get virtually the same cover as on a UK car.

Once again I state, the trade journal say if an imported car has the same spec as a UK sourced car, it should have the same trade in value as the UK sourced car. However, unscrupulous UK franchised dealer's offer lower trade in values on imports because YOU saved money. The best bet if you want to trade in (but why?) is to trade in at a non franchised dealer or a franchised dealer but not for the make of import you have ie don't try and trade in an import Toyota with a UK Toyota dealer.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - Flat in Fifth
"Unfortunately this is typical garbage spouted by UK dealer's to put you off buying a car from Europe.

The warranty on a European sourced import car, whether a Toyota or Rover or BMW etc, must by law be acted upon by a franchised dealer throughout Europe. Any repairs covered by the warranty MUST be undertaken free of charge. No if's or but's allowed, it is the law."


Tell that to that poor guy who couldn't get a Shytner Group garage to honour a MB signature warranty on a car they had sold with the warranty because it turned out to have come from Ireland.

Pah!

BMW's direct from Germany advert - Flat in Fifth
Oops sorry Frank, Typo....... honest!
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
You don't say how old the MB car was and when it was bought as this does have a bearing on the length of warranty on the car. Prior to 01.01.2002, most imported cars from the EU had a one year manufacturer's warranty. Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Subaru gave a 3 year manufacturer's warranty.

The only way an MB UK garage could legally refuse the warranty work on the MB from Ireland is if the car had a one year warranty and the car was over one year old when submitted for warranty work. This is often a point overlooked by people who are the second buyer of an import.

If the car was under a year old even with a one year warranty OR the car was imported new on or after 01.01.2002 and they still refused to honour the warranty, then he should have taken them to court because the law is VERY clear on this issue. Having sold a car with a warranty, they cannot just withdraw that warranty either.

I should also point out that if he failed to have the car serviced in accordance with the warranty conditions, this would have invalidated the warranty too.

BMW's direct from Germany advert - wemyss
I should also point out that if he failed to have the car serviced in accordance with the warranty conditions, this would have invalidated the warranty too.
Watcher.. Am I correct in thinking that a court ruling possibly by the EU regarding warranties excluded any insistence by main dealers that servicing must have been carried out by main dealers.
I know this is not what your'e saying above but have read of such inconsistencies from others.
alvin
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Alvin.

Part of the EU investigation into car price fixing in the UK came up with a number of remedies. On the ending of the block exemption system which manufacturers use to maintain artificially high UK prices, car buyers will be free to have their cars serviced away from main dealers WITHOUT invalidating their warranty.

Ending of block exemption is being done in 2 stages since some EU Governments claimed it would 'hurt' their car makers. Yes, really!

I haven't read HJ's comments infull but unfortunately he is wrong in this instance. However, you cannot yet take your car to a non franchised dealer for a servic without invalidating your warranty and suggest no one does it. The change is scheduled to come in around 2005 if memory serves me right.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
No not really HJ. I only said I hadn't read the comments in full,ie beginning to end, not that I hadn't read them.

And besides, I know what the EU ruling on this matter regarding servicing at non franchised dealers & warranty issues is.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
HJ I think we are getting our wires crossed here. Im not suggesting the cars in the advert DON'T match UK spec.

The original post was merely to point out to people that they should confirm for themselves the cars do match UK spec. Otherwise, people buy cars on the basis they cost less than the UK versions alone. When they come to sell them, they find they are worth a lot less than a UK spec'd import.

Hope that clears any misunderstanding.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - Flat in Fifth
It was discussed on a thread back in Technical in Sept.

To cut a long story short salient points were.

posted by bsw under Mercedes warranty

"A year ago I bought a 10 month old ML 270 from an official Merc. dealer...."

"The V5 did not state that it was imported and an HPI check said it was not imported. The invoice stated that it had the balance of the manufacturers 3 year warranty as did a letter from the dealer thanking me for the business.

Last week I took it my local dealer ..... for a service and a minor warranty job. He informed me that according to the Merc. computer system it was an import and not covered by any warranty and that it would only have had 12 months warranty from the date of manufacture - not first reg."


Wondered at the time why you didn't comment on that thread Watcher as it seemed evidence that regardless of the legality of the situation dealers were in practice weaseling out of their responsibilities on imports.

I still maintain that I would like to see the result of a formal complaint on this to DG CCE in Brussels. Bet MB would pooh themselves.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
I didn't comment on the above because I don't recollect seeing it. D'oh! If I had, I would have posted exactly what follows below.

The facts appear in this case to be unusual in that the car (really being an import) only had a 12 month manufacturer's warranty although it was assumed to be a UK car at the time of sale to this buyer. As an import, it would only have a 12 month warranty, a fact I have stated in this and other threads.

As the vehicle was imported BEFORE 01.01.2002, the year warranty was correct and the MB dealer was correct under the terms of his dealership not to carry out repairs foc since the warranty had expired.

However, as the car was sold supposedly as a UK car with a 3 year warranty, the buyer should either have been recompensed for buying a car which was clearly not what he thought or, be offered a goodwill gesture by the dealer.

At the very least, he should have been refunded some money by the dealer as the supposed remaining 2 year warranty would be built into the sale price. The dealer could (although Im not surprised they didn't) have offered a year's extension or other goodwill arrangement.

The problem here is not that the dealer wouldn't honour the warranty per se but that the car DIDN'T legally/ethically/morally have a 3 year warranty when sold and as such, that is a completely different issue.

To use this as an example that dealer's 'weasel' out of warranties is disengenuous imho.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - T Lucas
Oh dear,im in trouble,i get my Yaris from Japan(called a Vitz)what will the Toyota dealer make of that?
BMW's direct from Germany advert - Armitage Shanks{P}
This is just dealer rubbish talk isn't it? ALL Yaris s are imports aren't they? They are built in France! Some German cars aren't even built in Germany. I think 3s are built in South Africa and there are build quality concerns.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
My 320 D SE import was built in Germany. Many other cars as you suggest are built throughout Europe and many of these imports are built on the same production track as cars being built for UK dealers!

70% of new cars sold in the UK are built in Europe yet you will pay significantly more for the UK dealer car. 100% of those cars are imports yet a UK dealer will tell you your UK spec import isn't the 'same' as his!

All Yaris' are built or will be built in France etc. The list is endless and as dealers know they are losing the war on imports, they resort to dirty tricks and misinformation.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - madman
I think the dealer will tell you that european cars are not up to UK spec but half the time the German spec is much higher!
I nearly bought an Astra diesel a few years back at a price of about 22,000 DMs, when I asked the Opel dealer about a RHD equivelent it turned out to have a much higher spec at 16,000 DMs.
I believe the safety features will be the same or better (EU harmonisation) but continental drivers tend to expect much more equipment in their cars.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
The point is, if you ARE buying an import from a European dealer, you spec it to UK specs so there is NO difference. In many Euro countries, they have standard equipment which is extra in the UK. ie in Holland, their Zafira's come with cruise, technical pack and luggage restraint at which were all extras when I bought mine back from Holland. Even adding what was required to make it UK equivalent (it even has Vauxhall badges) saved me over £4k!
BMW's direct from Germany advert - Blue {P}
One reason that you would need your car to UK spec that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned is insurance, if you can't tell them that the car is to full, identical UK spec then they can get a bit funny.

Strange example here, the Nissan Micra is built along the road in the Sunderland/Washington plant, it is more expensive at the local dealer than Trade-Sales used to sell them after the cars had been exported from the country and then re-imported! The dealer was just a 10 minute drive from the factory!
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Right on both points.

Unless there is a substantial difference in spec, for example such as traction control or some other major item etc, the insurers wont be that bothered.

Disco's were another example of the UK price lunacy. The same car built at the relevant UK factory to UK spec and shipped to Holland for a UK buyer to bring back was fairly recently around £5k less than if you went to the Landie dealer just down the road from the factory!
BMW's direct from Germany advert - wemyss
Watcher.
Who finishes up with the 5K in their pocket at the end of your example.
alvin
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Alvin.

Put it this way. Of the many people I know and have read about who have imported cars then sold them, very few of them lose all the savings when selling the car on.

HJ had an example of an imported X5 that sold at auction for above UK list for the same spec UK sourced vehicle. Many other people have actually sold their import for what they paid (or a little less)for it 12 to 18 months previous. Don't just take my word, read the many testimonials in Car Import Guide (now CarBuyer).

Ch 5's 5th Gear did a short piece on people selling their imports (they asked me to appear on it but given the short notice, I couldn't make the filming location) and all the people said they sold the car for almost what they paid AND the new buyer wasn't bothered that the car was imported.

The best way to LOSE your saving is to trade your import in at the same manufacturer franchised dealer in this country ie don't trade an import BMW in at a UK BMW dealer etc because they will mark the car down DESPITE it being UK spec. For the best price you sell private or trade in at an independent garage.

But why trade the car in when you can still make savings on imports?

If people want to believe the rubbish spoken by UK dealers about imports ie cannot get warranty support, the car will be made from cheaper materials, it is worth less than a uk car (whatever one of those is!), its made to a lesser quality etc, etc that is up to them. And, I should point out all the above excuses HAVE been used to deter people from importing.

I know when I come to sell my car that because of depreciation, that £5k saving will have reduced by maybe £2k - £3k. But it would have suffered that even if it was bought in the UK and I'll still be £2k - £3k up on the deal.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - volvod5_dude
Watcher,
Sounds good to me, I think I'll look at imports next time I buy a new car.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Just do your home work, investigate all the options including the very good offers on this site and any offers UK dealer may have on at the time.

Ensure you are comparing like with like. Once you get past the smokescreen put up by many UK dealers then, you can make an informed choice.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - wemyss
Watcher, I understand what your'e saying but my question was really to do with when the car is initially bought by the customer.
For instance your example of 5K saved by the initial purchaser.
Presumably Land Rover sell the vehicle to both UK or Continental dealers for the same price. Or do they???
If that is so does the extra 5K which the UK dealer charges for the same vehicle go in to his backpocket, or are there other hidden deals which we can't see.
At the end of the day the initial customer has paid 5K more than he should but who gets this actual money?.
alvin


BMW's direct from Germany advert - The Watcher
Alvin.

I understand what you mean now. No, the manufacturer doesn't sell the car to dealer's in different countries for the same price. That is the the point.

The usual arrangement goes like this.

Land Rover (as an example only) will produce a disco but due to different market conditions will add different specs for different countries. Therefore a car that has a lower spec compared to UK spec will cost less.

However, because of different tax regimes in different countries throughout europe, Land Rover will sell that car to the 9say Dutch) dealer for a price well below what he sells it to a UK dealer.

Example, the LR factory may sell a 'normal' UK spec disco to a UK dealer for £18k but he sells a similar vehicle with a slightly lower spec to a Dutch dealer for £10k. (These prices are only used to illustrate my point.)

So far so good.

Now, because the base price of the non UK spec disco is considerably lower than the UK version, by the time you add on extra options to make the Euro sourced Disco the equivalent to UK spec, you have still saved around £5k.

In short, the difference in price between what the manufacturer charges the UK dealer and what he charges the Euro dealer goes mainly to the manufacturer and is extra profit for him. It is unlikely the UK dealer will see any of this extra profit margin.

All the car manufacturers in Europe make 70% of their profits out of sales in the UK which account for 10% of all European sales. Makes you stop and think, doesn't it?

Hope that explains it.
BMW's direct from Germany advert - wemyss
Watcher, got it.....
70% of profit out of 10% of sales.
It certainly does make you stop and think.
It takes me back to when we voted to go into the Common Market as it was invitingly called some 30 years ago.
The enthusiasts at the time couldn't in their dreams have imagined a situation where not only could we export into a member state with no tarrifs imposed but we could then buy the same goods back at a cheaper price.
From the sublime to the....
If only we could keep repeating this process with the same item!!
alvin