Yep, as she's told her insurance company and no doubt given them your details, it's useless trying to hide it, however, if you don't make the claim then they probably won't load the policy anywhere near as much.
Also, is it not worth telling your employer about her actions with the file? If it was on computer then there will almost certainly be records of when your file was accessed and who by. I know that the acciednt wasn't her fault, but the way that she has behaved in getting it sorted seems bad, and I think getting a formal warning or even the sack for breach of data protection might teach her a lesson! :)
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Re: the cost of the work, the bodyshop she has got a verbal quote from will only give a written quote if you pay £25 (refundable if you get the work done there) so she doesn't have a written quote from there yet. She hasn't shown me the other two quotes she got though.
Re: the work needing doing, my colleague who used to work at this place has looked at it and doesn't think anything is wrong with it in the first place, and further says that even if the bumper is bowed in most cases they can heat it and it will return to shape. He has also had a replacement bumper on his Ford Galaxy fitted elsewhere (still an insurance approved place) for £200, so the price seems excessive anyway.
Re: Taking it through the insurance, while I am tempted, the extra cost will be considerably higher. Assuming the NCD goes 30,40,50,60,65%, no premium loading and a rise in premiums of just 5% a year, I'll still pay £629 extra over the next 4 years, assuming I don't need to claim again. If premiums go up more, or my premium is loaded due to this accident, I could be looking at over £1000 extra. In fact, my renewal next year could easily be £350 higher than it would be without a claim.
She's not in work this morning, so I can't find out what is going on, but I'll try and get some answers this afternoon, and if not then I think I'd best contact the CAB.
Oh, and as for whether I can trust her, I don't know. I never had much to do with her before, but as far as I'm aware I hadn't upset her or anything, so it is hard to understand why she has suddenly decided to cause me as much aggro as possible. I sort of assumed that unless you had any reason to make life difficult for someone, most people would at least try and help you out in these circumstances rather than insist on going for the most expensive possible solution...
Is there a limit to the number of quotes you have to get BTW? She was saying she only 'had' to get 2 quotes, implying she was doing me a favour by getting the third one. This to me sounds like she's been telling the garages it was an insurance job from the outset which of course will have increased the cost anyway...
I am tempted to say something about her accessing my records, but I'm not sure I could prove it, and anyway, I think getting her in trouble is likely to make things even harder for me!
Thanks to all who have replied.
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I know that if you run into the car in front it's automatically your fault, but if she's been rear-ended before it could suggest she's an overly-cautious, hesitant or erratic driver... Which I think are just as bad as the over-confident ones! You know the sort, seen several accidents in the mirror but never driven into one themselves. That's assuming she uses her mirrors.
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Unfortunately, she is (IMO) a poor driver. I've seen her doing some daft things before while following her, and someone else at work claims to have seen her doing 35 along the M60 in clear traffic. I do agree that over-cautious drivers can be a danger, but I suppose it is up to all drivers to take enough care to avoid accidents no matter what the other driver was doing. (Within reason of course!)
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Quick update on the situation:
I've finally got to talk to her, and apparently she has told her insurance about the accident and told them I will pay for the repair. They are going to take her car to have the damage assessed and will contact me to say how much it will cost to repair.
I'm slightly worried as to what this will mean. Will they get a reasonable price, and will I just have to pay for the repair, or for stuff like hire cars etc? I'm also wondering how this will affect her policy - is she claiming off hers, off mine or what? Surely Direct Line wouldn't get it repaired for her without adding something on to either my bill or her policy? If the bill turns out to be excessive, will I have the option to go through my insurance, or once I've said I'm settling it, will that be final? I'm willing to pay the £350 if I must, but can't afford more than that.
I also got another quote today (before she told me this) for £195+VAT to replace the bumper, although he said if it was just the bumper that was bowed, he could likely fix it, but would need to see the car. (Obviously)
I'm still at a loss as to why she felt the need to go through the insurance when I'd already agreed to pay for it. Granted I was trying to persuade her to go somewhere more reasonably priced, but at no point did I say I would do anything but pay myself.
Can I refuse to accept the price from her insurance and insist she has it done privately if it comes to that?
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i would take issue wih the claim that if you run into the back of someone it is always your fault.
generaly yes but not always. you cannot just stand on the brakes for no reason if there is a car behind. that is careless or even dangerous driving! remember mirror signal maneuver?
and as for travelling at 35mph on the motorway that is obstruction and also illegal. thats why tractors and mopeds are banned.
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There is probably a combination at work.
For example, my daughter ran into the back of a car on her scooter this morning.
Scenario:
Pedestrian at or on Zebra (not sure which at the moment).
Car sees pedestrian and stops sharpish.
Car driver does not check rear view mirror.
Road is wet.
Daughter travelling too close.
Daughter has not looked beyond car for potential hazards.
Skid: Bang.
You could blame the pedestrian for crossing without regard to traffic, the car driver for not slowing progressively on approaching crossing with pedestrian but then braking hard, or daughter for driving too close and not looking further ahead.
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Hope you're daughter is OK, it sounds nasty.
Unfortunately the insurance companies will likely blame your daughter as they'll say that she should have left a big enough gap to stop in time if the car in front were to stop sharply. :(
Steve, your best bet now may be to ask your insurance compnay about the likely outcomes of making a claim, ask whether they will load your premium regardless seeing as they know about it.
If they say that they will load it anyway, and they probably will, then ask whether they will load it a lot more if you make a claim rather than pay yourself. If they're gonna load it anyway, which they probably will now, then it may be worth just letting the insurance company pay for it.
It sounds as though this woman could do with a good...er... talking to for making such a mountain out of what should have been a straightforward situation. If she'd just kept her mouth shut instead of going to the insurance company then you could have her car booked in and paid for it to be fixed by now!
BTW, if she starts claiming for whiplash etc. or even hire cars then you can just refer them to your insurance company for the whole bill, you've paid them to insure you against a third party claiming against you, and they have to honour it.
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I don't actually have a phone number for my insurance company, just the broker I arranged it through. Will they be able to give me the same answers? Also, I have written direct to the insurance company rather than the broker - is this the correct approach?
The only trouble with going through the insurance if they are going to load it regardless is that means I'll be paying even more extra... How much do they tend to load premiums anyway? And would another company load it as well?
Her main excuse for going to the insurance was that it had taken too long to get a result. The only reason it had taken so long was that she took ages to go this bodyshop for a quote! I'd have happily paid the £150 she was quoted from the garage, but as the two gave different opinions, we thought a third opinion would be worthwhile, but she insisted on going to this particular bodyshop rather than the one around the corner from work... I object to paying £350 for a £200 job, but I'd rather do that than pay that much next year extra for my insurance and as much again over the next few years. There are plenty of other things the money would be much better spent on. Further, the only reason I went ahead and bought a new car was that I thought she was prepared to settle outside of insurance - had I known she was intent on costing me as much money as possible, I would have waited before buying the car...
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But whatever, you should be travelling at a safe distance behind so you can stop in time
So it's always your fault.
Sorry!
Terry
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Is she blonde...?
Sorry, I'm not being much help here, I know, I can imagine how frustrating it is when someone like this makes a simple task 10 times more difficult for you.
I was always taught to think that EVERYONE else on the road is an idiot, unless they can prove otherwise.
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still disagree terry. it is not always your fault if you collide with the vehicle in front.
an example is what happened to me this morning. pulling up to traffic lights in land rover with off road tyres and a guy in a brand new 307 decides that my lane would be quicker; as i would have been "in pole position". so with feet to go he cuts me up and brakes hard. if i hadn't had some braking "in reserve" i would have pushed his bumper in. tempting to do so anyway as it was puring with rain - lost traction officer honest. when the lights change he roars of and cuts up the car in the second lane because that lane now looks faster.
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That obviously wouldn't have been your fault, but that involves the guy changing lanes right into you.
If you are just looking at the situation where you are following a vehicle in one lane, and you then somehow hit that vehicle then of course it is always your fault, as no matter what happens in front of them you should be prepared to stop in time even if they were to slam their anchors on unexpectedly...
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That obviously wouldn't have been your fault, but that involves the guy changing lanes right into you. If you are just looking at the situation where you are following a vehicle in one lane, and you then somehow hit that vehicle then of course it is always your fault, as no matter what happens in front of them you should be prepared to stop in time even if they were to slam their anchors on unexpectedly...
I agree. There is no justification for assuming the vehicle in front won't slam on the brakes for a reason you didn't see. And because they could always do it for a valid reason that you can't see, you can't claim any excuse if they do it for what turns out later to be no reason at all. The only exception I can think of is if you hit the back of a vehicle with no working brake lights. If someone cuts in front and slows down before you've had a chance to adapt your following distance, that can't be your fault.
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If someone cuts in front and slows down before you've had a chance to adapt your following distance, that can't be your fault.
Are you sure of this? I had an incident about 5 years back where someone pulled in to my lane close infront of me on the A1 while going slower than me, and almost straight away braked hard for no obvious reason. I'd backed off to increase the gap when he pulled in, but hadn't realised he was braking so hard (it was tipping down as well) and hit him, plus was rear-ended by the car behind me. Insurance didn't even give me the chance to contest his claim saying that the only way it would be his fault was if he was convicted of dangerous driving.
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>> If someone cuts in front >> and slows down before you've had a chance to adapt your >> following distance, that can't be your fault. Are you sure of this?
Steve
Common sense and what the insurance company says are not necessarily the same I suppose. It sounds like you should not have been found at fault but once the insurance company has spoken, what can one do?.
Their claim that "the only way it would be his fault was if he was convicted of dangerous driving" presupposes that all cases of dangerous driving are prosecuted. Since prosecuting dangerous drivers cost money rather than generating it .... etc.
GJD
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Nasty: sounds almost like the mythical? "accidental on purpose" events aimed at getting whiplash gelt! But as usual you can rely on the insurance companies to take the easy way out! For them - just add it to the next general increase. Only way out is to take proceedings for uninsured losses: CSMA have done this for me, on one occasion v. successfully. However, it all depends on having some evidence. For this reason I always carry a disposable camera, with flash. Unless my offspring borrow it. Which reminds me.....
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"The only exception I can think of is if you hit the back of a vehicle with no working brake lights."
Not sure that would work as an excuse either, surely the brake lights are there as an aid to your observation, not as a substitute.
In any case, with so many vehicles having only one brake light working and the other maybe out of your line of vision it is a mistake to rely on brake lights anyway.
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"Not sure that would work as an excuse either, surely the brake lights are there as an aid to your observation, not as a substitute."
If you were looking in your mirror, you might not notice the vehicle ahead slowing down if its brake lights were out. In the half-second your eyes were not looking straight ahead you could be too close to avoid colliding if it now braked very hard. In that situation I would say the following driver is not at fault.
But since the situation is a tad contrived (though by no means impossible) I expect it would be very difficult to prove so I wouldn't like to rely on it in practice.
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Look at it from her point of view.
You have damaged her car. She is entitled to a first class repair. £350 is a bargain to avoid the insurance claim.
However you can't avoid the insurance totally.
You won't loose any ncb if you claim but will still be loaded for the accident, just as she will be (even for non fault)
I get the impression she was frightened you would do a "runner" by "obtaining" your details. You should have given her full details anyway. It is the law.
If it was my car I would want the most expensive quote as well. Wouldn't you?
If I was her I would have gone straight to the insurance once you started aksing for lots of quotes. Just as she did.
No offence, just my opinion.
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I'm prepared to pay for a good quality repair, but not pay over the asking price for it. If a number of insurance recognised garages will do it for £200-£250, why should I pay £350? But even then, as I say, I was prepared to pay it, but she didn't give me the option, but went straight to the insurance after getting the quote without giving me the chance to pay it.
It's a bit hard for me to do a runner when we work in the same place! I was more than prepared to give her details if she asked for them, but as we work together I didn't think it was too important to go out of my way to do so - she seemed happy to resolve it independently of the insurance and could have asked me for any details she wished at any point when we were at work.
I would only take the most expensive quote if I had some reason to want to screw the other person. I know that as long as the place is a member of a recognised body I have as much chance of getting a good job done as anywhere else. In fact, someone else at work has had bad experiences of this place she was insisting on going to!
She didn't go to the insurance when I started asking for lots of quotes as you put it. She went without even telling me what this bodyshop had said and without telling me exactly what price they had said. At first she said £350, today she said it was going to be between £300 and £350, but as she doesn't have a written quote how am I supposed to know what I should be paying! At the point she went to the insurance, the only quotes under consideration where the three she had got.
Oh, and I will lose some of my NCB - I don't have enough to protect it so I assume I'll go down from 3 years to 1.
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You will only loose ncb if you claim.
The fact you asked for the quotes probably made her want to avoid hassle and go to her insurance.
Remember this is your problem not hers.
Personally I would pay £350 in exchange for a letter absolving me of any further responsibility and count myself lucky.
I see your point about the cost of the repair. But you are wrong about human nature. Most people would want the maximum cash and not consider it "screwing."
Her car has been in an accident (ok it has been before in this particular case) and therefore will not be worth the same resale value. Plus she now has increased premiums because of you.
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I assume you mis-typed when you said:
> You won't loose any ncb if you claim but will still be loaded for
> the accident, just as she will be (even for non fault)
She got two quotes within 3 days of the accident. It happened on October 15th. She had all the time between then and last Friday to go to her insurance if she wanted to, but waited until she had this latest quote. Why? If she was prepared to get this quote, why not give me the opportunity to pay it?
As I say, I'm prepared to pay the £350 to avoid going through insurance. She won't accept this and is insisting her insurance handle this. She only told her insurance about the accident after this last quote, she if she'd accepted the money and got the work done then she wouldn't have needed to tell the insurance and suffer higher premiums. (Ok, so legally she would, but the damage was so minor that most people wouldn't bother)
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oops.
You have to report an accident whether you claim or not.
If you report a fault accident then they load your premium (no idea how much by unfortunately)
If you report a non-fault accident then thay load your premium.
If you claim then you loose ncb as well just to compound things, Double penalty :(
Even if she goes through her insurance, her company will persue you for the money. You can then pass the matter onto your insurance company or pay.
Bet they add for a courtesy car though.
Wonder if her insurance company will add their costs?
Maybe she never bothered getting the third quote. Who knows? Something does sound fishy.
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I think Mark(RLBS) explained this business of loadings causing premiums to rise regardless of NCD some time back.
Went along the lines of:-
Premium (no loading) =£1000 NCD=60% Premium payable £400
Premium + 10% loading = £1100 NCD=60% Premium payable £440
Net increase £40 without losing any NCD.
This was in answer to someone who had claimed but had protected NCD and was surprised when his next premium still went up, the loading was added because he was now seen to be a bigger risk having been involved in an accident regardless of blame.
Sorry to hear of all your grief Steve but I learnt the hard way years ago to bite the bullet and let the insurers deal, these things rarely end with both parties friends and it is sometimes wise to have a third party(ies) in between to blame.
Had a scrape in a car park and knocked a guys wing mirror off its mounting, cleanly, but it needed a new one. He said he would replace it if I paid, no problem. He gave me the bill, I paid plus a little for his inconvenience and the fact he was fitting it. A week later he was round demanding £250 to get his door resprayed because the screwdriver slipped while he was fitting the mirror, when I said in that case we'd better put the whole thing through my insurers he turned violent and assaulted me starting a saga that went on for nearly two years. Believe me, sometimes it is just better to exchange details and let the insurers deal.
Just hope you get it all resolved soon.
Cockle
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Premium (no loading) =£1000 NCD=60% Premium payable £400 Premium + 10% loading = £1100 NCD=60% Premium payable £440 Net increase £40 without losing any NCD.
That's what I thought, but what would a typical loading be? 10%? 25%? Assuming my premium would be £800 (it's a bit under that this year, but allow for the normal increase) then I'd be paying:
10% loading, no claim (60% NCD): Premium £880, payable £352
25% loading, no claim (60% NCD): Premium £1000, payable £400
10% loading, claim (30% NCD): Premium £880, payable £616
25% loading, claim (30% NCD): Premium £1000, payable £700
So the difference between not claiming and claiming will be at least £264 and as much as £300 next year alone, plus a similar amount the following year, and again over the next two years combined. That money has to come from somewhere!
Sorry to hear of all your grief Steve but I learnt the hard way years ago to bite the bullet and let the insurers deal, these things rarely end with both parties friends
Well, yes, I can't really see us getting on well now, after all this hassle. If her insurance (or she herself) insist on assessing the damage theirselves and repairing it then I don't think I'll have any option, as I can see their bill being considerably more than the £350 she has been quoted by the time you add their costs and her expenses to the cost of the repair.
Your experience does sound worse in many ways though. I can't actually see how he could possibly bill you for damage he caused, but all that pales in comparison with an assault. Did it work out well in the end?
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Thanks for your concern, Steve.
Luckily it was only cuts and bruises, I'm not exactly a small chap myself, just allergic to violence unless absolutely necessary, so was able to extricate myself without too much damage.
It took so long to sort out because he did a disappearing act and once the police found him the wheels of justice grind exceedingly slowly.
Basically he never got another penny from me or the insurers but he got a fine and a community order from the JP's.
Fortunately I can't see your situation getting to fisticuffs but the stress is probably more than enough.
Cockle
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You mean even after his little offence he still tried to claim from your insurers? Or did he just give up?
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>>Not sure that would work as an excuse either, surely the brake lights are there as an aid to your observation, not as a substitute.
In any case, with so many vehicles having only one brake light working and the other maybe out of your line of vision it is a mistake to rely on brake lights anyway.
In that case, the car would not be in a roadworthy condition. It should be very easy to persuade the police to press charges, which would also make a claim that the accident was not your fault (had the lights been operational you would have noticed it was stopping).
Afterall that is the reason why brake lights are part of the MOT.
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But whatever, you should be travelling at a safe distance behind so you can stop in time So it's always your fault.
Terry, I take it you've read this thread from the start?
I agree that it's SteveH42's fault, but what would you say would be a safe distance to travel behind someone that has just moved off then stopped again for no apparant reason?
Hesitant drivers are every other drivers nightmares.
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Unfortunately although she can't force you to use your insurance company, it may just be the easiest way out. 'Cos whatever happens you're gonna have to declare this regardless.
The only nice thing about it is that she will have to declare this as well for the next 3 years, but her company probably won't up her premium. I was the car in front recently and have been told that the claim won't affect my insurance next year...
Don't know about the car behind though...
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I'm starting to think that as well. I'll be paying double what I would have been paying otherwise, but at least the amount will be spread out a bit.
Will her insurance do the assessment and get a quote without my insurance details, or will they wait for my response before they take it any further? She has supposedly said I'll pay the claim so it seems a bit odd that they are going through the assessment and quote procedure as well - it sounds as if they are expecting my insurance to pay up. And anyway, surely if she is claiming off my insurance, it's up to them to get the work done?
It's more than a tad annoying that such a minor incident that would cost under £200 to fix at any reasonable bodyshop is going to end up costing me so much when I already pay fairly high insurance to begin with.
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I had someone run in the back of me at a red light and my insurance company paid out, as the other person was disabled, was claiming whiplash, and the insurance co felt that if they took it to court, they would be seen in a bad light!
How daft is that?
I wasn't too worldly aware back then and didn't think to ask if it would affect my premium. It didn't, but when applying for new insurance now I have to answer "Yes, a successful claim was made against me"!
Does anyone know if I could have asked my insurance company not to pay out?
My car suffered just a scratched bumper while their Motability car, a Ford, totally concertenered.
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>>I suggest that you pass it all over to your insurance company, and at next renewal date shop around to reduce your premium. The car insurance market is once again fighting for business and insurers will undercut your renewal
I heartily concur.
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