How many 'spanners' are you? - OldSock
As some of you will be aware, more recent Haynes manuals now include a 1 to 5 'spanner rating' for each maintenance/repair job.

So how would you rate your own level of 'spanner competence' when it comes to repairing cars?

I'll allow a sixth "what's a spanner?" category, if that helps :-)
How many 'spanners' are you? - Robin Reliant
Thirty years ago I would have considered myself a comfortable three spanners on cars, four on motorcycles. On todays' overcomplicated vehicles I would rate no higher than an optimistic screwdriver on cars, though probably still a three spanner on bikes.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Wee Willie Winkie
Somewhere between nought and zilch, I would think.....
How many 'spanners' are you? - Chris S
30 years ago Haynes manuals contined clear line drawings. Nowdays they contain photographs taken from angles that aren't accessible when the component is in the car.

They also used to contain comprehensive information on one model, nowdays they're padded out with generic drivel. No wonder your 'spanner rating' has fallen.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Saltrampen
2 -3 In the summer, 1 -2 in the winter as have no garage.
- Totally agree Chris S, a close up of a bolt on a bit of bit of metal tells me nothing!
Also it is obvious that some photos must have been taken with the wing completely removed, which means it is easy to get all sorts of tools onto the part concerned.
A section on "what if this part is rusted solid and covered in crud" would help...

Edited by Saltrampen on 29/10/2008 at 13:37

How many 'spanners' are you? - JH
Sorry Chris I don't agree. My experience of Haynes manuals from many years ago was that you got a close up photo of a nut you had to unfasten. Where the dickens it was on the car you had work out for yourself.

oh - nul spanners! I got put off at an early age!

JH

Edited by JH on 29/10/2008 at 19:12

How many 'spanners' are you? - TheOilBurner
I'm usually a little over-confident and assume I can do 4 spanner jobs, until I screw them up!

Wouldn't ever touch a 5 spanner job, although most such jobs are now curtailed in the Haynes manual to "see a dealer"...

OTOH, sometimes Haynes will list something like dropping the headlining as a 4 spanner job and it turns out to be very easy, but just time consuming and then they'll list a brake pad change as a 3 spanner and it turns out to be initially quick but easy to mess up and spend hours trying to put it right!
How many 'spanners' are you? - Alby Back
Not sure really but my wife has often accused me of being a "complete" spanner.....

;-)
How many 'spanners' are you? - DP
Happy to tackle a "3", and I have done the odd "4" (mostly timing belts) but I will read up thoroughly first.

I've had a "2" take me a whole day when a bolt snapped, and I've achieved "4"s in an hour. The rating should only be taken as a guide, and your toolkit, working environment , experience, and the state of the affected components on your particular car are all equally important factors in determining whether to tackle a job.

ISTRC Ka spark plugs are a 2 for example. That should stand for 2 days!

Cheers
DP
How many 'spanners' are you? - martint123
4 or 5. Happily changed my mx5 clutch on my own, but chickened out on little brothers Ka clutch after close inspection. (looked far too cramped for my liking).
How many 'spanners' are you? - madf
-3
I have changed clutches and engines and sorted electrics but I am so slow as I usually get it wrong first time...


Edited by madf on 29/10/2008 at 13:05

How many 'spanners' are you? - Badwolf
I'm very definitely a 'no spanners' type of chap. I would, however, award myself a '5 multi-purpose adjusting tool' score... If in doubt, give it a clout!

Cheers
How many 'spanners' are you? - jase1
1 or 2 -- mainly due to cowardice / laziness ;)

Plus, on recent cars I've had Haynes manuals simply haven't existed, and downloaded workshop manuals are often written in such a way that I can't work them out.

Tend to be more confident with electrics than oily bits.
How many 'spanners' are you? - oilrag
I would give Haynes manuals themselves one spanner. (a low contrast, black and white spanner made of oil absorbent paper)

A new Haynes manual is out for the Mk2B Punto - (been looking forward to it) - it excluded the diesel models. (That`s the very popular 1.3 Multijet, how long can that be seemingly ignored, across model ranges)

By contrast I was looking at a range of French manuals in a Calais hypermarket. (name forgotten)
Diesel engines included and on glossy oil resistant paper.

What I can`t understand is why the manuals don`t have diagnostic fault finding, using the currently available DIY priced, OEBD diagnostic tools.

How hopeless for a DIY motorist is that, currently? - while still showing `rod and block` level strip downs, seemingly as though it were the 1950`s and a common task.

Edited by oilrag on 29/10/2008 at 13:33

How many 'spanners' are you? - SlidingPillar
Not sure how many spanners as I don't use Haynes books these days.

Last one I bought was when I owned a 300i Discovery. Had to change the brake vacuum pump (cos it split the casing). According to the Haynes book it would take two people and I guess, about an hour. Being on my own and thinking this was ridiculous I rang the service department of a dealer. Following their easy instructions I did the whole job in about 10 minutes on my own.

Difference was, the dealers way was based on me understanding how the thing and the engine worked, whereas the Haynes instructions assumed no understanding other than knowing the name of the tool and the correct use of a spanner.
How many 'spanners' are you? - pendulum
I'm around a 3 spanner. The last job I did was a 3 spanner (cambelt kit) and involved fabricating some tools of your own, like a puller and a bracket to hold the tensioner plunger in. I bought an angle grinder and some sheet metal and I surprised myself. It's very satisfying to take on something big and manage to pull it off.
How many 'spanners' are you? - TheOilBurner
Aaargh, the dreaded F-word!! "Fabricate" As soon as I see that I run a mile, even if it was a zero spanner job!
How many 'spanners' are you? - Lud
I've removed, stripped to individual parts and then reassembled a rebored engine with new pistons, bearings and valve gear (but a simple engine, no wet liners or anything like that), then reinstalled it. I've changed front and rear wheel bearings, replaced clutches - one in the street, round the corner from where I live - and camshaft sprockets and chains and of course the odd cambelt. Decoking and regrinding valves. Changed the head gasket on my Plymouth in the street in Berkeley, California, and changed its radiator (complete with transmission fluid cooling matrix) for a second-hand one out of a Dodge in a junkyard in Cheyenne, Wyoming. The flanges were wrong of course but I cobbled it in comfortably using old license plates, very colourful. Done brakes a'gogo, and really hate it too. Virtually all these jobs singlehanded, nearly always in less-than-ideal conditions. I have even removed and fitted tyres to rims, but not tubeless ones of course.

Some people might think this makes me a good mechanic, but I am carp by proper professional standards (although not as carp as some alleged professionals) and slow with it, although only sporadically really stupid. And I have to say that it has all aged me a lot, and I am now quite reluctant to undertake anything. Don't understand electronic cars anyway. Past it. But one of the things I've noticed is that difficult looking jobs are sometimes easy and vice versa.

Call it three and a half spanners (semi-retd.).
How many 'spanners' are you? - cheddar
Reckon a good 4 spanners by Haynes standards, do I get a badge?
How many 'spanners' are you? - OldSock
Well, I'd certainly echo the comments about an increasing reluctance to tackle jobs as night length - and age - increase!

As a young, free and single guy in my 20s I wouldn't hesitate to pull an engine or strip a gearbox. No domestic commitments, and always some friends to call on for assistance. Fast forward 25 years and those mates have become as equally-domesticated as myself, and those 'it'll only take an hour' jobs occupy a whole weekend - much to the chagrin of SWMBO.

So I guess that's a 4½-spanner in spirit, but only 2½ in flesh :-)
How many 'spanners' are you? - billy25
Even though i rate myself as a Zero spanner-man now, I never needed a manual when i had the Prelude, it had it's own built in. The Bonnet pull was labelled "pull", the radiator cap stated "water", the engine oil dipstick was Yellow, and the gearbox dipstick Orange, if you weren't at least 5 spanner trained you couldn't touch anything else!

Billy
How many 'spanners' are you? - oilrag
My experience seems similar to Lud`s so I would also say 3.5

Problem is that motivation was 5 spanners in youth, now it`s down to around 1.5...

However, the van went through it`s first MOT yesterday to the comment "It`s mint and that grease on the sump is the best way to preserve it"



How many 'spanners' are you? - Rattle
I am a 1 spanner man. I can do electrics ok (I am a computer engineer) and messing about and testing sensors I find quite easy. Ask me to do an oil change and I will shy away. These jobs always end up being harder than you think.
How many 'spanners' are you? - L'escargot
In answer to the thread title, I've been told I'm one spanner short of a full set!
How many 'spanners' are you? - jc2
Years ago,I bought an Ex-WD staff car-I found in it the appropriate workshop manual-obviously written fo zero-spanner poeple.Place spanner"A" on nut "B"-pull. was a sample.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Bagpuss
In the past, I rebuilt engines, replaced the clutch in a Peugeot 104ZS (engine out job), overhauled various brake systems, rebuilt all the oily bits on an MG Midget, cured myriad electrical faults on french cars, so lots of spanners.

These days when I open the bonnet I get frightened. So no spanners.
How many 'spanners' are you? - paulb {P}
0.5 car (changing bulbs is about my limit, although have replaced things like speakers and electric window switches in the past), 0.75 motorbike (chain tension and that).

Anything more than that I leave to folks who know what they are doing. I know how all the bits work, just not how to take them to bits and put them back together again properly!
How many 'spanners' are you? - David Horn
3, but I loathe Haynes manuals.

"Gently prise" usually equates to "Snap off", followed by a scream of rage when you discover a concealed screw which simply holds the part on, and something whoever wrote the manual completely ignored.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Fullchat
Having been through the bangernomics stage in my yoof I became self taught. Once I settled into my career path and could afford more reliable machinery I did less and less but more and more on those belonging to penny pinching colleagues.
Started to compete in rallying and built and drove two cars - the ubiquitous Escort Mk II" and an Astra 16V. Maintained and became very good at fixing things in a hurry. Welding, bodywork and painting I can easily cope with.
The only thing that I have not attempted is a complete gearbox rebuild. I've done the strip down!
Now I don't seem to have the time or the inclination but if need must I have a go. Reliability and the requirements of warrantys means occasionally paying for someone else to do a job I could do better myself.
When the manuals suggest when you need a specialist tool that you go and see your dealer I have to laugh. "Can I borrow your widget extractor for the day please?" Some derivative of "Go away." would probably be the reply.
Rating? I still believe a good 4 (%%%%)
How many 'spanners' are you? - Robin Reliant
The trouble now is what used to be removable from under the bonnet now has to be dropped out from underneath, and cars seem to have got a lot lower than they used to be. Formerly simple two bolts and a couple of wires gadgets like starters and alternators need half the car removed before you can even see them, and working on concealed bolts while lying on your back in the wet (everything seems to wait till winter to go wrong) gets less attractive when one reaches that comfortable age.
How many 'spanners' are you? - spikeyhead {p}
I don't do much these days.

When I do I'll borrow a car dealer mates garage at the back of his lot. There's two other mechanics in the same yard so when I need a special tool or some advice its close at hand. I can also get them to do work at trade rates so that's a disincentive to do the more complex tasks.

I've never had an engine fail and the only clutch I've ever needed changing was on an Imprezza Turbo and I left that to someone else but I'd happily tackle most jobs.

I'll guess I'm somewhere around four spanners but rarely do much that's beyond two these days.
How many 'spanners' are you? - TheOilBurner
cars seem to have got a lot lower
than they used to be.


Not always, our Zafira sits high enough up that if I park it half way into the garage (sloping driveway behind it) the front end is tipped up enough to change the oil easily without even jacking the car up!

Not much space under there, I'll admit, but just enough...
How many 'spanners' are you? - zookeeper
how many spanners does it take to change a headlight bulb?... depends on the car i think, most people use a haynes manual when they get stuck... try reading it first then apply the knowledge instead of getting stuck, in my experience of haynes manuals the grubbiest pages were for brake problems
How many 'spanners' are you? - Robin Reliant
A guy on a cycling forum has just related how he took his Toyota Avensis into a main dealer to have a blown headlight bulb replaced. They charged him £282!
How many 'spanners' are you? - vulcan7
Things change
At 12 I was a one spanner by sixteen I was a three, not much I could not do on a british motor bike with a bit of help from mum's oven. By twenty four was at five spanners and very cocky. Thirty five gone down to four spanners now, twenty odd years on just about one spanner. If only I had half the confidence I had at twenty !
How many 'spanners' are you? - PoloGirl
How many spanners are these worth...

Changing spark plugs, oil, oil filter and air filter,
Taking the door apart to find out why the window winder doesn't work,
Changing the brake pads,
Taking the vents under the windscreen apart to clear out all the leaves which were making water pour into the footwell.

Did all of that on my old Polo but wouldn't dream of doing anything more than checking the oil and water on the Golf, and I'd probably get told off by the leasing company if I did any of that - they even changed the wiper blades in the last service!
How many 'spanners' are you? - gordonbennet
Vulcan has just written my post.
Its more the electrickery that has me in a state of awe i suppose now.
I've tackled massive jobs in the past, full engine rebuilds, diagnose anything eventually.
Thats whats changed, years ago we knew whatever happened we could by the usual logical methods work through the electrical (usually) or fuelling (not so) system until we came upon the likely culprit and repair/replace the broken part.
Most systems could be bodge wired or by passed with a bit of bent coat hanger and jubilee clip to prove our theory before we splashed out on parts.

Now i'm like most here, i'll still maintain my vehicles meticulously, replace brakes and clutches (not on my own they're both auto) etc, and keep things as well as possible, but when my 12 year old MB blows its head gasket, or the hilux needs the cambelt changed, i shall be getting someone who knows what controls what to do those jobs.
I'm now too afraid of causing ignorant damage to the fragile ecu's etc, plus i wouldn't unless blatantly obvious have a clue how to diagnose faults anymore.

Once a confident 4+, now a poor 2-.

I wonder how many under 25's unlikely to have had our years learning on the simpler machines of years ago, by economic necessity mainly, would even qualify for 1 spanner.
How many 'spanners' are you? - 1400ted
They charged him £282!
A friend of mine had a dip beam go on his top of the range Rover 75 Estate.
They charged him £650.00 !!! Fortunately he got it under warranty. I was chatting to a parts man at a Saab garage and related this to him...he said 'that's about what we charge'.......crazy or what ?
Ted
How many 'spanners' are you? - Rattle
And people wonder I like old Ford cars, a head lamp change on this old dog inc labour £10.

This why I am put of by modern cars, the servicing is just too pricey and complicated. When I have grown out of my Fiesta I would love to find a nice old Mondeo with FSH, new clutch with warranty, should be a good car. Also looking for the old 2.0 Primeras when I get some no claims.

However even on my Fiesta MK4 I can't get at anything, on my old MK3 things were so much easier to fix and I fixed several things:-

Temperature gauge sender
Wiring to the throttle position sensor
A great big rust hole in the bodywork - with body filler!
The piston rings - with stop smoke!

I sold it for scrap but I found out on the DVLA website that it was put back on the road for 3 months then scrapped again. Probably when they new onwer tried to use the winscreen wipers and crashed - they were hand tightened as I gave my mate my old arms which he still has.
How many 'spanners' are you? - jase1
> on my old MK3 things were so much easier to fix

A lot of this is down to safety equipment though, making items more difficult to access. The Mk3 Fiesta was poor in this regard, but had more space to work in the engine bay as a result.

An oft-forgotten point that, do you want safety or ease of access -- you won't get both easily. Headlights on the 5-star Megane are a case in point, as an extreme example.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Rattle
Yep this is quite evident in the doors, mine are a good 2" thick where my mates mk3 barely reaches 1" My 1.3 engine bay is also extremely crowded, where as my mates MK3 1.1 is empty you can see everything, I could almost feel confident to change a clutch on that you can see all the gearbox moutning bolts and everything. On mine all you see is loads of wiring.

Jase I think a balance is ok, my mechanic told me a nice story about the the new megane. This girl comes in with a cheeky grin asking for the brake pads to be changed he gave her a price and then give him this bulb you could also do this (she had a grin on her face) he said yeah no problem I know it as apart of the job at no extra cost. It took him nearly two hours to do! He said he will never make that mistake again! The girl did apparantly give him £30 extra and said Renault wanted £90 for the job.

There must still be some safe and fairly easy to fix cars out there.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Cliff Pope
I've fairly recently dismantled a gearbox and replaced a noisy bearing, and in the past I have dismantled and set up a back axle using engineer's blue to get the crown and pinion engagement correct. I suppose that makes me a 5, but only on old cars.
I'd never want to own a car where you couldn't see the engine because of its plastic cover, or couldn't swap a bulb in under a minute.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Robin Reliant
I'd never want to own a car where you couldn't see the engine because of
its plastic cover or couldn't swap a bulb in under a minute.

Neither would I. But unfortunately Cliff, unless we give up motoring before the old nails we now drive expire we won't have a choice.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Lud
Indeed RR.

Someone said the plastic covers above and below modern engines were for safety reasons. I don't think they are. They are for silencing and dust-excluding reasons, but have the added advantage that they stop the owner from even seeing the oily bits, let alone 'tampering' with them. The point of this aspect is to stop them from worrying their pretty little heads about why the damn thing isn't working properly and seek so-called professional help. When the professionals have reconnected the disconnected connector and bolted the cover back on they can blandly say whatever they like and send a bill of any size. All right for some, if they can cope with the moral black hole into which they are being tempted.
How many 'spanners' are you? - oilrag
I feel a bit more at ease with the plastic cover over the common rail, while I`m under the bonnet with the engine running. But you can reach the fuel and oil filter around the edge of it as well as the serpentine belt. The top of the cover houses the air filter too, so it has a use.

It comes straight off with just two fastenings anyway.

I did remove the under-tray on a previous car and cut big access hatches in it. But If I can`t force my way in to the regular service items the vehicle is not allowed into the `fleet`. ;)

How many 'spanners' are you? - Number_Cruncher
>>Someone said the plastic covers above and below modern engines were for safety reasons.

It was me - but, I said *partially* for safety reasons. Of course, the safest thing to do would be to lock the bonnets shut, and only issue keys to mechanics!

The odd thing is, modern engines have never been easier to work on, and have never needed less working on.

When they do need working on, they even have the good grace to sometimes store a relevant fault code to guide someone who's awake towards the problem. There was no golden age when cars were easier to fix, they've always needed someone who's technically able to diagnose and repair - the difference is that today, mistakes in diagnosis (which are just as common as they always have been) cost a lot more than they ever used to.

I find it difficult to read Cliff's post - someone who clearly knows his onions having rebuilt crown wheel and pinions, and is cowed by a plastic cover!

Perhaps to end their evil tyranny, the plastic covers should be "responsibly recycled".
How many 'spanners' are you? - Cliff Pope
>>
I find it difficult to read Cliff's post - someone who clearly knows his onions
having rebuilt crown wheel and pinions and is cowed by a plastic cover!

>>


I didn't really mean I was daunted by the plastic cover itself, more that its existence might be indicative of a general unfriendliness to DIY access.

Haynes manuals of cars I like say things like "use special tool number 12345 to extract the working parts, or make up a simple tool like this using a bit of angle iron and some spacers".

Also I like a car where you can get inside the engine bay for access.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Buster Cambelt
Zero these days, people pay me good money to do what I specialise in, I pay good garages to do what they specialise in.
How many 'spanners' are you? - Kiwi Gary
Back in the bad old days [ 1950's ] I was taught by Father up to about 4-spanner level, and went up to about 4.5 level in the 60's. From mid-80-'s, I have reduced to about half-spanner by having company cars on fully-maintained leases. I do, however, maintain my multi-spanner rating on the small non-electronic Italian diesel engine in my boat. I do have to surrender the unit injectors to a diesel shop if they need any work.