My wife's Ibiza (100bhp PD engine) has developed an annoying habit of cutting out intermittently and then proving difficult to start.
It first happened yesterday as she slowed down to turn into the garage where our Skoda Octavia was being serviced. I was therefore handily able to get one of the mechanics out with the fault reader but none showed up. Eventually it restarted with a bit of heavy throttle action.
It's happened again a couple of times this morning, same thing - it turns over perfectly well but takes four or five goes to restart and only with some revving. Anyone got any ideas as to what it might be? If it's pertinent the car has recently undergone a change in its pattern of usage from a 9 mile / 15 minute journey to and from work to a 2 mile 15 minute journey each way. Could this have had a negative effect?
Thanks
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Soupytwist !
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 13/10/2007 at 12:30
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I wonder if air could be getting into the fuel lines. You haven't just had the fuel filter changed, have you? If the fuel lines are made of clear plastic, you would see air bubbles travelling along them as the engine is running.
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i had similer with my old a4, as andyT suggests my problem was an air leak, mine was the leak off pipes between the injectors, quite a common thing on most diesels, it cost me £2 for some new fuel line from the factors and about 10 minutes to replace them
chris
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The PD engine has no external leakoff pipes. Depending on the year of your PD (please advise) the fuel filter may have a plastic "T" piece fitted to it containing a thermostatic valve. If you have had a filter changed recently, the two "O" rings may have been fitted incorrectly.
They are very nearly the same size and are consequently coloured blue and black to aid fitting. The blue one should be furthest away from the filter top. Remove the "Mickey Mouse" clip to check.
659.
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Thanks for the advice so far. It's an 02 Ibiza first registered 4th March 2002.
Fuel filter last changed in February this year, it had a cambelt change in August and rear disks / pads in September.
I'll have a look at the fuel filter later, is that the cylindrical thing on the left of the engine with four pipes attached, near the coolant reservoir as you look at it with bonnet up?
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Soupytwist !
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'02 is the transition point for the PD fuel system cooling changes, but if your filter has 4 pipes going to it, it's the later type. It is located as you describe. Don't disconnect any pipes, just pull the clip and carefully lift out the "T" piece to check - it's fragile and becomes more so with age.
Re assemble with a light smear of ordinary grease on the "O" rings - this serves the dual purpose of aiding assembly and masking the effect of any leaks for a while which would aid diagnosis. It would be well worth making a more general check on the fuel system for possible leaks - the VAG hose clips are non too bright but work if they have not been over stressed or damaged.
The PD system is generally reliable so make a very careful check on the low pressure side before you delve too deeply. Avoid getting any dirt in the filter outlet connection (centre top of can). Never, ever use silicone grease for "O" ring assembly on diesels. It's insoluble in fuel and ends up in all kinds of undesirable places.
659.
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Thanks for that.
I think I'll only check round the 'T' piece and do as you describe - anything else is best left to people more expert than me.
And thanks for the tip about the silicon grease, I probably would have used some of that had you not said!
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Soupytwist !
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Did that, no better sadly. Drove it around and it seems to be being starved of fuel periodically as it gets to low revs. Leave it for a few minutes and rev it hard and it starts.
Strange thing is that it idles quite happily from cold on the drive - I did that for about 5 minutes before driving off, got 200 yards down the road, had to slow down for traffic and it cut out.
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Soupytwist !
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Time to get some codes read I'm afraid if you're sure the fuel system is OK. One other thing you could check - on some PD installations (including mine) there is a bad foul where the fuel inlet pipe to the tandem pump (the one which comes from the centre of the filter) frets on the undeside of the charge inlet pipe. My car has done 30k miles and the pipe was half fretted through.
This is very much installation dependent (mine has a NS engine) and yours might well be different. An air leak here would cause trouble though.
One other possibility is the engine speed signal. A code read will reveal this, but if it cuts out at low revs, the signal from the probe may be too low because it's not pushed right in. At higher speeds there is a greater rate of change of flux in the magnetic circuit and hence more output. This could explain cutting out at low revs (only).
The probe is at the flywheel end of the engine but "looks" at a toothed wheel inside the engine itself, adjacent to the No5 main bearing. Check that it's pushed right in.
659.
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I can't say for sure that the fuel system is OK, I drained a bit from the bottom of the filter and it certainly looks and smells like diesel with no visible contamination.
Funny you should mention fouling of the lines, the filter is right up against the side of the engine bay and in removing and replacing the filter you can't help but scrape one of the fuel lines against the metal of the engine bay. There's no visible hole or split but I suppose an invisible one would be enough.
I've no idea where the flywheel is or the No 5 main bearing but I'll do some research!
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Soupytwist !
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One thing I have noticed is that when I turn the key to start the engine the usual squirty noise from the fuel tank area is absent. I have always assumed that when you switch the ignition on (before actually trying to start) that this noise is the fuel pump squirting a bit of fuel along the system to aid starting - is there a fuel lifter pump? - but it seems absent at the moment.
Anyway I think I've reached the limits of my capabilities and I need to get someone to have a look at it.
Oh and thank to PU for putting the information in the the header, I thought that completing the drop downs was enough but it's not.
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Soupytwist !
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I think you may have reached the limit of unaided investigation with this problem.
There is no electric fuel lift pump on PD engines (Thank heavens - I hate the things). This function is performed by one half of the engine driven tandem pump. The "squirty" sound when you turn the "ignition" on is the ABS unit's electric pump pressurising the reservoir.
The earlier VAG diesels with the Bosch VE rotary pumps had an electric lift pump in the tank - this is probably where the confusion arises.
659.
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Just to bring this full circle, I took the car to my friendly neighbourhood VW specialist yesterday and lo and behold it refused to cut out at all on the way there. They took for it a drive and it wouldn't do it for them either so it's sat on the drive for over a week for no reason at all.
The last thing I did to it was drain some fuel out of the fuel filter but I didn't try driving it after that.
Fingers crossed it won't start playing up again.
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Soupytwist !
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Spoke too soon as far as this was concerned. As I was typing the last post on this thread my wife was on her way home from a night out, a journey she wasn't able to complete under her own steam. The car cut out completely on a piece of dual carriageway and refused to restart. She was towed home and the car recovered next morning to a reasonably local diesel fuel injection specialist which had been recommended by a local garage.
They eventually tracked down the problem to the fuel injection relay which had failed, the previous sporadic cutting out was evidently its death throes. Relay replaced for princely sum of £125 all in - I think they spent a fair while fault finding as well replacing the relay. I should have known it would be an electrical fault, the car's electrical systems haven't been great since the alternator failed about three and half years ago.
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Soupytwist !
Edited by Soupytwist on 31/10/2007 at 13:36
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my wife had the same problem with her leon! after £100's wasted it turned out to be the throttle body. I spent £70 having it cleaned and re programmed and its been fine since! not stalled once. But please be aware that a dealer will tell you that a new one is required but thats not the case! it can be cleaned for much less! Dealers wanted around £500 for a new one. Hope this helps ps please let me know how you get on, thanks adi
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I had a very simular fault with a 55 1.6TDI sport fiesta and that turned out to be the sensors on the noise pedle, gave them a clean and off it went! DAMB fly by wire!!!
It seems to be that cleaning contacts can solve alot of faults!!!
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I know its not a lot of help, But ive got a 09 100ps pd 1.9tdi ibiza that refuses to start in the cold, but when run, runs well! its going back in to the dealership on thursday, ill let you know if they find anything fuel related and let you know (it might be worth a look???) as they recon that the heating is fine!
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