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The other thing is that most garages don't bother with most of the servicing items. Brake fluid change, Sir? Coolant change, Sir? Cambelt, Sir? They never ask; you never know it's not been done. And it's there; every 2-3-4 years on the schedule.
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"Servicing is a lot of work, is usually messy (oil changes), and probably isn't worth doing if you haven't got a garage."
I have worked outside laying on the ground to get at things since 1962.
I use a suction oil extraction device though now,
my last car had a big undertray but I took it off and cut *access holes* wth a jigsaw.
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Lots of DIY still going on, but cars are more reliable and durable so decokes etc no longer required. I buy my own cars carefully and its a long time since I had to do any non-service work on my OWN cars, but see plenty that need work due to owner neglect or poor dealer servicing.
Youngsters (i.e anyone under about 30-35) don't seem keen to get their hands dirty nowadays. When I was younger we thought nothing of major engine rebuild work in a snow-covered yard. I remember changing a waterpump in a driveway in the middle of a hailstorm - was part and parcel of life. Lads now worry about getting their hair wet or breaking a nail - God knows what hormones are in those McDonalds burgers. I have had one or two of the local lads buy shiny bits and pieces from Halfords (e.g. simple things like gear lever knobs, that sort of thing) for their motors and ask me to fit them because they thought is was too difficult!
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"I remember changing a waterpump in a driveway in the middle of a hailstorm - was part and parcel of life"
Yes, Thats how it was for us.........normal. Sometimes we worked on cars at night laying on the ground in freezing conditions holding a torch in our teeth.
Remember doing a Minis handbrake cables like that.
No heating in the house at night too. Looks like its a generation thing then?
I`m not going to stop doing it until I can no longer grip a spanner :)
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I understand where you are coming from, I am 56 now and still like messing with cars, as long as it is a simple thing to fix. But boy does it knaker me up when i change oil, filter etc. But i still like to do it myself if i have the ability and knowledge to do so. Cheers, graham.
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My history is somewhat similar to yours, ie. model ?planes, trains, crystal sets et al, then an all-consuming tendency to take everything apart to see how it works. Many of our relatives and neighbours were doing all the servicing tasks you mention so it was part of life and these skills were gradually learnt. It always amazes me how in the First World War people from backgrounds such as blacksmithing and (horse) coachbuilding rapidly became skilled in aircraft and vehicle maintenance.
The same thing was true to an even greater extent after WW2. Millions who had never been anywhere near engineering suddenly found themselves doing it. It took many years for this effect to wear off.
Cars are easy to service today (my Sierra has done 175K miles with me doing everything. ie.not much. I?ve only ever replaced the wearing items, and not even the clutch. The oil filter on my MX 5 isn?t much fun though!)
Getting one?s hands and designer jeans mucky is naff today. I keep hearing on TV after another vandal outrage, ?there ain?t nuffin? to do ra?nd ?ere?. No interest in anything, especially getting your hands dirty. Until a few years ago I taught aircraft engineering to lads of 17-21 years mainly. Few had any real interest in aircraft and most hadn?t the slightest idea what sort of engine powered the Spitfire for instance. They were just after the money. And you don?t need much of that today to buy a reasonable motor. It was obvious that many had never even had the most basic tools in their hands before. Some even admitted their mum used to fix their bikes! Another problem is the lamentable state of adult literacy in this country. So if something goes wrong it becomes hard work finding out how to fix it. Books too, are naff. I learnt most of my car servicing from Practical Motorist and Car Mechanics, and I?m still learning. The same basic car fault questions re-occur monotonously on the various ?Answers? websites. The level of ignorance about the workings of the car never ceases to dismay me.
Perhaps I haven?t forgotten lying in the snow in Germany adjusting helicopter tappets and turbocharger wastegate actuators. If I could do that then doing an oil change in the drive is a cakewalk - even at 65. At least I know the job?s been done properly and I haven?t been ripped off.
Sorry to ramble on, but I think your answer?s there -somewhere!
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"Few had any real interest in aircraft and most hadn?t the slightest idea what sort of engine powered the Spitfire for instance."
My Father worked on Merlins ( Malta) and other aircraft engines but had little interest when demobbed.
( wish I had helical gear driven camshafts :)
Yes, I agree MagDrop, your views reflect my own.
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Just a few years ago it was very easy to change the front pads on my Cortina.
Today the calipers seem more complex plus ABS etc.
Disk change frequency seems to approaching pad change frequency.
All the magic code readers etc would not have found the blown & intermittently reconnected fuse I found.
Long live the real experts ( like some of our members) who can diagnose faults rather than just trust a magic box.
For the average consumer it is about time the washer bottle was put in the boot and a full set of sensors/ displays for fluids, brake pads, bulb failure, tyre pressure etc. me made mandatory .
That would mean little alteration to the current consumer servicing attitude and hopefully an alarm going off in the cabin might, just might induce a reaction.
When I compare the Cortina with my Mondeo the difference in the engine bay is obvious.
Not just the space around the engine but the add ons like power steering, A/C all squashed in acts as an incentive to walk away.
Then there are "simple jobs" , so I am told, like clutch and suspension bushes.
It certainly was simpler in the old days but I will stick with today.
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I'm 51and have been working on cars since about 1970. I started with early 1950s cars with points and grease nipples, tappets, but like most of my friends, I worked on them because I couldn't afford not to. After a while I got to like the feeling of knowing all the mechanical and electrical parts of the car had been checked, or were on the list to be done. Modern cars have electronic ignition, hydraulic tappets, are more precisely machined, and last much longer. The servicing requirements are much less. I too have changed gearboxes and cylinder heads outside, sometimes in the rain. Now I have a garage so can stay dry, but I still have a Mini and an XJ12 to work on, along with the Mitsubishi that only seems to need oil changes and the odd suspension part. One of my sons has cars that he works on, so I help out there, but the other only needs a moped, and yes, I have to fix that too. I like to think that they are picking up the 'black hand' art from me. My father was not at all mechanical, so I had to learn (including some very painful and expensive lessons) for myself.
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Being a youngster under 30 I agree with not being keen to get my hands dirty.
My hands are dirty enough during the week at work fixing forklifts, when I was younger I did service & repair my own cars but now I just cant be bothered doing it myself, I would rather pay someone beer tokens & get the job done for me.
In the past ive had sumps & other bits of engine apart, alternators, starters, steering columns on 2 different cars, steering racks etc & used to do all my own servicing & brakes etc but not anymore.
Bulbs & simple stuff I will still do myself, but oil changes, services, brake pads etc I just let my trusted mechanic do them now.
I can still change a gearknob & steering wheel & PSA clip on airbags are easy to remove too when you know how.
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I´d do more myself, but am worried about cocking it all up. As the Astra is very much a family wagon it goes to the garage :-(
I try to be rigorous about checking fluids and tyre pressures etc, but anything more than that, well, I´d rather not take the risk.
Fortunately we have a local mechanic who doesn´t charge the earth, seems to do a good job, and very much appreciates the odd opera ticket that gets bunged his way (they´re a cultured lot round here!)
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Well I'm a "youngster" as well, and I like getting my hands dirty. Even though my car only has the normal oil, filter and plug changes every year, plus the odd coolant change every couple of years, I dread to think how much money I would've parted with had I paid someone else to do it for me.
Bulbs are a simple job on a well-designed car - 2 headlight bulbs on my Almera took me 5 minutes each in Halfords car park, in the dark with no torch. Oil changes are more of a pain, because I usually have to jack the OSF wheel up to get a bowl under the car. Things like spark-plugs and air-filters take seconds to change, and there's no reason whatsoever why anyone couldn't change them themselves - fuel filters on a modern petrol car are a bit more tricky (removing relay and depressurising etc), but still easily doable on the street. A combination of laziness, ignorance and poor financial skills are the reasons people don't DIY service as much anymore IMO.
The posters who wrote about credit also have a point. Money isn't an issue anymore, until the bailiffs come. But then they'd probably take the car, which eliminates the problem of DIY car maintenance(!!)
A lot of my friends have this "get a man in to do it" attitude - my concern is that one day there won't be enough "men" to do these jobs - they'll be too busy moisurising and buying clothes.
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I tried to change a rear brake light bulb on the Astra and completely ballsed it up, the whole unit lit up like a Christmas tree when I put the headlights on. Not my finest moment. The local ATU (similar to Halfords) had to sort it out, took them about a minute.
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Colt 1410 GLX auto - 1982-1984: Living in Kuwait, this was my first car since passing my test in UK a few weeks before; oil changes and basic services were done myself, the rest at a Mitsubishi dealer given that I didn't even have a garage and sand in the air contaminated everything.
Austin Aggro 1748 "Sport" - 1984: Six months of the most dire car to drive that I have ever owned. Servicing and fettling to get it up to scratch done myself after neglect from previous owner.
MG Metro - 1982-1990: Once out of warranty, bar hydragas pump-up after the ritual (annual!) radius arm bearing replacement, and tyre changes, everything was done by myself. This includes a meticulously done complete engine rebuild with overbored block and tuning components, a gearbox rebuild at the same time, suspension and braking modifications, and inevitable replacement of the sills and front wings due to rust at the six year point. Rust annoyance aside, all very satisfying, but a good job I enjoyed doing everything - and learning a huge amount in the process - because having just purchased my first house I couldn't afford otherwise.
After the MG Metro came Dad's ex company car, a Sierra 2.0 DOHC that just needed easy annual servicing that I did myself, and then, until 2003, company cars on which I did nothing except keep them clean and perform fluid and tyre checks.
In 2003 I purchased a new Volvo V70 2.4T that I still own, but other than keeping it clean and polished have also done nothing myself but change the oil at an interim mileage for the past two years (because of applying BSR PPC tuning and some other power enhancing modifications and that I intend long term ownership)
Specialist tool requiring work apart, I do however still service and maintain my wife's 306 1.8 Sedan. Why? Simply because although working in a completely unrelated industry I am "mechanically interested" by nature, I enjoy it, and I'm doing it because I want to, when I want to, in a clean and well equipped garage, not because I have to; quite a change from twenty odd years ago and my turn at jobs done out in the open, snow falling, and mother hacked off that you won't come in and eat when you're told!
Likewise my immaculate Honda Hornet 600 motorcycle owned since new in 1998; bulletproof Honda build, but still very satisfying to keep it running to perfection and enjoy the crispness of control when I'm out for a ride all the more. Jeez are some of the things fiddly and awkward to get at compared to a car though!
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I had my first car at university. a 1978 mini 1000 city. I had plenty of time, a few mates that were mechanically competent and a haynes manual. I also had very little money, I usually claim that the only things I learnt at university were to play pool and drinking. I think I should add to that car maintenance. Fortunately nothing major ever went wrong with the mini until I spread it all over the back of a two week old Astra GTE about six years later.
I did learn how to keep the ignition sweet, the joys of setting the points, setting the timing, the distributor on the car was never bolted solidly, that way I could jump out and tweak the timing in seconds, used to get done about once a month when things weren't quite right.. I've stripped the carb a couple of times, wheel bearings and CV joints were an annual change following the MOT failure. I still prefer changing brake shoes to pads thanks to the memories of working on this car.
I still do a reasonable amount of the maintenance on my own cars. I did do the timing chain changes on the mini but these days I'll leave belt changes to a friendly mechanic. I'll also do most of my work at a friends garage, that way I'll always have all the required tools available as well as some expert advice. The last major job I did was change the leg of a Mk II Mondeo last summer. I picked one up from a scrappy for thirty quid and took about an hour to change it.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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I do what I can myself, yesterday I changed the discs and pads on the Mondeo (thanks to those on technical for their advice on removing a siezed disc). I don't do anywhere near what I used to, however. Things like starters, alternators, carbs etc could be easily accessed from under the bonnet on the seventies motors I cut my teeth on, now it can be a hell of a job even finding them. The starter motor I replaced a year or so back was a pig of a job, with bolts hidden in all sorts of barely accessable places, and the fact that it was tipping it down didn't help. There also seems to be less room underneath cars now, and at my age crawling about the floor has somewhat lost it's appeal, in addition to which spending a few hours bending and squatting makes me suffer the following day.
I am glad I learnt a fair bit about the mechanical principles in my youth however, because it has instilled a driving style which is sympathetic to the car and a sixth sense that gives me an early warning that something isn't quite right and needs attention. I do know people who don't even know how to open the bonnet of their car, and I have a male relative who had to limp to a garage with a flat tyre because after he had got the spare out of the boot and psyched himself up to grapple with the highly technical art of using a jack and wheel brace couldn't figure out how to get the wheeltrim off.
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I'm 31 and although there is a lot I still don't know, I would consider myself a competent DIY mechanic. I've done my own clutches and timing belts on a few of my cars, as well as routine servicing. For me the interest in DIY mechanics was part of a wider character trait in that I love to know how things work. My dad always did his own servicing and repairs, and I found myself "helping" at the age of 8 upwards, and actually learning enough to do something useful a few years on.
Routine servicing on most cars is easy because there's so little to do. Most engines will now do 100k on fluid and filter changes only, with maybe a timing belt or spark plug change thrown in the mix somewhere. Additional work has got harder. I actually have my suspicions that Ford deliberately designed certain aspects of the Mondeo (front suspension / steering / subframe mostly) to drum up dealer servicing business. I find it hard to believe such an awkward to work on design (disconnect all four engine mounts and jack up the engine to get the left hand wishbone bolts out, special tools to get the steering rack bolts out etc etc etc) was arrived at by accident.
Cheers
DP
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I've been servicing my cars for the past 25 years and have attempted many repairs. For me, using a dealer is a the option of last resort - unless the car is still within warranty. I have very little trust in any dealers - particularly nowadays. Discussions with friends suggest that true mechanics are very rare - what you get are fitters. Also, the bread & butter jobs (e.g. oil changes) are performed by the least skilled trainees.
When I started my older brother was a great help in showing me how it's done. I think hand-on training is invaluable. It's very hard to get the right feel for things just from a Haynes manual. If you take your time and apply a little common sense, DIY servicing and repairs can be very rewarding and enjoyable.
As mentioned above, seeing how the mechanical bits fit together gives you a better appreciation of the machine. It helps you be a bit more sympathetic when using it.
I agree that servicing has become easier. The days of adjusting tappets/shims and CB points are thankfully over. Braking systems are still fairly straight-forward. One-man bleeding kits are very handy.
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Very interesting replies to my original post.
Here`s an attempt at an interim summary........
There did seem to be a boom in learning mechanical skills in the 50s and 60s,
due to *ordinary* working people suddenly being able to afford a motorbike or car for the first time( remember those sidecars!) and they HAD to do it themselves for financial reasons. Also ex forces people following demob, national service, or career,had aquired mechanical skills and the knowledge was transferable to cars.
There is also the "mechanical interest" in servicing one`s own car and "satisfaction of doing a quality job and knowing it has been done."
I think there is general agreement that contemporary cars ARE easier to service (excluding repair and problem solving)
Or at least those of us who can strip and rebuild earlier engines tend to see it like that.
It makes me wonder whether the OVERALL complexity of modern cars tends to hide the simple service requirements, for some owners who have not had a thorough grounding in earlier car DIY?
( and by "some" I am refering to other than posts to this topic on this forum)
Then there is developing an interest in Mech and as someone said " in how things work".
I think once that develops the interest and involvement just snowballs.
But there seem to be sociatal changes too, with contentment in "letting a man do it" and I bet that applies to more than car DIY
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