In Praise of LGV drivers - Dave E
At risk of getting flamed at some point ( I don't really care about that ), I thought I should defend mine and fellow LGV drivers in response to some pretty negative and to be honest, down right stupid threads that have appeared recently. As ever the usual suspects on this forum have plenty to say for themselves and that really is one of the reasons why I contribute so infrequently. In the main this forum has turned into a platform for some who all to frequently pop up and trivialise what some consider to be a serious subject for them. Doing so in a smug "aren't I clever and witty" manner, when really they are not.

Anyway to my real point, banning LGV's in the wet ot having a fear of curtainside vehicles that have slight bulges, now really!! Or even commenting on the capabilities of the LGV driver him/herself. We all see incidents every day that brass us off but to be so righteous as to want to report it, come on.

Yes there are some bad LGV drivers on the road but they are far outweighed by the bad driving displayed by drivers of cars. I am relatively new to the LGV game and I consider myself to be an ok driver, not had an accident in 27 years of driving and only ever having possessed 3 points for 1 speeding ticket 10 years ago. Having an LGV licence is a real eyeopener to what goes on when out on the road. Everything is conducted at a much slower pace, the sad thing is your average driver does not understand that and that is probably why we get the daft threads about banning this and that. Unless you have driven a 44 feet unit/trailer combination you will not appreciate the concentration and roadcraft that is required to be safe. The spice is added by the idiotic behaviour of other road users who simply do not appreciate how slow an LGV is and then commit to doing trival and stupid movements to save themselves that few seconds to the next junction. And then get all indignant and come on forums such as this and suggest bans and how afraid they are of curtainside LGV's.

I do not consider myself fundamentally better than the next driver, I would certainly classify myself as a safe driver but in terms of LGV experience I am a mere novice. Therefore I am probably a bit more wary about how I conduct myself but believe me the minute you don't look in the mirrors is when you can mount a kerb or clip a post, it is quite simply nothing like driving a car. So a bit more appreciation of LGV drivers would be nice, if you please.

Yesterday I had a couple of runs along the M62 from Warrington to Manchester, as my company restricts the speed of it's vehicles to 56mph, life is spent in the nearside lane where virtually all vehicles pass you by. So it gives you plenty of opportunity to see how dumb the average car driver is.

The driver in the Pug 206 who joined the M602 from the M60 and tried to drive under my trailer.

The driver in front ,who on seeing a mobile camera in a 40mph zone decides to slow to 20mph, why?

The Vectra driver who cut across his lane forcing me to almost mount a kerb to give him room in his tiny car!

The Polo driver at the apex of the M602/M60 junction, sat with the hazards on in a dangerouse position waiting for a convenient gap so they could cut across to the junction they had so clearly missed.

The driver at a roundabout who sees both lanes as something for them to cut across, irrespective of what is behind them.

A small sample and to pinch the idea from the thread that wants to report dodgy LGV drivers, who should I report all the above to?

The answer in reality is, no one. As some more sensible contributors have already said it goes on all the time, deal with it. The importance of the LGV to the everyday running of GB plc has already been done to death. My message is the roads are there for all of us. So give your humble trucker a break. After all he/she is in reality a much better and safer driver than you. ;<)

In Praise of LGV drivers - Wales Forester
Yes there are some bad LGV drivers on the road but
they are far outweighed by the bad driving displayed by drivers
of cars.

I beg to differ on that score, it seems to me that for every badly driven car there is an equally badly driven LGV.
The difference is that the LGV driver is supposed to be a professional driver.

Your closing remark 'After all he/she is in reality a much better and safer driver than you' is frankly laughable.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Dave E
Your closing remark 'After all he/she is in reality a
much better and safer driver than you' is frankly laughable.

Peter, You obviously missed the smiley face which if I remember correctly can be construed as indicating a tongue in cheek comment. However, seeing as you have had a sense of humour bypass lets be a little more serious.

Why is the above so, as you put it, laughable? Where is your proof, statistical evidence? Have you in fact driven an LGV?

Because something is designated a profession, it does not mean that every single member of said profession will be to a high standard, as you appear to stipulate as a requirement. Your white van man is technically a professional driver if he is undertaking multi drop deliveries but it is widely held, incorrectly IMHO, that they are amongst the worst drivers on the road.

And I beg to differ there are as many bad LGV drivers as car drivers. The incidents I witnessed in my original post all involved cars. I saw nothing where an LGV was seen to commit a dangerous or stupid manouvre. And I am being impartial as I do not rely on LGV driving to make a living.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Wales Forester
My sense of humour is quite intact thanks Dave, in fact your original post made me lol.

You are entitled to your opinion and that is fine, but your opinion is quite worryingly blinkered.
You appear to believe that every car driver on the road should be able to understand the logistics of driving an LGV. Those car drivers who in your opinion don't give you enough room are then assumed to be bad drivers, when in fact a lot of them are just plain ignorant.
I have no proof, or statistical evidence, as I am sure you don't either so what's the point of that question?

You say that you have seen nothing where an LGV was seen to commit a dangerous or stupid manouvre - do you mean never?? I see badly driven LGV's quite often, sometimes just driving over pavement corners, other times using their vehicle's size to bully their way along. How many car drivers do you see doing that??

White van man doesn't need a vocational driving licence to do his job, so what is your point?

LGV drivers can be as bad as the rest so get over it.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Quinny
The problem here,is the average car driver,never sees half or a quarter of the idiotic moves,that their fellow car drivers do,whereas,we as HGV drivers,because we spend nearly all of our working day on the road,and not in a office enviroment,tend to see a hell of a lot more,as was clearly detailed by Dave E.

However,I won't be drawn into the debate yet again,as I have made my point perfectly clear in the past.

But one thing I will add,that I also added on here a few days ago,and that is if anyone wants to witness at first hand what the average day is like in the life of an HGV driver,then feel free to spend a day with me,which may consist of a 15 hour shift,and be prepared to start at anytime after 12 midnight,and live near Wakefield.

In Praise of LGV drivers - Stuartli
I would agree with most of what you say and that, generally, LGV drivers are responsible and sound drivers.

However, I must say that some of the near misses I've faced on motorways (and in some cases ordinary roads) and had to take evasive steps have involved LGV drivers...:-)

They are few and far between, but the sheer size of such vehicles means that any collision could well prove serious.

The main complaint is that of an LGV driver deciding to pull out into your motorway lane whilst you are just starting to overtake or are actuallyl alongside and with no escape route on the outside lane because of traffic volumes; Cheshire police once estimated that collisions of this type occur at least once a week on average on their patch of the M6.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
In Praise of LGV drivers - Dave E
LGV drivers can be as bad as the rest so get over it. >>

Get over what Peter? You are the one who started the whole silly thing regarding LGV drivers being bad news with your fatuous comments over a trivial incident that we see every single day of the week and quite rightly ignore. The difference is, this time you were involved directly.

Me thinks it is you who has an issue to get over.

Me, I can take the balanced approach as I can and do see it from both sides. Yes there are good and bad on both sides but when I see threads calling for people to be dismissed from their employment by a one sided argument and then further threads calling for all manner of stupid things then I am passing comment.

Nothing more nothing less.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Lud
Are LGV and HGV normally regarded as synonymous? I would have thought the first referred to white vans and such, the second to monstrous 18-wheelers.

If there is a difference, then I have to say that the standard of driving in big trucks is generally better than that in white vans, and that this is just as well.

However I have no complaints about most drivers in either category.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Wales Forester
In reply to DaveE (16:29 post)

Oh so the whole silly thing is my fault? Well obviously I am so very wrong Mr E, maybe in future I should just put up with being tailgated by a 38 tonne artic whose driver wishes to speed through roadworks and doesn't like the fact that he is being held up by other traffic, so shows his disgust by giving other drivers abuse.

The fact that you 'quite rightly ignore' such incidents tells me exactly what kind of driver you must be.

You've set out your stall, and if that really is your opinion then you're welcome to it.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Birdie
LGV drivers get a sometimes unjustified bad press, usually because when it goes wrong with a lorry involved it goes badly wrong.

Whats rarely seen is the number of incidents caused by us trying to avoid the actions of a thoughtless car driver.

If you witness or are victim of an incident where you feel the lorry driver is in the wrong, by all means raise your grievance with their employer, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Regarding the mounting of kerbs and pavements, this is sometimes unavoidable due to the lay out of road junctions and the amount of space a lorry needs to make a turn, and sometimes something we're forced to do due to carelessly parked cars.

"Bullying" may just be a lorry driver trying to get enouh room to carry out a manovre, not just barging about for amusement. Try sitting back and leaving us some room and life gets easier for everyone.

HGV = Heavy Goods Vehicle, LGV= Large Goods Vehicle. The latter is what Europe likes to call us.
PeterPerfect, you seem to have a distinct problem with lorries and their drivers. What do you suggest to try and improve matters? What changes could be made to make life on the road better for us all?

Personally I'd like to see more effort made to educate car drivers and stop them sitting in blind spots or trying to drive round me like I'm some kind of mobile chicane. A great many incidents occur because someone is driving like they haven't a minute to live, and its amazing how much more progress you can make with a bit les haste and a bit more thought.

In Praise of LGV drivers - Lud
So they are both the same.

Had my life (or anyway my car) saved once on the A34 by the quick thinking and correct response of an artic driver, so they would have to be pretty awful to get into my bad books.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Tomo
This is getting unnecessarily controversial.

I have been driving longer than most, and in general I find drivers of large commercials have been good enough for a bad one to come as a slight surprise, and vice versa with small ones. I do not think, on reflection, too many will disagree.

I would make one suggestion; while we car drivers can get up to speed very easily it is not so for the heavies, and we should try not to cause them to have to lift off if we can help it.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Pugugly {P}
Like a lot of things make everyone ride a motrbike for 12 months, soon teach you about blind-spos, stopping distances, road surface adhesion, hazard perception and diesel fumes (!joke),
In Praise of LGV drivers - R75
Like a lot of things make everyone ride a motrbike for
12 months

I am glad someone else has mentioned Bikes, at the moment there is a tv ad campaign about looking out for bikes when turning out of a junction. How many ad's have there been about not coming up the inside of an Artic at a left hand junction, or coming up the outside of one at a roundabout? Now I suppose this is beacuse that whilst accidents involvong trucks normally do alot more damage they do not have the same death rate as bikes. On some trucks you will see stickers warning against coming up the inside and warning about them making wide left turns etc, but how many people actually take any notice?

Now the majority of people who post on here have an interest in driving, as such we are probably far more aware of our surroundings then the average motorist, but when you look at mr average he does do some remarkably stupid things - I have witnessed many whilst sat in the cab of the truck, in the car and on a bike, I dont tar all car drivers with the same brush, but I have reported on here some of the more idiotic things I have seen, and if they had had "Hows my driving" stickers then I would have reported them, unfortuntaly there are very few ways of reporting bad driving by cars, apart from the Police, who, quite frankly are not at all bothered - with a truck it is normally easier, and I fully advocate reporting bad driving if you see it, But I think we need to seperate out bad driving from just a loss of concertration - tailgating someone flashing lights is bad driving, bouncing a kerb is normally either lack of concerntration or something has happened that the truck driver has had to respond to but may well have happened out of the site of the car driver behind the truck, who is now about to dial the number of the transport manager to report just how bad the driving of their employees is!!!!
In Praise of LGV drivers - type's'
When it comes to driving, the trouble with LGV drivers is they think they are clever, where as us car drivers, we know we are.
In Praise of LGV drivers - yorkiebar
Just afew points

most lgv drivers are car drivers too so see both viewpoints?

If every car driver had to learn to drive in a van (escort sized) they would begin to appreciate the lack of vision vans have; let alone lgv's! It amazed me when i 1st sat in 1 to realise howe little I could actually see. And people complain about blind spots in cars and how they have to lean to see etc!

I wouldnt want to drive 1 all day long; way too many inconsiderate and bad drivers about, many of whom automatically think its the big lorries fault. it sometime is btw; i think all lgv drivers know they are not infalliable; but by driving more miles than most they see more events too.

In Praise of LGV drivers - Pugugly {P}
Yes Yorkiebar, I borrowed a Transit Connect to do a "job" When it came to moving off (from where I had parked on DYLs by the way !) I realized how hard it was to move off safely without the benefit of over the shoulder visibility. Nice van though, drove perfectly, just like a Focus inside.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Lud
I would make one suggestion; while we car drivers can get
up to speed very easily it is not so for the
heavies, and we should try not to cause them to have
to lift off if we can help it.

I made this point in a previous trucker thread. Car drivers who have never driven low-powered, high-geared two-cyliner French 1950s econocars or other devices that take ages to reach a modest cruise when baulked just don't identify with truckers. Those who have, do. Quite right Tomo.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Group B
I have been driving longer than most, and in general I
find drivers of large commercials have been good enough for a
bad one to come as a slight surprise, and vice versa
with small ones. I do not think, on reflection, too many
will disagree.

I agree. I drive about 20k miles per year, a lot less than many drivers, but more than many others; and I drive on motorways twice a day on weekdays. Cars outnumber HGV's on the roads but in my experience badly driven cars vastly, disproportionately, outnumber badly driven HGV's. I am not pro or anti HGV; actually it would suit me if there were less of them on the roads (which is not going to happen) especially with the advent of speed limiters. But I appreciate that they have got a job to do and bear in mind that they are driving something very big and heavy with limited visibility. When I think off the top of my head, of instances I see of inept, ignorant, inconsiderate driving, its usually car drivers doing it.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Micky
There are good and bad drivers everywhere; of course, I'm one of the best ...... ;-)

Perhaps the problem is one of perception: if a Pug 206 tailgates me in roadworks with a 40 mph restriction it's not that much of an issue. If a LGV tailgates me then it is a big problem. I know it's frustrating with a limiter, but LGV drivers don't promote a good image with the long overtakes on dual carriageways. The real answer is political: road or rail? If it's road then spend a few £billion on upgrading all the major routes. But that needs forward planning, which is beyond UK politicos.
In Praise of LGV drivers - stevied
Mmm.... I've had my moans about truckers on here. But I would also say that some of the best driving I see is HGV drivers. NOT LGV. Definitely efinitely not those. And, yes, I will argue my point. : )

BUT BUT BUT, argue as you might, HGV drivers are doing a JOB, they should be good, it's a given. So, when they do drive badly; then rightly or wrongly it's got more weight. In fact, literally, it has more weight.

And I have seen FAR too many examples recently of tailgating in roadworks. And don't get me started on the A41 in Shropshire......

Yes, I am sitting firmly on the fence... just thinking aloud really.
In Praise of LGV drivers - slowboy
i would love to hear your views on the a41 in shropshire. would this be about the irish lorries travelling at a great rate of knots or the culina ones at the speed limit
In Praise of LGV drivers - Number_Cruncher
HGV & LGV are the same thing. LGV is just the new word for it.

The same needless mucking about has happened for bus & coach drivers

PSV became PCV.

I agree that there are good and bad drivers - but, one expects HGV and PSV drivers to be good - it's their job.

If some HGV drivers find moving around in a 38 tonne artic difficult, and perish the thought having to stop and start, and be a courteous road user along with everyone else, then they shouldn't be doing it, as it's clearly too much for them.


In Praise of LGV drivers - stevied
Slowboy, I drive the A41 as part of a regular journey between Nantwich in Cheshire and Wolverhampton and its environs.

I am regularly cut up, cut in on, beeped at, swerved at etc. etc. by what are predominantly Irish lorries, with the odd Pole or Lithuanian thrown in. The Irish ones in particular go at incredible speeds. Oh, and my favourite: I got pulled out on by one once in Tern Hill, and I broke the horn law for about 30 seconds (sorry pedants on the forum who only ever use the horn in a terribly Bwitish way, I have Italian ancestry and use it when I am hacked off!! : ) ) and when I turned right for Market Drayton about a mile later, I could see him all red-faced and mouthing god knows what at me, and giving me the bird etc. etc. WHAT DO PEOPLE EXPECT? He pulled out on ME, there was no excuse to do it, he just couldn't be bothered to stop. "Because it's really difficult to get going again in a big lorry"..... My heart bleeds. Get another job if you don't like difficult starts.

Rant over.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Sofa Spud
My LGV driving days were many years ago when HGV was the preferred term and crash gearboxes were still common! But I've kept my LGV licence going ever since, just in case!

In general I would say that the standard of driving with LGVs is higher than with cars etc. Yes, one does see bad driving of LGVs but less than one used to. Where one does see more bad driving is among the 7.5 tonne trucks that can be driven on car licences by people who passed their test before a certain date (1997?).

There is much less margin for error when driving an LGV. When fully loaded, a lorry is being driven foot to the floor for much of the time. One particular problem with lorry driving, less so in cars, is 'theft of braking space'. This occurs particularly on approach to roundabouts on dual carriageways. One starts braking some way off the roundabout, only for an overtaking car, white van or occasionally another lorry, to cut in front of you.
In Praise of LGV drivers - Sofa Spud
There is a psychological aspect here too. We all have off days at work, when everythings seems against us and we feel like trashing the place! It's no different for lorry drivers - the haulage industry, like the restaurant trade, is notorious for bullying by bosses who want things done yesterday.

So, while not excusing bad driving, when an LGV driver has a 'bad work day', he has to have it out on the road. I know the industry has had initiatives to improve driving standards but I wonder if this has included mental techniques dealing with 'off days'.
In Praise of LGV drivers - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
Good points well made Dave E.

I drive on the motorway twice each day and rarely see poor driving from HGVs. The car drivers are another story, some classic stereotypes;

- cutting from lane 3/2 across lane 1 to take their junction at the last second
- refusing to let an indicating HGV pull out to overtake another. How long does it take to brake, let the lorry out, find a gap, and then overtake the lorry?
- the lane 1 dawdler who allows HGVs to catch up, forces them to pull out to overtake, waits until the cab is level with the car and then speeds up again. The HGV pulls back in, the car slows down and the dance begins again - the temptation to ram 'em must be overwhelming! ;-)

About the worst thing I see from HGVs is the 'slow drift' in and out of the (empty!) hard shoulder; but I assume this is down to sidewinds, and not making any sudden corrections with all that momentum going on. I presume it's this and not due to falling asleep!

The (extreme example) 8-mile overtakes are, on the face of it, incredibly frustrating. But think about it - 8 miles at 56 instead of 70 has not added much to your journey time. Compared with doing 90 it has more impact, but we shouldn't be doing that should we boys and girls?

Biggest things I have ever driven are numerous hired transits. The lack of visibility and power makes me respect hugely the driver of anything bigger. I'm often a lane one dawdler myself, but I will never slow down enough to make an HGV have to find his way around me. Let's give these guys (and gals) the respect they deserve!

Anyone who does not respect HGV drivers should be forced to manouver one around a very tight village (complete with some average car drivers) before reversing it into a narrow street - maybe then we would realise there is some skill involved in their trade.
In Praise of LGV drivers - yorkiebar
So well put !

bad driving exists in all catagories of vehicles; but affecting a hgv has further ramnifications too!

If all drivers posessed the skills of good lgv drivers then the roads would be much safer!
In Praise of LGV drivers - Westpig
surely the main thrust here is that a fair number of car drivers are relatively clueless and live in their own little worlds, so are ignorant of the 'bigger picture' at times e.g. giving an artic room around a roundabout etc

most, if not all, lorry drivers will have considerably more spatial awareness and forward vision etc, so they tend to be better drivers....however.........despite this greater knowledge, some choose to drive badly...e.g. waiting until the last minute for an overtake on a motorway, with little warning, when someone following a lot faster, has no idea whether they're going to do that or just stay where they are following someone else......mirror, signal manouver?

motorcyclists are similar, as mentioned above by PU, you have to be more aware.......but how many motorcyclists spoil it for the rest of us, by driving like clowns

the bottom line is ignorance (some car drivers) versus choosing to ignore your skills, (some, but probably fairly few, lorry drivers)
In Praise of LGV drivers - Rats
As a car driver who has driven a 7.5 tonner on a round trip between the South Coast and Fife and who occasionally tows a horse box (trailer), I know who I would prefer to be on the road with, and it wouldn't be my fellow car drivers.

The trip in the 7.5 tonner was a real eye opener, as previously mentioned, braking distances are greatly increased and having to prepare to overtake a slow moving car is interesting, building the speed up so you can get past, only then to find the car accelerates, or another vehicle occupies the space you were going to use.

BTW, why to car drivers travel on the motorway at such ridiculously slow speeds, if you want to cruise along, get on the back roads.

I find when towing the horse box, I am invariably held up by slower moving cars (and caravans) in lane one (and sometimes lane two).

Yes, I have seen dodgy LGV driving, and yes, an accident with an LGV is undoubetly going to have a greater impact, but surely that is why we should (must??) give the drivers more respect and appreciate how difficult it is to drive these vehicles (maybe it should be compulsary for all car drivers to spend a with an LGV driver to see what it is like). But I do see more dodgy car/van driving every day (even in proportion to the numbers).

I try to look ahead and drive safely, I know I'm not perfect (or even anywhere close to being so) and I get the red mist at times, but, it isn't difficult to back off the gas and let an LGV out when it needs to overtake or enter the carriageway, if the vehicle can maintain the speed, the overtake will generally be made pretty quickly.

Ok, I've been nice to the LGV drivers now, please could any that use the A34 not get into the multi-mile overtakes (especially uphill) I hate using the A34 because of this.


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