Norwich Union is trying to encourage drivers to say sorry after an accident: see www.aviva.com/index.asp?PageID=55&year=&newsid=2237
In general, I think it's a very good idea to go through life saying sorry when things go wrong, but I as always told that in case of a car accident, it would be take as an admission of guilt.
Norwich Union says no it won't, so I wonder what the real situation is?
It seems to me that it probably is OK to say "I'm sorry that this has happened to us" but probably not OK to say "I'm terribly sorry, I have been a complete idiot", because the latter is probably an admission of guilt. If that really is the distinction, then isn't there a danger that the first sort of sorry (the expression of regret rather than apology) could get misinterpreted as an admission of liability?
In that situation, the arguments later could get a bit silly:
"You admitted it's your fault -- you said sorry"
"Not quite"
"Whaddaya mean?"
"I did say sorry, but I didn't say that sort of sorry"
"Nonsense. People say sorry if they have done something wrong"
"Maybe, but not me. I say sorry for the situation"
"You pedantic weasel you, I'll have my lawyers on you ..."
... and so on.
Any advice?
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I would, frankly, ignore the Norwich Union's advice.
Sorry and all that....
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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One of the best pieces of advice I was given:
Never apologize, never explain. Served me well many times.
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A useful phrase for use when you have piled into the back of somebody stopped at the red light.
"Oh dear. This is most unfortunate."
Implies sympathy without admission of liability.
Happy Motoring Phil I
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Never apologize, never explain. Served me well many times.
I'm glad I'm not married to you! :)
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Never apologize, never explain. Served me well many times.
In my case only twice,but I do the same.though have been accused of saying sorry I am in the wrong.have never said this,only asked for details as you do
--
Steve
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My son was once front ended in stopped traffic by a driver going the opposite way who seemed to have nodded off. The aggressor was in an Opel Record, and my son in a Ford Escort. My son was bounced backward into a big Volvo driven by a middle aged lady. It was a severe impact, and my son's car was written off. My son went to the lady, who was quite shocked, and apologised, made sure that she was OK and looked after her until her husband arrived in a big Mercedes to pick her up. When the lady left I heard her say to him in a charming manner, "Thank you young man, I hope I never meet you again".
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It is only too easy to go over the top in a situation by 'not saying sorry, never explaining'.
I was once sat on my motorbike at a give-way junction going into the centre of Bath, with traffic coming from my right. I was giving way to an artic lorry when I had a bus drive right into the back of me, wedging the rear light and numberplate of the bike right into his radiator, jamming the motorbike into the bus and forcing me into the carriageway immediately into the path of the oncoming lorry.
In panic I leapt off the bike and ran up a roadside bank to avoid being crushed. Luckily the lorry was able to swerve and brake and miss the bike saving it from further damage. He had locked up a number of wheels in doing this and therefore was unladen. If he had been fully loaded I am not sure he would have been able to avoid the bike or me.
I was absolutely hopping mad but my incredulity saved me from voicing my anger. The bus driven got out of the bus and said absolutely nothing at all. He gave me a piece of paper with the bus company's insurance details on. I wrote down my details and pulled my bike out of the bus whilst waitng for him to say something. All he did was got back in the bus and drove off!!! I was dumbstruck.
I walked to the bus depot which was about a mile away and insisted on seeing the manager. Eventualy he agreed to see me and explained that the bus drivers were told not to admit to fault in an accident. He explained that they were told it's best to say little or nothing. He agreed that this was an unacceptable situation when taken quite literally. After all, the guy could have asked if I was OK, helped me with the bike, explained that he would get the insurance details passed on, etc.
By saying nothing he risked a less patient person's wrath.
It must be said that the bus was full of passengers who were also astonished by the drivers actions.
Saying at least something is better than nothing.
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>>Saying at least something is better than nothing.>>
Whilst that is true, the point of the thread is the suggestion from Norwich Union to say "Sorry", which could quite easily be mistaken for an admission of being at fault.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Then I would agree. Don't say sorry. Under any circumstances.
But also, don't just say nothing.
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>> Never apologize, never explain. Served me well many times. I'm glad I'm not married to you! :)
>>
Growler might agree, NW, though I can't speak for him.
Best suggestion I can make is one that served me well when I rear-ended a line of stationary cars. I got out, walked towards the other drivers, and got in first with "Ah. Would you like my insurance details?" Unsurprisingly, they indicated that they would indeed.
It seemed to do the job of indicating (genuine and heartfelt!) contrition without being any form of admission.
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>> >> Never apologize, never explain. Served me well many times. >> >> I'm glad I'm not married to you! :) Growler might agree, NW, though I can't speak for him.
I suspect he probably would!
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>>It seems to me that it probably is OK to say "I'm sorry that this has happened to us" but probably not OK to say "I'm terribly sorry, I have been a complete idiot", because the latter is probably an admission of guilt.
I think you're probably right, however personally I would just avoid saying sorry in any way.
One can show concern, but need not apologise.
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While not try to sound more righteous than the Righteous Brothers, if I caused a collision and it totally my fault I would admit guilt. If I cause loss and/or injury to someone else I would be prepared to cough up and not put that person through anymore stress. I don't feel I have the right to line of pockets of solicitors and push up premiums to drag out something longer than nessecary; just because a greedy insurance company wants to avoid paying up if it can. I'm sure many of us have been on the wrong end of a no-fault accident where the other (100% at fault) party doesn't admit guilt and drags the thing on for months. Where's the honesty and respect gone these days?
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Whilst I understand, and mostly agree, with your point of view the issue is that;
Imagine a situation where an incident has occurred, and given the circumstances [level of your negligence, level of proof, shared blame, whatever] the insurer believes that he is able to say that you were not particularly careless/negligent but that they will offer £10,000 - unfortunately you have already conceded that you were totally at fault and behaved like a dingbat, meaning that the incident then costs the insurer £15,000 given the now perceived higher levels of proof and negtligence.
Guess who is potentially liable for the additional £5,000 ?
>>........I would be prepared to cough up and not put that person through anymore stress.
Good, because potentially that is exactly the decision that you are making.
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Sorry, my post crossed with F2MR's, but this is an intersting point:
Guess who is potentially liable for the additional £5,000 ?
Are you sure that is the limit of your exposure? I thought that if I breached the don't-admit-liability clause, I'd be liable for all the costs, because my insurer could say that I simply was not covered at all for that accident. Can anyone clarify?
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While not try to sound more righteous than the Righteous Brothers, if I caused a collision and it totally my fault I would admit guilt. If I cause loss and/or injury to someone else I would be prepared to cough up and not put that person through anymore stress.
Unfortunately, I think that could be a very expensive thing to do.
If you have been in an accident which is entirely your fault, it would seem like the decent and civilised thing to do, but your insurers may differ. Whenever I have bothered reading my motor insurance policies, they have always had a clause which forbids me admitting liablity.
I have always understood that to mean that if I admit liability, even in a case where my liability is beyond reasonable doubt, then I am not covered. If personal injuries are involved, it could get very expensive.
It's a pity that insurance should impede the exercise of good manners, but I like Patently's suggestion above as a way of expressing regret without acknowledging liability.
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I can sort of see what the NU is driving at, if they are really saying that in those situations no one's word is worth much anyway, unless substantiated by disinterested evidence. If things said by both drivers can just be put down as mere words, and "sorry" is not an admission of fault, then neither is a statement blaming the other driver of much value either.
Are they saying, "say what you like if it smooths things over at the time, but we'll be going on real evidence like skid marks, paint scrapings, breath-tests,passer-by statements, etc" ?
Sounds a fair enough line of approach, but useless unless all companies work on the same basis, and that is supported by law.
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