Hi guys,
I am hoping some of our uniformed or legal frined will pick this up - if you can bring it to their attention I would much appreciate it - especially if they are in the Herts area.
Have been buying lots of parts on a popular subaru forum. Had no problems to date with making payment or receipt of goods - until now.
Sent a cheque for £23.25 to said individual who was selling a quantity of parts to carry out a DIY modification. The cheque was cashed before the goods were despatched.
Goods were sent recorded delivery, and did not arrive. Two weeks later they still haven't arrived. During this time I remained in touch with the seller keeping him appraised. Our e-mail exchanges were chatty and friendly.
He agrees to send another batch of these parts to me special delivery and tells me he will claim against Royal Mail for the non-delivered parts (upto £30 insurance on recorded delivery).
I obtained a tracking reference for the package, but Royal Mail can only track the package once delivered. The Reference was genuine - because providing an invalid code gives an error stating the code is invalid - however there is no guarantee that the reference related to my package.
So one month on - and still nothing and direct correspondence has ceased - as has his participation on the forum.
I posted a comment on the forum about this and have since learned there are 7 others in a similar position. This would mean this individual has taken £186 of our cash and will possible make a claim for 200 from the Royal Mail.
I chose to escalate the issue and have contacted my local police. They told me that as the offender lives in Hertfordshire, the offence is deemed to have taken place whereever the cheques were cashed. Their advice was to report it direct to Herts police. I did this on Sunday morning, they called me back on Sunday afternoon to tell me that they couldn't do anything until they were contaced by my local police.
Herts police are treating this as an "out of force" offence, and according to them the offence has been committed in Northern Ireland. They keep quoting the same rubbish to me that "under the reporting of crime legislation we can't act witout your local force tasking us".
i think they have failed to grasp this is INTERNET crime, it could be a global thing, if I lived in Mosambique I would have to report this to my local cops - who would pass it out to Herts police. I cant see that working when the UK police are not totally joined up yet.....
THIS IS NOT TO BECOME A COP BASHING THREAD - EXPRESS THOSE OPINIONS ELSEWHERE -
Can anyone advise on the comments from Hertfordahire police - I think they are wrong, as do my local force, but they are not listening to me. I asked to speak to their ACC but was told that would not be an option, but I could write.
Three days in and Herts have done nothing yet - despite being given individuals name, given address, e-mail address and bank account details.
Help please
Leon
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Contact your local MP
madf
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I've mentioned here before that I had non-delivery of a £150 item a couple of years back. The local police were helpful but admitted they were not familiar with or equipped to deal with internet crime. However they put me in touch with the police local to where teh seller lived. The police there said there was nothing they could do for 6 months as until sufficient time had elapsed they couldn't be sure a crime was committed. I pointed out to them that maybe the guy had done the same to 100 other people, making it a crime surely?
They offered to send his local bobby to knock on his door to "remind" him to send me the goods. However I managed to contact the guy and meet him to collect the goods before that happened, so I don't know if it would have. I think the threat of police knocking on his door worried him.
Nothing much to be learned from that in relation to your case, except that buyers should always beware...
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Never mixed finance and the Internet and never will.
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>>Never mixed finance and the Internet and never will.>>
I've been buying various types of goods on the Internet for around seven or eight years from the UK, the Continent and the States and also use several financial institutions' websites.
The only problems are generally the same as you would get in dealing with a normal retail outlet, but it's rare I've had to return a product because it was faulty; e-Bay has proved equally as satisfactory.
Providing you deal with reputable companies and use a credit card there's a lot to be gained and that includes much lower prices and delivery usually next day to your home.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Pop along to www.police.uk and fill in an on-line report.
This will generate a message either in your area, or the senders. In either case, it will raise a crime reference number, which will _have_ to be dealt with.
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It is already recorded and have been given a crime reference, but the problem is herts police will not react without the approval of my local police.
I am going to go chat with them tomorrow - see if I can encourage them to make a call on my behalf.
Leon
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If you raise the crime on the internet portal, and have the offence as happening within the Herts area - the crime will be sent to them for action. You can then put in the text that you have an NI crime number, but were asked to raise another in Herts to progress things.
The trick is to make the crime on the portal appear to have happened within the right area. i.e The "fraud" occured by the person in Herts banking your money without sending the goods.
The system really works by postcode, so if you have the postcode of where you sent the check - record this as where the crime happened. It should at the very least get Herts to contact you.
It can't hurt to use the portal (despite it not being too good to use). A note though, don't spend too long typing in the details - it times you out. Also don't send a huge long text in the boxes provided - it chops the end off and you can't get back to edit it. These are the most popular gripes.
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crime reference, but the problem is herts police will not react without the approval of my local police.
This is total drivel. Your local Police should record a statement from you and then forward it to Herts Police. The crime has happened on Herts, they don't need to get "tasked" by your local Force at all. I would write on quoting the exact circumstances, address it to the local Divisional Commander, I did a quick search of their website and there are three, the below being one of them
www.herts.police.uk/about/area_commanders.htm
It has his name and address, write to them personally. It is unbelivable that the public are being forced to jump through hoops like this to get a service. It makes me very cross.
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There is something called NCRS which are the national crime recording standards. This was put into place to prevent poor members of public being forced to sit on the merry go round of "Not us sir, try herts/met/surrey" etc.
The FIRST force you report the crime to is OBLIGED to record the crime and give you a crime number. It is then their responsibility to try and palm it off onto the force they think is responsible for the investigation.
If you are on holiday in the Lake District and your holiday money is stolen from your car as a result of a breakin, if you couldn't be bothered to report it to the locals there cos you were on your way home......you can report it to your home force even if it was Devon. Devon records it, transfers it to Lake District. They cannot "No Crime" it in Devon until they have a corresponding crime number from the Lake District. Those are the standards. It is for the force to sort it out, not Joe Public victim.
Try typing "National Crime Recording Standards" in google. Get yourself armed with more knowledge than the average desk copper and demand they take the report. If they don't take it, make a complaint.
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......also, under the Home Office counting rules, this type of fraud is difficult to determine force responsibility. This is a useful guide (albeit a bit cackhanded to most coppers)
If goods ordered over the internet (or by phone, mail etc) do not arrive due to a fraudulent operation, then the following rules apply.
If the location of the operation is either unknown or outside England and Wales, then the crime should be recorded in the force/BCU in whose area the victim is located when they place the order.
If the location of the fraudulent operation becomes known and is within England and Wales, then record in the force/BCU area covering that location.
Example: Ten people each order a product via a website, all for delivery in the same force area. The goods do not arrive, and the site is later found to be bogus and untraceable, although it is
known to have been set up overseas.
Ten crimes (class 53B).
Example: A person in Force A successfully bids for an item of property on an internet auction room. Payment is sent via the internet. The item of property is never delivered. The electronic
money transfer took place in Force B and paid into an account in Force C. He reports the matter to Force A. The location of the commission of the offence is in Force C who should record an offence of other fraud (class 53B).
If the location of the fraudulent operation is unknown or outside England and Wales then
the force (ie force A) where the victim is located should record the offence.
Geddit? No wonder coppers have difficulty, rules devised by Quangos and committees!
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Thank you - to you all. As always prompt, relevant advice.
I don't want to post too much just yet about what is happening - i'll keep the powder dry for now. Was thinking about the responses here and had a flash of inspiration which seems to be paying off.
Will update the thread to close the loop, and for the benefit of others should the find themeselves in a similar position.
Thanks again,
Leon
PS Herts Police Crime Bureau still dont understand the Home office legislation on counting crime. Have written to their Chief Constable to advise him of this shortcoming
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