Is undertaking against the law.
I've read sometime ago that it was ok to do so, unless you cause an accident by the manouver. Then it would dangerous driving.
Then another says, its against the law full stop, whether you or not you caused an accident.
So which is it??
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It's illegal.
There is provision in the Highway code to pass on the inside when traffic is moving in queues.
NB. Passing is not the same as undertaking. The latter suggests a maneouvre (ie lane change) to get past another car, passing is simply maintaining a steady rate in the same lane which happens (for a time) to be moving faster the the lane(s) to the right.
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NB. Passing is not the same as undertaking. The latter suggests a maneouvre (ie lane change) to get past another car, passing is simply maintaining a steady rate in the same lane which happens (for a time) to be moving faster the the lane(s) to the right.
Quite correct In fact when the motorway is chocca it is invariably faster to stay in the left hand lane.You will find yourself legally "undertaking" all manner of vehicles stuck in lanes 2&3
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So, my understanding of this is.
Traveling along the motorway at 70mph in lane 1 and a "queue" of middle land hoggers (lane 2) I can safey pass in the lane I am currently travin in (not darting in and out between lane 1 to 3 or 4 for the latter)
What is the plods view of that? Am I likly to be pulled over for this?
Sei-Boy
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"Traveling along the motorway at 70mph in lane 1 and a "queue" of middle land hoggers (lane 2) I can safey pass in the lane I am currently travin in"
As long as you really are doing it "safely" - which may be difficult to prove. Remember, people who hog the middle lane do so because they are poor drivers & very often seem oblivious to what is happening around them - would you trust someone like that not to merrily wander back in to the inside lane without either indicating or checking their nearside mirror?
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I would agree with AdrianM's definition of 'passing' as opposed to 'undertaking'.
The scenario that causes problems occurs when 3 or 4 cars are in the outside lane waiting their turn to pass a slow vehicle in the middle lane. Another car in the middle lane legally passes on the inside these of waiting 3 or 4 cars and then moves into the outside lane - effectively jumping the queue.
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so why is undertaking legal in the U.S. and seems to work ok?, it keeps traffic flowing on multi lane highways, where the same situations here with simular traffic we seem to grind to a halt.
they seem to have better lane disipline, we love to keep changing lanes all the time here, maybe thats the problem.
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Yes, I face this every day on the A34. However, I think attitude is important. Queue jumpers are usually obvious, they race down the inside and cut in whether you like it or not. If I find myself "queue jumping" then the right attitude, car "body language" and a bit of forward planning usually gets me out safely.
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As long as you really are doing it "safely" - which may be difficult to prove. Remember, people who hog the middle lane do so because they are poor drivers & very often seem oblivious to what is happening around them - would you trust someone like that not to merrily wander back in to the inside lane without either indicating or checking their nearside mirror?
Thanks for that - I have seen it happen already but one takes a risk to do it.
Sei-Boy
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"so why is undertaking legal in the U.S. and seems to work ok?, it keeps traffic flowing on multi lane highways, where the same situations here with simular traffic we seem to grind to a halt.
they seem to have better lane disipline, we love to keep changing lanes all the time here, maybe thats the problem."
Actually it's not legal in the US. They can pass on the inside but not undertake (as per my definitions earlier). But I think their passing rules are much clearer than ours and undertaking does tend to be tolerated. Also remember that they expect to be passed on either side.
US highways, in my experience, cope much better than ours with high volumes of traffic because they tend to stay in lane. I also believe that cruise control plays a big part as you tend to match the speed of the traffic around around you and set the CC.
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interesting points adrian, just reminicing on times i've travelled to the U.S. and had relaxing driving experiences then flown home to be infuriated by the poor lane discipline on the M25. I undertook or passed either side all the time on the interstates with no road rage at all! (towards me!)
maybe because they have more lanes and the cruise control works better because the roads are straighter..
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Undertaking is not legal in the USA, although the law is largely ignored.
On the freeways there are not the differentials in speed that we have in UK. On a road with a 70mph limit few cars will exceed 80mph and most cars will be close to 70mph.
There is a down side to driving in the USA. Tailgating is endemic, largely to prevent undertaking, and by any manipulation of statistics the accident & casualty figures are much higher than the UK.
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Saw a marked patrol car clearing the lane 2 hogs on Thursday. I was proceeding in a westerley direction somewhat above the limit in lane 3, and noticed the alternate flashing lights and blues coming from a distance. So I slowed and let him by.
A small distance past me he moved into lane 2 behind a hod, and tailgated when the guy hadn't spotted the lightshow, until the guy moved over. The jam sandwich did the same to about another 8 - 10 cars before speeding off again. (He could have easily continued in lane 3 if he was genuinely in a hurry).
This is the second time I've seen action against hogs. Last time, also M4, a motorcyclist was waving people into lane 1.
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Evidence of breach of the Highway Code, although not Law in itself, may be relied upon at Court to prove Dangerous driving or careless driving.
In Trentham v Rowlands (1974) Divisional Court relied on "overtake only on the right - never move to the lane on the left to overtake.." in holding it was potentially dangerous and therefore dangerous driving to overtake another on the outside lane at 70mph by moving into the inner lanes to do so bearing in the mind the rule on others to return to the inside lane.
Always thought if the legislators wanted to make this an out and out ban then a specific offence should have been created but they haven't. PTB, IIRC, are still looking into the possibility of allowing such a move in line with USA. Until then it is illegal.
DVD
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AdrianM
Your response is concise and very accurate. I hope this helps other members!!
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This is what I mean. Travelling everyday on motorways, you'll always see a convoy of rep cars trying to get to their next point of call before anyone else, so causing a line in the outside lane because they have new BMW's, Renaults, Passats and etc.
So from what most say, if they lanes you are travelling in are free from traffic, you may pass on the inside of the rep convoy.
As some say, in the USA and Canada they use all lanes to there advantage and you don't see any road rage because of someone can't wait to pass a slower vehicle or lane changing. Its far more a pleasure to drive on their vast road system.
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Autumnboy,
"As some say, in the USA and Canada they use all lanes to there advantage and you don't see any road rage because of someone can't wait to pass a slower vehicle or lane changing. Its far more a pleasure to drive on their vast road system."
I agree with you about it being a pleasure to drive in the USA(I'm off there tomorrow), but there is great deal of road rage see below:
"The results of a major study to be released this week by the American Automobile Association: The rate of "aggressive driving" incidents - defined as events in which an angry or impatient driver tries to kill or injure another driver after a traffic dispute-has risen by 51 percent since 1990. In those cases studied, 37 percent of offenders used firearms against other drivers, an additional 28 percent used other weapons, and 35 percent used their cars."
In the USA many drivers do not feel there is any point in moving back to the inside(right) lane and find it acceptable to be passed on the inside. On lightly used roads this does not present a problem. However the situation changes when several cars are in the outside lane passing a truck. Cars undertake and try to force themselves into the outside lane; to prevent this cars close the gap to the car in front. It is quite common to see a convoy of cars travelling at 70mph with less than car length between each of them; with the car in the inside lane trying to 'intimidate' his way into the middle of the convoy.
C
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Road rage in USA....
yes, there's lots - and as most people carry guns.....
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cardew
we went to florida May last year and the two years before that. Both times we hired the Ford Expedition SUV - it's quite powerful for a standard SUV even for US standards. Both times we covered approx 2k miles. We passed cars on the 'wrong' side many times, doing 100mph plus. speed limits 60 most roads including Toll roads - few have 70 mph limit. It worked well as their roads were very wide - but as others suggested here, it is not wise to weave in and out out.
the US way (florida) is v relaxed. The areas we were in, plus nearly all the cars are auto and most are SUV's and people carriers in florida. They find the petrol very expensive so they drive slowly. On the other hand, the petrol is next to nothing for us Brits so we can afford too floor the pedal everytime.
So go to florida if you want to pass everyone you see!!
Oh, and btw.. keeps your doors locked just like i do in the uk.
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Motorwayman,
"So go to florida if you want to pass everyone you see!!"
I've taken your advice and am now in Florida!! Actually I am in the USA - mainly Florida - for several months each year.
Not certain where you were but most of the Freeways in Florida have a 70mph limit. Also if you get caught 'overtaking on the inside at 100mph plus' you will get the book thrown at you - and I mean jail(at least overnight) is a very real possibility.
C
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