Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Steve G
I was involved in a 4 vehicle RTA tonight.
The usual dual carriageway 'domino' effect accident where traffic comes to standstill and catches out one driver who knocks one car which collides with the one in front and so on...
Fortunately no one was seriously injured but the first two vehicles were badly damaged. One vehicle contained a baby just a few months old and the parents were understandably distraught because the rear window had shattered all over the baby and the father, who was bleeding from his head.
The vehicle which started the accident contained two guys who were obviously shocked and winded.I immediately dialled 999 and asked for a ambulance. To my amazement it took over a minute for the call to be transfered to the ambulance control staff.
The ambulance did arrive very quickly especially since this was in rush hour traffic.
The police arrived 40 minutes later. Apparently there were no available police units in Dorset (where the RTA happened) or Hampshire so the Wiltshire police dealt with the incident. The policemen I spoke to apologised for the time it took them to arrive.They had travelled across three counties to deal with this incident ! . Thinking about it now there response time was pretty amazing considering how far they had travelled.
This is not a dig at the emergency services because they were very good in dealing with the incident but its left me concerned because this may have been a much more serious incident and the time it took for my 999 call to be answered could be life and death in some cases.
Perhaps polices forces should be investing in more control staff and traffic cars not s************ vans ?

The police have also informed me tonight the car which started the accident has no insurance. Advice anyone ?
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Sooty Tailpipes
We had an crow-bar armed robbery with 5 masked men where I worked almost exactly a year ago, we (the staff) caught them in a room steeling £30,000 worth of computers, all hell broke loose, and the Police were informed twice of a robbery in progress and came along over two hours later. They are useless, get a weapon, because when there's someone in your house, you'll be on your own. I thought this was a one off, yet it has happened since after I reported vehicle theft in progress as posted on here, and someone at work who was robbed of a phone and beaten and had a broken ankle as they tripped running away was asked "are you sure you aren't just after a new mobile?"
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - PhilW
My wife was at a talk given to local schoolchildren by the police (drugs or something. The PC was asked why there was often a police car and/or an ambulance on a special parking place on a roundabout nearby. The answer was that they were the only ones left in the county that could respond to a call at that time and the roundabout was convenient for response because from it they could get into the city, around the city via the by-pass, onto the M1 via the by -pass and to most parts of the county quicker than from the hospital or police station in the city. Almost every time we pass that roundabout there is a police car and/or ambulance there which suggests that at any time of the day resources are stretched to the absolute limit. Of course the copper also added that if there is nothing parked there it's not the time to have an accident/medical emergency 'cos every policeman/medic is busy somewhere! No wonder we sometimes don't get an immediate response- but I wonder whether it is always the police/medics that are to blame?.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Dynamic Dave

Before this becomes yet another one of those 'police ranting' or 'ACAB' type threads, any non motoring related posts will be deleted.
--
Dynamic Dave
Back Room Moderator

mailto:dave_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Dwight Van Driver
Oh dear, but even in the good old halcyon days blips like this occurred when demand outstripped supply particularly at weekends but not at the rate that it happening now.

Ploddaughter tells me what cover there is at times and I am astounded for establishment fiqures are up, both uniform and civilian with no vacancies. But no Country Beat men, no Traffic etc, etc, it appears the Blackhole syndrome is on earth and they are just disappearing.

To me the thin blue line snapped some years ago and a third rate fire brigade style cover now in operation.

Time for another Royal Commission me thinks.

DVD
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Jehovah
PhilW - the policeman may have been right about these being the only emergency vehicles, but a more plausible explanation is some v clever statistical analysis which has been done by certain ambulance trusts/police forces etc. in the past few years re. the quickest way to get emergency vehicles to the "hotspots", especially in congestion.In certain situations its better to have some units parked away from base, hence the sight of emergency vehicles apparently having a feet-up session in laybys.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - frostbite
I don\'t know where (or indeed if) this happened:-

A woman discovered two men in her garage, attempting to steal her car. She phoned the police, only to be told \'we don\'t have anyone available right now, but we will send someone when we can\'.

Five minutes later, she called them back and said, \'There is no need to rush, I have just shot them\'.

Within a few minutes, two traffic cars, an ARV and a dog van arrived and a helicopter could be heard overhead.

They took the intruders away, and the senior officer said to the woman \'I thought you said you\'d shot them\'.

\'I thought you said there was no-one available\', she replied.

I deleted a variation of this apocryphal tale earlier, only to see this version pop up. Not motoring, not true, but left here to stop me deleting another 37 versions of it at some point today. ND
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - volvoman
What a nightmare Steve!
I know just how you feel because in the last few months we've had to call an ambulance for my youngest son twice and on both occasions we got a recorded announcement telling us all the operators were busy!! The second time it took several attemtps to get through to the emergency operator let alone request the ambulance. It's all very worrying and made worse by the fact that so many morons ring 999 when they've burned the toast or can't find their cat! Recently in London the ambulance service has apparently started refusing to respond to certain types of call because they're not real emergencies. It'll be interesting to see how the new policy works but something needs to be done about this situation urgently.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Steve G
Volvoman, its worrying to here that you also experienced this.
Thankfully nobody required immediate attention in this case.

Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - 8 ball
If you need an emergency response call the Fire Brigade. They're still working pretty much to the pre-Bain Report standards of cover and will get a fire engine to you (normally) in 20 mins in a rural area; 8-10 mins suburbia; and 5 mins city or motorway. Make the most of it though - 'modernisation' will see standards become like the police & ambulance are now, I'm told.
Festive wishes to you all.
8 ball
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Ivor E Tower
I wish I could emigrate (from the UK).
Yet another example of falling standards despite increasing levels of taxation.
I have hardly seen any police cars on local roads in the nearly-8 years that I have lived at my present address; maybe because I am less than 3 miles from the Surrey/Hants/Berks intersection, all 3 forces think that this is on the outer limits of their territory and prefer to keep their officers closer to the centre of their respective "patches"?
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - John Shelton
When I lived in a small village a mere 2 miles from the nearerst fire station it took them 25 minutes to arrive when my car wiring shorted and the underbonnet area went up. More recently, had to call the fire service out to a supermarket car park less than half a mile from a retained fire station to a small fire, it took them 20 minutes to arrive by which time the fire had almost burned itself out. We used to have a HP or TL based at a local station and it was taken away so we have no waay of fighting fires or rescuing persons over 35 feet above ground level as the nearest HP is about 40 minutes response time away. Also we used (back in the 80's) to have an ERF Pump escape with 50 foot wheeled escape ladder based at a local station, now all we have are pumps with 35 foot ladders. so if your on the roof it looks like a big jump is in order.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - henry k
It's all very worrying

It'll be interesting to see how the new policy works but
something needs to be done about this situation urgently.

>>
A senior paramedic told me that their ambulances now only have one stretcher position not two. All to do with Health & Safety regulations.
This must adversely affect their response times.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - volvoman
Henry - I've long been banging on about the impact of H&S, insurance and data protection requirements. This seems to be yet another crazy example of an ill conceived set of rules designed to protect one group of people which, in the real world, has just the opposite effect on another. So are we now going to need twice as many ambulances and paramedics to do the same job ?

There may be light at the end of the tunnel though because, apparently, the Data Protection act is going to be reviewed (AT LAST!!!) to prevent serious conflicts of interest like those exposed in the Soham case and more recently with the death of 2 pensioners whose gas had apparently been cut off but whose names couldn't be passed to social services because of the DP regulations. Let's hope the 'government' sees sense and does something about these crazy situations which are increasingly affecting many aspects of our lives.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - No Do$h
Although I agree with the seriousness of the problem outlined by Volvoman in the previous post, this thread has drifted a long way from Emergency Service response times and therefore motoring.

Please remember that this is not a political forum.

Back to motoring, or the thread gets locked.

No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - hxj

The major problem with the emergency services is their huge inefficiences, and no it is not a political statement, simply a fact.

The vast majority of fires do not require a full tender turnout and very few thankfully involve a risk to life. Similarly the vast majority of ambulance calls involve one patient.

In most areas the traditional ambulances are being replaced by single crewed Rapid Respose Vehicles, which speed up response times can access more areas and therefore save more lives. They have no stretcher space. For the vast majority of cases time to hospital is not critical to outcome. It is time to stabilisation of the injury/problem which can be performed equally well and faster by an RRV rather than a traditional ambulance.

If a ride to the hospital is required then a traditional ambulance will be called.

To bring it full circle I don't know if any one else has picked up on this:

www.highways.gov.uk/news/translink/2003_08/01.htm
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - AdrianM
I wonder how many emergency service vehicles are called out unnecessarily. After my recent prang - rear end shunt, just two cars but both quite well damaged, nobody hurt - the recovery man (who I guess must have more experience of these matters than me or the other guy) was very surprised that we hadn't informed the police. Surely this would just have resulted in more hassle/paperwork all round, for us and the police.

Though I guess if I had doubted the integrety of the other driver I might have called the police.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Ivor E Tower
ISTR that if an ambulance is called to an RTA, they will automatically get the police to attend too. Don't know why though.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - David Horn
If someone is injured I believe it is a legal requirement to call the Police.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Ivor E Tower
Don't know about that - if someone sees an accident and thinks that someone MAY be hurt, without knowing for sure, so calls for an ambulance as a precaution, the police are still called by the ambulance service before the ambulance has reached the scene and therefore before they know if anyone really is injured.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - PoloGirl
Quite happy to be corrected on this but the situation as I've come to understand it is...

The police are only actually required to attend road traffic collisions if people are injured OR one of the vehicles concerned is damaged sufficiently enough that it might be a write-off. They might attend also if the collision is causing a further hazard to other vehicles (e.g if it's blocking a road or on a bend).

When you dial 999, if you ask for the police first, the operators are trained to ask enough about the incident to see if any of the above criteria apply, and if they don't, they advise the caller on what to do (swap details etc). The details are then passed on to the ambulance service if necessary.

If you ask for the ambulance first, the ambulance is dispatched and then the call is patched through to the police dispatcher as the assumption is made that people are injured. They stay in contact so that whoever gets there first can advise the other if they are not required.

If people are not so badly injured that they need to go to hospital, they can report the collision at their local police station within a certain amount of time (not sure, but I think it might be 7 days), which takes away the need for police to attend.

Not sure if that's actually how you spell dispatched, but hope that's clearish.

Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - John Shelton
Pologirl, you are correct when you say that Police are required to attend if someone is injured and the injured person is reuired to report the accident to the police immediately., they currently must attend if the vehicles are blocking the highway Ie causing a harzard, but the actual damage to the vhicle has nothing to do with it as it is the drivers responsibilty to clear up their vehicle from the sie, not the police. Unless they are causing a hazard. The ambulance service and the police service are 2 completely seperate organisations they do not have a compatible radio system and so cannot talk to each other, there is no communication between patrol officers and the ambulance service, its all done via the polices or ambulance services central control room seperately If the police come across and injury accident they ask the police control room to ring the emergency 999 operator who puts the police control room in touch with the ambulance service who then call out an ambulance. Police vehicles cannot and never have been able to communicate with ambulances (or fire service ) for that matter. Also the police are not allowed to give a medical opinion, so once an ambulance is called it cannot be cancelled by the police same goes for fire service. If the fire service code of practice says an incident needs 2 pumps and a crash tender then that is what is sent irrespective of what the police may feel. And as fire police and ambulance are NOT in contact with one another via radio then they all act independantly.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Dwight Van Driver
Firstly, IIRC, there is no Statutory authority REQUIRING the Police to attend the scene of an accident. They do so as part of their many services to Joe Public.

Long ago, when you believed in Santa Claus, virtually all accidents were reported to the Police or Ambulance. Each service cross checked to make sure the other aware, with Ambulances attending scenes when not required but as a safeguard. Fire were called if a known reason for their attendance was present.

Police had to submit a file on each accident, whether injury or not and due care etc routinely reported and taken to Court.

Along the line, it was decided that as far as non injury accidents were concerned these were time consuming and Plod working for Insurance Companys and minor non injury accidents could be resolved by exchanging names and addresses. If Plod attended such accidents to clear obstruction, then no paperwork unless a glaring offence committed. File has to be submitted on injury accidents.

Trend now for Multi Emergency Service Control Rooms, there is one of the first up North, where Police,Fire and Ambulance share
the same Control Room/Building.

DVD
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - John Shelton
DVD where are these joint control rooms "Up-north" Im based in the East Midlands and neither my force neither any of our bordering forces have any plans for a joint control room. We have just had "airwave" Tetra installed and its totally independant of any other emergency services and Im not aware of fire or ambulance going ahead with it up t now. Also as you are no doubt aware, Its each forces cheif who decides "operational rules" and ours are that all injury RTC's must be attended. As far as joint control rooms go the Ambulance service have recently opened a new Control room of their own close to a major hospital so unless there is some kind of joint funding system in progress I cant see this force sharing facilities any time soon. Also bear in mind that our local ambulance service covers 3 county's (EMAS), wheras police and fire are still seperate and still county based.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - PoloGirl
>>there
is no communication between patrol officers and the ambulance service, its
all done via the polices or ambulance services central control room


That's what I meant - sorry!

>>Also the police are not allowed to give
a medical opinion, so once an ambulance is called it cannot
be cancelled by the police same goes for fire service.


Yes but in the real world away from Codes of practice, the first service on the scene of an accident *does* let the others know whether they are required. e.g if anxious people had called police and ambulance to a collision, and the police got there first and there was noone injured, the police ask their control room to let the ambulance know they weren't needed. From personal experience I've seen this happen at least twice in different force areas.

Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Reggie
John, I believe joint control rooms are to be found in Middlesborough and I think, Hull. I'm not aware of any others.
Reggie
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - John Shelton
HI pologirl, happy Christmas, and to Reggie too. Yes PG the first on scene does let the other services know what is needed and I have done so myself on numerous occassions, but in one case the rapid respnse paramedic was cancelled, but he came anyway and we were told it was not right to cancel him because only he could give an opinion as to injuries. Joint control rooms would however make a lot of sense, but I beleive the main difficulty is to find the funding for them. At the moment, a lot of 999 cals are handled by a massive emergency operator centre in Glasgow, before being diverted to each service at a local level. But in my area, as ive said we dont have a county based ambulance service. EMAS covers 3 counties wheras police and fire are divided into counties Oddly enough Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire share a police helicopter on a 50/50 funding basis, but Leicestershire have their own (or had )One has to remeber that in reality there is no homogeneity in this area, the "East Midlands" is a purely politcal creation as we cover from near the Greater Manchester border in the North right down to Leicestershire in the south which is a massive area of central England. There have been times when a traffic car in our county has had to drive over an hour to get to an RTC due to non availibilty of local units or other traffic cars., this is down to too few officers covering a big rural area but one where there are all too many traffic accident blackspots. I see that the Highways Agency is looking at implementing its new plan for "Road Traffic Officers" to patrol our motorways with the police. At least it may take off the burden of doing more mindane "Oversize load" escort duties from the police and deal with minor incidents.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Dwight Van Driver
Reported earlier this year in our Rgeional (hic) Newspaper that Cleveland was the first to have a multi agency control room but initially there were some objections from the Unions. Was going to confirm tomorrow that it was up and running. Meanwhile in Hawkeyes country, a beloved old majestic (hic) Police Station with cells, Court House and Sergeants Flat has met the axe and Police now lodged with Fire Brigade in Town centre. All down to economi (hic)s.

Meanwhile John Shelton another of your duties to be taken away and civilianised - VOSA, in garish dress, are to be given the power to stop vehicles at their checks. Get Form 1 in to becoma a Div,div (hic) ersity Officer.

Phew that brandy sauce is rich.

DVD Crash.
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - John Shelton
Most traffic police would be pleased to not have to escort oversize loads at 25 mph up the M1 and concentrate on nicking uninsured and unlicesenced drivers and pro car twoce'rs and burglars en route to and from a job.

PS. Ive already had my "diversity" course and I was the only one in my office to fully complete the booklet.......LOL
Police RTA response time - 40 Minutes ! - Fullchat
Reggie

Its a no to a joint control in Hull (Humberside). Had TENYAS (Ambulance) in the same building for a while but they moved out to York.


Fullchat
 

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