motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

Recently my renewal came in from LV. They are usually quite good and can cut a deal. However this time a decent hike and no deal. So through a website I chose RCIB which turns out is a broker in Essex. I purchased the insurance using the same details I always use with my Daughter as a named driver. They took the money and the insurance started on 24/09/2020. So far so good. Two days ago I received an e mail asking me to provide DVLA codes and proof of driving licence etc. Quite a few hops to jump through considering the insurance has been in place for a couple of weeks and this question never came up on the proposal form. I contacted them, very difficult, left a message and they rang me back. They were quite shirty about the whole thing and almost demanded my compliance. I said I was not prepared to do all this work for their benefit. If they felt the need they can check the DVLA themselves. They said I should scan my licence and my daughters licence and e mail it to them. I said I am not happy to send such vital personal information via e mail. They said they could cancel the policy if I did not comply. I asked why the need for such information when previous insurers did not need it. They said it was in case of a claim and everything would work more smoothly. I laughed at this, which upset them a bit. I said in the event of a claim they would trawl through the whole proposal and policy to find a reason to reject or reduce the claim anyway, I left it that I would discuss it with my daughter and decide. She was not keen on this idea either. She is a serving police officer with good experience on traffic cars and the law in general and couldn't see the need for this information. I am now going to do nothing and see what they do. They may decide to leave it or not. Either way I am prepared to cancel and re-insure elsewhere. Near the end now!

Questions that remain are: If they cancel before I do will it go on my record as insurance refused? Also would they have the right to charge a cancellation fee? I am prepared to pay a pro-rata rate of however many days by a 365th of the premium but no more. If they take a fee from the refund is it a small claims matter to recover it?

I know there are some fine legal brains out there and it is a small matter but a larger principle. I feel like I am being bullied here and I don't like it one bit.

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - daveyjp

Most insurance companies now request licence numbers, but you are under no obligation to provide them, I never do.

However, if they cancel one question you will be asked when next getting quotes is "have you ever had insurance refused or cancelled?". Saying yes to this simply opens more lines of enquiry, so ensure it is you that cancels (which may cost you).

Its always worth a quick Google for experiences.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2330305/car-insurance-avoid-insuring-with-rcib-right-choice-insurance-brokers/p13

Edited by daveyjp on 14/10/2020 at 15:30

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - brum

LV are in the throws of a potential buyout by a US investor which might explain some of the hike.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lv-close-to-sealing-500...7

IIRC You have an automatic 14 day cooling off period with opening a new or renewing a policy

By law, insurers must offer a minimum 14-day cooling-off period, during which you are entitled to cancel the policy. The cooling-off period starts when you receive your documents, or when the cover begins, whichever is the later. But the insurer can still apply a fee to cover the cost of administration

If they cancel your policy, they could very well tag it as a refusal of cover so beware.

LV ask for driver licence number so they check with DVLA if you have any convictions, penalty points, as an identity check, address check, how long youve had your licence and whether your licence is full/provisional and has the correct class of vehicle allowed

Edited by brum on 14/10/2020 at 15:40

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Lee Power

Normally your asked for the driving licence numbers at the quote stage as it saves you having to then answer a load of questions about any previous claims / driving convictions / type of licence & how long held etc.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - brum

I might add that they are perfectly within their rights to check all that has been asked. Some insurers will accept your word, and look at the MIB database, but you can bet they will check everything if you have a claim and may refuse payout if you've misled them.

Covid means many insurance companies are operating on reduced staffing and working from home etc. so normal seamless checks may not always be possible.

You didn't do yourself any favours by refusing to offer information when asked, pretty sure that could have consequences.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

You didn't do yourself any favours by refusing to offer information when asked, pretty sure that could have consequences.

I did not refuse to provide information. I said they were at liberty to check the DVLA or any other data base. I just don't see why after 3 weeks I am now asked to jump through hoops. We are also not comfortable to be e mailing such vital identification information through an internet e mail server. This subject should have been broached at proposal stage. I have completed their questions truthfully, or what is the point of insurance? In the event of a claim I bet they will trawl through everything to seek a reason to reduce or reject the claim anyway.

Given what has been said about them cancelling I think I will contact them tomorrow and cancel it myself. Had enough of officiousness hidden under the guise of 'company policy' or some other spurious reason then them expecting you to stand on your head for them. Sorry, not willing.

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - galileo

Good for you, Concrete, there are too many companies that expect customers to do unnecessary things in order to do business with them.

I changed energy suppliers because they kept emailing and ringing to persuade me to have a smart meter installed. No actual benefit to me but would have been brownie points for them under Government scheme.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - gordonbennet

Good man Concrete, i would do exactly the same.

There is so much going on in our country, and much of the supposedly free west at the moment, that we all need some genuine people to stand up and just say no.

I am doing similar in my own small way regarding the present ridiculous overreactions and really quite worrying moves from the govt of what was once a working parliament but is now a sham, with no opposition worthy of the name, issuing 'laws' by decree.

For what its worth i've found Direct Line's call centre staff to be friendly and efficient, DL don't quote via the usual comparison sites, also SWMBO is still with Saga after several years, like DL they've matched or beaten other quotes at renewal time if asked...though we wouldn't ask them to match a quote from one or two of the very cheapest one might find due to bad feedback for those cheapies, fair play works both ways.

edit, had a feeling my old friend Galileo might have a similar view :-) beat me to it as well, regards to you too.

Edited by gordonbennet on 15/10/2020 at 17:11

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Andrew-T

Given what has been said about them cancelling I think I will contact them tomorrow and cancel it myself.

That will of course incur a cancellation fee unless you have a penalty-free cooling-off period, so you may have to pay for your principles. Presumably you may have to start from scratch with another insurer ?

I think when I started a new policy recently I was asked to supply the last 5 characters of my licence ID so they could check that. I have no problem with insurers checking that my licence is active or clear - it seems a relevant thing to do.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Engineer Andy

As discussed on a recent News item (about one to two weeks ago), I also had issues with my long-term car insurer (esure) jacking up the price this year, despite my circumstances not changing - even as a result of lockdown. Unlike in most previous years, they didn't budge on price at all, so I'm now with another provider.

I've never heard of the hoops that concrete has been told to go through when changing, as I have a named driver on my insurance (my sister, for emergency puroses) and no insurer has yet asked for anything via email other than my proof of no-claims bonus.

It may be that in this case they are a broker and not a direct insurer, where any such details would be entered via (hopefully) a secure website when getting a quote - screenscrapers included. I suspect insurers have gone over to such systems to reduce fraud.

Still, given firms and organisations don't exactly have a great track record on privacy and use of customers' details, I'd always be wary.

Liverpool Victoria - Zippy123

I thought they were a "friendly society". Previously service from them has been very good.

Shame if it's being sold off.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - drd63

LV sold their motor and general insurance to Allianz earlier in the year - It is the life and pensions business which is looking likely to be sold to an American VC company.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Avant

"Two days ago I received an e mail asking me to provide DVLA codes and proof of driving licence etc."

Was this from the broker or the insurers themselves? To do this after the insurance has started seems unusual and has a good chance of being dodgy.

Any extra request for information, especially by Email, may be a scam and I'm sure you're quite right not to give any more information until you know more. If the Email came from the broker, you could perhaps check with the actual insurers.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - leef

Tough one, I get your stance of "you don't need this info" etc, Ive personally no problem in providing my driving license number to an insurance company, Ive nothing to hide and they can do all the checks they want, I got asked from Swinton for my licence number and proof of no claims a couple weeks after being insuraned. It took 10 minutes of my time and I don't look at it as "jumping through hoops" seems a reasonable request for me. I'm only 42 so not yet as grumpy as some on here :) so that might change in a few years. Before any ges upset, thats my opinion on this and not saying anyone else is wrong to "stick it to the man" just my 2 pence worth. Good luck Concrete in sorting, but do be very careful of it going against you as insurnce led cancelled as it can cause you issues for a long time. Let us know how you get on.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Gibbo_Wirral

Tough one, I get your stance of "you don't need this info" etc, Ive personally no problem in providing my driving license number to an insurance company, Ive nothing to hide and they can do all the checks they want

Same. If it helps speed up the process and gives me cheap insurance I'll all for it.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - _ORB_

It was 6 years ago when I changed to LV just as we moved to Colchester and they asked me to scan our licences at that time. Direct to their email address.

No problem, and till this year they didn't charge for changes...

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Engineer Andy

It was 6 years ago when I changed to LV just as we moved to Colchester and they asked me to scan our licences at that time. Direct to their email address.

No problem, and till this year they didn't charge for changes...

To be honest, that was one of the reasons why I stayed with esure for so long, but having to pay £75 - £100pa more this year for the priviledge over otherwise similar providers wasn't worth. The difference was a lot less in previous years. Their loss.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - _ORB_

It was 6 years ago when I changed to LV just as we moved to Colchester and they asked me to scan our licences at that time. Direct to their email address.

No problem, and till this year they didn't charge for changes...

To be honest, that was one of the reasons why I stayed with esure for so long, but having to pay £75 - £100pa more this year for the priviledge over otherwise similar providers wasn't worth. The difference was a lot less in previous years. Their loss.

LV let you do minor changes online now, so no admin fees.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

Thank you for all the comments men, now an update. I contacted the brokers, RCIB in Essex, who are an LV appointed broker agency. I spoke to a more reasonable person but they were still intransigent about this. Even when I pointed out that I went through the comparison website and entered our DVLA details they insisted I e mail them a scan of our licences. That is where we parted company. I cancelled the policy, not them and there will be a small fee of £25 but worth it to be rid of these vexatious people. They would not acknowledge their error at proposal stage nor our need for security with such personal information over an internet server. I offered to read out the details but that was unacceptable. Ridiculous.

Insured with another provider within the hour and no real cost incurred. Their loss is someone else's gain. Will not be pushed around by pettifogging little inefficient pen pushers when it is so easy to get it right. There now, feel better now. Time for a lie down!!!!

Cheers to all, have a nice weekend. Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Andrew-T

Will not be pushed around by pettifogging little inefficient pen pushers when it is so easy to get it right. There now, feel better now. Time for a lie down!!!!

Sounds as if you feel that was £25 well spent .... :-)

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - _ORB_

Will not be pushed around by pettifogging little inefficient pen pushers when it is so easy to get it right. There now, feel better now. Time for a lie down!!!!

Sounds as if you feel that was £25 well spent .... :-)

Sometimes it is worth it!

Last summer (2019) i got 2 sim cards with anetwork that offered free phone calls in the USA and immediately ran into reception problems for both phones.

The contracts were for 12 months at a rate of £10 a month for unlimited calls and 10Gb of data.

I had a fight to pay only the contract cancellation fee as the network claimed it was a "discounted rate" for a 12 month contract and by cancelling I should pay the normal rate, but eventually when I got throught to an English speaking person at Head Office in Glasgow they saw sense, and I paid 10 months at the £10 cost less a 20% discount.

Then the bills and warning letters started AFTER i had paid..

I let it run till I had received 3 letters for each contract and the sent a letter before action and claimed £50 each for harassment or i would go via small claims court.

Was given an apology (systems error) (my foot) and eventually refunded.

It cost me something to get out of the contracts, but the feeling of relief.. was worth it.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - brum

Not sure about the exact sequence of events, but if Concrete didnt renew with LV and took out this new, now cancelled, policy online, such that the LV policy expired and he was then covered for a few days by the new policy......does this mean he will now need to obtain his proof of no claims bonus from the new insurer which he has now cancelled to satisfy the requirements of his next insurer?

Edited by brum on 16/10/2020 at 20:21

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Andrew-T

....does this mean he will now need to obtain his proof of no claims bonus from the new insurer which he has now cancelled to satisfy the requirements of his next insurer?

In my experience previous proof of NCB remains acceptable for several months, maybe a year, after a policy terminates. It doesn't have to come from your most recent insurer. A question may be raised about cancellation I suppose.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - brum

....does this mean he will now need to obtain his proof of no claims bonus from the new insurer which he has now cancelled to satisfy the requirements of his next insurer?

In my experience previous proof of NCB remains acceptable for several months, maybe a year, after a policy terminates.

If you suspend or dont reinsure (because you don't have a car) most companies usually accept up to a 2 year gap in insurance cover.

It doesn't have to come from your most recent insurer?? That surely is nonsense, as you may have had claims or accidents in the meantime. That would be an easy get out for dishonest people.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - RT

....does this mean he will now need to obtain his proof of no claims bonus from the new insurer which he has now cancelled to satisfy the requirements of his next insurer?

In my experience previous proof of NCB remains acceptable for several months, maybe a year, after a policy terminates.

If you suspend or dont reinsure (because you don't have a car) most companies usually accept up to a 2 year gap in insurance cover.

It doesn't have to come from your most recent insurer?? That surely is nonsense, as you may have had claims or accidents in the meantime. That would be an easy get out for dishonest people.

NCD history and claims history are two separate things - I have protected NCD so always declare maximum NCD but and claims have to be declared separately.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

An update to answer the further comments.

I cancelled, which according to the T&C's I could do via e mail, which I did. I cancelled and reinsured within the hour on 16/10/2020. The new provider was found on a website of the usual suspects. DVLA details put in again and a statement about no claims history. The new insurer accepted all this and I paid up. Actually getting a few extras over and above my previous policy, so very happy. When cancelling I requested an acknowledgement of the cancellation and also a breakdown of their charges for insurance to the 16/10/20 and the cancellation fee. All clearly defined in the T&C's. Guess what?

I go from being hounded to total silence. On the 20th I e mailed requesting an acknowledgement and an update. Today, 21st I received an e mail stating that they need to speak to me again to go through what they describe as 'a cancellation quote', whatever the heck that is when it's at home. I e mailed back to tel them not to bother calling me as I have no intention of going through this rigmarole. I asked them again to simply comply with my request, according to their own T&C's, and send me an acknowledgement and a breakdown of cost incurred. Not an unreasonable request I think. Quite frankly I just want shot of these people. They are without doubt the most vexatious people to deal with. Please avoid RCIB insurance at all costs. No matter how competitive they may be they will drive you scatty!

I am now awaiting their response. I really feel like retaliating. I know it is churlish but I feel they have overstepped the mark in terms of customer service. I suppose there must be an official body that oversees the insurance brokers that I can contact.

What do I need to do to be free of these people????

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - brum

The only RCIB I can find are insurance brokers, ie intermediaries. I can't find anything in their terms published on their website that says you can cancel by email.

Emails are always a bad alternative to a telephone call. Unless they acknowledge it, it doesn't form any legal contract. They are generally an insecure method of communication.

What is clear is you exceeded the 14 day cooling off period before you sent the email. You now need to agree with them what charges are levied for cancellation which are explained in some detail in the terms on their website before they can request a cancellation from whoever is the underwiting insurer. Hefty charges look likely, judging from the terms, £60 fee plus pro rata refund of unused portion and lost comission....see below..... Any extras such as breakdown are non refundable....I wonder if NCD protection, legal cover etc are such "extras"

This is why its important to read small print and act before the 14 day period expires.

"We will deduct a cancellation fee of £60 plus any other applicable service charges that you have incurred during the course of your policy from any refund provided by your insurer. We will also retain 15% of any refund provided by your insurer in lieu of lost commission. If your policy is being paid by instalments the cancellation of finance charge will also apply. Where we receive no commission from the insurer, the fee applied in lieu of commission will be retained in full.

If the refund provided by the insurer is insufficient to cover our charges you will be required to pay the balance to us.

After the 14-day cooling off period has expired, breakdown, excess reimbursement and other purchased add-on premiums are payable in full."

Even LV has a nasty hidden in their terms that I fell foul of, meaning I couldn't cancel without losing a complete years payment of premium i had made for next years renewal. A claim before the end of the previous year after renewal for next year meant no refunds......

Fingers crossed you sort it without too much further pain, however you should look pragmatically at how much your refusal to cooperate has cost you.

Btw now I know they are brokers, they probably do not have the same rights of access as an authorised insurer to the DVLA database hence the requests for DVLA codes or photocopies of licences. As would any car hire company do.

Edited by brum on 21/10/2020 at 17:59

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Steveieb

As I long serving civil servant I was with Frizzel insurance and one of my colleagues was the agent in our office complete with a book of temporary cover notes.

Then we heard it would be taken over by LV but there would be no changes ! Same thing with the Civil Service Motoring Association which was taken over too and renamed Boundless.

But they have various properties and leisure complexes including a museum at Bourton. Which must be quite an asset .

i do hope things don’t change because my experience has been brilliant!

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

Well Brum, I appear to have an entirely different set of T&C's to you. I am quoting the ones sent to me with the policy details by RCIB. Cancel by e mail is acceptable. £25 cancellation fee. Even after all that my new policy is such value and includes extras not on the RCIB policy, that the whole exercise is virtually cost neutral. Which is fine, but even a small cost would have been acceptable to be free from these people.

If RCIB don't have access to the DVLA database then why did the comparison website ask for DVLA details about the drivers. Surely they could access this seeing as the website put them forward as a potential provider. I was, and am still adamant that I am not sending vital identity information via internet based e mail servers. As for your point about the car hire, I have always produced my licence for inspection when hiring. A bit different to scanning and e mailing you will agree.

As for your comment about me not being co-operative, I disagree. I refer you to my earlier point about security. Also you missed the point about all this so called vital information not being asked for during the proposal stage. Not AFTER the policy was issued. My co-operation was to the full when requesting and accepting a quote. What more could I do? Their job for them and ask them if they needed my licence details? I think not.

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Westbury33

From your first post "They took the money". They didnt take anything. You paid the premium for the contract you agreed to enter into. You were subsequently asked for additional information and took umbrage, much like when paying the premium you agreed to.

I think the original brokers will be quite glad to have lost your custom!

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

From your first post "They took the money". They didnt take anything. You paid the premium for the contract you agreed to enter into. You were subsequently asked for additional information and took umbrage, much like when paying the premium you agreed to.

I think the original brokers will be quite glad to have lost your custom!

They did take the money. From my credit card a few days after the acceptance. Of course I agreed a contract and so did they. Subsequently requiring more information to do what? The contract was agreed and paid. Done deal. You are missing the point here: I will repeat it for the last time.

I gave DVLA details on the proposal website. They have access to this.

I was not happy to scan and e mail sensitive information over an internet e mail service.

I offered the details verbally or they could send someone to look.

Can you tell me why you think I am at fault here for expecting them to get the whole thing correct at the proposal stage? I suppose you would be willing to provide such information over internet e mail, that is your affair.They could not be any more please than I that we are shot of each other.

Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

PS. To clarify, I use the term 'took the money' as an indication that the deal was done and they are happy with it. If you take the money you form a contract.

Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - _ORB_

I'm with you Concrete.

There are times when"we" have had enough of poor service and sometimes take the choice to go elswhere.

Recent, new phone, when broke the old one, new washing machine, sorry can't deliver so cancelled went to a competitor opposite(collected myself) Tumble dryer, got a suitable one that was available then told after placing order will deliver when in stock... but you wre showing available for delivery in 5 days.. so cancelled and went elsewhere..

The list could be endless.. I have done the same with car purchases and with car insurance.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Andrew-T

There are times when"we" have had enough of poor service and sometimes take the choice to go elsewhere.

The list could be endless.. I have done the same with car purchases and with car insurance.

I tend to agree. Walk-away behaviour can give one a sense of satisfaction and superiority, but it may not solve the immediate problem, which may require some swallowing of pride, and maybe even spending more :-(

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - focussed

An explanation taken from:-

www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2018/11/why-do-insurance...y.

"It’s common for insurance companies to request copies of your documentation when issuing a new policy. However, many drivers are left wondering exactly what purpose this serves.

While providing a copy of your driving licence and other documents may be a minor hassle, insurers have a legitimate reason for carrying out a DVLA licence check. In fact, ensuring all policyholders provide full and accurate information regarding past convictions and penalties can actually save you money.

In the event of an accident, anyone found to have withheld information from their insurance provider runs the risk of their claim being invalid. Under the Road Traffic Act, it’s the insurer who is liable to pay for any third-party losses. Validating the accuracy of the information provided reduces the likelihood of this happening, with savings that can be passed down directly to you"

It's procedure in France for the Insurer's agent to request your licence, UK or French, when you insure the vehicle, they put it on the copier and the copy goes in your file.

Also, when registering a vehicle at least one of the registered owners has to have a valid licence to drive that vehicle - as in my motorcycles, OH does not have a moto licence but is a co-owner on the registration document.

Edited by focussed on 25/10/2020 at 11:05

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2018/11/why-do-insurance...y

Just a couple of points Focussed.

I gave DVLA details at the comparison website along with all other information requested. Why on earth should they later ask for the same information. Especially scanned and e mailed?

It is so ridiculously stupid to give false information. In the event of a claim they will trawl through heaven and hell to find a reason to reduce or reject the claim. So this point about getting it right is rubbish, getting it right at the proposal stage is the way to do it correctly.

France may well do what is suggested. I for one regard my licence as a bone fide and vital method of identification and would not be comfortable with anyone else holding a copy of it. Checking the DVLA database is one thing, a hard copy is another.

I am not paranoid about this but I regard being sensible with very important information which could, in the wrong hands be detrimental to you, as a duty everyone owes to themselves.

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - focussed

A small point, a french licence does not have the licence holder's address on it, so it is not used as an ID document, we have an ID card for that.

As far as I know, nor does any other european country.

I don't really understand why you think that providing an insurance company with your licence details is so fraught with security concerns.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

A small point, a french licence does not have the licence holder's address on it, so it is not used as an ID document, we have an ID card for that.

As far as I know, nor does any other european country.

I don't really understand why you think that providing an insurance company with your licence details is so fraught with security concerns.

You answered your own question. UK licenses have photo ID and address details on them, as such they are an acceptable form of ID to banks, police etc etc. I thought not being willing to scan and e mail information on an internet e mail system would need any explanation.

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - focussed

"I thought not being willing to scan and e mail information on an internet e mail system would need any explanation"

So explain it anyway please.

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

The internet is not a secure environment and e mail certainly is not. It is a small but real chance any information could be hacked or copied. It is a risk I am not prepared to take using a virtually public forum. My daughter a named driver agrees with me. She also explained it to a colleague in E Crimes and he also agrees with us entirely.

Beside which the details were entered into the proposal form on the more secure site of the comparison company. These details are accessible to all associate companies that are willing to quote on the site. Otherwise how could they quote? Ergo this information should have been in their possession if they were doing their job correctly. I will not apologise for being careful with my sensitive identity information. If others took a similar approach then the amount of scams we read about would reduce. Surely any information the insurer regards as vital should be gleaned BEFORE they quote, never mind accept the money and risk then decide they need more. Is it me? Do you think I am too fussy because I expect them to be diligent? I think I have explained this point previously throughout this thread. That is my position and I am entitled to it,

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - focussed

The likelihood of the copy of your DL or personal information or whatever being intercepted while in an electronic format on it's way from you to whoever you are sending to is extremely remote. On the contrary, regardless of how you send the information, whether it be email, snail mail, by phone or in person, at some time the information is going to be in clear text on somebody's desk to enable somebody to read it, that is the real risk.

An example, not quite the same but you should get the picture.

As I live in France I buy quite a lot of items from the UK using my UK Visa card, using the secure website merchant facility we are all familiar with, checking that the "https" security is present - I have never had a problem with that in the 11 years I have been in france.The https url means the information is encrypted within a server somewhere and only the last four numerals of the credit card number are visible.

But twice I have encountered the situation where I have had to reluctantly give the credit card number over the phone - a telephone order, which means somebody has to write the number down on a credit card merchant slip.

Both times with reputable limited companies, both times there was funny business afterwards, one was spurious transactions appearing on my account and the other a warning from Barclaycard that my credit card number had been hawked around cash machines in a northern town on the day I put the order through, presumably by a staff member trying to guess the pin code.

Both times I complained to the company concerned and got nowhere,

So this illustrates that electronica is as secure as it can be - other methods less so!

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - concrete

That is your opinion focussed and I have no problem with that at all. I however hold a different one. Maybe the risk is small but an internet e mail is riskier than a secure padlocked site. That is a risk I am not taking. Especially in view of, an often forgotten point, all these details were on the comparison site website for them to access and quote my premium. So why ask me for them again by a method of which I have no confidence of being secure?

As I said that is my position and I am happy to hold it. If others disagree then they disagree and do what they are comfortable with. I also have my daughters backing on this. We are named drivers on each others policy. She is a seasoned long serving police officer who sees the risks for what they are. Small maybe but real none the less. Eradicate or reduce the risk and you are more secure. Not paranoid, but common sense in our view.

Thanks for your comments and I hope things in France improve soon, as I hope they do here too. This new lockdown is real bummer.

Cheers Concrete

motor insurance: a bit OTT? - Andrew-T

She is a seasoned long serving police officer who sees the risks for what they are. Small maybe but real none the less. Eradicate or reduce the risk and you are more secure.

This is a reflection on life in general. Everyday behaviour is based on habit, which has been learnt almost since birth, allowing for risks seen as significant and ignoring others, which very occasionally come to pass. Young people take more risk, perhaps partly because that is their nature and partly because they don't take kindly to advice. Crossing a busy road is one risk, getting habituated to drugs is another.

One philosophical question is how one can allow for the very tiny risk of a mammoth catastrophe. This country was not prepared for Covid, though the risk of that should perhaps have been thought higher.

 

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