servicing by numbers-which is best?

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Sat 15 Aug 2015 18:30
servicing by numbers-which is best? - concrete

The old chestnut returns. In todays Telegraph Cars, HJ recommends that oil should be changed every 10K miles, presumably regardless of what type of miles i.e. town miles, motorway miles, urban miles. Personally I think there is a place for extended mileage service regimes. When I bought my Skoda Superb 1.9Tdi 130 PD nearly 10 years ago I discussed it with the dealer service manager. I was still working then and driving at least 25K miles annually. The vast majority of which (at least 90%) was motorway or major roads. Very little town driving at all. I bought the car to come out of the company car scheme and reclaim my mileage at the HMRC allowed rates, so it was important to get it right about service costs and balance the effect upon the car. The dealer was very good and recommended that with my mileage and usage the extended services made sense. I had to use very expensive long life oil in the engine but apart from that servicing costs were the same. The electronics used to indicate a service requirement about every 18 to 19K miles which was about every 8 to 9 months. I also bought a 4 litre bottle of the same long life oil for top ups in between.

To date the car has nearly 200k miles on the clock. It has been serviced as recommended. I have used about 3 litres of the top up oil. The engine is as sweet as a nut. Starts first time every time and does not blow any smoke except when accelerating hard. It has original exhaust, clutch, battery etc and all in all is a very good car still. On top of that I still manage to average nearly 50mpg. I also claimed over £65K in mileage money and spent about £37K keeping the car. Call me a silly billy but I think my situation tells a different story about extended service regimes. Horses for courses I would think.

Cheers Concrete

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Sat 15 Aug 2015 21:04
servicing by numbers-which is best? - RT

I think servicing at the specified intervals with all tasks carried out and the correct fluid types is the secret of long life rather than dogmatic statements about oil change intervals.

Too often motorists just concern themselves with viscosity, eg 5W-30 and ignore the grade, eg ACEA-C3 but I think that the ACEA grade is at least as important as the viscosity.

But I have to admit, in case it makes a difference, I always halve the OCI mileage interval !

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Sat 15 Aug 2015 21:37
servicing by numbers-which is best? - csgmart

For the 'average' punter (rather then the motoring 'enthusiast' who tends to lurk on this board) it's probably better that they are advised to change their oil annually / every 10k miles. At least that way they are keeping the engine in good order.

If HJ (or any other journalist) were to recommend 25k oil change intervals (for example) I think some would slaveshly follow his advice, even if it took them several years to reach this total) and for some that could be catestrophic.

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Sat 15 Aug 2015 23:01
servicing by numbers-which is best? - daveyjp
I had an A2 1.4TDi which I traded at just over 50,000 miles. I'd owned it 2.5 years. By then it was still a few thousand off its second service due to variable intervals which with my driving were almost 30,000 miles.
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Sat 15 Aug 2015 23:04
servicing by numbers-which is best? - John F

Call me a silly billy but I think my situation tells a different story about extended service regimes. Horses for courses I would think.

Cheers Concrete

I've been called far worse for challenging the annual oil change dogma which might have had some validity 50yrs ago. If your engine is large, unstressed (no turbo), has high quality longlife oil and only travels 5K per annum I see no good reason to change it any more frequently than triennially. On the other hand, when I did a high mileage with a smaller more revvy engine I would use bog standard oil and change it every 10 or 12K miles - and got over 240,000m out of an old Passat. As for oil in classic cars that only do a few hundred miles a year........

Dogma takes a long time to eradicate - e.g. Chinese footbinding, tribal genital mutilation, etc....

As you say, concrete, horses for courses.

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Sat 15 Aug 2015 23:41
servicing by numbers-which is best? - brum

Vag are quite specific as who should/should not use the variable service regime. Iirc, its only suitable for cars driven on average 25+ miles per day, in continuous jorneys, i.e. not stop start, at light loads, e.g. medium speeds, no towing etc. My sons both drive around 20k per year and each journey is is at least 35 miles so it suits them nicely but still requires servicing at less than 12 month intervals.

The oil conditioning monitoring is pretty smart, the dealer once put in standard 502 oil in instead of the required 504 spec oil for petrol engines. Within a week or two te oil sensor had picked it up and started to wind the interval back from 2 years/18k towards 1 year/10k.

When I check the oil level, I always check the paper towel I used to wipe the dipstick with after 3 or 4 mins. Even at 18k, I've found the oil spread out is clean and golden in colour, which gives me some confidence, but only for the driving patterns my sons have.

Edited by brum on 15/08/2015 at 23:51

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 00:48
servicing by numbers-which is best? - drd63
Why would you not just follow the manufacturers recommended service intervals? Always seems to work for me and with improved quality of both engines and lubricants I would expect intervals to increase as they have done.
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Sun 16 Aug 2015 01:26
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Big John

Hmm,

Difficult one this. I also bought a Skoda Superb PD (100 in my case) nearly 10 years ago and have just sold it at about 170k miles. Likewise it still had its original exhaust, clutch and battery and still averaged well over 50mpg. I dropped to servicing once a year (12-15k) once over 5 years old, variable before then.

The problem isin 1.9 PD guise this was (and still is) a "Superb" car and probably would have "got away" with slightly inferior servicing.

I'm not sure this would be true of some cars - if you have a cam chain, more stressed turbo etc. then really clean oil essential. I used to run Saab 9000's. If you extended servicing and also didn't change auto gearbox oil etc then things would start falling to bits (cam chain, turbo, gearbox...). Change oil every 6k and gearbox oil every year then starship mileages were possible (ignoring a thirst for coil packs!)

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 10:01
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Bolt

I think it depends on materials used in an engine, ie, cam chain, some are known to stretch/break even with correct oil/filter change intervals and using High quality oils

So I`m not so sure its how regular you change oil/filter but quality of components installed in engine

I have to admitt after a problem that occured on a 1.2 2004 Kalos, 3 years old when bought, it had all servicing done at main dealer all on time if not before, just after 6th service engine siezed up on holiday, but it was going to cost too much to put new engine in so scrapped it

But I halved service time on all our cars through what happened to that, before I was 2k short of actual service time but looking back I dont think it was anything to do with the oil at all it was poor quality materials used

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 10:54
servicing by numbers-which is best? - gordonbennet

What's best is what suits you, the type of engine, the car you buy, the way you use it and treat it, the cost of additional servicing (home, indy, dealer) and how long you intend to keep it...bearing in mind that all the best plans are subject to change so maybe a bit of quiet in between DIY oil changing (scandalously cheap when compared with main dealer charges for oils fitted on site) in between scheduled chnages might be a bit of sound investment*.

What's best for me, who generally buys older well maintained cars of relatively simple design, won't be best for someone at the other extreme who buys new and gets shot of them at end of or shortly after warranty expires.

Concrete i suspect from your posts that your car has been treated with some mechanical sympathy and sensible driving, maybe you even check the oil level now and again which seems to be an increasingly rare event..:) doing 120+ where possible i regard as senible by the way, your experience might be completely different to a car thrashed from stone cold, turned off with the turbo still glowing red, and subject to repeated stop/start journeys.

*that investment in good through (over)servicing pays off when either you decide to keep the car for many years, or if you decide to sell when someone like me and i'm not alone, comes along who's prepared to pay more for a well maintained used car, indeed in some cases... German cars and those fitted with the PSA 1.6 Diesel of Doom (that'll rattle a cage or two..:-) i'm looking right at you, where some of us wouldn't give a Diesel of those origins with 20k oil changes a second glance we might consider one favourably that had been treated differently.

RobJP, i know you get main dealer in between normal service intervals on your BMW, personally i think thats a very wise move, i'd be very interested to know if that extra servicing makes the sale any easier when you come to sell, if i was in the market for a car like yours at the time and you advertised the servicing well i'd be beating a path to your door before all the others.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/08/2015 at 11:00

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 16:53
servicing by numbers-which is best? - iFocus

So my service interval is 12,500 miles (Kia Cee'd mk1) should I service it in the interim at 6250 miles or just keep to the service interval? I do 16,000 miles a year so it'll get services atleast once per year...

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 17:06
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Bolt

So my service interval is 12,500 miles (Kia Cee'd mk1) should I service it in the interim at 6250 miles or just keep to the service interval? I do 16,000 miles a year so it'll get services atleast once per year...

Interim services a long time ago only involved oil change with no filter change at between 5 and 6k miles or 6 months whichever was soonest, the rest of service was inspection and if necessary top up fluids (rarely done by the way)

they dont get that now, its as you mentioned for most cars with some longer term which to a lot of people is too long between changes, it depends on how you feel about it and how long you intend keeping the car

Only Turbo cars years ago had oil and filter change

Edited by bolt on 16/08/2015 at 17:08

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 17:36
servicing by numbers-which is best? - RT

Do an interim (oil & filter change) at 8,000 and full service at 16,000 - IF - that's enough to keep your warranty intact.

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Sun 16 Aug 2015 19:34
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Andrew-T

Horses for courses, I agree. The kind and manner of driving a car gets will make a lot of difference. But no-one yet has pointed out that buyers of new cars are encouraged, if not advised or even obliged, to stick to the terms of the maker's warranty while that lasts. It may be better for the car (in some cases) to receive more TLC than that.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 09:59
servicing by numbers-which is best? - FoxyJukebox

"....the rest of the service was just inspection"-bolt....

Yes indeed-how can one tell if your vehicle has been inspected? If you ask-what will you be told?....it's all very well booking a vehicle into a nice warm service area, having a coffee, paying the bill and getting (if you're lucky) getting your servicing book stamped. Yes-it's all done quite quickly over two hours or so--but 20 mins of that is the car wash/vac?!

Just what IS done or do you just trust the service folk?

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 10:15
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Leif

Psst: This is an old thread awoken by a spam merchant. I nearly typed sperm merchant, which would perhaps be closer to the truth ...

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 10:58
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Senexdriver
Even though it’s an old thread, could I use it to seek some advice please? My wife had a new car about 18 months ago as a retirement present. Her existing car was a 2012 Ibiza 1.2 tsi. It had covered 13,000 miles and was in pristine condition, so rather than pass it on we decided to keep it and let our sons use it whenever they need a car. No 1 son decided that he would rather continue to hack around in the aged Corsa that the boys had shared until then so we gave it to him on the understanding that it was now his responsibility. No 2 son has to travel down from London to pick up the Ibiza so has not used it a great deal.

I had the Ibiza serviced by a local indy around the time my wife got her new car. It would therefore have needed another service in June 2018, but I have prevaricated since then as it has covered no more than a few hundred miles in the last 18 months and we are now thinking of selling it in the spring as no2 son is relocating abroad. It is due for an MOT this month and the question is whether I should also have it serviced at the same time, ready for sale in a few months’ time. For reasons of decency I am inclined to include the service, but from the oil change perspective, will it really need it? If I ask the indy, I know what the answer will be!
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Wed 2 Jan 2019 11:52
servicing by numbers-which is best? - edlithgow

I wouldn't.

About the only reason to do so would be so you could show the receipt to a prospective purchaser, but if you've got the others they should be enough, and if you havn't, one last one won't be very convincing.

I'm told most punters aren't interested anyway.

The reason/excuse for time-trumps-mileage service interval recommendations is to deal with short-tripping, which could lead to condensation accumulation on a low-miles car with an extended OCI.

Since the car has been infrequently borrowed, I'd guess when it was borrowed it was used enough to get thoroughly warmed up, which should avoid the potential problem.

The following is not a recomendation, but an indication of what you can get away with.

I'm on about 6 years on the current (mineral oil) fill, with very low miles, but not short-tripped or exposed to cold. Engine is very shiny inside and the oil looks OK on a blotter spot test, but is just starting to develop a central debris ring.

I would change it, but I'm thinking of running a student oil analysis project next semester so I'll probably leave it in a bit longer.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 12:36
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Andrew-T

You might offer to have the car serviced to clinch a sale. Otherwise don't bother, and see what happens. As for 'needing it', see the above posts.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 12:54
servicing by numbers-which is best? - John F

I wouldn't either - see my original post in 2015. I am beginning to think that HJ doesn't exist any more - can't remember when I last saw a post from him. Or perhaps like Maggie Thatcher he has developed dementia and is protected from view. The unbending dogma of annual oil change no matter what mileage, possibly perpetuated by unthinking disciples in his name, is now widely accepted to be absurd - even amongst garage mechanics.

Edited by John F on 02/01/2019 at 12:57

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 13:34
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Senexdriver
Thanks for the replies, gents. I wasn’t sure what to expect, but my inclination was to leave it based on the little I know about modern engine oils. Everything has changed since the days of Duckhams 20-50 and Castrol GTX and modern oils are much longer lasting so it was good to have your opinions.
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Thu 3 Jan 2019 03:20
servicing by numbers-which is best? - edlithgow
Thanks for the replies, gents. I wasn’t sure what to expect, but my inclination was to leave it based on the little I know about modern engine oils. Everything has changed since the days of Duckhams 20-50 and Castrol GTX and modern oils are much longer lasting so it was good to have your opinions.

I avoid "modern engine oils" as much as I can, so I'm on mineral SJ, a 50:50 mix of Mobil Delvac 15W40 and China Petroleum Corporation SAE40, probably comes out about 20W40.

I'd guess the SAE40 is Group I, Mobil probably Group II, (but they don't tell you), so probably not so very different from the Duckhams 20-50 and Castrol GTX.

As I said, this "neo-classical "oil seems to be fine on a six year oil change interval

"Modern engine oils", either extensively hydrocracked Group III or genuine synthetics, do have better oxidative stability, the important variable in this context, but its a bit more complicated than that.

Due to their range of unsaturated aromatic content, old stylee mineral oils tend to oxidise sooner but gradually.

Modern engine oils hold up longer, but when they go they tend to suffer a rather sudden "oxidative cascade" failure and get horrible very quickly. This means pushing them too far is a bit riskier, though you have to push them a LONG way to enter the danger zone.

Another complicating factor is that Group 1 oils have much better solvency for varnish, so will tend to keep it in solution for longer. My old engine has lost the varnish it had when I got it, but if I push the oil too far I'll exceed the oils carrying capacity and it'll start to re-varnish.

Edited by edlithgow on 03/01/2019 at 03:28

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 17:38
servicing by numbers-which is best? - quizman

I think you will find that Mrs Thatcher died a few years ago. Yet more proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 17:57
servicing by numbers-which is best? - oldroverboy.

To keep my 7 year warranty.

I must have an annual service 12500 miles or 12 months whichever comes first.

oil change included in every service.

End of story for me.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 19:02
servicing by numbers-which is best? - paul 1963

In my mind and for what it's worth an annual oil change/ minor service certainly won't hurt and as has been said is quite inexpensive if you diy.

I'm lucky enough now to be able to own a new car that I replace every 3 years, these as ORB had said are serviced at the dealer every year irrespective of mileage but when I did run preloved cars the first thing I always done was to give them fresh oil and filters (and a cambelt).

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 19:03
servicing by numbers-which is best? - paul 1963

repeat post....sorry

Edited by paul 1963 on 02/01/2019 at 19:04

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 19:21
servicing by numbers-which is best? - John F

To keep my 7 year warranty.

I must have an annual service 12500 miles or 12 months whichever comes first.

oil change included in every service.

End of story for me.

Not quite. 7 x c = £? (variable 'c' is cost of services) Do please let us know £? in 2025. And the mileage. Hope there's a happy and not too expensive ending.

P.S. must pop round for a drink with Maggie T....haven't seen her lately ;-)

Edited by John F on 02/01/2019 at 19:22

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 19:27
servicing by numbers-which is best? - gordonbennet
P.S. must pop round for a drink with Maggie T....haven't seen her lately ;-)

If the current political farce carries on much longer we'll all be seeing her again, clad in black armour astride a horse with eyes of fire...

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 22:10
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Leif
P.S. must pop round for a drink with Maggie T....haven't seen her lately ;-)

If the current political farce carries on much longer we'll all be seeing her again, clad in black armour astride a horse with eyes of fire...

That fantasy is copyrighted by J. Rees Mogg. I have it on good authority that the Gatwick drones were flown by someone sick of hearing about Brexit 24/7.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 19:28
servicing by numbers-which is best? - paul 1963

To keep my 7 year warranty.

I must have an annual service 12500 miles or 12 months whichever comes first.

oil change included in every service.

End of story for me.

Not quite. 7 x c = £? (variable 'c' is cost of services) Do please let us know £? in 2025. And the mileage. Hope there's a happy and not too expensive ending.

P.S. must pop round for a drink with Maggie T....haven't seen her lately ;-)

John, I don't intend to start a long "discussion " but are you honestly suggesting that ORB shouldn't get his almost brand new car serviced as per the manufacturer's schedule?

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Thu 3 Jan 2019 04:07
servicing by numbers-which is best? - edlithgow

To but-in at the start of the potential long "discussion", no-brainer warranty maintenance is rather irrelevent to the question raised by the OP, so there really isn't anything to discuss

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Thu 3 Jan 2019 12:23
servicing by numbers-which is best? - John F

John, I don't intend to start a long "discussion " but are you honestly suggesting that ORB shouldn't get his almost brand new car serviced as per the manufacturer's schedule?

Certainly not. How can you possibly infer that from my post? Especially as I asked for the costs of such servicing!

To but-in at the start of the potential long "discussion", no-brainer warranty maintenance is rather irrelevent to the question raised by the OP, so there really isn't anything to discuss

Quite so.

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Wed 2 Jan 2019 23:06
servicing by numbers-which is best? - Andrew-T

(deleted)

Edited by Andrew-T on 02/01/2019 at 23:08

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