BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
View Threaded
Sat 29 Jul 2017 15:29
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - Conor Masterson

Hi

My wife and I bought a 10 year old BMW this week that we found on Autotrader and we bought through a small dealer.

We went and viewed the car and haggled over cosmetics, getting some scratches and the alloys repaired cosmetically etc and managed to get £500 off the selling price of 4K However...

The Invoice we were given is a 'Trade Sales Invoice' and it has terms in it that say the car is sold without any additional warranty and there was an additonal handwritten note which goes further and say 'no warranty, sold as seen'. We missed these details and when I noticed them I rang them up and had to argue about the warranty which had been advertised as '3 months' on Autotrader. They were adament that was part of the deal and I was 200% positive it wasn't as we simply would not have done it. In the end they are posting us a 3 month Warranty to cover us via a third party and apologised for their (deliberate) mistake.

Then... I noticed at the top of the Invoice was my name with 'Cars Ltd' added. So its a fraudulent contract albeit with my name at the start - As it happens I do have a Ltd company but this guy didn't know that so he made it up.

Our next step was to get the car checked out anyway but now our guard is up. It's an illegal contract in that he composed amendements, slipped them through, probably distracting us and he made up my company name. (My actual company name is a completely different but it was never mentioned that I am a profeissional and he would have thought its a private purchase by a man and wife).

There was also an accident repair contained within the paperwork. It was a repair by an Authorised BMW dealer and after calling the dealership it seems to have been a repair to bodywork mostly cosmetic But... My friend who had also looked at this ad said it had not been listed with some sort of 'category D'? I am not worried about the actual Dealer repaired work but technically it appears it had not been listed properly. The ad is now gone (can we get a copy from Autotrader?)

So what do you all think? It's clear they are trying to avoid any protection we might have through our consumer rights. We could just give the car back but we did get a good price. Where do we stand after 3 months, once the warranty expires, does the fraudulent invoice/contract matter after 3 months?

Many thanks in advance for any advice. Its Saturday and we bought the car on Wednesday.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 29 Jul 2017 16:01
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - RobJP

Well, if you are a 'professional' then you'll realise it's a 10 year old car, bought for approximately 10% of it's original price. As such, your 'reasonable expectations' can't be that high.

And that's what it comes down to, really. Yes, technically, the CRA gives you lots of rights out to 6 months. But if you buy something old and moderately cheap, then those rights are tempered by what is 'reasonable'.

If you're not happy, unwind the deal - assuming the garage are willing to. They may well tell you to get stuffed, and to feel free to take them to court - in the knowledge that you're highly unlikely to do so.

EDIT : do note, it's your word against his. Bear that in mind.

Edited by RobJP on 29/07/2017 at 16:01

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 29 Jul 2017 16:53
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - elekie&a/c doctor
Sounds a bit iffy to me.A 10 year old BMW for less than £4K is banger territory.Any simple checks done? Mot history? How many owners on the registration V5 ?I would pay a local garage to give it a quick once over to see if there are any major issues and that the Mot is accurate.Chances of a refund are probably zero.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 29 Jul 2017 17:51
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - bathtub tom

Cat D means it's previously been written off and this wil be stated on the V5.

The official description of a Category D car is one that has suffered accident damage that would cost less to repair than its value.

I believe it's illegal for a trader to sell a cat D without advertising it as such.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 29 Jul 2017 18:41
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - RT

Cat D means it's previously been written off and this wil be stated on the V5.

The official description of a Category D car is one that has suffered accident damage that would cost less to repair than its value.

I believe it's illegal for a trader to sell a cat D without advertising it as such.

You sure?

According to the RAC "If your car has been written off as a Category D case, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) will not be informed of the situation, and the car will not be subject to a Vehicle Information Check."

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 30 Jul 2017 13:01
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - Palcouk

I purchased a car many years ago, from a dealer, some months later I was stopped by Police, who checked Identifying plate/marks, they said the car showed as a 'write off' in their vehicle check - This was before the various categories D, C etc.

Apparently the car was stolen and recovered after the insurance had paid out. I had to take the car to a specific vehicle inspection centre, and pay a fee based on retail value for the inspection, in order to have the 'Write off' marker removed.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 30 Jul 2017 12:54
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - Conor Masterson

Thanks for the replies guys

The car is worth just over 4K and the invoice was falsified so I was just wondering where that leaves us legally IF, IF there is a problem after 3 months.

We'll get the car checked out but on current research its in good nick and its worth 4K.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 14 Aug 2017 13:49
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - The Gingerous One

Thanks for the replies guys

The car is worth just over 4K and the invoice was falsified so I was just wondering where that leaves us legally IF, IF there is a problem after 3 months.

We'll get the car checked out but on current research its in good nick and its worth 4K.

Ah, so there's no problem then ??? You can always resell it for £4k-ish if it's a bit of a lemon....

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 30 Jul 2017 17:54
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - SLO76
"There was also an accident repair contained within the paperwork. It was a repair by an Authorised BMW dealer and after calling the dealership it seems to have been a repair to bodywork mostly cosmetic But... My friend who had also looked at this ad said it had not been listed with some sort of 'category D'? I am not worried about the actual Dealer repaired work but technically it appears it had not been listed properly. The ad is now gone (can we get a copy from Autotrader?)"

A bodywork repair doesn't necessarily mean the car was a write-off and thus they don't have to inform you.

Is this also a diesel per chance?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 30 Jul 2017 18:20
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - Conor Masterson

Hey Just to clarify - I looked at the A.B.C & D categories and I don't think the bodywork classifies as sone of those so all fine and dandy in that regard.

It was in aan accident in 2010 and had both side doors repaireded, windows and th epillar. I have the receipts from the BMW authorised dealer so all done properly paid for by insurance etc.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 30 Jul 2017 18:55
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - SLO76
No offence intended Conor but I think what we have here is a fine example of how not to buy a used car.

Firstly: When shopping on a tight sub £4K budget it's unwise to buy an older prestige brand executive car (especially a diesel) that cost the guts of £40k new. The running costs (assuming you service it with someone who actually knows what they're doing and has all the gear) including parts prices will be in line with that new price and not the price you paid. The only time I'd advise buying something like this would be if you can afford to write it off if anything major fails. For example replacing the DPF or a fuel pump (both very common) will cost well in excess of £1k and there's plenty that goes wrong on older BMW's. It's very likely it'll be a never ending money pit, less so if it's a petrol 6cyl.

Second: You bought from a disreputable dealer and you didn't read the sales contract before you signed it. Now while in the eyes of the law you can't sign your rights away so the bulk of what was written on it is irrelevant (sold as seen etc) but if they've listed anything about the mileage being incorrect or any faults and you've signed it then in the eyes of the law you've bought it knowing this. Plus you'll have a hell of a fight trying to get recompense from them when something goes wrong. I'll bet the warranty they added post sale will be worthless too, they almost all are on 10yr plus motors as its unrealistic to be able to offer cover on such a vehicle. It could fail catastrophically at any moment just as easily as it could run for three years without fault. Any worthwhile warranty would be cost prohibitive. Only when you went home with the car did you read over the paperwork. Big mistake!

Had you came on here to ask for recommendations the bulk of contributors on this forum would've steered to the small petrol powered hatchback your budget can actually stretch to. I'm sorry to say (again assuming it's a diesel) but you've bought one of the last cars I would've advised you to buy at this money.

I hope all works out well, if not then at least it's a lesson for next time and for others.

Edited by SLO76 on 30/07/2017 at 18:56

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 31 Jul 2017 10:23
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - pd

If it as Cat D then Autotrader usually automatically check them now so it wold have said clearly on the advert. Other advertising sites do not.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 31 Jul 2017 10:34
BMW 525 - False Invoice and Warranty amendment by Dealer - skidpan

It was in aan accident in 2010 and had both side doors repaireded, windows and th epillar.

Dad had an accident in 2013 which resulted in both passenger side doors being reskinned and repairs being made to the front and rear wings. The whole side of the car was repainted and was blended into the bonnet.

When the car was sold there was no need to declare the work since it was a repair and not a write off.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

10 warranty myths exposed

Here’s how to sort the fact from the fiction when it comes to car warranties.

Cheap Car Warranties