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HonestJohn.co.uk Electric Car Survey

Published 19 July 2021

HonestJohn.co.uk is the website that champions for fairness for car owners by publishing expert, unbiased information to help consumers make informed choices about their cars. You can help us to continue our important work by taking part in our electric car research.

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Comments

Sam Datta    on 19 July 2021

Getting an electric car soon

Johnd44    on 19 July 2021

I recently purchased a BMW i3 and like it very much, it is very complicated but is a good car. Wheels are too big making the ride a bit hard but I understand this is to do with range and battery weight.
It was cheaper to buy a second hand BMW charger and have it installed by my local electrician than using an "Approved" electrician and obtain the grant.

Richard Twomey    on 19 July 2021

Electric vehicles are far too expensive.
I think someone will develop a small re-charge generator, which will reduce the range worry, but completely defeat the environmental object.
At my age (82), I am never going to be able to afford one.
To my mind, the Renault idea of leasing the battery makes sense. So would an agreement so all use the same battery (multiples when necessary), and the same connectors. Present situation smacks of VHS v's Betamax.

asd7    on 19 July 2021

New tech is always expensive. Used EV market is still firm; demand exceeds supply. There are new EVs available at under £10k. Chinese, not yet UK Baojun E300 £7500. Wuling mini EV £3500. admittedly a bit weird but apparently they drive OK. Nobody is going to be forced to buy an EV but they will eventually cost less than internal combustion engined cars to buy and to run. Battery lease works for some but many wish they had bought the battery as it gets expensive after a few years and reduces the value of a used EV.

Chickenwire    on 19 July 2021

New tech is always expensive. Used EV market is still firm; demand exceeds supply. There are new EVs available at under £10k. Chinese, not yet UK Baojun E300 £7500. Wuling mini EV £3500. admittedly a bit weird but apparently they drive OK. Nobody is going to be forced to buy an EV but they will eventually cost less than internal combustion engined cars to buy and to run. Battery lease works for some but many wish they had bought the battery as it gets expensive after a few years and reduces the value of a used EV.

Guardian article on electric car cost 'tipping point'

MartyF    on 19 July 2021

There are more sinister reasons why governments want us to drive electric cars. Forget the environment, it’s all about control. If you can’t charge one, you can’t drive it. Who says the electric will be available to charge it when you need it? Also, trackers will become a legal requirement so Governments can charge whatever they wish for each mile you travel. If you don’t pay, I imagine your car will be remotely disabled. And what’s the betting you’ll be forced to provide your bank details for charges to be levied? Are we all sleepwalking into Big Brother?

Chickenwire    on 19 July 2021

There are more sinister reasons why governments want us to drive electric cars. Forget the environment, it’s all about control. If you can’t charge one, you can’t drive it. Who says the electric will be available to charge it when you need it? Also, trackers will become a legal requirement so Governments can charge whatever they wish for each mile you travel. If you don’t pay, I imagine your car will be remotely disabled. And what’s the betting you’ll be forced to provide your bank details for charges to be levied? Are we all sleepwalking into Big Brother?

Assuming your tinfoil hat has tipped off in the breeze.

John B Stryge    on 20 July 2021

There are more sinister reasons why governments want us to drive electric cars. Forget the environment, it’s all about control. If you can’t charge one, you can’t drive it. Who says the electric will be available to charge it when you need it? Also, trackers will become a legal requirement so Governments can charge whatever they wish for each mile you travel. If you don’t pay, I imagine your car will be remotely disabled. And what’s the betting you’ll be forced to provide your bank details for charges to be levied? Are we all sleepwalking into Big Brother?

Assuming your tinfoil hat has tipped off in the breeze.

Typical dismissive remark from the ignorant. Just look at how the "Congestion" charge was sold and what it has become now. Look at how parking meters were described by the Minister in Parliament as being to raise money to pay for off-street parking facilities to be built in London. The fixed penalty that went with it has become the instant go-to weapon for everything from speeding to walking up a Welsh hill with a carton of tea. No I do not wear a tinfoil or armadillo hat. I an just an old f*** whose job has made me read a lot of government publications.

VINCENT MILLARD    on 20 July 2021

There are more sinister reasons why governments want us to drive electric cars. Forget the environment, it’s all about control. If you can’t charge one, you can’t drive it. Who says the electric will be available to charge it when you need it? Also, trackers will become a legal requirement so Governments can charge whatever they wish for each mile you travel. If you don’t pay, I imagine your car will be remotely disabled. And what’s the betting you’ll be forced to provide your bank details for charges to be levied? Are we all sleepwalking into Big Brother?

Are you an anti Vaxxer as well?

John B Stryge    on 20 July 2021

There are more sinister reasons why governments want us to drive electric cars. Forget the environment, it’s all about control. If you can’t charge one, you can’t drive it. Who says the electric will be available to charge it when you need it? Also, trackers will become a legal requirement so Governments can charge whatever they wish for each mile you travel. If you don’t pay, I imagine your car will be remotely disabled. And what’s the betting you’ll be forced to provide your bank details for charges to be levied? Are we all sleepwalking into Big Brother?

Are you an anti Vaxxer as well?

Another typical dismissive remark from the ignorant. Never mind, I'm sure Vince feels much better for being so clever. Oh, by the way, I have had annual flu jabs for many years and both Covid shots, not to mention the litany of BCG, Tetanus andall the others you collect through a lifetime.

Corina J Poore    on 19 July 2021

The only real solution for the future is hydrogen- these electric vehicles should remain in a fun park- we do not need mountains of dead batteries and the mining of necessary minerals is terrible for the planet. let alone the national grid being able to provide sufficient energy were they to become of general use. I do not want to look forward to black outs and a society even more divided by monetary positions than now. It might fulfill a brief gap till hydrogen is sufficiently generalized.
I think the solution might be to to buy a horse!

Chickenwire    on 19 July 2021

The only real solution for the future is hydrogen- these electric vehicles should remain in a fun park- we do not need mountains of dead batteries and the mining of necessary minerals is terrible for the planet. let alone the national grid being able to provide sufficient energy were they to become of general use. I do not want to look forward to black outs and a society even more divided by monetary positions than now. It might fulfill a brief gap till hydrogen is sufficiently generalized. I think the solution might be to to buy a hors

To be utterly brutal here, any form of private transportation is dead in the water and just a 'second-horizon' short-term stopgap. The future is a combination of shared ownership, public transport/ sustainable transport and home working. A hydrogen car is still going to snarl up cities like an electric car like a diesel car - just be cleaner doing it. Still the environmental cost in building the thing in the first place (and this will be leagues cleaner than the overall cost of a diesel or petrol).

DLDLDL    on 19 July 2021

The wrong type of Hydrogen still causes environmental problems.

Hydrogen direct to electric is not too problematic, but hydrogen in an Internal Combustion Engine still has problems. The claim that the only tail pipe emission is water is only true if it was combusting in pure oxygen; the atmosphere isn't pure oxygen but contains nitrogen ("By volume, dry air contains 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases." WP) and consequently there will be NOx emissions. The chemistry has to get cleverer!

VINCENT MILLARD    on 20 July 2021

The wrong type of Hydrogen still causes environmental problems.

Hydrogen direct to electric is not too problematic, but hydrogen in an Internal Combustion Engine still has problems. The claim that the only tail pipe emission is water is only true if it was combusting in pure oxygen; the atmosphere isn't pure oxygen but contains nitrogen ("By volume, dry air contains 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases." WP) and consequently there will be NOx emissions. The chemistry has to get cleverer!

I like your reply but Water has two main components Oxygen and Hydrogen, so no need to use the Atmospheric Oxygen at all.

I agree it's problematic but Branson has just made it into Space so anything is doable.

DLDLDL    on 20 July 2021

I like your reply but Water has two main components Oxygen and Hydrogen, so no need to use the Atmospheric Oxygen at all.

I agree it's problematic but Branson has just made it into Space so anything is doable.

But to "burn" the hydrogen you have to separate out the oxygen in water - which (in vehicle) means you have to carry the water (which is heavy for the amount of oxygen in it - compared to the Oxygen that can be sucked in from the air) and you have to electrolyse the water to separate the Oxygen and the Hydrogen (which is one of the ways to produce the Hydrogen in the fist place). Electrolysing water is energy intensive - so you also have to carry a means to do that.

The alternative is two tanks in the vehicle; one of hydrogen and one of oxygen - which probably has safety considerations as well as doubling "fuel" storage and supply requirements.

VINCENT MILLARD    on 20 July 2021

The only real solution for the future is hydrogen- these electric vehicles should remain in a fun park- we do not need mountains of dead batteries and the mining of necessary minerals is terrible for the planet. let alone the national grid being able to provide sufficient energy were they to become of general use. I do not want to look forward to black outs and a society even more divided by monetary positions than now. It might fulfill a brief gap till hydrogen is sufficiently generalized. I think the solution might be to to buy a horse!

Actually the Batteries are far from Dead when they are no good for Cars. They are used in Solar Farms, that's what's in those Big Grey containers.

Also the components are hard to but, can be recycled, there are new and much better Batts in the Pipeline and being Manufactured and fitted now.

I do agree with you about Hydrogen as it's safer than Petrol and cleaner to produce than Both Petrol and Batteries, can be split from Water with Solar and Wind power.

Also if the work was to be put in, ICEs can run on Hydrogen.

theanalyst    on 20 July 2021

At last someone with an appreciation of the situation. Rechargeable electric cars are beyond a joke. Apart from the usual issues, the environmental damage caused by mining and refining rare Earth metals is appalling. The answer is simple, if we all refused to buy an EV then the financial push towards hydrogen based transport would force progression by leaps and bounds.

Karl Dormer    on 19 July 2021

We do not have anything like enough power stations for all cars to be electric, many people live in houses without drives, so charging at home is impossible, rare resources are required to make batteries, electric cars are expensive, replacement batteries are expensive, there will never be enough charging points to enable people to get around the country in a reasonable time.
The government should be investing in hydrogen vehicles and support structure.

Chickenwire    on 19 July 2021

We do not have anything like enough power stations for all cars to be electric, many people live in houses without drives, so charging at home is impossible, rare resources are required to make batteries, electric cars are expensive, replacement batteries are expensive, there will never be enough charging points to enable people to get around the country in a reasonable time. The government should be investing in hydrogen vehicles and support structure.

Not really, National Grid seem quite confident: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

Edited by Chickenwire on 19/07/2021 at 21:32

Harrovian    on 19 July 2021

The project is putting the cart before the horse, the technology is nowhere near ready, the infrastructure is certainly years away from readiness.
I read the government want to encourage travel by bus - at 6'3" I can't even sit in a bus with any leg room, they also want to encourage 'active travel' cycles presumably. I think they want to force us out of cars.
Hydrogen should be the long term objective, not electric and we should be evolving, not setting targets which cannot be met.
I don't recall seeing this in the government's manifesto..... all right if you are wealthy!

John B Stryge    on 20 July 2021

The project is putting the cart before the horse, the technology is nowhere near ready, the infrastructure is certainly years away from readiness. I read the government want to encourage travel by bus - at 6'3" I can't even sit in a bus with any leg room, they also want to encourage 'active travel' cycles presumably. I think they want to force us out of cars. Hydrogen should be the long term objective, not electric and we should be evolving, not setting targets which cannot be met. I don't recall seeing this in the government's manifesto..... all right if you are wealthy!

An interesting comment but what is a "bus"? I vaguely remember reading about them in some big cities but I remember ever seeing one in this neck of the woods.

John B Stryge    on 20 July 2021

Ooops, should have said "do not" remember seeing.

John Margerison    on 19 July 2021

I have had two electric MGs and find that the running costs make electric cars very efficient. The first MG came with a Pod Point charger, fitted free by MG,
I am unsure why the first ZS came with 3 years free servicing but I swopped the ZS for a MG 5. As yet I don't know how the servicing might cost.
I had a good deal from MG with being an NHS pensioner and it seems a good deal overall.
John Margerison

Atlanticboy    on 19 July 2021

Don't like modern milk floats, I don't agree with the how the raw materials are mined.
The cost of upgrading the infrastructure will be horrendous and the knock on effect for the need of additional power generation.

   on 19 July 2021

I used to own a vauxhall ampera. Although it was a very good car with a typical all electric range of about 40/50 miles then 40mpg I found that the main issue with owning this type of vehicle is when you need to have it serviced or if something goes wrong, the costs can be eye watering because there are only a few non franchise garages that will/ can work on them which obviously can be somewhat a pain in the rear end.

   on 19 July 2021

I've yet be be convinced that electric is the best way forward, other than the government is forcing it through via incentives when only a few years ago they were pushing diesel. The science was there, I learnt this only later as a layman that diesel became more planet unfriendly as opposed to petrol.
Noone has yet answered the question what are they going to do with used batteries?
I do hope that they will at least make hay from the electric hype by ensuring we are at the forefront of manufacturing at least some of it.
I hear the hydrogen power is the next big thing, not yet cost effective but no doubt once the majority have moved to electric tric the next hype will be this!

Chickenwire    on 19 July 2021

I've yet be be convinced that electric is the best way forward, other than the government is forcing it through via incentives when only a few years ago they were pushing diesel. The science was there, I learnt this only later as a layman that diesel became more planet unfriendly as opposed to petrol. Noone has yet answered the question what are they going to do with used batteries? I do hope that they will at least make hay from the electric hype by ensuring we are at the forefront of manufacturing at least some of it. I hear the hydrogen power is the next big thing, not yet cost effective but no doubt once the majority have moved to electric tric the next hype will be this!

Lots of great ideas around what to do with used batteries - car to grid, huge battery stations in locations without modern infrastructure - old car batteries are recycled with increasing efficiency. Check out Fully Charged Show on Youtube or the web for more.

chrisbwhittle    on 19 July 2021

At present I can 500 miles on a tank of petrol. I would want a similar range on an EV with charging for at least half that in ten minutes. Three quarters of my journeys are around 350 miles and my two frequent destinations cannot allow me to charge. I would have to make detours to my preferred to routes to recharge. At present I can complete my journeys without having to stop. I want to drive the routes I want not the routes dictated by charging points.

Chickenwire    on 19 July 2021

At present I can 500 miles on a tank of petrol. I would want a similar range on an EV with charging for at least half that in ten minutes. Three quarters of my journeys are around 350 miles and my two frequent destinations cannot allow me to charge. I would have to make detours to my preferred to routes to recharge. At present I can complete my journeys without having to stop. I want to drive the routes I want not the routes dictated by charging points.

Okay if you regularly do 500 miles in one sitting, i'm sure. The next Hyundai and Kia cars will charge to 80% of their ~300m range in 5 minutes - *if* you can find the correct rapid charger for those rare occasions where you really do need to do 500 miles in a single day. For the majority of people, for example in the North East where the average commute trip (one way) is 9 miles, an electric car is not a terrible option at all.

Vivien Barber    on 19 July 2021

I can see GVT deciding we'd all better self-isolate! You can tell the poplace what to do- find out where we are - ration where we may go = it's terrifying. And making electricity is not green, unless you live by a waterfall.

Mike Cross    on 19 July 2021

What is called "green" is often a manipulation of the marketplace for rich people to make a lot of money. Naturally the rest of us will have to pay for it which is why most are resistant. Most "green" things just don't stack up with the science, but governments have few scientists and some of those can be bought.

Edited by Mike Cross on 19/07/2021 at 21:51

Edmund Godley    on 20 July 2021

Hydrogen techknology is my preference but at present few filling stations exist.

peter chance    on 20 July 2021

at current costs and mileage range, coupled with lack of charging facilities, electric cars are not for me.

Geoff parselle    on 20 July 2021

Hydrogen is the answer not batteries.

Batteries - bad for the planet mining the materials in them.

What will happen the the mountains of used batteries.

Charging - will need 40 million charging outlets for 40 million cars - hydrogen - just like now, re-fill at a hydrogen filling station.

40 million charging points means more nuclear power station to provide the power required.

How will someone living on the 14th floor of a block of flats charge their car together with the other 150 who live in the block - etc.

Downside of hydrogen - wet roads - so what.

I do drive a Hybrid at the moment - bit of a half-way house as it at least runs on batteries in town and I get 75mpg - average all driving 62mpg, but I would much prefer hydrogen

   on 20 July 2021

Hydrogen would be great if it was more efficient in terms of production. And the vehicles that could use them were WAY cheaper.
I hope it comes but with only 12 hydrogen filling sites on the UK and only 3 that are open to the public by appointment... We have a LONG way to go
I can't charge a hydrogen vehicle at home as I do with my solar panels..

We need a blended soloution. Not just an EV or nothing. EVs are great in many respects. But they are limited to slower charging and range is an issue for a minority of drivers. You also can't tow much with them. Roll on the Rivian UK launch as they offer bigger range and can tow 3t (SUV) or 5t (truck).

Every vehicle has its place and I would also want to see more conversations to Battery or hydrogen when the infrastructure improves.

Too many people get Hung up on the method of propulsion... I don't hear anyone moaning about a diesel Vs a steam Vs an electric train?

Why do people care about what powers their vehicle? You still have choice and freedom to use them.

Btw.. I love the tracker suggestion... Ie pay for the miles you travel...what's not to like... And the government can just track you via your smart phone.. or ask Bill Gates for your microchip that he implants free with every Covid jab... Lol...

wreckymek    on 20 July 2021

When the sales of EV's fall of a cliff then they might invest more in Research & Development and the role out of HYDROGEN filling stations as the fuel to replace petrol and diesel will be this,
At present all effort appears to be to use existing fuels (gas etc) to make Hydrogen instead of using solar or wind to power electro separation of water molecules or even sulfuric acid to do the same ,,add sulfuric (H2SO4) acid to water and it emits hydrogen(H) and (SO2) sulphur Dioxide & Oxygen

John Schofield    6 days ago

You are all wrong there is nothing new batteries will always need charging a five minute charger will just mean more volts from an infrastructure that doesn't exist yet. Hydrogen yeah right where do I get my Hydrogen? so for now petrol or diesel work 24/7 365 days. Most people could save 30% on their fuel bills (carbon footprints) by learning to drive, timing their journey to avoid rush hour congestion etc. harsh acceleration and braking turn fuel into hot metal not motion 80 mph means you get to the next red light/traffic jam/accident a couple of minutes earlier. So stop buying heavy fancy status symbols every 2-3 years and buy a reliable basic car (transport) and keep it for 20 years at least drive sensibly only carry what you need and only drive when you need to. If oil runs out we can always go back to steam! (coal & wood)

Roger R-B    2 days ago

Batteries are inefficient in the cold. Using the heater on a cold winter day will only reduce the range by 30 Percent or so. Once it gets down to -10 then you stand a chance of being slaughtered, a la David Bailey, for wearing a Silver Fox Fur Coat.
There is inadequate generating capacity in the UK to power large numbers of EVs which will lead to more use of fossil fuel. Why? Because the Nuclear Power programme is 10 years behind and there is insufficient renewables wind/solar.
No one seems to be looking at the problem of EV Battery disposal and its cost.
The cost of Cell Replacement in EVs and PHEVs is a question no one will answer. I have, as yet, never been able to make a precise estimate of Lifetime Maintenance and Fuel Costs because this is privileged information not available to the public. We need Alan Turing to “Crack the Code.”

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