VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - zango

Hi, my problems with this car are well documented on other posts so I won't repeat them now. To cut a very long story short I had the above vehicle on lease but with a non maintenance contract (big mistake I know).

Initially I dealt with VW myself getting the warranty work done and using their loan cars. However, I then involved the lease company because the problems just kept on coming. Eventually I lost patience and legally rejected the car as being unfit for purpose and not fulfilling the (implicit) terms of the supply contract.

This was over a year ago now. My contract was with the lease company, not the introducer (broker) or VW. The lease company (possibly related to one of superman's arch enemies :-) seemed totally incapably of dealing with this. Their only recourse was to approach VW for a replacement or compensation - which they refused on the basis that they had supplied a loan car.

It seems that the lease company have no mechanism or budget for dealing with this situation. They do not dispute the rejection, and the representations they made to VW on my behalf are on the basis that the car is unfit for purpose would seem to support this position.

I find this amazing and very frustrating, as it appears this major lease company seem to be operating according to their "normal practices" without regard to the governance of English law.

Edited by zango on 09/04/2012 at 11:06

VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - tony g
(but with a non maintenance contract (big mistake I know).

Hi zango ,presuming that you have had the car serviced when required ,I believe that you can return the car to the leasing company .

Presuming that you have a genuine lease ,rather than a lease purchase ,you can return the car to the leasing company .

The difference is that a lease where the payments have vat added is a simple rental agreement .A lease purchase is a form of hire purchase .Where you have the option to own the car at the end of the agreement .

You're not obliged to deal with vw , your contract is with the leasing company .
The leasing company own the car not you .Because the car is not up to standard and is affecting your use of it .The leasing company is in breach of contract .

The way to deal with it would be to write to the leasing company ,keep a copy ,
List all the faults and the time you have been without the car ,tell them that you will return the car to them in 28 days and stop payments .You may want to ask them for a replacement equivalent car ,or simply terminate the agreement . I think they would be more amenable to a replacement vehicle .

Good luck ,please let the forum know the outcome .



Regards

Tony g
VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - zango

Thanks Tony - I agree 100% with your summary. The car is on standard 3 year 60K mile lease.

This is almost exactly what I have tried to do, recorded delivery letters, email with read receipts etc. However, the lease company just cannot deal with it. This is why despite rejecting the vehicle over a year ago, I still have it.

Some highlights along the way:

Lucy BC (remember her) advised me on this forum that I could not just stop paying the lease as this would be breach of contract so I had to go via the complaints process.

The lease was arranged as a 6+30 so for the last six months there were no payments which reduced the effectiveness of stopping paying anyway.

Mr Luther (:-) told me that if I stopped paying the lease they would snatch the car back.

If you call Mr Luther you will get put through to the RAC who will attend your vehicle and charge you £120 for this if you are on a non maintenance contract. They will also try and charge you for any bits they fit, even if these would be covered under the VW warranty.

If you speak to the accounts department, you will never speak to that person again as they mysteriously leave the company between phone calls!

If you hand back the vehicle early they will only agree to refund 50% of the remaining lease payments. This is obviously not enough to pay for a hire car.

If you speak to the accounts department or the vehicle downtime team they will tell you things which are not true.

For example:

1. The contract is with the broker.

Actually I think that anything the broker tells you is legally binding on the Lease company as they are acting as an agent (usual authority I believe it is legally defined as).

2. The vehicle must be returned with a MOT.

3. The vehicle must be returned in a saleable condition.

My only success is that I got all of the RAC callouts and parts charges refunded by the bank. These refunds caused Mr Luther to cancel the DD arrangement. I then managed to get the accounts department to waive these charges formally and agree let me keep £500 back in exchange for settling the outstanding lease amounts. This stopped the threat of snatchback and in the meantime I campaigned for my legal rights of rejection.

The icing on the cake was when the downtime team told me to take the car to VW for a check (I was experiencing misfires with specific brands of fuel) before the 60K mileage limit was reached. This I did and the car was pronounced OK, which it was at the time. Less than 2500 miles later it started misfiring again and VW would not provide a loan or hire car while they looked at the problem as there was no fault found on the previous visit!

Edited by zango on 09/04/2012 at 20:42

VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - tony g
Hi zango ,I'm a little confused ,do you still have the car ?presuming you still have it , how many payments are still outstanding ,do you still have the 6month rest period to come at the end of the agreement .The reason I ask is that there's not to much point in returning the car to the leasing company if your close to the 6 month no payment period .

As to lucys comment about breach of contract , it's clear that the leasing company is in breach of contract ,the contract must be , that they provide a working vehicle in return for your monthly payment .A couple of small faults during the term of the lease would be reasonable ,continuous and multiple faults that you describe would make the contract breached .

One last point ,you're not obliged to return the car in saleable condition .The BVRLA set out specific requirements for the condition of a vehicle at the end of an agreement .its basically fair wear and tear .

Regards tony g

VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - zango

Hi Tony, thanks for the replies.

The car goes back tomorrow about 18 days early. I rejected the car back in March 2011, but the lease company did not answer any of my correspondence until September 2011. By this time we were pretty much into the 6 month no pay period, so handing the car back or stopping payment would not have been effective as you say.

I agree entirely with your summation that a contract requires both sides to contribute (consideration) for it to be binding. The lease company do not agree and actually told me that I have to pay for the car whether it works or not and that their only obligation was to deliver the vehicle on the specified start date.

I have read the BVRLA dehire guide, but note that this is not referenced in the contract.

Suffice to say I won't be paying any de-hire charges and will be raising my own invoice for loss of use (47 days) when the vehicle was off the road and diminution in value for (50% of the hire fee for 1 year) for the time I was forced to use a vehicle that was not fit for purpose. I expect that I am going to have to go to the small claims court to recover this. I was just wondering is the BVRLA offer an arbitration / complaint service as an alternative?

VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - tony g
(The lease company do not agree and actually told me that I have to pay for the car whether it works or not and that their only obligation was to deliver the vehicle on the specified start date.)

Hi zango it's much clearer now Thankyou .
The first thing that strikes me is that this could be construed as an unfair contract .The leasing company as professionals could be seen to have taken advantage of you as a consumer .

The fact that BVRLA guidelines are not referred to in the contract , doesnt mean that its reasonable for the leasing company to insist on the car being in retail condition when it's returned to them ,after all most lease cars are disposed of at auction into the trade ,at the end of the lease . Most contract law in this country is based on reasonableness .

Can I suggest you make out a list of any and all marks on the car ,also photo copy the service book .Have the leasing company sign a copy of the cars condition and service history ,Also check the condition of the tyres ,before they take the car back .

Finally I agree it's possible to pursue the leasing company for compensation for the loss of use ,and additional costs incurred .

The small claims court is the best place to pursue a claim ,the only cost and risk to you is the original fee of about £200 .

The leasing company will have to defend the case or pay your claim before it comes to court .

If you decide to go through the small claim court ,do get in touch with the forum ,I'm sure that members will give advice on the process .

Good luck


Tony g












VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - Armitage Shanks {p}

Perhaps the Financial Services Ombudsman would be happy to take an interest in this?

VW Golf GT 160 - Rejecting a Lease Car - tony g
Hi as,it's possible that the fso would take an interest .However from reading previous posts on various forums it seems a lengthy process .Then you're left with the prospect of trying to have them enforce the decision .

They seem to be a bit like trading standards ,fairly ineffective organisations .You seem to have to continuously flout the law before they take any action .

The great thing about the small claims court is that it is cheap ,quick and their is no appeal after a decision is made .

Also it's consumer friendly ,if you have a reasonable case, judges will generally favour private individuals over corporate bodies .They are difficult for companies to deal with ,in that they usually have to have a solicitor to deal with the case .

When a large company looks at the cost of dealing with a claim for £2 or £3000 pounds .its often cheaper for them to settle the case before they have to attend court ,although they usually wait until the week before the case to settle .

I claimed against a large holiday company about 5 years ago ,they initially offered £100 in vouchers .We finally settled on £800 plus court fees ,It's just not worth their time to attend court .knowing that they will probably lose .

Regards

Tony g