Well, it's been a long time coming, but I've finally witnessed something on the roads that has made me smile!
A main roundabout that I everyday has had it's traffic lights switched off. :) The lights used to be on 24/7 and now that they are off, traffic flows much more freely and I barely have to wait, plus there is none of this business where people go in the shortest queue and then carve up other motorists as soon as the lights go green. :)
I've e-mailed the council to tell them how great I think it is, I suggested that if the lights are broken, then they should not waste any money fixing them, and congratulating them if they had been deliberately switched off.
Anyone else seen some recent road design that has been for the better, most of it round here is absynal. (Our traffic/road planning and design guy in the council doesn't actually drive a car)
Blue
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well i hestitate to say that when a big match is on and all the local motorcycle cops are bravely guarding the tea room at the local marine police marina waiting for the match to be over (when they are required to escort the team coaches and other equally exciting jobs)
the surrounding roads dont half flow a lot more freely without said motorcycle cops popping up everywhere
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"the surrounding roads dont half flow a lot more freely without said motorcycle cops popping up everywhere"
Boy, are you WEIRD!
The question was - any good/bad examples of layouts/junctions?
How can you POSSIBLY twist that to your "one club in the bag" -
the rabid anti-police rant?
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Hi Blue,
All I can say is that where I live, there have been a number (quite a significant number) of council traffic-calming/speed-calming/measures, as well as those (don't know what they're called) bits of pavement that they build jutting out over the road, so that at times the forward and backward lanes of traffic have no option but to give way to each other. We have had many of these sorts of things implemented in our area - and, usually, a year or two down the line, with no announcement, they are just removed - obviously council recognises a failure but fails to mention how much of people's council tax etc has been wasted on these schemes, that most people would have realised wouldn't work anyway.
Probably not that relevant to your post, and if not I'm sorry, but - just my opinion :(
HF
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Hi HF.
What you're saying IS relevant, the councils spend ££££ on these schemes when there are roads in dire need of work just to keep them passable.
Round here, there are some residential roads that haven't been "adopted" by the council, most of these haven't been repaired ever, and I do mean never since they were built, so most of them are in really bad condition with many potholes and overgrowth so much so that some really are now impassable to most vehicles. So why waste money putting in bottlenecks, more traffic lights, etc.?
Some schemes round here have even cost lives, the bottlenecks on the main road through Seaham have caused several accidents, which by their nature tend to be head on and involve quite a lot of injuries.
It's about time that the people who plan these things were forced to use them. How can they justify having a non-driver in charge of road planning!?
Oh dear, rant mode off!
Have a nice night! :)
Blue
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Blue,
you have a good night too :)
Don't have anything remotely interesting to add to your post, other than that I agree with all you say! Just that having non-drivers in charge of road-planning is plainly ridiculous.
Good night Blue and all of you, keep safe.
HF
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Yes,
we will constantly get traffic-creating stupidity for a number of reasons:
1. We have control-freaks in power, not just in government but also in local councils
2. They have little accountability or skill for the job
3. It's not their money their wasting with their "experiments"
4. Local council employees are VERY difficult to sack (they usually get promoted)
5. The general public are happy to implement a restriction on someone else, but usually moan as soon as something affects them adversely. Result: more restrictions every year... any taken away?
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In the town where I live a bus lane was installed and removed within a very few months and traffic lights on a roundabout lasted only a matter of weeks.
In London bus lanes spring up and are then wiped out almost overnight.
Road paint manufacturers shares must ba a good inventment!
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In Southampton, a brilliant little bit of new road across some waste ground was created that saved a massive traffic jam.
At the end of it was a (necessary) set of lights with one of those slip roads that bypass the lights and don't have a traffic light on them. Except this one did. For two days.
God knows what it cost to put the lights (2 pillars) and paint the road, but two days of nightmare congestion and they were gone. SWMBO and I passed through before the junction was complete and I told her the lights would cause havoc.
How come I could see it but the traffic planners couldn't?
V
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And when I lived in Cambridge:
On Elisabeth Way, there was a set of "part time" lights on a roundabout that used to be off only between midnight and five AM. Hardly worth switching the things off, I thought once, while waiting at half past eleven on an empty roundabout.
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I know I've said this before BUT, I can't believe how much white paint is being used at the moment. Chvroned areas seem to be poping up all over, particularly at junctions where they make the turn more shallow. Why bother. I can't see that it makes any difference, not least as so many ignore road signs anyway. How many here could say how many different types of white lane markings there are and what they are used for?
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There are 247 different types of white lane markings and they are used for keeping white lane painting people in emplyment.
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and I bet thats just the lot outside your house!
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In Chelmsford a while back they made some pretty bus lanes and put lights on the Odeon roundabout, at God knows what expense.
The lights were turned on for the Monday morning and caused absolute mayhem, the local radio jocks got caught in the chaos and spent all day poking fun at the council. They tried again on Tuesday morning, same result. The orange bags they put over the lights are now a very faded yellow and as far as I know there are no plans to turn the lights on again. It seems that the council could only take so much ridicule before they stopped their 'experiment' but I think two days must be a bit of a record!
Cockle
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Anybody know how much it costs for a traffic light stalk and the labour to install it? On one roundabout near us I counted 20 stalks before giving up, for roads, pedestrians and the cycle track which goes across the centre of the roundabout(god knows why)and requires its own dedicated sets of lights. And what purpose do these 20+ sets of lights serve? - to hold up traffic waiting for non-existent pedestrians and cyclists. Isn't the purpose of roundabouts to do away with the need for lights? (Or vice-versa)
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hmm well in Stoke they implemented a set of traffic lights on a big roundabout on the A500 about 4 years ago.
The A500 is very busy 2 lane highway acting as an alternative to the M6/route to A1/M1.
First try was a shambles. Jams etc. Then they reprogrammed the lights to change quickly and keep traffic moving. Now very good apart from jams at rush hour which are inevitable due to volume..
Shows what can be done..
(I think simple schemes are given to trainee planners to see what can be done and hang the expense.. trial and error seems to be the rule... Queuing thoery? What's that?)
madf
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Cockle
Yes, it was the Odeon and Parkway that I was alluding to above.
ATB
Brian
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I work right next to the Dartford tunnel and bridge and all the roundabouts at Junction 1A of the M25 have traffic lights. Often the roundabouts are jammed because the tailback from the lights blocks the flow of traffic.
Craziest of all though is the situation that confronts me if I work late.
I may leave at 8:00pm and sit at a red traffic light on an empty roundabout.
Most people, including me, in my office just run the lights now, having checked first for traffic and the OB.
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In fact I should say, in order to leave the third exit of the roundabout, I have to sit at three sets of lights.
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Well, the lights were back on today. :(
I'm gonna see what the council reply to my e-mail with, if they reply at all that is. If they say the lights are staying on, then I'm going to exercise my right as a new voter to send them stroppy e-mails. :)
Won't do any good though, our council seems as thick as you know what, as has been pointed out, they have few actual skills or abilities and just rely on the fact that the people of this City will continue to vote in a Labour Council even if the candidate was a monkey. No matter how bad they are, we're stuck with them. :(
Blue
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Blue Oval
No wonder you smiled! When you think about it, surely it should be obvious that adding lights to a roundabout destroys its principle of operation and negates its reason for existence. Never mind, it's traffic planners we're dealing with.
Regards
John S
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Traffic flowed a lot better here in Salisbury when they were added to a few roundabouts - stopped the average moron from blocking entry roads when queueing. Yellow boxes should have had the same effect but local drivers have no idea what they mean.
Sometimes you get the roads you deserve.
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Well, here is the council\'s response to my e-mail, word for word:
*************
A single lane approach to a roundabout will be capable of carrying something like 2,000 vehicles an hour. However the capacity of an entry onto the roundabout is much much less than this and is dependent on the volume of traffic passing the entry. A relatively small but constant volume of traffic past an entry can reduce the capacity of the entry to almost zero.
This is even worse where the approach is in two lanes where each lane can carry a high volume of traffic but a much lower volume of traffic passing the entry will prevent drivers from gaining entry.
Signalising a roundabout can help overcome this problem to a degree by simply stopping the circulation traffic for a while and allowing traffic on the entry arm to flow.
Whether you think the roundabout works better without the signals probably depends on the movements you want to make, or whether you are a pedestrian.
Before this roundabout was signalised there were concerns, mainly about safety because getting onto the roundabout from Stockton Road was very difficult due to the volume of traffic passing that entry. There was also congestion, mainly in the evening peak at the Stockton Road entry.
This led to a certain amount of risk-taking by drivers to get onto the roundabout at this entry, and the roundabout did have an accident record.
Bus operators also complained that they were delayed at this
roundabout.
Signalisation of the roundabout has enabled a redistribution of queues and the accident record appears to have improved. There is also little congestion.
Importantly signalisation also allows a full-time pedestrian facility across Stockton Road.
If the pedestrian facility wasn\'t there it would be very difficult for able bodied pedestrians to cross the road at this location and impossible for anyone not fully able bodied.
The Inner Ring Road can be something of a barrier to pedestrian movement and the Council is often encouraged to improve ped facilities, most recently in a study concerning the city\'s evening economy, for instance. The pedestrian facility forms part of the signal control and if the signals were made part-time then the pedestrian facility would switch itself off too.
Whilst it would probably be possible to overcome this problem it would lead to an unusual form of control thereby making the roundabout more difficult to understand with part being full-time signal controlled and part being part-time signal controlled.
Rather embarassingly the signals were off at the beginning of last week due to a collision. When they were switched on by our contractors they were wired incorrectly resulting in one set of signals being on a red when they should have been green and this caused significant delays and queing problems until it was rectified.
The signals have now been repaired and I believe that they operate satisfactorily.
***********
Quite enlightening, but I still think that it flowed better without the lights...
Blue
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A very reasonable letter, I am impressed that they took the time.
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So was I, but then they did win a "Beacon Council" award or something, maybe I should send them an e-mail sometime and ask if they would be able to trim the bushes that obstruct my view of a different roundabout's approach lanes...
I've got to admit, one thing that I did forget about was the pedestrian crossings, without those some people may well find accessing the City Centre something of a challenge... Fortunately I can simply drive into the City Centre, and park either inside the centre itself (and I do mean inside the main shopping complex) for 80p an hour in a secure patrolled car park, or park for free in my Uni car park 1/4 mile from the shops :) Although the uni one isn't secure though...
Blue
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out of interest, which City is it ?
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Sorry, think I should have mentioned that! It's Sunderland.
Would recommend it to anyone thinking of moving to the N.E.
Blue
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I've just realised we are both writing about the same roundabout.
Have you or the council noticed how fast drivers take off when they get past this bottle neck due to sheer frustration. 60mph down the 30mph zone on Durham rd is not unusual. Doesn't do too much for pedestrian safety.
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In Sunderland at the end of the Durham Rd. there is a roundabout with several sets of lights all around it. Roundabout is far too small for this to work so nobody gets in the right lane and people read the wrong lights and go through on red. Lights are usually on at all times but recently failed with result that traffic flowed much more smoothly.
There is no doubt that these lights are a little bit of Labour council dogma designed to impede traffic flow, inhibit cars from going anywhere near the city centre and try to push us onto the buses.
Sunderland shop keepers note, I will now never go anywhere near the city centre. Tell that to the council when you pay your inflated business rates.
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Hey DC, I definately agree that they have got the City a bit of a pain to drive round now, but to be honest, would you like to drive through Newcastle? That must be 5X worse! Awful place. :)
I find people definately go in the wrong lane if they're going into the City, but coming back, there's no excuse, the lanes are clearly marked, maybe you could mess it up once, but you just know that some people mess it up every time they go around it!
I wouldn't live anywhere else though. :) Got to admit, I was impressed with the council responding like they did.
Do you live on North side or South side BTW?
Blue
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Live on the South work on the North so as you can imagine see a lot of the city inner ring on my travels.
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Same here, well, I go to Uni on the North anyway.
I wish they would hurry up and finish the bridge repairs, it's been draging on for months, and I'm sick of driving over that lump of raised tarmac every time I go over it, the bump disturbs my sleep. :)
Blue
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