Too expensive. We're going into London on Tuesday as a family. To drive to Zone 6, park and Tube is a total cost, including fuel, parking and travelcard on tube/bus, of about £25 for the four of us. By train, with the tube/bus travelcard (unavailable inclusively, has to be bought separately - don't you just love our integrated system!), it's nearly £40. And that's without station parking charges.
It's the same story with my commute. For what it would cost me for an annual season ticket, I could buy a £2500 car, tax it, insure it, and fuel it for a year, write it off/give it away at the end of the year, and start again, and still save enough for next year's RFL.
Totally, completely irrelevant on cost grounds IMHO.
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Totally completely irrelevant on cost grounds IMHO.
Horses for courses, think you'll find for some its much cheaper and quicker by train, for others its the opposite... worth checking and then deciding.
Perhaps not for those on Eurostar yesterday, though... But the Ferries had problems as well!! Glad I stayed in...
Edited by b308 on 20/12/2009 at 14:00
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For instance 7 miles from home to leeds is £1.60 return that is cheaper than the bus and a taxi, and the car epesially if you have to pay to park.
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Apparently condensation in the electrics going from very cold outside to a very warm tunnel is the problem. I wonder how they will get round the problem, because although rare, it needs to be sorted. I thought they might be able to use diesel locos to haul the trains, but maybe there is a safety issue concerning the fumes. But being diesel electric, they may suffer the same problem. And isn't the rail gauge different? Sorry for going off the motoring theme.
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When the train is waiting outside my front door 24/7 and there is a station at every destination I visit I will use it. Till then I will stick to the car, thanks.
It's also about time they paved over all but the Inter City and busy commuter routes and used them for buses and taxis, instead of wasting a fortune running trains that are mostly carrying a handful of passengers.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 20/12/2009 at 14:24
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I love train travel and would always use it in preference....if i could afford it.
Unfortunately it's a compete rip off and is therefore only used by me for necessity, though if i worked in a city i would probably pay the extra for ease and convenience, don't think i could cope with a 2 hour hell drive to work and then repeat return every evening.
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We flew to the Philippines for just under £400 each in September. If we travel by train, from Leeds to London, economy class return tomorrow, it would cost us £446 for two tickets.
That peak time of course - but so was the flight.
Edited by oilrag on 20/12/2009 at 14:39
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What we need is a good old fasioned fuel strike in the uk this will get you to leave the car at home and hop on the train.!!
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"Apparently condensation in the electrics going from very cold outside to a very warm tunnel is the problem."
I heard that on the news also.
How does warming stuff cause condensation?
I thought cooling the air caused condensation.
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Warm wet air in the tunnel cooled on the cold metal train from outside = condensation on train.
Edited by Old Navy on 20/12/2009 at 15:32
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The train is very cold and enters a warm humid tunnel causing it to be covered in condensation. A bit like when I'm working outside in winter then I go indoors for a cuppa and my glasses steam up and I can't see a damn thing for a while!
Its affecting the trains from Paris to London because they are running for a much longer period of time outside, compared to Paris bound trains. They are gingerly running empty test trains at the moment to try to get to the root of the problem. The slower running freight trains are unaffected.
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How does warming stuff cause condensation? I thought cooling the air caused condensation.
AIUI the issue is with moisture in the warm humid tunnel condensing on parts cooled by sub zero temperatures.
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Thanks chaps! Suppose I should have thought about it a bit more (So should Eurotunnel!!)
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Off peak, advance booking or using deals such as Groupsave can be incredibly cheap.
Even my annual season from Northampton to London at an eye watering £4000 is far cheaper than driving, parking and paying the congestion charge.
On the other hand walk up fares on Virgin or East Coast are nothing short of a rip off, but on the other hand the peak trains are often full.
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Although I have virtually free use of cars and fuel a do really like travelling by train. Some incredible deals if you book at the right time. I also like doing some of the cheap coach trips. Had a 200 mile return journey recently for £3 on the coach!
Condensation is a problem that can affect cars as well (Although in slightly different circumstances), and its not a though cars dont break down and leave you stranded sometimes! I do sympathise with the train company, some of these technical problems can be very difficult to solve. That Kent MP who wants the Eurostar boss to resign is a right jerk.
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The railway line runs within sight of my house and right past my workplace. Unfortunately there are no convenient stations!
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I use the train all the time, from Manchester to Warrington I use the following modes of transport
1) Car to drive to the tram stop
2) Tram to the city centre
3) Train from the city to Warrington
It makes life interesting. Oh and I never pay any more than £60 return to London by train.
Trains can be expensive, Manchester to Llandudno is nearly £30 and it takes two hours, so for that journey for the car wins every day. Manchester to Liverpool I would rather take the train and avoid the horrible east lancs road with all those traffic light cameras to cause panic.
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Manchester to Liverpool I wouldrather take the train and avoid the horrible east lancs road with all those traffic light cameras to cause panic.
The East Lancs road could be avoided by taking the M62, but as iirc it's £12 return by train I'd be tempted to take the train anyway to save having to worry about parking, especially if traveling alone, obviously the car gets to be a cheaper option when there is a group of you.
Edited by Mookfish on 20/12/2009 at 17:15
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Back in the summer when my previous Vectra died I caught the train into work one day, Hinton Admiral to Basingstoke was 18 quid return at peak times, didn't seem too bad for a 100 mile round trip.
If going to Lymington, where parking on a Saturday is a right PITA, I sometimes get the train form Brockenhurst down the branch instead, just about the only slam door units left on the national network now I think,
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just about the only slam door units left on the national network now I think
All the Intercity125 carriages that I've seen have slam doors, which can only be opened from the inside by dropping the window and using the outside handle.
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That Kent MP who wants the Eurostar boss to resign is a right jerk.
Quite right. Telling the Eurostar boss to resign is not going to help anyone, and these problems can appear whoever is in charge.
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It was also mentioned that the trains were running at a lower KPH in the cold weather and that the snow build up on the train later causes problems when the snow starts to melt, big chunks drop off and cause ( unexplained) problems.
Quite a challenge to quickly diagnose/ resolve the problem with the changing weather state.
How to simulate the conditions in order to verify the problem is fixed ?
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During the night at quiter hours a special diesel train with a pantograph goes out this is the ice scraper it removes the ice from the overheads, this causes arching on the panto arm when the current jumps over the ice., this leads to lots of problems with the motors tripping out.
Those are very similar to the class 91 which is used from london-edingburgh.
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It was also mentioned that the trains were running at a lower KPH in the cold weather and that the snow build up on the train later causes problems when the snow starts to melt big chunks drop off and cause ( unexplained) problems.
The problem is lumps of hard snow / ice come off at 200 kph or whatever and end up going through the windscreen / windows of a passing train.
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The report seemed to imply the chunks caused problems on the underside of the units.
I cannot find any reference to it and the railway sites also seem to have no further info.
We will have to wait and see what the PR department says.
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The problem is lumps of hard snow / ice come off at 200 kph or whatever and end up going through the windscreen / windows of a passing train.
Ice won't break those windows there toughened safety glass, there very thick.
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The entire journey through France isn't entirely on E* dedicated lines though is it? Not all train windows ( including non E*) can withstand KGs of snow impacting at 300 kph or whatever closing speed I would think.
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Ice won't break those windows there toughened safety glass there very thick.
Modern high speed trains like Eurostar have (very) think laminated glass windscreens, I've been on one where the screen was hit by a brick thrown from a bridge at 125mph and it crazed the outer pane but the inner one was ok... hell of a bang though... They are about £10k each incidentally, just in case anyone was thinking about getting one for their car!!
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It's mainly the traction motors underneath the train that are getting problems; the transformers in the main bodyshell of the power cars don't get the same trouble because it's quite warm inside them whereas the traction motor surrounds are quite cold. That's where the condensation happens when they enter the tunnel.
The air inside the tunnel is typically between 25°C and 40°C - mostly heat generated from the transformers on the trains passing through.
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We flew to the Philippines for just under £400 each in September. If we travel by train from Leeds to London economy class return tomorrow it would cost us £446 for two tickets.
Same here - Bristol to London on the train return = £165 plus car park charges. It's actually cheaper for me to fly to Glasgow or Edinburgh = £100 return plus parking. Then again First Great Western is expensive.
Off peak is cheaper but that's not always convenient. Getting in your car and starting the journey to your own timescales = very convenient.
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