We have cause to use the local Ford dealer a fair bit (talk to them a couple of times a week) so I know the service manager and most of the techs pretty well.
The Ford warranty used to be 2 years Factory and one year top-up by Ford UK. the top-up bit is really a sort of insurance scheme that they subscribe to and has more restrictions than a factory warranty. Then Ford changed it to one year factory and two years top up. I think the rest of Europe still gets a two-year factory warranty so in that respect buying an EU import Ford can be better then buying a UK-market car.
This has implications for us because owners cannot have their car serviced by us during the two years of top-up (it has to be done by a Ford dealer as part of the conditions).
Water ingress into the cabin and trim faults may be excluded from the second two years (you would have to check the small print to be sure), but |I know they eclude water ingress into ECUs during years 2 and 3 because last month we sorted out an ECU repair on an '07 Mondeo for this very reason.
I do know a number of brands are being pressed very hard to reduce warranty claims at the moment, this includes Ford, Peugeot, Renault and Fiat.
Some brands like Subaru and Nissan offer a genuine 3 year European wide warranty, which is what you want really.
My experience is that the prospects of getting work done under warranty are proportional to the reliability of the car, in other words Fiat and Renault very difficult, most Japanese not too bad.
EDIT: I think Ford Direct warranty is different again because its given by a different division of Ford, but I have heard good things about it from customers.
Edited by WorkshopTech on 02/12/2009 at 15:03
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I've never had any problems with claims against Ford-the problems are more likely to be with your local dealer-mine has always been excellent.Most manufacturers offer the same warranty as Ford.-ie. first year with manufacturer,subsequent years thro' dealer.There has never been a requirement for cars to be serviced at a Ford dealer-just that it must be serviced to Ford specifications(which can be downloaded from the web) using Ford-approved parts.
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Most manufacturers offer the same warranty as Ford.-ie. first year with manufacturer subsequent years thro' dealer.There has never been a requirement for cars to be serviced at a Ford dealer-just that it must be serviced to Ford specifications(which can be downloaded from the web) using Ford-approved parts.
No, that's not correct (I know a little bit about this).
Most European manufacturers offer a two-year bumper-to-bumper factory warranty, with the third and any subsequent years being covered as a dealer only warranty. This is what Ford used to offer until they cut the factory warranty to one year. These are more restrictive. Usually paint and corrosion is factory cover. The dealer warranties can have terms applied to them (such as must service at franchised dealer and usually have a mileage limit). With a factory warranty you are able to have the car serviced at any legitimate (VAT registered) workshop provided service schedule is adhered to. Some dealer warrantues are quite restrictive, eg Fiat will only cover certain electrical and mechanical items in the third year, lot of exclusions which can lead to irate customers.
Most of the Fords sold in last few years had a dealer warranty condition that required the car to be serviced at a Ford dealer dutring the dealer warranty period, but they have dropped that (or so I have been told by the Ford service manager).
You do not have to use Ford parts, but parts must be of what is called 'matching quality', and most aftermarket parts sold by the big factors meet this requirement.
Most cars, but not all, from outside the EU come with full factory warranty for three years or more.
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I have found years 2 and 3 warranty to be fairly comprehensive, my old 2003 Focus had an instrument panel replaced (Before the problem became widespread and well known) at 2years and 9 months, and a air-bag system sensor replaced at 3years and 3 days. There was no question about putting that through the system!
I guess a lot depends on the dealer, mine is named after a place named for making Fords, but here again some different branches of the same dealer would probably be less helpful.
Andrew
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>>But water ingress is not covered in the remaining 2 years of the warranty!
I find that shocking.
I've owned a couple of Fords, and made warranty claims on both. Both were because (no coincidence here!) of rust on the bodywork - one at over 5 years old. Ford paid up both times.
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One of the reasons i won't be buying Ford.Toyota here i come.Take note Ford,your customers are not very happy with your attitude and will shop elsewhere.Also it doesn't seem like Ford have much faith in their cars does it?
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"One of the reasons i won't be buying Ford.Toyota here i come.Take note Ford,your customers are not very happy with your attitude and will shop elsewhere.Also it doesn't seem like Ford have much faith in their cars does it?"
Err..no. I'd buy another new or used Ford in a heartbeat.
tt
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>>But water ingress is not covered in the remaining 2 years of the warranty! I find that shocking. I've owned a couple of Fords and made warranty claims on both. Both were because (no coincidence here!) of rust on the bodywork - one at over 5 years old. Ford paid up both times.
I find it shocking too. Water leaks are a pretty bad thing to be happening on a young car with such low miles. But the fact Ford doesn't even cover such a thing (which is a result of faulty manufacturing/poor workmanship, no fault of my own) is just crazy.
I'm seriously considering a Japanese car as my next purchase - but not their small cars. That Toyota IQ thing is a joke, and Aygo has a smaller boot than the old Ka. I don't really like the look of the Yaris either. But something like an Avenis or Auris could be a serious consideration sometime in the future. I would dearly miss the superb handling and character of my Ka though. :(
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Another update. Ford has decided they will pay for 100% of the repair. They are also fitting new carpet underlay. I must say I am more pleased with how its been handled this time - this garage is much more responsive and professional than the dealer I bought the car from. And so far, Ford UK has paid for all repairs and work that has been done outside of the 1 year base warranty, so I can't complain about that. But I still maintain that it shouldn't work this way. It should be a 3 year manufacturer factory warranty that covers pretty much everything, no fuss. But instead Ford would rather keep doing things as goodwill gestures?
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But instead Ford would rather keep doing things as goodwill gestures?
To get the complete truth read your Warranty and Service Guide.
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To get the complete truth read your Warranty and Service Guide.
Which I did, several times. It's really quite vague about what is covered and what isn't. I confirmed with 3 different Ford garages and Ford head office that water ingress is not covered under 2nd/3rd years of the warranty. I also know others who have had water leak problems on their Fords and they were told the same thing.
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But I still maintain that it shouldn't work this way.
You're right about that. These things are supposed to be about peace of mind, not giving you a load of hassle.
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>> But I still maintain that it shouldn't work this way. You're right about that. These things are supposed to be about peace of mind not giving you a load of hassle.
Well, yes. If you have not read my account of my struggles to claim for rust on my Ka, you may be interested to read about how much hassle it was.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=65619
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"water ingress is not covered under 2nd/3rd years of the warranty."
Of course not. What do you expect. Anything to do with trim that fails should show up in the first year anyway and be seen to by Ford. No question. If your boot was filling up in the first year it would have been covered. If the ingress of water happened in the 2nd or 3rd year, then tough. Thats how the warranty works.
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>>If the ingress of water happened in the 2nd or 3rd year, then tough. Thats how the warranty works.<<
Unless you buy Far eastern and get a proper warranty. Tee hee.
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Unless you buy Far eastern and get a proper warranty. Tee hee.
The cost to the manufacturer of all warranties is factored into the product purchase price.
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>>The cost to the manufacturer of all warranties is factored into the product purchase price<<
Which begs the question why are Fords not substantially cheaper than cars with longer warranties - what exactly are you paying extra for? Its not the product anymore, all cars are pretty good.
With that in mind, one must assume Ford expect their cars to fail more expensively or earlier and so wont warrant them for as long - a warranty only costs money if a claim is made and that is down to product quality.
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If the ingress of water happened in the 2nd or 3rd year, then tough. Thats how the warranty works.
..but not Honda's, Toyotas...
I've a Honda that was a Cyprus import - the 3 year Europe-wide warranty applied, albeit for 60,000 miles and not the 90,000 of a UK-sourced car.
Ford is clearly not very up front about the limitations of its so-called warranty, and few would assume that what could well be a manufacturing fault would be excluded.
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"what could well be a manufacturing fault would be excluded."
If its a manufacturing fault, surely it would be evident from purchase within the first year.
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"what could well be a manufacturing fault would be excluded." If its a manufacturing fault surely it would be evident from purchase within the first year.
Please explain to me how a split in the bulkhead is not a manufacturing fault.
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>>Please explain to me how a split in the bulkhead is not a manufacturing fault.<<
Part of the ventilation system...? Not really a manufacturing fault - its actually a design fault as somebody clearly didnt do their calculations and testing correctly at the design stage.
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Can't see what the cause of the fault is to do with the warranty, or indeed the SOGA! Its a fault and the onus is on the dealer to get it rectified.
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What I find bizzare (as per my posting further up) is that we have found that Ford will not pay for water ingress into ECU's and wiring after year 1.
Some manufacturing faults take more than one year to manifest, presumably that is why warranties are given for three years. The split bulkhead is probably a manuf fault (missing/failed welds or failure of sealant), if it was a design fault you would expect large number of these cars to be suffering in the same why (which they are not as far as I know).
Incidentally, people comment about one dealer being more helpful than another.
Heres how it works..
Dealers love to do warranty work on your car, especially in these difficult times. So long as its not something wierd and wonderful (very intermittent) they will want the job. However they also want to get paid for it, so they have to make a judgement about whether the manuf. will pay them for the work. Some manuf. like Ford, Fiat, Renault, Peugeot make life difficult for dealers and will often knock back a claim as not being covered or wear and tear. In that case the dealer will have to stand the cost himself.
The manuf send out reps to speak to the service managers every now and again and will look at what they call KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) like how many parts being sold, how much warranty work done. If a dealer is doing more warranty work than the average then the manuf may red-flag him and check the claims very carefully and be more stringent on claims to pull him back into line. That is why some dealers can be very tight on work and some less so.
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A colleague had a diesel Ford Maverick, owned from new, which had expensive problems with the fuel system. Ford washed their hands of it, stating such problems were not covered by warranty ,blaming the problem on contaminated fuel.Without any proof.Correct fuel was used, from a major chain, and provable from receipts. Colleague then bought a Nissan Terrano having quizzed them about the scope of the warranty. No similar exclusions.
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Ah yes, the famous 'fuel contamination' that is usually trotted out as a first line of defence when a Ford diesel has a pump or injector failure under warranty. Ford are very very tight on these repairs because the cost can become horrific. All pumps have to be sent back for inspection and are usually judged to have been damaged by misfuelling - surprise surprise. To be fair its not really the dealers fault, Im sure most of them want to help, but HQ is judge and jury and once they have got the pump you are in their hands. The best thing with this sort of fault is to get an inspection done by a third party diesel expert (try asking AA or RAC to recommend) before letting anything get sent away.
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"Please explain to me how a split in the bulkhead is not a manufacturing fault."
Your leak would have shown up from day 1. If the case is a manufacturing fault in your opinion, how come no-one else on here, and there are a lot of Focus owners, have not highlighted the same problem (i.e. split bulkhead). I've owned 8 focuses across the mk1 and mk2 range and have never had a warranty problem or suffered the kind of problem you state you have.
Maybe its happened as the result of something else that was over and above the stress tolerances for your bulkhead, in which case the warranty wouldn't pay out even in the first year.
Please keep us Focus owners informed of the outcome, because there might need to be a recall for a particular batch. But at the moment my interiors are free from water ingress.
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"Please explain to me how a split in the bulkhead is not a manufacturing fault." Your leak would have shown up from day 1. If the case is a manufacturing fault in your opinion how come no-one else on here and there are a lot of Focus owners have not highlighted the same problem (i.e. split bulkhead).
First of all, its a Mk1 Ka, not a Focus. You might want to try reading my original post at the top of the thread. :-) It was manufactured in November 2007, bought by me as first registered owner brand new in June 2008. I've done 6,040 miles in it since buying it - and probably 300 of these miles are trips to/from the dealer for repair work, and the driving the dealer did in the car to find and fix the noise problems.
There were definitely no water leaks in the first year. I check the entire condition of the car on a weekly basis. It is not a design fault - all old Fords are subject to water leaks in the footwells, but its most common on ones that are old, not a car like mine which is only 2 years old (if you calculate it from the day it was built), and only 1.5 years since it was first registered.
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The only problem with buying a car that doesnt go wrong is that it restricts you next time as you have higher standards. Keep to Ford or your expectations will get ahead of you :)
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In my experience the 2nd and 3rd years of the warranty have been a seemless extention of year one, its just that manufacturers are legally obliged to state that the first year is a manufacturer warranty. The fact that the 2nd and 3rd year is called a dealer warranty counts for nothing in that any dealer will honour the warranty, not only the supplying dealer, and of course many if not most dealers are owned by Ford now anyway.
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Agreed.
Warranty claims on some items are bound to be harder to get paid the older the car gets.
It's called wear and tear, which is partly a function of age.
Something like a seat seam coming apart is obviously a valid claim in month one, but less obviously so in month 35 with 50,000 miles on the clock.
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......... - all old Fords are subject to water leaks in the footwells ..........
Codswallop!
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L'es, a bit hard on JC there - from the context, it looks like a 'not' was missed out.
BIG
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No, what I said was what I meant. All old Fords can have this problem. All old models of Fiesta, Escort, Ka, Focus, Mondeo, Galaxy. But its usually common on ones that are 10+ years old, not a newer one like mine.
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Got the car back today - seems like they did a good job. Took them longer than they thought previously because they had to remove a lot of things to fix the problem. I'm just happy they managed to solve it and refit everything correctly. And to make me even happier, the dashboard doesn't rattle at all (I had fears that they would refit it incorrectly and this would result in the sorts of rattles I was experiencing before). They also valeted the car - dashboard plastics look much darker now. I should really stop being lazy and clean it more often.
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Here's yet another example of why Ford's warranty is stupid. Since new, the VIN plate in the engine bay of my car has been missing. I noticed this just before the water leak problem. I called the dealer I bought the car from today - guy I spoke to said he had one case of this before, and it took weeks to solve. I was passed onto the parts department - guy said a VIN plate costs £75. I said, no, it won't, because it's been like this from new so there's no reason I should be paying for it. I'm still puzzled as to how the car passed quality control (heh, if there is any) with the engine bay VIN plate missing.
So once again I am doing this through Ford customer relations to have it done as a "goodwill gesture" under warranty. Still waiting for a call back from them to decide how to go about it.
Surely Ford could be more productive as a company if they didn't have to run a call center of people "investigating" problems that should automatically be covered under warranty anyway?
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"I said, no, it won't, because it's been like this from new"
From new. Why didn't you highlight at that time?
Edited by spood on 14/12/2009 at 12:58
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sq
Didn't realise until recently - its not really something you pay attention to or think about on a new car. When you collect your car from the dealer, you don't usually think..."Right, I'll check the VIN plate is there just in case they missed it!". Obviously its important when buying a used car, and for your MOT tests, but not so much when its new.
Edited by Pugugly on 14/12/2009 at 14:11
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And selling it on - especially private.
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You mean you don't check the vin number of the car against the documentation on delivery? How do you know you have the right car? The dealer may have dozens of the same model and spec, and mistakes are made.
Edited by Old Navy on 14/12/2009 at 14:18
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Dodgey welding, missing Vin plate. Are you sure you bought this legit?
Can't see why you feel having a missing Vin plate is a monstrous omission from the warranty. Or are you nit picking.
There should be a Vin number at the bottom of the windscreen anyway. I've never had a missing Vin plate from any Ford I've bought. A bit strange.
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Don't know about "Fiat" Ka but a "Ford" Ka does not have a VIN plate in the engine compartment-it's on the door pillar,also at the bottom of the screen and stamped into the floor by the driver's seat.
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Yes -I know it shows it there in the handbook but it was moved to the doorpillar some time ago!Also my alarm bleeps twice on setting and once on releasing-handbook says opposite.Dagenham Motors and Bristol Street Motors and one or two other groups are owned by Ford but most dealers are privately owned or are part of larger non-Ford groups.Dutton Forshaw,for instance,own many chains of dealers of all makes but you don't see their name over the dealerships.
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Hmm I see other people are not impressed with Ford's warranty. In my experience it is very badly worded and is vague to say the least.
Basically anything not in the Exclusions list comes down to wear an tear (their favourite phrase)
My 2008 Focus diesel had an annoying rattle fro mthe airbag cover - turns out the airbag was faulty (car is just 2 years old) and it cost me £360.00 after Ford Customer Assistance contributed 30%. I cannot see how the warranty deems and air bag to be Wear & Tear - surely its a non optional item and is a safety feature ?
If I had crashed the car before it was replaced and it had not worked..... would they have contributed to any medical expenses ??
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