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We're thinking of buying a Hyundai i20 under the scrappage scheme. The electronic stability program (ESP) is an option which I'm considering.
I have read up about what it does and it's clearly a good safety device, but I'm thinking I probably won't get it. Reasoning as follows :
a) Main driver will be my wife - given that she spends most of her time driving around town quite sedately and doesn't push her car anywhere near its limits, I'm not sure it's really of much use to her, especially on a car with only a 1.2 engine;
b) In due course, I'm expecting my kids to learn to drive on this car. I think a key part of learning is to begin to understand the dynamics of a car, how to deal with skids etc - and they won't be able to do this if ESP is fitted. So, I'm then concerned that, once they've learnt to drive with an ESP-equipped car, they might be caught out if they switch to a non-ESP car.
Should be grateful for input as to whether you would buy an ESP-equipped car for your kids to learn on. Thanks
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I agree with kids learning car control, off road of course, but soon all cars will have ESP. As for your good lady, it only takes a greasy roundabout or bend to catch someone out, could pay for itself by stopping one fender bender or kerb hit.
Edited by Old Navy on 29/04/2009 at 21:17
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would you go out and buy your kids a car without ABS so they know about locking up wheels?
No of course you wont. Its the same argument.
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A while back I did an advanced driving course where all sorts of driving conditions could be simulated.
One of the things I discovered is that ESP, contrary to popular opinion, is not really intended to help the driver of a Porsche get round a high speed bend whilst driving at the limit. It's at its best in assisting drivers in normal cars, at lower speeds, when something unexpected happens such as the wet roundabout scenario mentioned above.
During this particular course I drove a range of cars with ESP activated and deactivated (as in properly deactivated, not just with the switch on the dash which in a lot of cases only partly deactivates it). We then had to steer around obstacles, some of which appeared out of nowhere, on a variety of cold and/or wet surfaces On the BMWs and Porsches it made no difference whatsoever having ESP at normal speeds (below 50km/h) whatever the surface condition. The suspension on these cars is competent enough to get the driver out of trouble at these speeds.
However, on the cheaper cars, in this case Citroens and Hyundais, it made a big difference to the stability. Actually, it frequently made the difference between being able to retain control of the car or ending up knocking down the (simulated) pedestrian or ending up in the (simulated) scenery. Quite an eye opener for me.
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i think that is a good case in point Bagpuss, so many people think that a car should do all things for all men,the biggest problem i find is fathers come to buy their precious offspring a car and then complain the brakes dont work
im thinking $20,000 repmobile against a $1299 fiesta
worst thing is they think you are trying to hide something when you explain that the little fiesta only has discs and drums against the full shekuddle discs and toys of their car
i was accused of selling a dangerous car yesterday because the drums on the rear of a car had gone slightly rusty internally due to not being used (i took offence seeing as every car i have i give a full brake check to) he went with a flee in his ear but obviously im a dodgy dealer to him selling dangerous cars
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Check it can be turned off.
If it can't (like our first smarts) it can be a nightmare on slippy surfaces as you can't spin the wheels to get you moving. The ESP keeps cutting power and you sit there going nowhere, resulting in someone needing to give you a push.
I'm not just talking 6 inch of snow here either, a slightly muddy gently sloping field which are often used for parking could have you struggling.
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Just a few observations re the i20.
I have been able to clean and examine quite a few i20's lately.
Generally it seems pretty well put together only the odd plastic surface/component is a little cheap, especially the fuse box under the steering wheel, the boot carpet doesnt fit too well and the exposed wires under the back seats aren't impressive.
Some faults I have found are:
1. Some early models have been recalled for water ingress arouind the bottom of the windscreen.
2. I've noticed quite a few specks if dirt in the paint, some big enough to be sharp, also the paint seems to be covered in fallout, sandpaper rough.
3. We've had a back passenger door that wont open, presumable a faulty mechanism.
4. Rubber seals around the doors are often badly fitted or misformed/bent.
5. The plastic screens on the dash are very cheap and prone to scratching, especially the airbag/seatbelt display.
Its good value for money, but the Indian build quality certainly isnt up with the best. However the i10 seems to be better made from my experience.
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Rich320d - thanks for an interesting post. Do you get to examine any other cars besides Hyundai? If so which ones are well put together in your experience?
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One of the things I discovered is that ESP ..... It's at its best in assisting drivers in normal cars at lower speeds when something unexpected happens such as the wet roundabout scenario mentioned above..... it frequently made the difference between being able to retain control of the car or ending up knocking down the (simulated) pedestrian or ending up in the (simulated) scenery.
As hard as I try, I cant remember a time where everytime it rained, cars went sliding off the road out of control.
So, to my mind this says one of 2 things, in days gone by, people drove more carefully and didnt need the aids, or the cars today arent as controllable as they used to be when they dont have the computer aids...
( BTW I do understand the difference between the open road and a test track)
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As hard as I try I cant remember a time where everytime it rained cars went sliding off the road out of control.
A bit like we dont see the motorway hard shoulders littered with dead common rail diesels, but one breaks occaisionally.
It only takes a diesel spill on a bend or roundabout or a shower after a long dry spell to make the road slippery. Not all drivers are sensitive to these things. You could say you are not going to wear a seat belt because you are not going to crash.
Edited by Old Navy on 30/04/2009 at 21:57
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Not all drivers are sensitive to these things.
And there by is the real problem.... Cars today are so sealed, that the outside world can hardly permeate into the vehicle, dulling the senses that we all need to drive safely.
when conditions dictate, I often lower my window a small amount, so I can attempt to use my senses (smell, sounds etc) to make a more informed decision on road conditions.
can I smell diesel? can I see the rainbow patterns on the road that oil/diesel creates?
I know that on corners there is a strong likelihood of a diesel spill, with rain makes more dangerous so I adjust my driving to suit.
In cold weather I listen to road noise, on black ice the car travels almost silently.
Im not so stupid as to believe by doing these things I wont lose control, but I do believe they give me a warning so I can prepare for the worst.
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It looks like us sensitive drivers are in a minority of two. Must be everyone else who needs ESP. :)
Edited by Old Navy on 30/04/2009 at 22:48
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