The cyclist has almost entirely disappeared here, in Sunderland, although we do have these green boxes that you describe.
These boxes have appeared, largely, on roads that any cyclist who valued his life would avoid, since these roads carry heavy traffic with a lot of HGVs and the vehicles using the roads have scant regard for speed limits.
As someone who, in the past was a keen urban cyclist, I never saw a need for such a facility, I would make my way to the front of the queue at traffic lights, then accelerate away from the nearside, almost invariably getting away ahead of the 4 wheeled traffic, since bicycles can do 0-10mph remarkably quickly.
The only cyclists I see these days in Sunderland, on urban roads, are at night, no lights and wobbling all over the place. Death wish or what?
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I was in one of these this afternoon (on my bike). The SUV immediately behind me decided it wanted to turn left just after the lights (I was going straight on). I was able to slap my hand on its bonnet to make it aware of my presence, it came that close!
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I have something on my bicycle that I don't think I have ever seen anywhere else...a rear view mirror. Mainly 'cos I like to see what's behind and age means my head won't turn that far. I have seen over the years that riders never seem to look behind when passing a parked car or even moving across the road to turn right. It appears they are content to let the motorist keep them alive. I think a mirror should be compulsary, after all you wouldn't use a car without one. ( actually, it would be useful if some pedestrians had them as well ! )
Ted
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I have something on my bicycle that I don't think I have ever seen anywhere else...a rear view mirror.
Check my bicycle out; I have 2 (after buying a left-hand one by mistake on Ebay).
Agreed, most of my interaction with traffic (even other bicycles) is being overtaken so I like to keep an eye on things.
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This is another issue where proper training when young could help matters. Most of us who are motorcyclists, especially the younger ones, check over their shoulders before a manoeuvre instinctively, as we were taught to in order to pass the test.
If such practice is instilled into cyclists as children, it tends to stick.
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Agreed Ted, returning to cycling after many years car driving the thing I missed most was the rear view mirror. I fitted a "Zefal Dooback" bar end mirror and find it excellent with the usual proviso of always backing it up by glancing over the shoulder before pulling out etc. It's just nice to know whats happening all round you.
Steve.
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We have one of these cyclist boxes near us - painted red rather than green.
As a cyclist as well as a driver, I see them as a good idea in theory, but cycle lanes and other cycle-friendly stuff is applied in a rather bitty, hit and miss way.
For instance, we have a nice combined cycle lane / footpath with a segregating strip beside the road but if you cycle on it pedestrians walk on the cyclists bit and so most cyclists ride on the road instead of the cycle lane.
My bike had a rear-view mirror - someone broke it so I fitted another which also got broken so I gave up! But most of my riding is done on rural lanes or on an excellent Sustrans traffic-free cycleway along a didused railway so the mirror would be of less uses anyway.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 28/01/2009 at 11:27
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We have quite a good network of cycle lanes around here. People park in them though which sort of lashes it all up. Some do have the grace to put their hazards on while doing so in what I imagine is a gesture of mild contrition.....
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Ted its so all the trendy unicorn types (you know what I am talking about I am sure) can stop at lights giving room to have cotton bags with wheels on attached to them with their 1 year old baby. This then enables them to bang on how they are saving the planet not giving a toss that their baby has a very very real risk of dying in an accident.
In fact those boxes are so common round here I find it unusual not to see a cycle box,. I think they can also give drivers a little bit of an extra buffer in cases of a sudden light change. With these boxes there is no excuse at all to stop over the lights.
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I think they can also give drivers a little bitof an extra buffer in cases of a sudden light change. With these boxes there is no excuse at all to stop over the lights.
Not as daft as it sounds. Silly I know but drivers (all classes) who think that the front wheels should be just over the white line instead of just behind it irritate me.
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I know exactly who you mean, Rattle. I mentioned in another topic the use of these trailers. I just can't understand, like you, why these things havn't been outlawed.
Fancy putting a couple of toddlers at risk of sudden death and at the very least of poisoning their little lungs with exhaust fumes.....it makes me angry.
Ted
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I wonder if they are actually legal to use on the public road? I still feel angry that my parents used to put me in the back of my dads Mini Traveler when I was a kid without any seatbelts :p:
On a more serious note the use of them seems to be getting worse, you see them all the time on that road long road near me with the slope (I think you know where I mean, next to the school). I got stuck behind one a few weeks back as of course there is no room to over take on that road due to on comming traffic and parked cars, I was literelty doing 5mph and it was very scary.
I am not anti push bike, I have one myself (in pieces) I use for cyceling down the cycle path and down the meadows but some of the new breed of cyclists are starting to annoy me due to their lax attitude to safety.
The fumes is also a very thought, I never really thought of that. So if they survive the accidents they then have serious risks of lung cancer, the joke is those parents are probably so anti smoking and do all their weekly shopping in Unicorn so its organic yet risk their kids lives everyday. I am not sure whats worse having these people as our neighbours or a bunch of chavs.
Edit for those that live in slightly more normal areas this what we are talking about, you see a lot fo them in South Manchester
tinyurl.com/afc5qx {link to www.halfords.com shortened to restore page width back to normal}
Its nearly always women in their mid 30's, probably well educated and slightly hippyish that use them.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/01/2009 at 18:48
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There was a cyclist seriously injured in Blackpool, and the though was that a box would have been able to prevent it happening.
Here's the article in the local rumour mill
www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Cycle-cra...p
(Sorry, I don't know how to tiny urls.... most of the forums I use allow you to embed them as hyperlinks)
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Sorry I don't know how to tiny urls....
The link you submitted isn't overly long (this time) to require tinyurl'ing.
But for future reference, the sticky post at the top of the page has a tinyurl toolbar and instructions on how to use it.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=52...3
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I wonder if they are actually legal to use on the public road?
Yes, perfectly legal. They actually have a steel frame. There's a view that they're safer than high-mounted child seats as they child won't fall if the rider comes off.
The fumes is also a very thought I never really thought of that. So if they survive the accidents they then have serious risks of lung cancer the joke is those parents are probably so anti smoking and do all their weekly shopping in Unicorn so its organic yet risk their kids lives everyday. I am not sure whats worse
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The fume concentration inside a car is greater than that outside it. I remember reading a paper on it recently.
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As most kiddies on bikes seem to wear helmets nowadays, I'd rather have one fall off and break an arm than be crushed by the front bumper of a 38 tonner.
Ted
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They've certainly wasted a good few tons of coloured ashphalt down here in the smoke.
The cyclists here just don't stop for traffic lights at all,they usually have inadequate lighting,and are generally incompetent road users.
On a speed bump infested route one may have to overtake(and be passed by) the same cyclist 10/20/30 times.Statisticly this must be bad news surely.
There have been a few cases lately where HGV's turning left have injured cyclists on their nearsides.Be interesting to know how many of those injured had run a red light immediately prior to their 'accident '.
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>> There have been a few cases lately where HGV's turning left have injured cyclists on their nearsides.Be interesting to know how many of those injured had run a red light immediately prior to their 'accident '.
In fact it's been shown that the cyclists most likely to be killed in such a fashion are the ones who do stop at red lights. They stop at the light, the lorry stops at the light, light goes green, lorry drives off and turns left, killing the cyclist.
The cyclist jumping the red light would be away before the lorry started its manoeuvre.
Advance boxes at lights are designed to help overcome the danger to cyclists from precisely this type of incident.
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. They stop at thelight the lorry stops at the light light goes green lorry drives off and turns left killing the cyclist. Advance boxes at lights are designed to help overcome the danger to cyclists from precisely this type of incident.
Unfortunately this is Darwinism and before anyone starts I am not only a lorry driver but a two-wheeled road user as well albeit motorbikes.
On many HGV's these days there are warning stickers on the nearside of the trailer reminding cyclists of the perils of being on the inside of the vehicle at a junction. Despite the average artic these days having more mirrors than a 60's Lambretta, there are still potential blind spots and if a cyclist is stupid enough to enter that danger zone then it's an accident waiting to happen.
The headline of course is always "cyclist killed by trucker" not "cyclist did something stupid and got killed " and that I'm afraid is what irks me most.
If you've watched a 44-foot artic make a left turn from traffic lights you'll appreciate that the driver's eyes can only be on that nearside part of the time whilst he completes the manoevre; there are so many other hazards he has to look out for.
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>>On many HGV's these days there are warning stickers on the
>>nearside of the trailer reminding cyclists of the perils of being
>>on the inside of the vehicle at a junction.
In most cases where death has occurred the cyclist was waiting at the junction first. The HGV has pulled up alongside the cyclist or has been one or two vehicles behind.
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In most cases where death has occurred the cyclist was waiting at the junction first. The HGV has pulled up alongside the cyclist or has been one or two vehicles behind.
Do you have a link to a website showing this? If it's true, it's disturbing; however please forgive me for being cynical but I'd suggest that such an accident would be much more likely to happen if the cyclist pulled up alongside the HGV.
It would be especially bad if the HGV was actually behind the cyclist because that would imply that the driver saw him and deliberately cut across him; whilst I am fully aware that some HGV drivers are far from perfect I really do not think that they are homicidal maniacs either.
Personally I never pre-judge which direction a cyclist may choose to go at a junction since very few of them bother to indicate their intention, although the urban variety seem to think that other road users are able to read their minds.
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Unfortunately this is Darwinism and before anyone starts I am not only a lorry driver but a two-wheeled road user as well albeit motorbikes.
The headline of course is always "cyclist killed by trucker" not "cyclist did something stupid and got killed " and that I'm afraid is what irks me most. If you've watched a 44-foot artic make a left turn from traffic lights you'll appreciate that the driver's eyes can only be on that nearside part of the time whilst he completes the manoevre; there are so many other hazards he has to look out for.
Spot on Harleyman...as a motorist and a cyclist it never ceases to amaze me the "cyclists" who feel that they have special dispensation to ignore red lights. If you hit one it would be your fault, of course...
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Why are they any more likely to be crushed in a trailer than on the back of the bike? On a bike seat there's just plastic around them.
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You can cylcle out of trouble fairly easy but with one of them things at the back it makes it a lot harder. They are sat far too down and that makes them high dangerious from what I can see.
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I think whether you're high up or low down getting hit by a vehicle is going to do some damage. Why would being lower be more dangerous?
I don't have a kiddie trailer I use a high-up seat, but I have got a trailer for shopping if I'm doing a small shop and don't need to use the car.
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In answer to your question, because they are virtually at road level. Actually, I don't like them on the backs of bikes either but at least they're more likely to be seen. I presume you use one of these devices by your enthusiasm for them, if you had ever crawled under a double decker bus with a shovel and a body sheet to remove a toddler then you might think twice.
Ted
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Rattle......Unicorn ?
Ted
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I was lead to believe that you could get 3 points on your licence if you stopped in an Advanced Stop Box when the lights went red.
Does anyone know if this is true?
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I admit that I haven't checked, but I would think that it comes under the same criteria as failing to stop behind the line. If the police were to actually enforce this with any zeal, there'd be a lot more drivers with points!
Edited by Pugugly on 29/01/2009 at 23:12
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You can usually tell which way cyclists are going to go from their general demeanour. The meandering minority are also easy to spot if alarming.
There are lots of those boxes in my part of town. Can't remember ever seeing a cyclist in one though. Or only for a moment because many cyclists ignore red lights. And the ones that don't, if competent. don't need the boxes either. Perhaps they are for some near-future time when London will be like Peking, as it was then called, thirty years ago.
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And don't mention pavement riders.....Oh all right then, let's..... Another anti-social lot.
Worse IMO in residential areas. Some years ago a Postman, returning empty from his round used to come past my house at about 20mph. After a few days of this I rang the local sorting office to complain as I envisaged the scenario where a pensioner or a lass pushing a pram was going to step out of a driveway without hearing the danger bearing down. He kept doing it though, until I had a go at him. Seemed he was trying to get back to the office as quickly as possible and was avoiding the speed humps. I nearly stepped from my car into the path of one coming up behind me last week. I think I might have sworn a little at him. But then again, I was walking up my road a few weeks ago, passing a car parked half on the pavement when the drivers door was opened and I walked into it.....dangerous place, our pavement.
Ted
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And don't mention pavement riders.....Oh all right then let's..... Another anti-social lot.
There are situations (though very few) where as Mehari implies going through a red is safer than getting caught in the green grand prix. Cycling on the pavement is, for this daily London commuter, an absolute no no
I mutter audibly about being old enough to ride on the road!!
Edited by Bromptonaut on 29/01/2009 at 23:59
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I am pretty sure you have to actually over the main line? The police might be able to do you for careless driving but if the cops did me for it I would flipping well take it to court. Sometimes it is just not possible to stop in time although I am sure I have only ever done it twice, the second time is when I got court out, thought I could (it was on green) I was moving in a line of traffic while it was on red, changed to green thought I could go, suddenly changed to amber I stopped as a result I slightly in the cycle box.
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"Sometimes it is just not possible to stop in time..."
Why not?
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I was lead to believe that you could get 3 points on your licence if you stopped in an Advanced Stop Box when the lights went red.
Not true, Highway Code rule 178 -
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
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