2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - andyc8nightmare
Hi, I'm new to these forums so please be gentle.
So to the problem:
I own a C8 4.5 yrs old with 60k miles on the clock
The car stopped on the motorway, engine just cut out and screen reported "Anti-Pollution Fault" and "Engine Immolibiser Fault".
Car recovered to Citroen garage who then diagnosed a fuel injector problem and quoted £600 to do the work - Fine so far.
Garage then reported that they could not get the injector out of the engine and needed a specialist company to do this, a further £300. - Not really fine, but work needed doing.
Garage then reported damaged cylinder head - £4500 cost !!!! - Not Fine !!!!

In speaking to the garage and then another Citroen service centre to verify these costs I have discovered:

a. On this model of engine it is impossible to remove the fuel injectors without damaging the cylinder head.

b. This is true even if you remove the engine from the car.

c. These engines are found on a range of Citroen models.


I believe this is an engine design fault which the owner should not have to bear the cost or responsibility for.
The repairs exceed the value of the car, we are faced with writing off the car or spending more money on it than its worth.

OK - So now the questions:

1. Has any one else had or found this problem ?

2. If so has Citroen paid for these repairs ?

3. Does anyone know of any legislation which could be applicable in this situation ?

I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer can sell me a car (brand new) for £15k which is effectively scrap after just 4 years because it develops a minor engine problem (injector fault).

PLEASE HELP US - WE CAN'T AFFORD THIS PROBLEM

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/01/2009 at 18:58

Help Please - Citroen C8 Injector Problems - adverse camber

>>In speaking to the garage and then another Citroen service centre to verify these costs I have discovered:
>>
>>a. On this model of engine it is impossible to remove the fuel injectors without damaging the cylinder head.

I find this very difficult to believe. The same engines are used across the Citroen and Peugeot range.

However - you dont say what engine you're talking about.

Try www.eurovan2.com/forum/ for a forum full of C8/807/Phedra/Ulysses owners
Help Please - Citroen C8 Injector Problems - Dynamic Dave
However - you dont say what engine you're talking about.


Guessing its a HDi of some description, and the year being 2004? Both year and engine details are a requirement for Technical matters. Also guessing this got moved across from Discussion?

DD. Br Moderator.
Help Please - Citroen C8 Injector Problems - adverse camber
>>Guessing its a HDi of some description, and the year being 2004?

I'd guess the same, but I think I've heard of petrol owners getting pollution messages as well (02 sensor issues)

>>Also guessing this got moved across from Discussion?

yep

Edited by adverse camber on 14/01/2009 at 18:36

Help Please - Citroen C8 Injector Problems - andyc8nightmare
Guessing its a HDi of some description and the year being 2004? Both year and
engine details are a requirement for Technical matters.


Yes it's a 2lt HDi 2004
Also guessing this got moved across from Discussion?


I don't know if the post has been moved over.
I am actually looking for legal advice as the technical problem is what it is

Help Please - Citroen C8 Injector Problems - andyc8nightmare
The engine is a 2l HDi.

The person I spoke to in the Citroen service centre was completely unsurpised by the problem and immediately related three other examples to me (on various models) of the same problem.
2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - denboy
Hi I can only say you are one of the unlucky people to come across this problem,as this is very common Citroen will not help in any way
I have just gone through this problem and the only way out is to find a second hand engine that is fitted with fuel injectors that have been reconditioned and is in good condition
This may take some finding But i got one for 1500 pound with a 20000 mile warranty.
Overall the cost to repair has cost me 3000 pounds.
And the Citroen C8 I have is not worth that.

Best of luck Denboy




2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - mufti saheb
hi,
ive just rebuilt my c8 2.0 hdi 16v engine. the injectors were ceased in the cylinder head so i drilled the top head of injectors all the way down to the clamp so the clamp can be removed. after this i removed the camcarrier/inletmanifold, this enabled me to gain access to headbolts. after i removed the head i went straight down to halesowen engines and had the remainder part of the injectors machined out which cost £30 each.the head was fine just had to replace 1 bent valve. now i put the engine back in but have some other problem which i hope someone can help me on.i am very pleased with my rebuild. i hope this helps you. i had to buy injectors from france for £550 including postage.

mega mega snip quote!!!!!!!!

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 11/04/2009 at 21:43

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - wardsmith
Hi Just read your message and just could not believe what I was reading. It is what has just happened to me almost work for word. I own a 2004 C8 HDi Exclusive; I took it in to Citroen with a starting problem. They diagnosed a faulty high pressure fuel pump and replaced it at a cost of £1100, plus advised a cam belt change at the same time costing a further £150. Brought the car home and within 10 miles the engine management light came on and the car went in to limp home mode. Turned around and took the car straight back. Next day they diagnosed a faulty injector and quoted £500 to repair. We authorised the repair and cursed the day we bought the car but these things happen and £2000 to get it back on the road was just unlucky but these things happen. Then next day we get a call from the garage saying they can?t remove the Injector because it is seized in the head. They said the only solution it to remove the engine, remove the head and take it to a specialist to have the injector removed. All this is going to cost me £3500. I had the car valued and its trade value is £3500. I am now left with 2 very difficult choices, write the car off and sell it for scrap, or pay another £3500 to get the car repaired with no guarantee that this is the end of it.

As you said, how can this happen to a modern car that only 4 years earlier had cost £22000!

If this is genuinely a common problem we should group together and take Citroen to court to claim the cost back, at the very least we should all contact watchdog and the motoring magazines. This is an utter rip of Citroen customers. No hardworking family can afford to lose this amount of money, and lets face it most of the customers will be families who bought in to the fancy Citroen sales patter.

If we publicise this then at least we may help any unsuspecting future families from making the same mistake

If you did find a cost effective solution to this please let me know. I am about to sell my car to a scrap dealer for £500 and will never touch Citroen or Peugeot again.
2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - ffiill
mmm-I bought a new Berlingo HDi in 2004 expecting to get perhaps 160,000 out of it.
At 70,000 Citroen diagnosed faulty pump-£1200(despite fact that high pressure feed to common rail was spewing out diesel-issue with vibration-how could they get a proper read out on pump?)
At 110000 mls diagnosed number 3 injector-£350. 400 mls later fault again arose and cleared by local garage.Yet again this week-again showing number 3 injector.
My local garage suspects wiring or management computer.
In total I have spent £3000 in total because of fuel system plus £2500 premium fo HDi engine-so much for its performance and fuel economy!
Take my advise-get rid and dont go there again!
Phil
2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - freckle
This is a hugely common problem-I have had the same problem when my car failed to start 20 weeks ago and in order to find out what was wrong they had to have the injectors removed by a specialist engineer. All four were seized, thus all four were damaged on removal and needed replacing at a cost of £1200. Subsequently damage to the cam mechanism was discovered but that is another story and plenty of other threads!
I am having my first appoinment with my solicitor tomorrow to began legal proceedings against Citroen as I am being asked to pay over £3500 for problems arising from 2 design faults (they have already made a goodwill gesture of £2K plus the dealership £500 but this is not acceptable)

Try these links for interest:

uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2008072510...4


www.citroen-owners-club.co.uk/citroen/index.php?sh...0

The injectors are stainless stell in what I believe is an aluminium alloy slider.

www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm
2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - bygumlad
Just finished removing seized injectors from a 2.0 hdi 16v citroen C8 cylinder head and boy were they stuck in, if you are in the preston lancs area and want them removing give me a shout, I have a brutal way of getting 'em out but it works. The actual injectors are about 1mm smaller in diameter than the hole they fit into but corrosion seems to bridge the gap and holds them fast in.
2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - bygumlad
I might add that the injectors are completly ruined when they come out and not one can be recovered. New sets appear to range from 500 to 1200 quid
2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - davecuk
I find the prices for these parts unbelievable, I find the cost of repairs staggering, especially on cars which have so little intrinsic value after 4 years. The dealers must really laugh at the customers who have repair bills higher than the value of the vehicle they are driving. I bet there are piles of brightly coloured socks outside the workshop door!

I nearly bought a new Citroen C5 Diesel a few months ago. I say nearly, because I was on the forecourt and remembered the ad about how French cars are not like they used to be and you should give them a try again....or something like that.

Then it all came flooding back, memories decades old of horrible Citroens, expensive Hydromatic/Hydrolastic problems, crappy electrics, poor engines, unreliable and poor build quality. Did I really believe the French had completely changed?....let me tell you, I was outta there like a shot.........It looks like I made the right decision.

Edited by davecuk on 14/08/2009 at 22:42

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - frenchcarmick

hi bygumlad

be interested to know how you got the injectors out. I have 53 c8 2.2 which i had to drill the injectors out to remove the head. I have had the weight of the engine swinging on them with an adapted slide hammer in between, heat, freeze, even acid to burn out corrosion. Ended up sheering the heads off to remove head. From what i have been reading there are a lot of people with the same problem.

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - AP Autodiagnostics

I have now removed hundreds of these injectors using a hydraulic puller and upto 20 tons of force, you just cannot tell if they are comming out or not until they do or don't move.

i've found that chemicals, freeze sprays, coke, easing oil etc makes no difference as when the injectors do come out after being soaked for several days they come out bone dry IE nothing makes it down the side of the injector!!

wether a puller works or not is mainly down to luck if it works you are lucky if it don't you're not, obviously the better the puller the better your chances are and if your'e one of the lucky ones and they all come out then well done.....

i can only recomend finding someone like me with a hydraulic puller that can help you out of a big problem with these cars.

AP Autodiagnostics

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - JayF Engineering Services

I just removed one leaking injector from my 2.2 C8 .......the copper washer was not sealing allowing exhaust fumes into the car and also allowing the crud of black death to grow all over the top of the injector. I own my own engineering business and am fairly good on the spanners so I started . A while ago I scrapped one of these that the guy could not afford to fix after another garage had mutilated 2 injectors on so had the opportunity to have a look at one that was already stripped back a bit.

If you chip all the black crust off as well as possible and can find the clamp nuts and remove them with plenty of light so you can see what your up to youll notice that the clamp studs have got a torx drive on the top of them,I managed to use these studs as a puller to draw the injector out about an inch by winding them a fraction at a time alternately. Once the injector is out as far as it will pull with the stud ( the studs by the way are shouldered and this is what pushes the back of the clamp to drive theinjector out) flood around the injector with light oil then start the studs back into their threads if you wound them all the way out VERY CAREFULLY! WE DONT WANT TO b***** THESE THREADS UP AT ANY POINT! .......wind them down using the torx drive and then start to draw the injector back down into its hole very carefully with the clamp nuts a small amount on each side so your pulling down evenly.

Doing this will introduce oil into the cavity of snot and crust that is binding the injector. I did mine up and down four times before I could get an adjustable spanner around the body to start working it in a twisting motion to pull it free.

The biggest factor in this is to be extremely patient and be prepared to have back ache and get covered in s"""t. I have seen many of these get scrapped because garages break parts that involve the engine having to come out. If you mutilate the anchor studs you have wrecked it,but if you are confident and have time..... even if you do break it your not going to have to pay a garage for the privelege of letting an impatient mechanic break it for you.

It took me five hours to turf mine out....it was as siezed as any other I have seen,about 45 minutes to put it back including the blower ducting and new cabin filter,the washer was nothing because I have got a box of them and the injector was not damaged at all ,so it can be done it comes down to time and patience.

Also,the last snapped cam belt I saw on an 807 was caused by the auxilliary belt breaking.......ironic how a car well within its cam belt service intervall can be serviced the month before and then die of engine failure because the auxilliary belt was not replaced on the service.

Good luck J

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - Peter.N.

Does this problem only apply to the 16 valve 2.0 ltr, not the 8 valve?

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - JayF Engineering Services

Was there an 8v diesel c8 or 807??????????????????????

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - JayF Engineering Services

Ultimately the problem with the 2.0 and 2.2 hdi units when fitted into the C8 or the 807 is the issue of not being able to actually work in the space they decided to shoehorn the engine into!!! I'd like to know why they had to make it lean backwards like it does?

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - JayF Engineering Services

If anyone needs a couple of good injectors for a 2.0 hdi I have got a pair!!! obscenemofo@fsmail.net

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - JayF Engineering Services

Today at my workshop I succeeded in machining out the injector tip from one of these heads...........if you have got your head off now but have unscrewed the top part of the injector off the bottom and now have a siezed piece of extremely hard steel corroded in the bottom of a deep hole...... call me! obscenemofo@fsmail.net

2004 2.0 HDi - Injector Problems - madf

And people wonder why I am rude about French car manufacturers!

 

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