assured me if I bought one it would be ok for me.
Gives you carte blanche to return the car if it's not OK for you.
Ask them to put that in writing, just to be sure. The salesman's reaction would be interesting to watch.
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A different perspective from my viewpoint
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most customers have done their homework before i see them
they know the insurance costs ]
they know something about the car
they know the car they have come to see me about will fit their wallet
they dont need a test drive they have been in a similar model
customers that need to know co readings
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are not buyers today, but lookers
will probably not buy of me anyway because i am £50 dearer
will usually come with family that have nothing to do with the equation
can possibly not afford the car they are viewing but want a drive anyway
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my demonstraters are my stock, i only do test drives when i am 100% sure the customer will buy,if i dont see that commitment then i let them sit in the car with their shorts on but the ignition key is firmly in my pocket, i do allow them to push the buttons though
no way this is a slarg at you roly its just what happens on my bomb pitch ;-(
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sorry should read, not directed at you Andy Bairsto or anyone else :-)
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Go somewhere else. There's usually somewhere else locally that is interested in doing a deal.
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most customers have done their homework before i see them they know the insurance costs they know something about the car they know the car they have come to see me about will fit their wallet they dont need a test drive they have been in a similar model my demonstraters are my stock i only do test drives when i am 100% sure the customer will buy if i dont see that commitment then i let them sit in the car with their shorts on but the ignition key is firmly in my pocket i do allow them to push the buttons
So... in short... you're not really a car salesman, you are a checkout guy doing any work only if customer that already knows what he wants, how he wants it and for how much he wants it for some strange reason comes around to you, rather than just buy online or over the phone where they also won't let him have a drive, won't give him any extra information and will keep hands deep in their pockets.
It's a miracle you "salesmen" have bread to share among your families on daily basis... ;)
This reminds me of the Kia dealership in Medway where I had my Cee'd 3 day test drive. I booked it online, came in, the dealership was empty, sales guy handed over the keys talking for 10 minutes about how I won't get my deposit back if I scratch the car, stain the interior or return it without tank full. "Leaflet is in glove box" he said and walked away. Three days later, I filled online questionaire with Kia head office and drove back to the dealership to drop the car off. Sales manager (different guy this time) checked the car for scratches, took the keys, organized refund with reception and returned to his desk to read the paper. I stood there for 2 minutes looking around for hidden cameras but that was it. Not a single word. Not a single question. No attempt to sell it me in any shape or form. Not a single leaflet, spec sheet or special offer put in my hand. Not even a free coffee or good bye wave.
Not a phone call.
Not a letter in over a month.
The car was right in my alley.
But I'm not going to beg...
And sure as hell don't want to deal with bunch of ignorants throughout 7 year warranty period.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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I'm surprised at the Kia dealers. My worst experiences have been at VW and Audi dealers, but then my work wear is not a suit but trousers and shirt/jumper.
Honda salesmen used to be good, if they were middle aged white men, but now they are younger and not Wasps, they are not.
Hyundai were mixed when we bought the Trajet. One dealer couldn't be bothered (and subequently went bump) and the other couldn't be more helpful. Subaru are always polite and helpful.
Even Lexus were fine with me.
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Often wondered what would happen if I went into Car sales with a helpful attitude and some knowledge of the product what I would end up like after 5 years of sales targets, forced to sell cars clearly unsuitable for the buyer cos the boss wants it shifted or cars with a parceload of unforeseen faults waiting to cause the buyer to come storming back in mad rage....add to that occasional wiseguys trying to part-ex tarted up lemons etc..Would I end up disillusioned and doing the crossword? Meanwhile my older longer serving colleagues get to sell brand new top of the range stuff...Anyone good at this sort of thing may have moved on to estate agency where the margins are bigger....
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Often wondered what would happen if I went into Car sales with a helpful attitude and some knowledge of the product what I would end up like after 5 years
After 3 months you'd be in a different job, never mind 5 years. Its about SELLING, not explaining how VVT or DSG works. No offence intended, but the regular threads that come up on grumbling about car buying and slaesmen only serve to illustrate how little the average punter knows about the motor business....
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As I have said on various other threads, the way cars are sold is an absolute disgrace. They employ vacuous dayglo-tanned money-obsessed buffoons to sell whatever is "targetted" (never used to be a verb eh?) and not what the customer wants or needs.
Manufacturers and indeed the franchises do themselves no favours at all by rewarding these halfwits with handsome commission and ridiculously over the top incentives, so they think they are the dog's crackers even mroe than they did before. Most of them haven't got the customer skills to work on a checkout in Asda let alone be allowed to sell valuable lumps of machinery. Sack them all and start again. There has to be a better way.
I am glad I lease my car, as it means I don't (as I have doubtless said before) have to deal with a supercillious little numpty in a mid-market suit and shiny shoes. If I had to buy cars from a dealer, I would get someone else to do it. Seriously.
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Aprilia
None taken, my point was that car selling can be a high pressure job that needs a certain person to do it, otherwise the job will get on top of them. Hence why I said "I" and not "anyone". My mate is a salesman (not cars) and he get s very frustrated sometimes and othertimes elated ..but you have to agree there are some guys selling in the motor trade that are clearly disillusioned/unmotivated.
If I can't my point across clearly, just proves I can't sell cars either!
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Well after I post this, I am going to phone my Seat dealer and pay my deposit for my new Altea XL. (3000 miles ex -demonstrator).
Salesman has been with the family firm for 20 years and is probably aged in his 50s. He was happy for me to have a test drive with him in car. The next day he phoned and said since he was at work till 7.30 pm that evening, I could come and take the car away (demonstrator) for a few hours and have a drive in it myself.
Every question I asked him he was able to answer ( he has had 2xAltea XLs as company cars and knew them well). He has carried bikes which was one of my questions. Anything he didn't know he found out and phoned me back.
Another dealer was able to pre-reg me a new 07 plate for the same money but sorry, after all the service this guy gave me, he is getting my business. That is the type of place I want to be loyal to and when I need it serviced or warranty work done, I feel that they will be loyal back.
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A friend who is in sales with a large multiple told me yesterday that she got "fined" £20 for giving a customer a set of mats with their new car. Customer bought a £17k car and was sent on the road with 10 litres of fuel in it and no mats so she gave him free mats as part of the deal!
Her sales manager told her that she was in the business to sell not giveaway things for nothing!
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Bobby G, that's my kind of garage. The one that reckonises the value of giving us punters service, and is rewarded with repeat business. Just like the small Citroen dealer I have bought from in the past. I know for a fact that the manager has been there for at least 12 years, no doubt as a result of giving just this type of service.
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Another dealer was able to pre-reg me a new 07 plate for the same money but sorry after all the service this guy gave me he is getting my business. That is the type of place I want to be loyal to and when I need it serviced or warranty work done I feel that they will be loyal back.
Trouble is, a lot of people would buy from the other dealer, or go find it £200 cheaper online or something.
So good service is frequently not appreciated. Hence why we often don't get it.
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Its about SELLING not explaining how VVT or DSG works. No offence intended but the regular threads that come up on grumbling about car buying and slaesmen only serve to illustrate how little the average punter knows about the motor business....
I guess those of us, who ever had a chance to provide or witness proper customer service at some point in life have certain expectations and bias. My life experience tought me that car salesmen are there to serve me. I intend to part with money. In my eyes, the whole purpose of their job is purely to create a situation in which I will be willing to pay part of their wage. And I'm not going to pay for being treated to cocky, image prejudiced suit that will "let me sit in a car and turn knobs" and spend more time insisting on me watching burning carwax advert for glorified wash'n'go shampoo pack at £400 than on test drive.
I don't care about their targets, problems with management, reality of their job and corporate policy to flog scoundrel finance deals and unneccessary extras. I don't believe in "most of us can tell real customer 30 seconds after they walk through the door" wisdom and I refuse to accept "you don't look like our target audience" excuses.
I remember you once said, in regard to your occassional Merc sale, that you can't stand "messers". It is just like it - just the other way round.
I come to spend money, and someone is simply messing about. We, the average punters, know little about motor business, because there is no need for us to know - for the purpose of us spending money car salesmenship require no more professional abilities than that of a waiter in catering business.
If you walked into restaurant, sat down and noone approached you to take your order for ages and then started talking about percents of service charges on the bill instead of describing in detail their specials of the day. Would you stand it? If the waiter had no idea what's in the dish or if they offered you to sniff the starter and play with peas on the platter, but not let you eat it before you tip them, you would simply walk away. Right?
Most car salesmen, in UK, lost their sense of purpose and context. I live in East Kent. I bought my last car from dealership in Coventry. Car before that was brought from Worthington. I have no problem travelling far for my cars. As long as I'm treated seriously. But I won't stand messers and I won't pay to be intimidated, ignored or measured to fit some made up cryteria from Dellboy's school of economics pamflet. Judging by the number of impertinent dealerships local to me closing every year, others started doing the same.
It's not what we, punters, don't know about motor business. It's what motor business no longer knows about us...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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It's worth considering perhaps (and I say this while agreeing with most of the pro & contra arguments above) that the salesperson is only 'risking' a commission selling a car, the punter often, many thousands. This disparity of risk/reward does skew expectations - is the 10%
chance (perhaps their summation of you buying their car) worth them putting-it-big & really trying? Whereas, if many punters are like me, I'm there to be sold a car - come on sell it, deal, tempt me., 'seduce' me!
But, hey, I'll want to know all the details, its exact history, options, warranty conditions - no, no not the finance yet, please - if they don't or can't or have perhaps marked me down as a tyre kicker - well, it's their loss.
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I took my daughter to pick up her new drop-head coupe in my battered, rusty, '96 Panda (I was lending her half the purchase cost I'd negotiated - she'd been prepared to pay what they asked). I'd been doing some decorating, so by the time she'd dragged herself out of her pit - get the picture?
Snotty, be-suited, (apparent) pre-pubescent salesman said 'you can't park there' .
Oh what fun I had!
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v0n, you've hit the nail on the head. Good post.
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cocky image prejudiced suit that will "let me sit in a car and turn knobs" and spend more time insisting on me watching burning carwax advert for glorified wash'n'go shampoo pack at £400
Surely you can't mean bb VoN? I don't think he's like that really...
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Sorry, v0n I mean
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"If the waiter had no idea what's in the dish"
Recently, a waitress said 'soup of the day is barley brothel'
We subsequently realised she meant broth.
I tried to order boeuf bourgenogne (orwhatever the spelling is)
She replied 'beef burger'?
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Surely you can't mean bb VoN? I don't think he's like that really...
No, of course I didn't mean "bb". It's more of rough aim at your typical Kent dealership rep - twenty something underpaid beer belching champion with 2 weeks work experience at woolworths under his belt, Jorje Armeni suit from backstreet market stand, snap on tie and Tony&Guy haircut as the biggest expense to his name. Argos 3.5 carat signet jewellery on his pinky, picture of a random onion pony tailed "me Julie" in track suit on his desk. You know the type.
Bell boy was spot on with "turning knobs" bit though. I laughed so hard. My other sales favourite is "could you put down deposit over the phone now" when you schedule first visit. For what? For a car I haven't even seen yet? Sure. I'm pushing £20 note through the hole at the back of my phone, can you see it coming out at your end?
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Aren't many dealership jobs taken by the new intelligentsia - those lucky few with degrees in Golf Course Maintenance or Sports Science or Tourism or Marketing?
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Don't forget 'Media Studies'.
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Aren't many dealership jobs taken by the new intelligentsia - those lucky few with degrees in Golf Course Maintenance or Sports Science or Tourism or Marketing?
No.
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I'm a salesman by trade. What I sell is irrelevant, but what I do is important.
If someone phones me about our products, I don't care if they are ready to buy; I spend some time, show them our products and take them seriously. I could fob them off, but I think it's part of what I'm paid for. Funnily enough, when these people are ready to buy, they often come back to buy from me.
When I've sold something, I make a point of visiting the customer a few days later just to say "thanks". I check they are still happy with the purchase. After a couple of months, I go along and make sure they are still content. Any little niggles, I get fixed (the customer pays for this fixing, but I make it happen). They get a call from me on a regular basis to keep them informed on what's changing in the market and to make sure they are still happy.
You might be thinking I do this for cynical reasons. That would not be fair, as I genuinely care about the people I sell to.
The end result, though, is that they just keep buying things from me, because I look after them. Odd.
Equally odd is that when my Dad bought a used car many years ago, he never once heard from the salesman. If he had, he was the sort of bloke who could have been persuaded (he was convinced it was financial good sense) to trade in after three years for another one. Instead, he ran it till the day he died. A phone call every six months, and they would have had him for life.
V
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That's what I call a professional approach to salesmanship. I bet you refer to your customers as 'customers' or 'clients', in a respectful way, not 'punters'!
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And Vin, you have been in that same job for quite a while I can tell.
Average car salesman is in a post for a year maybe 2; not many last much longer.
In that time all he is focused on is how to sell with the least effort to make the most comission he can.
The system is wrong with the dealers, where they target the guys and reward them for moving the stock they want moving, not the car the customer wants.
If you want a proper experience; as always; go to an independant and talk seriously. You will get taken seriously and dealt with like you want to.
But they will be dearer, so majority of people won't go there, or at least wont spend their money there. So the independant is probably right to sum you up the same as you are using him?
And as bell boy said earlier. When you are buying or considering buying a car (one of these positions will signal comission and 1 won't) how many of you will actually go into a dealer to look at cars for ideas as opposed to going to the dealer of the car you know you want? That's what the tv adverts are for; to get you into the dealership. once you are in that showroom and the guy smells his comission thats when the sales effort starts.
You pays your money and takes your choice.
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I dont think ive ever met an honest car salesman in the last 25 years...
Every deal I have ever done has included lies,more lies and even more damm lies
how they can live with themselves I really dont know...I class them lower than estate agents and only slightly higher than defence solicitors
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Isn't that new moderator a defence solicitor...?
Oh dear.
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I am developing a very thick skin in a very short space of time. Moderating should appear on CVs these days.
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Vin, you make some good points. I find the car buying public incredibly responsive to being treated with respect and intelligence when buying a car. It helps, I suppose, when they know they are dealing with the guy who actually owns the place rather than a salesman on commission which is also why I will not employ sales persons. Just good straight normal people talking usually works. Many people I've sold cars to are now friends who pop in for a coffee if passing. It makes the working day a pleasure.
Contary to general opinion there are a few really good high quality genuine people in the car industry. I am widely over qualified for what I do but do it because it is my passion and I love combining a hobby with a living. Add into that meeting loads of interesting usually really great people and I can't wait to get to work in the morning.
Personaly I am somewhat delighted when I see dealer after dealer, chain after chain, turning car buying into an experience similar to buying double glazing - it leaves a massive gap for others. There are some really good people out there - my advice is just to avoid anywhere with block paving, pot plants and showrooms with people all in identical cheap suits.
Fortunately many of the classic "Arfur Daley" types are now long since retired and most car dealers tow the line. Just look for the people who might in the back of their mind be hoping you come back in 3 years time rather than just pocketing their comission on the basis they'll be doing something else next year and you'll probably do OK.
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I have no idea of numbers here, so bear with me.
If a salesman makes £100 commission on a 20k car, but only £50 if he sells it to you for 19k - then what, other any sort of morality, is to stop you offering him £150 to sell it to you at 18k? Straight bribery. Is that illegal?
I assume he'd not get it past his boss easily, but it seems like a cheap way to buy a big discount. Obviously it wouldn't perhaps be so blatant as that, but you can imagine a situation where you could perhaps sway an extra £500 off for £50 straight to him.
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v0n - spot on!
vin - spot on!
I've said it before, and I repeat, spending the thick end of £20k (or more) on a new car should be a pleasurable experience, and it isn't always the case. Why?
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