Warning to anyone taking Volvo Owners Insurance - don't get your car stolen! Despite the sales pitch of 'Total peace of mind' and 'Superior service', the insurance company that Volvo use who run the scheme offer only delays, frustration and worry.
When my XC70 was stolen recently it took TEN days for them to decide they wouldn't cover the loss. TEN days of worry, no car, no replacement vehicle - their derisory offer of £100 in total for car rental was not taken up.
Forget the 'simple call to a dedicated Volvo freephone number and we'll solve the problem...'. Try 14 telephone conversations with VOIS over ten days AND numerous other calls to police, Volvo dealer (whose interest diminished noticeably when the car was found) and the car recovery company depots.
Apparently the car was 'left unlocked' and 'left unattended (out of sight)' hence we were 'not able to intervene' (not that they recommend one should!). Yes, we were careless leaving the car unlocked on the drive whilst unloading it and leaving the keys visible in the house (the police treated it as a burglary as the thief had to enter the property) but don't we insure our possessions against our own and other people's stupidity?
We were lucky the car was recovered virtually undamaged. Caveat Emptor 'Let the buyer beware' comes way above Uberrima Fides 'Perfect good faith' when dealing with Volvo Owners Insurance!
{Insurance company name removed as you are accusing them of something, which may or not be true. As we only have your word for that, I've aired on the side of caution and removed it. DD}
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Dont blame VOI or the insurance company they use. If you were equally as stupid while insured with other companies, they wouldnt pay out either.
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Sorry to be harsh, but as you say, you were careless. Why should they insure you if you don't take care reasonable care.
I insure with VOI, and don't want to pay for your carelessness when my next premium comes around!
My car is always locked, and keys are locked in the house out of sight! Suggest you do the same.
I've had good service from them over the last three years.
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I currently have a claim against Volvo Owners Insurance after one of their drivers knocked me off my bike last year. Had no end of problems with them ignoring letters and telephone calls from my solicitor.
In the end he applied to the Court to force them to respond under the proper protocols. Court date is mid November, but I haven't got my hopes up.
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Initially echoed RF's diagnosis but re reading the OP I'm not so sure. As thief obtained keys by walking into house fact that car was unlocked/unattended is surely irrelevant. On the logic employed by the insurer here you might be declined a payout if keys were (say) on kitchen table and thief sneaks in while you're in the loo.
Might be a heads up for more than the terminally stupid who leave the keys in the ignition.
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>>Yes, we were careless leaving the car unlocked on the drive whilst unloading it and leaving the keys visible in the house (the police treated it as a burglary as the thief had to enter the property) but don't we insure our possessions against our own and other people's stupidity?>>
The car was stolen not because it was unlocked but because the keys were stolen from inside the house, I suggest that if one is in ones house one cannot be expected to keep ones doors locked all the time or even to be expected to have to lock them if, for instance, one goes upstairs. Basically if one cannot leave ones keys on ones kitchen table without being accused of being negligent then what is the world coming to!!!!!
(Sorry about all the 'ones', it is just how it came out and nothing to do with Volvos.)
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Ones keys were left in sight. Ones house door was probably unlocked as well. One had not taken "reasonable care"
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From experience where we live (an area where houses on the street now around £400k mark but that's a different thread on a different forum)...
- Have left back door locked on occasion to find someone has entered and taken keys and wife's purse. Keys were for an old Polo (G reg at the time) but they tried my Passat. Neighbour had previously found someone in the house.
- Keys once left visible in kitchen overnight for a Golf GTI 1.8T years ago... no keys and no car in morning. Never found.
Based on the above, we have to keep doors locked when in. And if I empty car I tend to lock between trips. Hastle but prevents another dealing with the police (over a dozen in about 3 years for thefts from sons, gym locker, etc.) And if it's left on the drive I always take keys... even if someone is in it!
Just my 2 pence worth. This society is the problem and we have to accept and deal with it for our own sanity.
Rob
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I insured my V70 with VOI during the first year of ownership since they were the only company that would insure on the strength of a VIN number alone (I imported from the Netherlands) and still have an acceptable benefit/premium ratio.
First impressions were good, but when I subsequently had a question and telephoned VOI, having navigated the mandatory "press 1" call handling system my call went unanswered. And the next time. And the next time. Eventually, I managed to raise someone to talk to and the question was answered.
A few months later I needed to call again to add my father to the policy for the duration of a holiday. Again it took multiple attempts to get through.
Finally, renewal time came and the premium was sky high compared to the opposition (a factor of 2:1) so I decided to call to try and negotiate. Same rigmarole. Even potential continued business didn't elicit a swiftly answered telephone and I had to call back on multiple occasions before I succeeded.
When the call was answered I found "take it or leave it" so the latter I did.
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Ones keys were left in sight. Ones house door was probably unlocked as well. One had not taken "reasonable care"
It simply is not negligent to leave your car keys in your unlocked house when you are at home.
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Totally agree about not needing to lock house when in. And from an insurance point of view you're hopefully on solid ground. But in reality it can be less hastle to lock up the house when inside. You definately need to when upstairs and nobody downstairs.
Sad times we live in...
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It's starting a precedent that it is nearly always the owners fault rather than the thieving scum that steals the car in the first place! How far are things going to go? Imagine if not only do you have to keep all your keys out of sight, behind locked doors you have to have them in a safe too before your insurance company pays out!
Make chasing known car thieves across the country side with dogs instead of chasing foxes and I'm sure theft rates would plumment :-)
teabelly
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Obviously we can't know all the details, but the OP says it was on the drive whilst he was unloading it. When I go shopping I often leave the hatch or boot open whilst carrying the bags into the house - then go back for more. Obviously the key is not in the ignition - and I don't think I'm being 'careless'. If insurance companies expect us to keep car keys locked away inside the house then they should tell us so clearly in the policy document.
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Agreed 100% Aprilla.
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I'm with MoreThan, an RSA company and my policy says:-
When your car is left with no one in it, it must be left locked with the keys removed from it.
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Get a dog - my pshycho Springer has just sired another litter, going by family traditions the males will make excellent pets but even better thief haters.
Seriously have you thought about your house insurance ?
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Doesn't this thread fall under the 'naming and shaming' no no?
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I wouldn't have thought so given that nearly everyone is siding with the insurance company!
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Doesn't this thread fall under the 'naming and shaming' no no?
To be on the safe side I have removed the insurance company name that Volvo use from this thread. I would be grateful if it remains that way.
TIA. DD.
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>>I have removed the insurance company name that Volvo use from this thread
Appreciating your thought, you should however know it is only neccessary that the company can be identified, not that they need be named.
If the company can be readily identified then it still counts as naming.
So if, and I don't know, Volvo only use one insurance company, then I'm afraid you mat still have an issue with this thread.
The fact that someone has the opinion that their customer service is bad is usually ok, provided its not malicious. Stating that they didn't pay a claim is ok in much the same way.
Implying anywhere that this may have been done in bad faith would be iffy.
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No FM2R,
Thanks for your input on this. I'll leave things as they are for now. As you say, nothing malicious has been said about the insurance company - yet! DD.
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I suggest that the thread originator's user name might uphold No FM2R's concerns.
Regards.
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I suggest that the thread originator's user name might uphold No FM2R's concerns.
Not anymore it won't. Well spotted. DD.
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There are a few things I don't understand about this story.
If you are unloading and the car isn't in sight why wasn't it locked. I would lock my car (I'm taking delivery of an XC70 in the next week or so).
If the keys were visible, then they must have been easily accessible. You might as well have left the keys in the ignition.
If the keys were left somewhere, quite sometime must have elapsed while unloading. Did you unlocked the car, unload, and then forget to lock the car?
On all counts, it seems rather careless, but particularly on just leaving the cars keys visible, and probably accessible.
We need to take reasonable care to ensure we don't become a victim of crime.
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Yet another case of insurance companies trying to get out of paying a claim.
As for the bit from others about having the car "Locked" when you are not in it, by the sounds of it it would not have mattered as the thief had the keys. So what constitutes a safe place for the keys? If you had them in your pocket and you were robbed of them via a pick pocket or far worse violence, would you still be held negligent??? As far as I am concerned keys in my property are safe unless someone enters to get them - that is theft and it makes no difference if the door was unlocked or not - as long as I was on the premises.
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Having your keys stolen from your pocket is probably aggravated theft. Leaving you keys visible and easily accessible is just irresponsible.
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Having your keys stolen from your pocket is probably aggravated theft. Leaving you keys visible and easily accessible is just irresponsible.
Really? So leaving my keys on my hall or lounge table counts as irresponsible? What about my laptop, expensive TV set, DVD recorder etc (all in my lounge and visible, easily accessible to any thief who comes into the house).
I'm afraid that I take the old fashioned view that if something/anything is in my house then it should be safe. If someone comes into the house without permission and takes it then that's theft. I thought that was what I paid my insurance company to protect against (not to mention taxes to pay for policing).
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Could it be that, since the car keys were taken from the house, the reason the insurance company won't pay out is that they feel the house insurance should cover it?
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since the car keys were taken from the house
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as far as i understand the original post, the location of the keys was not the reason quoted for refusal.
it was refused because:
the car was 'left unlocked' and 'left unattended (out of sight)'
if you look up the ombudsman cases i have linked to lower down here, you will see that those two factors can be sufficient to turn down your claim. the fact that it was made easier with the keys being stolen from the house was apparently immaterial in this case, as the insurance company apparently did not make an issue of it.
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Really? So leaving my keys on my hall or lounge table counts as irresponsible? What about my laptop, expensive TV set, DVD recorder etc (all in my lounge and visible, easily accessible to any thief who comes into the house).
In these days of fishing rod through letterbox leaving keys visible in the hall is irresponsible and may cars are stolen in this way.
They can have the TV if they can carry it(large CRT) but I would never leave a laptiop visible since it is easily portable, concealable and salable.
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In these days of fishing rod through letterbox leaving keys visible in the hall is irresponsible and may cars are stolen in this way.
My hall is very long - would require one heck of a long fishing rod!
I take sensible security precautions (secutry lights, alarm system, 'security' locked doors and windows etc). But there is a limit to how far I am prepared to alter my life because of possible theft.
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>>Yet another case of insurance companies trying to get out of paying a claim.
So, let us imagine that you are an Arsenal supporter and I am a West Ham supporter. They are playing a game against each other.
I suggest a bet - if Arsenal lose you'll give me £5. You respond that in fact, if West Ham win you'll give me £10, but if I cause Arsenal to lose by bribing the referee, then the bet is off.
I bribe the refereee, Arsenal lose because West Ham were given 15 penalties.
I demand my £5. You refuse on the basis that West Ham didn't win fairly and that I had breached the terms of our bet by bribing the referee.
I instantly complain that this is typical of you trying to avoid paying out, ignoring our original deal.
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So where within "the car keys get nicked from house, car gets stolen, car ins co refuses to pay up" scenario is the analogy with bribing the ref? Perhaps not locking the car?, however the car was stolen because the keys were stolen from the house and not because it was unlocked, keeping the keys in the house is within the rules.
Regards.
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I'm sure that you managed to grasp the point. If not, don't worry about it unduly, it wasn't pointed at you anyway.
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I am genuinely intersted as to whether the insurance company can refuse the claim because the car was unlocked even though the thief had to nick the keys from within the house to steal the car, any ideas?
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I am genuinely intersted as to whether the insurance company can refuse the claim because the car was unlocked even though the thief had to nick the keys from within the house to steal the car, any ideas?
If the policy terms state that the car must be locked when unattended they can refuse the claim on those grounds alone. Any additional steps the thief has to go through are irrelevant.
I'm constantly amused that people insist insurers are "trying to get out of a claim" when they are simply applying the terms of their policy. If you don't like the level of cover you get, find another insurer whose cover more suits your needs. Chances are it will cost more because of the increased risks associated with covering unlocked cars, but you pays your money.....
As shown in the links posted by Dalglish, insurers do make mistakes, but so do drivers. Ombudsman News gives examples of good and bad practice and shouldn't be seen as representative of the industry as a whole. Most General Insurers have a high uphold rate at the Ombudsman, but the cases that do get overturned are always highlighted to prevent other insurers making the same mistake.
Fortunately for me, the industry as a whole liked perpetuating mistakes so I get lots of work trying to help fix them. Again and again and again. Sure, it gets boring, but my bank manager keeps grinning so it can't be all bad.
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When my XC70 was stolen recently it took TEN days for them to decide they wouldn't cover the loss.
I imagine that a goodly part of the ten days was for them to decide whether the car was permanently stolen or whether it was merely taken without consent and might turn up abandoned somewhere.
--
L\'escargot.
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insurance companies can get it wrong, and so can policyholders:
people who have left keys in the ignition have at times won their case when taken to the ombudsman.
see
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombuds...m
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombuds...m
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombuds...m
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It just goes to show, you're insured until you make a claim!
A friend of mine was loading boxes into his car outside his shop, and the keys were left in the ignition as he was doing this, the car was stolen by some thieving scum, but he did get paid out in full for his car, and yes the insurance company were aware of the facts.
It looks like it's a bit of a lottery.
Reggie
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Thanks to all for their contribution - sympathetic and otherwise!
About 50:50 for and against - and I might have been against until I experienced the theft.
Worth saying my complaint is as much about the poor service and the unreasonable delay (which wasn't waiting for the car to be found - that happened on day 2 of the 10) as the fact the claim has been refused - so far...
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Well, those "for" are on the whole for on the ground of moral outrage. Many of those against are from backgrounds in or connected with the insurance industry and speak from a position of knowledge, not an impassioned but misguided position of justice and fairplay.
Without seeing the insurance documents I can't say which way your claim will go, but rest assured if the docs make it clear that the car must be locked you will have a long wait for a payment.
$$
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