Vaguely motoring.
Where I live I have many good German retired friends, one of who has just opened a traditional German beer garden in downtown Manila. Last night was its grand opening and a great many litres of weissbier was consumed along with a lot of sausages and sauerkraut. In these groups I am usually the only Brit so they love to have a go at me. They're a good natured bunch, we've known each other for years and our drinking sessions usually involve re-fighting one campaign or another.
Last night it was whether Rommel or Montgomery was the better General. Seems obvious to me since Monty won, but oh no, it was the fault of the Daimler Benz management for making Panzers which got bogged down in the sand, thus losing the Africa campaign. A detailed description of the mechanicals of the many variants of Panzer then ensued, with the hindsighted recommendation that the Daimler Benz management team should have been sent to the Russian Front.
Don't mention the war. I did, but I think I got away with it....
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Ammo (sorry) for next time: you could argue that Rommel overstretched himself and his supply chain couldn't keep up. Good as the Panzers were, they're a useless heap of immobile metal without fuel.
Learnt something new though - i didn't know that Panzers were Daimler-Benz, although i did know that they had Maybach engines.
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So far as I could deduce from our heated discussions(!)and my rather basic understanding of the German language, Maybach did indeed make the engines, while bodies were sourced from MAN, Krupp AG and Daimler-Benz. Seems also, while they were fast, the Panzer armour was weak on some examples. Some of these German pals of mine's Dads drove the things in WW2 and really it's fascinating to listen to them.
Sounds like another interesting avenue to explore on one of those cold tropical nights :+D
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Indeed, Irwin lost the North African campaign mostly due to lack of go juice..and the first appearance of the SAS (not called that then, the breaking of the german military codes (I will vist bletchley park this year!) and the dirty tricks department making up false armies and battle groups.
Monty's military genius was later shown in full glory with Operation Market Garden!
Motoring - was Irwins staff car a Maybach or a Mercedes? Either was it was big and glorious! What staff car did monty have?
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"What staff car did monty have?"
Rommel's!
I think the Allied air & sea supremacy had a major role as well. The Axis forces had problems in getting any supplies across the Med.
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What staff car did monty have?
I believe its on display at Duxford. Sort of motorhome thing, but its been years since I've been up there and I can't remember the details.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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That was his command vehicle.
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Wasn't Skoda involved as well ? Another way to look at it if it wasn't for the German auto industry the n***s would have struggled to get anywhere, the bombproof (!) build quality and state of the art designs (despite years of lak of investment) almost assured them of their place in history. Even at their peak the Whermacht were highly dependant on animals for transport, far more than any of the Western allies who used them sparingly and only for very specialized applications (e.g. Camels in North Africa and mules in the Burmese campaigns)
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I think thre were a combination of factors that helped Monty. lets not detract from the fact that the man was a great tactician, but remember that while the Germans (or should that be the N***s) invested in R&D and technology and planned their campaighns properly and effectively, they were unstoppable. If any force exceeds it's limits, over stretches or starts to suffer a rate of loss that it cannot sustain, it will eventually fail.
Rommel was unparalleled in the desert until shirtages started to affect his forces - but even then - like msot other Military Commadners of his time, he not only 'made do' with his meager resources but he fought competantly, despite growing Allied superiority.
The Eastern Front is another example of where competnacy and efficiancy of the German Commanders triumphed over the sheer brute might of the once great Red Army - OK they didn't stop their advance, but they did exact huge casualties on their foes and managed to fight a very good rear guard action.
It was the shortages in raw mateirals that had a great contribution to restricting the fighting capability of the ground units - and a tank is no good if it's got no fuel - or spare parts or ammo.
Taking nothing away from Monty, he did come into his own and Operation Market Garden is an apt example.
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Taking nothing away from Monty, he did come into his own and Operation Market Garden is an apt example.
Market Garden was a complete unmitigated disaster. The only saving grace was the superb performance of British Airbone troops fighting under extreme conditions. The plan was flawed and not helped by a series of unfortunate coincidences. It is generally agreed that the whoe operation was an ego trip designed to beat the Americans rather than the Germans.
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Indeed -
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Monty had a Humber staff car. I remember the Airfix kit !
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Yes indeed, it was a Humber. SWMBO's uncle drove Monty in it; apparently he was not too keen on him either.
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Far too much credit was given to Rommel's ability to plan and win battles until it later it became known the Germans were reading the British battle plans in advance, courtesy an American observer of the plans who was sending them back to the States using US embassy code that had long since been broken by the Germans.
The US observer was supposedly keeping the US on side by letting them see how battle plans actually worked out in practice.
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Indeed that is total nonsense, sure Operation Market-Garden was a failure.
The blame put on Montgomery now, by revisionist historians, was certainly not one put on him at the time by his biggest critic, Gen Bradley. Many decisions were made by the British, US and other commanders throughout the command structure.
The plan was approved by Eisenhower as one to deal with several strategic problems that the rapid advance across Europe had caused. One was logistics, the captured inland port of Antwerp was useless as the Germans still occupied the north bank and shipping could not get in. The second was how to cross the Siegfried Line.
Driving north through The Netherlands had several advantages:
1. Isolating the German forces west of the Allied advance would have made it easier to force surrender, opening up Antwerp;
2. It was an 'unexpected' line of attack, so unexpected that the Germans put two SS Panzer Divisions there for complete rest and resupply;
3. It would have given a launching point for an attack to go around the northern part of Siegfried Line.
You should also appreciate the bravery and sacrifice of the two US airborne divisions involved, the Polish paratroopers, the British infantry that went in in the gliders, to name but a few. It was simply not a story about one bridge and the British paratroopers.
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Its worth reading three books.
1. Westwall - Charles Whiting
2. A Bridge Too Far - Cornealius Ryan (upon which the film was based)
3. The War Between the Gemerals - David Irving.
A side effect of winning at Arnhem was that British Armies would have stormed in to Germany by-passing the Siegfried Line oh, and beating Patton and his army. Monty was an egotist. Didn't mean to exclude the contribution of other Allied nations.
By the way reading Westwall a few years ago led to many happy motoring hols in the North West Germany border region, totally unspoilt areas,,,,
Another worthwile read is Max Hastings' Dach Reich. Although not linked to Arnhem directly it shows the organisational strength and mechanical superioity of the German war machines in some detail.
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