Does anyone know the rules with regard to blocking entrances? For instance, I own my driveway but not the public road that it runs from. Is there a right of access to your own driveway?
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I would think it would be classed as obstruction, if you couldn't get into or (more importantly) out of your driveway.
I once received a parking fine for obstructing access to and from a multistorey car park, even though I was parked some way down the road. The car didn't actually stop anyone getting to or from the car park.
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Sorry to keep bringing in France, but there it is a specific offence under their RTAs, on pain of an on-the-spot fine, to park in a manner that obstructs a driveway, garage entance, etc. They call it *le stationnement abusif*, literally 'improper parking'.
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i agree parking so as to block somes garage or driveway should be dealt with more seriously
really one of the biggest pains in the bum imaginable is to need to go to work and find some idiot blocking your car in
and u end up with no real legal remedy, plod wont help, no easy way to do anything, etc
would agree with harsh crackdown on people who do this
however this is totally different to parking in a street normally
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Le Parking Abuse? Sounds like those people putting the signs up in their windows...
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Ah, yes -- they order these things better in France.
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Residents parking causes me no end of trouble. I am a full time University student and becuase of where I live, there is no bus service to any location near my house. As a result, the only way I can get to University is to drive my car.
The University refuses to provide any form of parking for students, the local council are doing their best to fill whatever free parking space there was (Roads between halls of residence and lecture theatres where nobody but students live, for example) with over-priced parking metres, etc.
So, the only option is to park in residential streets nearby. I don't WANT to do this, but short of paying up to £10 a day to park my car (Something which most people working full time cannot justify let alone a student) in multi story carparks the other side of town, there is nothing else I can do. But even now, more and more and becoming residents parking only and I seem to be spending time I should be spending studying nipping out to move my car from one '2 hour max stay' parking area to another.
Used to be able to park in a simply *huge* carpark belonging to the local Courts superstore. Worked fine - didn't bother anyone (The carpark was absolutely huge - think about a carpark the size of your average out of town supermarket, but attribute it to a run-down DIY store and a furniture shop), carpark was almost always empty but in the summer a clamping firm arrived which put paid to that.
So, I dislike residents parking schemes :)
I've paid just as much road tax as anyone else who happens to have a permit, yet I can't park there. I am 'sort of' a resident - I pay over a thousand pounds a year to attend the University - but nobody gives a damn :)
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I had the same problem at University for ten years, Michael -- and I was staff. Students had even less chance.
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thousand pound a year is cheap
some unis halls of residence built recently were only granted planning permission on condition that the uni demands students sign an enforceable agreement that they will not own or run a car in the city - else they loose their accomodation
again harsh treatment of drivers
meanwhile the uni's are full of illegal immigrants (partners of students here on tourist visas but working etc), tv's unlicenced, working partners not paying council tax, etc etc etc
in fact thriving black economy with lots of illegal rackets, none of which is tackled by any authority
but hey as soon as u try and get a car, you will find big stick used immediately
madness sheer madness
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Odd priorities. Not long ago, a particularly successful Dean of Columbia University retired. He said in his address that a university's management need concern it with only three things, and it would have a problem-free existence:-
1. Sports for the almumni.
2. Car parking for the staff.
3. Sex for the students.
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I hope that you are contacting the authorities at each and every opportunity to inform on all these heinous acts. That way I can rest easily knowing that someone is out there fighting for the good guy ..... ;-)
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well when they wont turn out for racing motorbikes with no helmet or plates and drug dealing do u really think its worth the bother
the immigration system is a joke, if i reported some of the people known to me to be illegally here they would be released straight back onto streets if anything at all way done
and remember the uni's are big business, lots of foreign students are in fact subsidising the UK student population greatly, the system doesnt want to upset the little dears
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At my own university, three Computer Studies students set up denial-of-service attacks that took out the University's computer system for days. We lost accounts, payroll, academic results, course programmes, student records, catering, halls of residence records, library lending, internet, the lot.
We traced the culprits and I wanted them prosecuting for computer misuse and throwing out. They were, however, overseas students so they were told they were *very* naughty boys and allowed to stay on. I was told privately that we could not afford to sack them because of the fees we would lose. They continued wrecking the system for the three years of their course, by which time others had joined them -- and someone imagined we had saved money!
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As the vexed subject of blocking entrances has been touched on again, I have a question. Imagine three cars parked near an entrance, one on each side, one directly opposite. If any one of the three cars were to move, the entrance would be (just) accessible; with all three there, there isn't room to turn in the very narrow road. Who is to blame for obstructing the entrance, the two on the same side, the one opposite, the one who parked last, or all three?
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the one thats in the way of a citizen of the crown that wants to use that route, that is potentially any of them
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Could write for hours on the joys of on street parking, but i won't...
In answer to the '3 cars' question from Welliesorter, this kind of situation often arises near me and I would say the responsibility lies with the last car to park. If say the 2 cars either side of the entrance were already there when I arrived to park, I wouldn't occupy the space opposite because that would impede progress. If I were the one who's entrance was to be 'blocked' and looked out of the window to see 2 cars either side, and then looked out a bit later to see a neighbour's car in the position opposite, it would be to that neighbour that I went to ask to move since he was last to arrive. Not an easy one to enforce, but every time we go to park, we assess the cars already parked in order to decide where we can park. The first 2 cars make life difficult but it's the third that makes it impossible.
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Sorry alexisj, I beg to differ.
I was booked and went to Court over this very issue, as I could prove that I was not the one to cause the blockage. I was in and out in five minutes and found guilty of causing an obstruction. £60 fine and three points.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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3 points for parking??? Was that because you went to court Espada or would you have got that anyay?
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Adam
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I think I would got the points anyway, Adam. It was the Police who booked me, not a warden.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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That's a bit harsh for 5 minutes though!
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Adam
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Nope, five minutes in Court not parking! Parking was about 1/2 hour. I was the first to arrive and when I got back there were three cars, including mine, causing the blockage, but only two us had tickets even though we were not cuasing the blockage without the third car!.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I do apologise Mr Espada. Ever noticed that once you realised you've misread something, it's so obvious and you can't think how you interpreted it wrong in the first place?
I'll go now...
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Adam
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As I said (or meant anyway!), an enforcing officer may not see it my way. If we're talking side roads then technically all 3 cars in the example would be within 10 meters of the junction and so 'bookable'. I assume from your answer that you could prove that you weren't the last to arrive in a similar case but that you were found guilty of causing an obstruction in spite of this.
IMO the issue is like many of those we face when driving, where using a bit of common sense and courtesy rather than following the letter of the law at all times usually leads to the best outcome. So I would still apportion blame to the third car, even if all 3 cars are guilty in the eyes of the law. That said, I have gone out to move my car in the past having looked out of the window to see that the movements of others since I parked have made my car into an obstruction.
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On a slighlty different tack, a form of parking that I find a bit annoying is when people park right in the middle of two spaces at supermarkets etc (usually newish premium brand cars). I assume they are worried about other people opening car doors onto their cars, but when its raining and there are few spaces, I think its a bit selfish. I did see one car recently parked right in the middle of fours spaces - surely taking things to an extreme!
Brian
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I have every sympathy for these people. Why should they suffer damage to their pride and joy as a result of selfish people who don't care parking in the small parking spaces becuase the supermarket is far more concerned with parent and baby spaces?
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Granted, there does seem to be a growing trend towards having a lot of parent and baby spaces these days. I think a lot of people use them though, baby or not. I think, quite reasonably, this is less frowned upon than able-bodied people using disabled spaces, which I definitely think is out of order.
When my current car was brand new and gleaming, I used to worry about it getting scratched in car parks. Rather than use up two or more spaces though, I'd just park at the back of car parks away from other cars and walk that bit further to the supermarket.
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Today I went to the local station car park (for which I get a season ticket). Even though I arrived at 08:20 the station car park was full. The only other car park is a private car park that is always full by 7:30.
Morrisons have taken over the safeway carpark and told the previous commuters who paid £30 each (there were a 100) that they would have to find somewhere else to park.
Prior to this all local roads were yellow lined. You cannot park anywhere other than the station car park.
So I had to drive back out until I found a residential road that didn't have yellow lines.
All this just seems to have pushed the problem out further, I presume that if the situation continues then these residential road will also be yellow lined as well after they complain.
The solution in my opinion is to either build more secure car parks (and cheaper) or else remove some of the yellow lines from the non-residential roads. With rises in parking fees well above inflation the problem wont go away.
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We have similar problems parking on the street where I live. It is a small terraced street with houses on only one side (for which we are all grateful). However, the other side of the road is the back of a row of shops and hair salons etc. There has always been a problem with parking on the street but it has become progressively worse over the last year. We have three cars at our house, one is parked directly outside the house but we always make sure that we park the others on the other side of the road so they are outside no-one elses house. However, our neighbours are not so considerate. They both have two cars each and insist on parking on the same side of the road and therefore park in front of other peoples houses. While I acknowledge that there is no right to park outside your own house I think that it all boils down to respect for other people and courtesy. My mum's car is boxed in more days than it is not and she has to struggle to get it out in the morning for work. This is when we all get annoyed and our neighbours always pull a face if you ask them to move their cars, as if we are the ones inconveniencing them not the other way round. These people are really bad parkers and really bad drivers also, but we are always made to feel in the wrong.
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When my current car was brand new and gleaming, I used to worry about it getting scratched in car parks. Rather than use up two or more spaces though, I'd just park at the back of car parks away from other cars and walk that bit further to the supermarket.
This is what I do. I find a completely empty area and I park there.
9/10 I return to the car to find my car surrounded by other cars, in the empty area of the carpark.
I have absolutely no idea why this happens but it does render the park away from the shop idea pretty useless :(
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Thanks for the replies to this, especially to Espada for mentioning his test case. I do have a vested interest in the matter as I risk being blocked in or out every time I visit my mother. On one occasion I had to resort to knocking on doors to identify the owner of a car who was indisputably blocking my exit. I ended up leaving a note for the owner, stating (truthfully) that I needed to be able to drive to work the following morning. The offending vehicle was eventually moved at 4 am. I wonder if the owner was in a fit state to drive.
In my example there are complicating factors: the cars on the same side as the entrance are always parked half on the pavement (the road is too narrow for two lines of vehicles) and some of the vehicles probably are too close to the junction: the house occupies a street corner.
There's a further complication in that a pattern of what seems like inconsiderate parking has possibly emerged because neighbours have got used to the idea that my mother lives alone and is carless. They rarely see the entrance being used and assume that no-one ever needs to use it. It might be thought unreasonable for me to expect them to change their habits on the off chance that I'm going to visit. There is plenty of safe and legal parking space on the much wider road from which this one leads, but no-one parks there by choice. A much bigger issue from my mother's point of view is the practice of parking vans on the pavement all weekend, as this blocks the view from a downstairs window. Although quite large, the house has no front garden.
As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the problems seem to stem from the idea that owning a property entitles you to the bit of road immediately adjacent. The belief is unsustainable if you have more vehicle than frontage but it leads to people parking as close as possible to their own property, whatever the consequences. In my own road I see vehicles parked on (not near) corners when there's plenty of space opposite or 20 yards away. Presumably the owners think that the space outside their corner property belongs to them and the rest of the road is someone else's territory.
To be fair, there seems to be a reasonably mature attitude to parking in my street. All other things being equal, people park outside their own homes but I've never known anyone to complain when this hasn't been possible. Space has become tighter as older residents have died off and been replaced by younger people with multiple cars and the occasional work vehicle. I became a car owner less than two years ago. For most of that time I've found parking outside my own house to be a rare luxury and considered myself lucky if it's been possible to see my car from the window.
However, in recent months and for no obvious reason, I've found parking to be less of a problem. There is an outside chance that I'm starting to benefit from the territoriality: perhaps people have become used to seeing my car, they associate it with me or my house, and avoid parking in 'my' space if they can.
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Whoops... I didn't quite intend my post to appear at the end of the thread. It was meant as a reply to alexisj, Espada III, and Adski {P} above, who were responding to my question of who is responsible for creating an obstruction.
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although it is custom in some areas to park half on the pavement due to space issues, or even fully on the pavement, anyone doing this could well be caught out by a copper that takes exception to this, it does happen occasionally
on the other hand ive seen coppers do the same lots of times
comes down to terrible planning depts really as neighbourhoods are still being designed where this is pretty inevitable
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comes down to terrible planning depts really as neighbourhoods are still being designed where this is pretty inevitable
I'm not sure that it is the Planning Departments, but the actual Planning Policy, which is set by the elected councillors. As i understand it, Planning Policy dictates how many car spaces you need to provide on a development.
Several people i know in Bath who live in 1930's terrace houses have applied for planning permission to convert the front garden into a drive, but have been restricted to one space, and not allowed two.
Similarly, i am developing a site in Bristol, and we are only required to provide one car space (be that garage or parking space) per plot. We know full well that the likely purchasers are likely to have two cars per house (plus visitors), but the extra space for providing two spaces per plot would eat into living space, therefore value, to the point where the development is not economically viable.
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Similarly, i am developing a site in Bristol, and we are only required to provide one car space (be that garage or parking space) per plot. We know full well that the likely purchasers are likely to have two cars per house (plus visitors), but the extra space for providing two spaces per plot would eat into living space, therefore value, to the point where the development is not economically viable.
Thanks to Mare for making this clear. While I'm sure tha anti car councils in JD's posts exist most of the pressure to restrict on plot parking comes from developers keen to ensure viability/maximise profit.
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no there are well documented cases where the developers want to include parking space, but the council/planners restrict them to one space per plot or no spaces at all
edinburgh made a big deal about how pedestrian friendly it was having large amounts of houses built with no parking provision, similar in other places
developers will react to what the market wants because thats a free market, if people want car park spaces they would get them, the free market however is kicked far into the distance by manipulation by planning etc
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