I notice the government recently had a campaign to alert drivers to the need to move over to the left on Motorways and not hog the middle or even outside lane. I like to think I am a considerate driver but having recently returned to using the M25 Jct 5 to 11 on a regular basis I have come to the conclusion that it is safer to stay in the same lane.
If you try to follow the Police advice and move into the left lane when it is clear ahead you rapidly come up behind a truck or other slow mover and then other drivers in the middle lane wont let you back out! Most of the time you end up braking and using far more fuel. I have tried staying in the middle lane but then you end up undertaking slower traffic in the fast lane. I think we should use the US system Find a lane and stick to it undertaking is legal and the whole system just works better!
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Agreed. Here in the US the trucks are also not fitted with ridiculous speed limiters, and bowl along at 65+, the same speed as the rest of the traffic, so they don't operate like rolling roadblocks.
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Lane discipline is an outdated theory when it comes to roads as busy as the M25. My view is it's safer to stay in an appropriate lane and not keep chopping and changing. In fact that's what the signs say where the variable speed limit applies. Was following some guy the other night who thought he'd try and remind the other drivers how lane discipline works by constantly changing back to lane 1 as soon as he overtook the smallest bit of traffic. He didn't seem too bothered by other cars having to suddenly brake just to accomodate him...idiot!
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I would have no problem with pass on either side on three lane motorways. As stated, it is impossible to stay in lane 1 on busy roads unless you want to crawl along at 40mph, and it just results in constantly changing lanes if you want to maintain progress.
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Was following some guy the other night who thought he'd try and remind the other drivers how lane discipline works by constantly changing back to lane 1 as soon as he overtook the smallest bit of traffic. He didn't seem too bothered by other cars having to suddenly brake just to accomodate him...idiot!
Not sure what you're getting at here - if someone is following the rules as they see them, why do you assume he's doing it to try and remind other drivers of the rules? I can understand criticism of drivers who hog lanes, but how can you criticise someone for moving into the inside lane when they've finished overtaking?
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Prior to this he was unsuccessfully flashing people to move out of the fast lane. Obviosly unfamiliar with the standard commuter practice of lane hogging!
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If you were doing 70mph you would not rapidly come up behind a truck, where the speed difference is 14mph.
In theory you can do the same here 'undertaking', providing you don't swop and change your lanes to beat others.
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M25 was excluded from that campaign. At the time a government spokesperson (ok, a spokesman) pointed out that the variable speed limits only worked to ease congestion if people obeyed the signs to stay in lane which are seen all round the variable speed sections of the M25.
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I have spent M25 time studying this.
Select how you want to travel in the traffic safely. Maintain that safety cocoon, 2+ seconds then only change lanes when you can see you are holding ANYBODY up!! Look in the mirror every 30 seconds.............>?
American lane disciplin is good.
How the German Autobann driver gives space to faster traffic is wonderful.
We need better roads.
BrianH
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I'd prefer better driving standards first. It's positively gladatorial out there and it ain't getting any better.
Rush hour traffic congestion is a fact of life and trying to gain a couple of car lengths by slaloming between lanes is just pointless.
Agree with the point about German driving standards, it's a damn sight easier if you haven't got the conditions most of us face on a twice daily basis.
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70 mph has been the limit for decades. I remember my dad when he got his Ford Zephyr 40 years ago taking us for a blast at 70 mph on the M1 just to se what it was like. Nowadays I have a car that will do 130 mph but the limit is still the same as 40 years ago. My car is a zillion times safer than a ford consul (cream with a green roof, no seatbelts and no DAB radio) but I am still restricted to the same speed. I'm confident I can drive at 100 mph without problems but the law says otherwise yet I still get drivers gesticulating at me when I flash them to overtake them when they're doing 70 and I want to do 100.
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I wonder why? Most people love someone who races up their backside flashing their lights.
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If I was doing 100 and someone who wanted to go faster flashed me I'd move over. What's your problem Tom? If someone wants to break the law why not let them? Let me get on with my life (however much you disagree with my views) and I'll let you get on with yours.
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If I was doing 100 and someone who wanted to go faster flashed me I'd move over. What's your problem Tom? If someone wants to break the law why not let them? Let me get on with my life (however much you disagree with my views) and I'll let you get on with yours.
I've no problem at all. The needle on my bike is no stanger to 100mph+, but most of the time someone comes up behind flashing their lights it's when you've nowhere to go at that moment because you are overtaking a line of traffic yourself. So the answer is to barge in to the other lane to let them through, gas up to an illegal speed yourself or continue at the limit till you can move over. The latter would be the correct and safe option, but then of course flasher sits one foot off your jacksee still playing with his lights. Thats why people get annoyed.
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If someone wants to break the law why not let them?
If it's safe and convenient for me, I might. But why do you think anyone else should feel under any obligation to assist your law-breaking?
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This lane discipline thread is very interesting. I agree with being allowed to overtake on either side and indeed many instances of this are seen daily on the motorways when frustrated drivers can't be doing with yet another lane hogger. However one correspondent a while ago asked why if he was doing 70mph in ANY lane why he should move over to allow some speeder past...any thoughts on that one?
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Fair do's
But someone with a clear outside lane in front of them and doing 70 should pull over. I presume you agree.
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Absolutely. In fact they shouldn't be on the outside lane at all if the left is clear, and I agree it is annoying if you have to slow down for a daydreamer who won't move over.
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Many other countries allow overtaking on either side in a Motorway situation. It would certainly allow a freer flow of traffic than the current 'in and out and in and out' method.
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Many other countries allow overtaking on either side in a Motorway situation. It would certainly allow a freer flow of traffic than the current 'in and out and in and out' method.
But without a physical police presence (not a virtual camera-based one) how would you prevent unsafe weaving between the lanes? Bound to get it by the truckload if multi-lane overtaking were permitted.
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>>yet I still get drivers gesticulating at me when I flash them >>to overtake them when they're doing 70 and I want to do 100.
Chuffer junior has much the same problem. Fitness training has enabled him to walk much faster than other people, yet when he walks down the High Street yelling at people to get out his way, they get upset, no idea why.
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brilliantino mi amigo
however if there weren't any other drivers on the road I'd get along much better. I drive for business not for pleasure and unfortunately these days anywhere over 60 miles away is becoming an overnight stay as you cannot guarantee getting up at 6am to get somwhere for 9 am.
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brilliantino mi amigo however if there weren't any other drivers on the road I'd get along much better. I drive for business not for pleasure and unfortunately these days anywhere over 60 miles away is becoming an overnight stay as you cannot guarantee getting up at 6am to get somwhere for 9 am.
Perhaps all the more reason not to be driving at 100mph, if you need your license for your job.
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> Many other countries allow overtaking on either side in a Motorway situation.
You can pass on either side here. You're not allowed to undertake but you can pass on either side. Difference between passing and under/overtaking is that when overtaking you move out of one lane, pass the vehicle, and pull back into the original lane. Passing is just "being" in one lane, moving past another vehicle in a different lane, and staying in your lane.
Usually (in my experience) during commuter time, lane 3 is jammed full. All three lanes are moving the same average speed, but lane 3 is doing 70-50-70-50. Lanes 1 and 2 are doing 60-60-60-60 and have half the traffic density = twice the braking distance. I keep left. (And if I arrive 1 minute later, I've had a less stressful journey and I consider it worth it.)
-Mark
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Fair do's But someone with a clear outside lane in front of them and doing 70 should pull over. I presume you agree.
absolutely , although the few times i have used the m25 it was either empty so you had all the lanes to yourself except for the occassional racer you seem to get there in the small hours .
or the opposite it would be so busy that you might as well go with the flow and stay on the inside, less stress and i'm usually not in any great hurry so i dont mind....keo
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Having recently done a bit of advanced bike training with TVP, they say the same as BrianH. Stay in lane unless faster traffic moves up behind you, then move out of the way in good time.
Lane 3 in the safest as it's furthest from slower HGVs and traffic leaving and joining, both of which present a hazard.
The problem in the UK is unthinking drivers in their Motorway trance who don't notice faster traffic behind them (or much else) and then, when flashed, get all stroppy and refuse to move.
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The only problem with sticking to the nearside lane on the M25 is that they tend to turn into the slip road for the next exit, so you have to keep moving out into lane 2. As mentioned before, lane 3 is the most likely lane to drive in without having to move.
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Spot on - On most motorways traffic density from 0700-1900 is such that lane 3 is the safest option.
You only have to worry about the cars in front and pink fluffy dice jumping into your already small gap between you and the car in front.
AFAIC, middle lane is for HGV's to overtake each other in and inside lane is for when you want to come off the motorway.
I'm happy to cruise in the inside lane when traffic density permits but until we all start singing from the same hymn sheet my motorway residence in high density traffic will be lane 3.
Brad,
if you expect to do 100 mph on motorways between 0600 and 0900 to make your appointments, then yes you are better off staying overnight.
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I used to do a commute around the south west quadrant of the M25 and would quite frequently use the inside lane, go off at the slip road at the junctions and around the roundabout onto the joining slip road and join the motorway around a mile ahead of the lane three hoggers.
I got the idea from the driver of the Jetlink Coach I used to use who did this at most junctions between Gatwick and Heathrow. Even with the traffic lights it used to work out quicker to do this between about 7am and 10 am when lanes 2 and 3 were solid...beware however of going off at the junctions where you cannot rejoin.
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Fancy giving the game away helicopter. Now they'll all be doing it :-(
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I would rather have my nether regions squeezed in a vice than do that commute again other than by helicopter or motorbike.
Smokie - If they all start doing the slip road shuffle you can always stay in lane 1 and at the slip roads as everybody else goes off you should gain about half a mile.
Believe me I had plenty of time to think about this and IMO you are generally better staying in lane 1 at least on that part of the M25 - Do not change lanes as the law of sod applies ie the lane which you change to always stops immediately and the lane you just left gains three miles on you.....
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I nearly always just stay in lane. Pick a distinctive car as an index in another lane, and you will usually see that although one of other of you might go ahead 100 yards more than the other, it's usually pretty even. I suppose if you hopped each time at exactly the right time then you might reach the next traffic jam 30 seconds or so quicker...
Helicopter - are you also one of those who, on a dual carriageway when wanting to turn left at a roundabout but the lh lane is slow, uses the right hand lane and does a complete circuit and a quarter?
I know I am... ;-)
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It has been known - there is one roundabout locally where the left hand lane is strictly for left hand turners and lightly used and the right hand lane is always very busy. People who come up the left and try to jump across to the right infuriate me.
When turning right at a roundabout on a dual carrigeway which has a long queue I tend to go straight on to the next roundabout 1/4 mile down the road where no one turns right and come back up to the first roundabout and do a left.
I always make time.
Are you as annoyed as me at those people on dual carriageways who move into the left hand lane a mile or so before they are turning and dawdle along indicating left whilst infuriating the people behind.
We have a whole new roundabout tactics thread here folks.
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Of course I should have said dawdling along indicating right....
Must be too much brandy in the mince pies...
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