Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Mon
Hi,

Does anyone have any experience of having a bus lane outside their property and thus incurring Penalty Charge notices, every time they access their property? I have been advised by Transport for London (TFL) that when they install a bus lane and camera they are only obliged to talk to the local council and the police, and not the residents they affect (for obvious reasons!).

TFL have suggested an absurd way of accessing my property via the bus lane which I want to contest. It consists of me cutting across the bus lane only when I am parallel to the entrance of my drive. This may work in other situations, however I have a busy dual carriageway outside the house and 20 yards down from my house is the Target roundabout in Northolt, which has access to the very busy A40 running in either direction. There is a lot of congestion in peak times during which the camera operates (7-10 am and 4-7pm) on the road with motorists speeding up as they get to the roundabout not slowing down. I am scared that if I follow TFL?s generic advice then I risk injury to myself and other motorists.

Otherwise I have no issue with the bus lane or the camera, I only want the ability to access my property safely.

I would welcome any useful comments or suggestions (moving house isn?t an option). Is there some law which states that every individual has the right to access their property in a safe and secure manner (hope against hope!!!).

I will also be going to the CAB but am waiting for a reply from TFL about their recommendations for accessing the property.

Many thanks in advance to any useful suggestions/comments!
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Flat in Fifth
Not totally familar with the location though do recall I must have driven past your place during half term week on the way from the M40 to Rayner's Lane Tube station. Sound about right?

Presumably this affects not just yourself but also other residents?

What about a group of you getting together and raising the issues with councillors and MP?


Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Dwight Van Driver
Just spent an hour going through the Traffic Signs and General Directions Regs 2002 to see the significance of lines and signs in relation to Bus Lanes as sometimes it is explained just what or who can ignore the signs. Alas nothing.

What they do tell me is that the signs are erected under the authority of an Act, regulation or Order.

So, if I were you, it would be down to the Local Authority and ask to see the Order giving the authority for the Bus lane outside your house. Inspect this document carefully and see if there are any exemptions. There is generally a part in an Order that gives authority to various classes to be exempt. It may contain a clause "to allow access to adjacent property" However from what you say it may well be that you will have access only if you come from the offside only i.e. a right turn.It will all depend on the words.

DVD
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - SR
I often have to access a location that is probably similar - clear bus lane with a queue of traffic in the outside lane. I tend to wait until a reasonable distance from the entrance, then use the bus lane - luckily the bus lanes are very rarely enforced.

I have often felt that an exception to the bus lane could be made when someone is intending to turn left and there is no obstruction along the bus lane to prevent them making that turn, therefore getting out of the way of following buses.
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Dwight Van Driver
The problem SR is that anyone caught illegally in a bus lane would say that they had entered to turn left at a property so that the scheme would be unenforceable. Waste of space and time then?

DVD
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - SR
Maybe if they were caught by a static camera - although if there was no left turn ahead then it would be difficult to claim that.

However, many bus lanes do not have cameras, and if Plod was involved it would be fairly straightforward for them to wait and see where the offending vehicle goes. I believe some bus lanes are monitored by cameras on buses, and again it would be fairly easy to see where they go.

I don't see how something that would make life easier for people who are forced to waste time queueing unncessarily when there's a clear bus lane, and they wouldn't cause any obstructions to buses (isn't that the whole point), could be described as a waste of space and time. Plenty do it now anyway and get away with it, and they're not even turning left.

Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Cliff Pope
People are often adversely affected by changes in road layout etc - I'd have thought there is (ought to be!) a mechanism for consultation/compensation.
I have seen access drives closed off because they are deemed too close to a now busier/improved junction, or dual carriageways causing someone to have to drive 5 miles to the next roundabout to approach from the other direction. Farmers get special bridges made to take cows across motorways, also badgers, toads etc.
Ultimately surely obstructing lawful access to a person's property is a grounds for legal action?
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - No Do$h
Picture the scenario:

a)Homeowner pulls into bus lane 40yds before property. A couple of people behind homeowner see this and think, "Well if they're doing it, so am I". Two vehicles ahead a beligerent driver in a 7t Iveco Cargo does the vigilante bit and partially blocks the lane.....

b)Bus equipped with camera is behind homeowner as homeowner pulls into bus lane with 40yds to go. Picture taken. Homeowner pulls into driveway. Bus driver thinks, "Oh, reasonable to do that" but picture still on camera. NIP in post.

It isn't going to work.

I'm afraid the solution is to use the rear view mirror, the near side wing mirror and a clear look over the shoulder for a couple of seconds before and during the turn into the driveway, after ensuring the vehicle in front has moved on. Indicators obligatory. And mind the cyclist in your blind-spot as you make the turn, the bus lane is theirs as well.

VERY frustrating for you as the homeowner and you have my every sympathy.
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Wales Forester
No Dosh has summed it up nicely I think.

PP
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - teabelly
Alternatively. Home owner gets into bus lane intending to turn left into own driveway. Camera spots them, picture sent off to wherever for procesing. They check the registration address of vehicle and see that they live on the bus lane within sensible distance of infringement spot. NIP not produced.

Or change the software in the camera so people are snapped for stopping in a bus lane rather than driving along it. If they're not holding any buses up then it seems rather daft to waste the road space.


teabelly
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - billy25
i tend to agree with teabellies first point,
it wouldn't take/cost that much to bus lane operators to set up a database of home-owner addresses along their routes,and if the homeowners registered their car reg details with them, they (operators) would be able to check the drivers *right* to be in the bus lane at any given point.

billy
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Mark (RLBS)
You are joking, of course.

REmember when they change thier car, remember when they borrow/rent/hire a car, remember when they have visitors etc. etc.

Not a prayer.

Its just stupid having a bus lane outside people's driveways in the first place.
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - billy25
1st point: er!..wasn't actually!:-(
2nd point: i dont rent/hire/have visitors (very lonely) :-(
3rd point: totally agree!! (why do they build next to bus lanes in first place!) :-)

i shall now retire from this thread (hanging head in shame) :-(

billy
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - Dwight Van Driver
Shame on you all. Not one has come up with the ultimate solution.

Buy a bus.

DVD :->
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - borasport20
Shame on you all. Not one has come up with the
ultimate solution.
Buy a bus.
DVD :->

aren't most bus lanes open to taxis ?

the latest LTI's look quite comfortable, and probably at least as practical as most mpv's. You'ld also be in exalted company (HRH the D of E, Stephen Fry and others)

Also most other drivers will give you a wide berth, you can U-turn anywhere you want, carry out all communication by means of the horn or sign language and generally ignore the highway code.
(now ducks for cover in case there are any taxi drivers in)
p.s. - what happened to DaveTaxiDriver ?

Bora - what Bora ?
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - peterb
Downside is, people keep hailing you or (worse) try to jump in at the lights.

Nevertheless, I'd be tempted by a petrol version!
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - borasport20
Downside is, people keep hailing you or (worse) try to jump
in at the lights.


Well, you could let them in and take their money, or alternatively put an inflatable anne widecombe/john prescott/other object of popular dislike to discourage punters

(It's friday afternoon - I'm just thinking how much gossip and mischief you could generate by putting and inflatable anne widecombe AND an inflatable john prescott in the back of a cab and then parking it outside Stringfellows at three in the morning....)


Bora - what Bora ?
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - No Do$h
p.s. - what happened to DaveTaxiDriver ?


Last posted in May and last signed into the forum in July. Not seen since.

Anybody known of Dave's whereabouts? Stuck on the M25? All info gratefully received.
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - SR
Scenario a) If the second vehicle is pulling into the homeowner's drive then fine.....

If they're turning left ahead and there's no obstruction ahead, also fine.

Iveco driver should know the circumstances and keep out.

In any event, no worse than current scenario - 300 yards of traffic queued in outside lane - peppered with vehicles who are being held up by a measure designed to leave space clear for buses, but there are none. Only in last 20 yards are they allowed to venture to the inside lane. Occasional car dives for the bus lane 50 yards back, then 70 yards, then 100 yards, leaving the rest to fume. One or two decide to use the bus lane to overtake on the inside and force their way back out at the lights ahead. Belligerent Iveco driver blocks the bus lane anyway.....

Scenario b) Camera records continuously (do they - if not, how are the photos triggered?) - will be obvious where the car went.

Scenario c) Where no cameras in use, plod can wait to see where the car goes and act accordingly.

Why not have a sign a certain distance before the junction indicating the bus lane is now a "bus, taxi, bike or left turn" lane? Saves pointless queuing in outside lane.
Penalty Charges and Bureaucracy gone MAD - king arthur
Next time I drive up that road (A312 to Northolt) I'm going to make sure I have a camera with me. This way, if by some miracle I do happen to see a bus using the bus lane, I can take a picture and have it framed. You never know, one day it might be worth something for its rarity value.
 

Value my car