Advanced driving question - Obsolete
Today I was joining a dual carrageway in lane 1 of a two lane slip road and I saw a car zooming down lane 2. I knew he was going to sit between me and the dual carriageway and he did just that. What was worrying was the lack of any hard shoulder - the slip road just joined at 45 degrees - so it was potentially dangerous. As it was I feel my safety was compromised by this plonker. What do you advanced driving gurus reckon I should have done? My guess is: move to lane 2 and ignore the inevitable hooting and light flashing. Thanks. Leif.


PS: saw an expensive BMW convertible steaming down the M4 at 100 mph in lane 3, then dart across to lane 1, undertake some cars, then dart back out to lane 3. I was gob smacked at the risks being taken. A few miles further on chummy was stopped on the hard shoulder behind a dark blue Vauxhall, with a porta-plod talking to him through the passenger window. It's nice to see that porta-plod are doing their job.
Advanced driving question - TrevP
Leif -

How about backing off and letting him mix it with the dual carriageway traffic several seconds ahead of you?

It was ingrained into me "diddly-dum" years ago - let the "Richard Heads" (though they weren't called that then) go and annoy somebody else.
Advanced driving question - Obsolete
Thanks TrevP: I often do just that. This case was a bit tricky though. I didn't realise he would block me until it was too late to slow down. I couldn't speed up due to traffic on the DC.

I agree about letting the Little Richards go first.
Advanced driving question - RichardW
Hmm, difficult to say without knowing the exact layout of the road, what the visibility on the DC was like, the point at which you noticed him and his speed. However, I doubt pulling in front of him is the right thing to do - this compromises your safety cell as he might be paying so little attention to what is going on that he might run in the back of you.

I'd say 2 options:

1. If he's far enough behind, the DC is clear, your car is fast enough, and you are confident enough, then accelerate to get onto the DC before him - taking up position in lane 1 to allow him to pass.

2. If you can't be sure of making option 1 stick, then you've got to slow down to allow him to pass and get onto the DC so your view is opened again and you don't get in his way. You might need to brake to make this come right.

Split second decision which might turn out to be wrong, but at least you're protecting your safety zone - the most important thing to do. Best to let these people pass so they can be stopped by the boys in blue!

Richard
Advanced driving question - Obsolete
RichardW: 1) was not possible due to traffic. 2) was probably possible - as TrevP suggested - but my reactions were too slow. I guess experience might improve that. Presumably dropping a gear for manoeuverability helps too. Thanks. Leif.
Advanced driving question - Shortwing Rob
Richard W has it exactly correct.

If dropping a gear would have given you more options - then realising this means that you are well on the way to advanced-drivership.

I have always believed that as large as possible an excess of power is a safety-feature. Your example just confirms this.

RoB P
Advanced driving question - Wales Forester
I'd say quite simply that if you're joining a dual carriageway or motorway in the nearside lane of a two lane sliproad then you've got to expect Mr Numpty in the outside lane of the sliproad to get right in the way at exactly the wrong time, so why not just use the outer lane on the sliproad yourself to begin with and let him undertake if he's in that much of a hurry.
I did a driving course with an ex police instructor a while back and his advice was exactly that.

PP
Advanced driving question - peterb
Agree with the drop-a-gear advice. I often join motorways or dual carriageways in 3rd or 4th gear (of 6). This provides me with lots of variable valve timed grunt should I need it.
Advanced driving question - TrevP
"why not just use the outer lane on the sliproad yourself to begin with and let him undertake if he's in that much of a hurry."

Not something I would give as general advice.

My "default" recommendation would be as before -

BUT, if we were "one-to-one",
and I were happy with your observation skills,
and you had a reasonably nippy car,
I may suggest that you entered DC from lane1 of sliproad - SMARTLY.
As in do 30-70 in 3rd QUICKLY.

This tends to leave the Vectra driver who was attempting an overtake on the sliproad "considering his position".
Advanced driving question - matt35 {P}
Leif,

When,oh when, are you going to join the IAM and later go for RoSPA?
Being in the right gear, as mentioned by another post, gives you the speed to either accelerate away from the plonkers or, by easing off the gas, keep your bubble and your no claims bonus intact.

Matt35.

PS - on the High Performance Course, when I left John Lyon to drive two hours home - he told me that the only time I should be in top gear on my auto should be on the 25 minutes on the M11. In 5 months I have seen no reduction in MPG in driving like this and the car is much better balanced in all conditions.
Advanced driving question - Obsolete
Matt35: I did join the IAM and didn't like the driving and teaching styles. I was less than impressed by the observer who went too fast on the demonstration drive leaving me feeling ill at ease. (What about horses on country roads for goodness sake.) In the observed drives he pushed me to accelerate and brake a lot more and disapproved of me losing speed naturally by easing off the gas when possible and reasonable. Ripley in his book endorses my approach as acceptable. There are other issues I didn't like: being told to use push-pull steering only (I find it awkward when a lot of lock is required), being told to always drive towards the centre line on corners except in a 30 (I worry that it can be dangerous after I nearly hit a motor bike doing this on a tight corner) and so on. I just felt uncomfortable with the driving style and the annoying teaching style. Ripley in his book seems far more relaxed than the IAM approach.

I am already a relaxed driver, I can create a safety cell around me, I have decent observation skills and I can ignore and manage plonkers. But I want to learn the less obvious techniques and technical stuff.

I might try RoSPA. They give a lecture course by a class 1 porta-plod AND observed drives which sounds a bit more professional. Or I might try the AA who give advanced driving courses.
Advanced driving question - slefLX
Leif, I was interested in your comments about the IAM. In my group their policy is to send you out with a different observer each time, personally I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing but I'm willing to go with it. Admittedly I've only done the assessment drive and first session so far but up to now having read the course booklet there's nothing I didn't expect. If it gets bad I'll let you know.
Advanced driving question - Obsolete
Hi slefLX. I wouldn't mind hearing how your 'course' goes. I am on a bit of a downer with the IAM in case you hadn't guessed. Leif.
Advanced driving question - slefLX
Apparently one of the examiners for our area (or the only one, I'm not sure) often buys the candidate a cup of tea or similar after their test. Sounds like a reasonable man.
Advanced driving question - Obsolete
I am sure he is. Presumably he does this out of a desire to improve road safety.
Advanced driving question - TrevP
"disapproved of me losing speed naturally by easing off the gas when possible and reasonable"

Interesting - when that is exactly what I look for.

Mind you - I do also look for FIRM acceleration away from hazards - as per this example -

Imagine a half-mile straight of clear road leading to a sharp bend. Most drivers will lightly accelerate over at least two thirds of the straight, then brake for the bend. Instead, firmly use full power when the view is best at the beginning of the straight (over, say, one third of the distance) during this time assess the speed for the bend and ease off the power, so that engine braking brings the speed to that required for the corner. Fuel consumption is the same for both methods, if speed and distance are equal, and acceleration sense assists concentration, alertness and safety.
Advanced driving question - matt35 {P}
Trev,
I have an e mail from a guy who has to do a 20 minute lecture on Positioning next week for his company.
I have told him to get out and buy PYADT and Roadcraft, look at www.driving/www.abd/wwwukspeedtraps.
Any thoughts on where I can direct him in a hurry?
Regards,
Matt35.
Advanced driving question - TrevP
Matt -

sorry, pal - missed you yesterday.

Lecture to what audience? General Public or IAM people?

If 1), RoadCraft is plenty (Following, Bends and Overtaking is enough to absorb).

If latter, then we are into extension of above - like
a) my safe following position is "book" PLUS shortfall of chummy behind,
b) Over dotted white line for view on approach to hazard,
c) Out for view BEFORE accelerating when overtaking.

Where your pal gets this latter "stuff" from in a concise form?
Has John Lyon not published anything?
He is about as good as it gets.

Trev
Advanced driving question - matt35 {P}
Trev,
I referred him to Roadcraft and to some other sites which gave him some light entertainment - he is Tranport man with a truck company so I also referred him to IAM Fleet Training.
But - I got lucky - on the IAM Forum yesterday there was an item by Nigel Albright on the exact subject - I asked for a copy and he e mailed me 4 pages which are very detailed.
John Lyon has published a book but I cannot find a copy as it is out of print.
Nigel is at www.driving@ntlworld.com if you want a copy - I would post it here but think our leaders would crucify me?
It really is worth reading.
Regards,
Matt35.
Advanced driving question - matt35 {P}
Matt -
sorry, pal - missed you yesterday.
Lecture to what audience? General Public or IAM people?
If 1), RoadCraft is plenty (Following, Bends and Overtaking is enough
to absorb).
If latter, then we are into extension of above - like
a) my safe following position is \"book\" PLUS shortfall of chummy
behind,
b) Over dotted white line for view on approach to hazard,
c) Out for view BEFORE accelerating when overtaking.
Where your pal gets this latter \"stuff\" from in a concise
form?
Has John Lyon not published anything?
He is about as good as it gets.
Trev


Trev,

If and when you read the article mentioned, note that Nigel added \'page 3 Col 1 para 3 line 1 should read\';
\'So the major area of danger is going to be blind off-side junctions or entrances\'.

As there is no perfect driver (or perfect drive) any comments you have to make will be read with interest either on the website or I can ask Mark to put us in direct contact?

Good Weekend,

Matt35.

 

Value my car