Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Ben 10
Following this case it appears the Courts in Scotland are not going to prosecute the driver even though he allegedly lied to the DVLA and his employers about his medical history.

There could be a private prosecution by relatives of those that died or even by the DVLA, but this is yet to be confirmed in England by the CPS or DVLA.

Well as a PCV and LGV licence holder that had to declare medical conditions in return for the privelage of being allowed to drive these vehicles for a living, I think the DVLA should have him prosecuted. If those conditions were too serious enough for the DVLA, I would not have been given a licence.

I knew the rules when I applied and I abided by those. The rules of declaration are there for a reason. To protect other road users and pedestrians from those that could fall ill at the wheel. This guy allegedly ignored those rules so should have to pay the penalty. The incident was serious enough for 6 people to lose their lives, and I think the DVLA should be serious enough to prosecute for the alleged lies provided to obtain a licence.

If nothing is done, then it gives everyone applying for professional licences carte blanche to do what they like and get away with it. If you are not fit to undertake a particular occupation due to medical conditions, tough. The rules are in place for good reason.
Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - RobJP

I have to agree. In fact, on the DVLA medical form (which he (allegedly lied on), the declaration is quite clear (section 12, page 8, form D4) :

I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to prosecution.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - concrete

I agree with both comments so far. I would go even further and look to prosecute Glasgow City Council for contributory negligence. This for their failure to check his CV and references with his previous employer. Had they done so I believe they would not have offered him a driving job and the incident may not have come to pass. I believe they have a case to answer.

On a personal note; although retired I was in Glasgow the previous week doing some work for my previous company. During a break a colleague and I were sat outside so he could have a cigarette with his coffee. We were sat on the terrace of the pub, literally only feet away from the crash site. It is a very busy junction with lots of traffic and lots of people. A runaway vehicle can and did cause carnage. My colleague telephoned me when he saw the news, he was quite shaken when he recognised the site immediately and realised we were there just days before. Luck of the draw.

Cheers Concrete

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - RT

It's a fairly uniform public consensus that the Crown Office in Scotland was wrong and premature in announcing that no-one would face criminal charges under Scot's law. The Fatal Accident Enquiry (FAI) can't overturn that but it's good if DVLA prosecute under UK law.

Sanctions against his current employer, previous employer and medical practitioners will probably depend on civil actions rather than criminal.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - oldroverboy.

I am utterly astounded that there will be no prosecution of a man who killed 6 people .

Any other words fail me.

As another contributor says, this case will set a precedent.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - concrete

I heard on the news that the family of one of the victims, which was a fatality, has informed the inquest that they intend to initiate a private prosecution against Harry Clark, the refuse lorry driver involved in the incident.

This is a shrewd move as it puts the driver into a very difficult position. If he testifies he has little option under oath but to admit he omitted vital information, effectively lying. If he remains silent then the inquest can draw whatever conclusions they may from his stance, given the evidence they have, that can only be to his detriment. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Rightly so IMHO. What he did, and the resultant consequences, make his actions unforgivable to any family. Also it should make him culpable in the eyes af the law. I hope he does the right thing, although from his previous behaviour I don't think he has the strength of character to do so. If he tells the whole truth it serves to lift the whole proceedings from a 'witch hunt' into a factual account which serves justice and allows families to move on. He should be punished either way, either via private prosecution or public. Pity the relevant authorities did not have the courage to fight for the families rights and uphold the cause of justice. It is shame all round that we now expect little else from officialdom.

Concrete

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - RT

I heard on the news that the family of one of the victims, which was a fatality, has informed the inquest that they intend to initiate a private prosecution against Harry Clark, the refuse lorry driver involved in the incident.

This is a shrewd move as it puts the driver into a very difficult position. If he testifies he has little option under oath but to admit he omitted vital information, effectively lying. If he remains silent then the inquest can draw whatever conclusions they may from his stance, given the evidence they have, that can only be to his detriment. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Rightly so IMHO. What he did, and the resultant consequences, make his actions unforgivable to any family. Also it should make him culpable in the eyes af the law. I hope he does the right thing, although from his previous behaviour I don't think he has the strength of character to do so. If he tells the whole truth it serves to lift the whole proceedings from a 'witch hunt' into a factual account which serves justice and allows families to move on. He should be punished either way, either via private prosecution or public. Pity the relevant authorities did not have the courage to fight for the families rights and uphold the cause of justice. It is shame all round that we now expect little else from officialdom.

Concrete

The FAI will have to be suspended if a private prosecution goes ahead - only at the conclusion of any criminal proceedings can the FAI continue - the driver could not then be forced to give further evidence.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Smileyman

I disagree with your use of the word 'privelage' - in this society where the majority do drive it's a 'right' to be able to drive, but with rights come responsibilites one of which is to comply with the requirements of DVLA, which have been made into law.

If I were the family of the victims I'd consider the lack of presecution to be a failure of the system, a dangerous route to be taking. However, I also consider it wrong to be using English law for Scotland, so a Scots Law solution needs to be found, even if it means new law to plug the legal gap.

I do agree with comments that the employer has to make their own checks to ensure their drivers are fit to drive - I'd like to think the insurerance industry will have an input to ensure sufficient checks are made of all present and future drivers they cover.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Ben 10
Apparently because the DVLA is south of the border and under English law they can prosecute him through the CPS as his licence was issued there. Nothing to do with Scotttish laws. Scotland doesn't at present issue their own driving licences.
Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - focussed

Why is there no consistency in the way the law is applied in the UK?

This bloke has committed a criminal offence by concealing his history of blackouts and fainting fits while driving buses and trucks and his employers were negligent in not following up his references and medical history.

Historically,there was no problem prosecuting the driver of the 4x4 and trailer who fell asleep, ran off the motorway and down an embankment onto a rail track and caused the Selby rail track disaster in 2002. There were no crash barriers installed at the spot to stop the vehicle, only a flimsy wooden fence - but the driver got 5 years inside.

That driver didn't do anything wrong except driving tired - no drink-no drugs.

In that case whoever decided not to install barriers should have got the five years not the driver.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Andrew-T

In that case whoever decided not to install barriers should have got the five years not the driver.

Oh come on! If that was the rule we would have to live enclosed by barriers in case something happened. There's already too much of that.

On the right to drive - going back far enough, the right to use 'the king (or queen)'s highway belongs to the public in general, traditionally pedestrians and horse riders. When the first powered vehicles arrived there were men with red flags giving warning of an approaching danger.

Now the situation has reversed, most of the traffic is powered, and pedestrians can hardly use the sidewalks nominally reserved for them. But it is still a right to walk on the highway and a privilege to drive on it, which needs a licence.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Sofa Spud

QUOTE: ""I disagree with your use of the word 'privelage' - in this society where the majority do drive it's a 'right' to be able to drive""

Wrong - It is certainly not a right to be able to drive. Drivers are licenced to drive by the state after passing the test and they can have that licence suspended or revoked if their driving behaviour or medical condition fails to meet the standards.

People have right to apply for a driving licence and learn to drive, unless they have a medical condition that disallows them, but that's all.

Generally, people have a right to TRAVEL, but that's not the same as a right to drive.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Avant

Does anybody know WHY there is to be no presecution?

In civil law the best thing the victims' relatives can do is to sue Glasgow Corporation (or whatever they're called) in civil law, vicariously, as they were the employers of the driver.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Dwight Van Driver

My question is where did he make the false declaration - Scotland when he filled in and signed the form or England when the form was received at DVLA?

DVD

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - bazza

The authorities see it as a tragic accident, which seems about right to me. People who have a bad heart and thus heart attacks at the wheel for example and cause serious accidents do not end up being prosecuted to my knowledge. By the way I agree that the guy who spilled onto the rail track was particularly hard done by.

But he should be brought to task for failure to disclose---- whatever the penalty is for that--- I doubt it is variable dependant on the consequences?

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - RT

My question is where did he make the false declaration - Scotland when he filled in and signed the form or England when the form was received at DVLA?

DVD

Driver Licence law isn't devolved to Wales or Scotland, so it's UK law that would be applied, not English law.

Driver Licencing law in Northern Ireland is devolved though.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - slkfanboy

Maybe the real reason is that if the DVLA did take him to court it could open the door for a case of negligence against the council.

Clearly the vetting process should have required a letter from the doctor that he was safe to drive and take someones word!

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - concrete

I appreciate all the comments made. The situation is essentially a very simple one. The driver lied to conceal his mediacl condition. Glasgow City Council were negligent for not checking his references and medical status. Because of those two omissions this incident became a likelehood, which unfortunately became a reality.

The driver is a known liar, as testified by his previous employer, and as such should have the full force of the law brought against him. The Council were negligent by omission and therefore were instrumental in the events that led to this tragic incident. Slam Dunk! Any half decent barrister would wipe the floor with both parties and ensure suitable punishment. It is owed to the victims and their families that the process is carried through to this conclusion. Then they can move on, safe in the knowledge that this incident is unlikely to happen again by a repeat of the same circumstances.

This does not help the victims but it will help the survivors and all their families that all possible means are employed to secure justice.

Cheers Concrete

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - oldroverboy.

I appreciate all the comments made.

The driver is a known liar, as testified by his previous employer, and as such should have the full force of the law brought against him.

This does not help the victims but it will help the survivors and all their families that all possible means are employed to secure justice.

Cheers Concrete

Ditto ORB

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - RobJP

UPDATE :

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-339068...5

The DVLA will NOT be bringing a prosectuion for the false declaration

The DVLA : utterly spineless.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - RT

UPDATE :

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-339068...5

The DVLA will NOT be bringing a prosectuion for the false declaration

The DVLA : utterly spineless.

+1 agreed

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Manatee

They have just followed "the decision of the Crown Office in Scotland not to prosecute." Whilst I don't think he was technically given immunity, there was an initial decision not to prosecute, presumably in the interests of finding the facts for the inquiry.

A prosecution will probably achieve very little at this stage, the damage is done, it will rake over the coals of a very distressing accident, he will be a pariah and he will never again drive an LGV in any case.

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Ben 10
Well that makes the DVLAs rules pointless.

So anyone who could be excluded from driving because of medical issues, can lie through their back teeth without any threat of punishment. The authorities on this issue are a laughing stock.

If my condition worsens when my renewal is up, I'll just fiddle it to keep on driving. A bad day all round for all road users. There will be more concealment of medical issues leading to more incidents of this nature.

I can't believe no one is going to be brought to book over it. I hope the DVLA wipe those threats from the application forms, because it means nothing.
Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Manatee

It seems this particular ship sailed in February, when he was told he would not be prosecuted. That decision is now being criticised.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/13521495.George_Square.../

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Bromptonaut

There's a well established principle in both Scotland and England/Wales that inquests and inquiries do not take place until criminal proceedings, or at least the elements of where a a jury is in place, are complete. That is to do with matters of possible self incrimination, predjudice to the jury etc etc.

IIRC the second phase of the Leveson Inquiry is currently adjourned until cases from Elvedon etc criminal investigations are complete. Publication of the rail accident inquiry report on a tragic accident on the Liverpool 'underground' was held up until after the criminal case against the train conductor.

The decision not to prosecute in the Glasgow case was probably wrong but it's now too late to reverse it.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 13/08/2015 at 22:30

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - focussed

Oh come on! If that was the rule we would have to live enclosed by barriers in case something happened. There's already too much of that.

Funny that after this incident armco barriers were being erected close to-near -and around any location where a road bridge or road crossed or went anywhere near to a railway line as fast as they could erect them.

I take it you don't subscribe to the theory of "if it can happen it may happen"then?

Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver - Andrew-T

<< I take it you don't subscribe to the theory of "if it can happen it may happen"then? >>

I subscribe to the theory that it could happen almost everywhere, and I would rather not live surrounded by expensive protection against tiny probabilities. The driver of that Land Rover could have dozed off almost anywhere on the M62, which has Armco all along the centre but not along the edges, where the risk is considered smaller.

I'm not surprised that barriers went up at the accident site - it showed that the authorities had noticed, decided it must be an accident black-spot, and done something about it. I wonder if they have been hit since?

Will barriers appear at the bottom of that Scottish hill, I wonder.

Edited by Andrew-T on 15/08/2015 at 00:06