Dumb Accident - Peter D
I was approaching a well known notorious junction which is on the outside of a sharp left hand bend. I was indicating to turn right and cautious due to the weather conditions although my section of road was in bright sunshine, when I spotted a car coming down the hill on the shaded and frosty road.. I stopped but to my amazement the other party did not appear to react until quite late when the front of the car dipped and the noise of locked up wheels. Unfortunately he failed to stop by a few cm’s and collided with the corner of my front N/S wing. Now the rub is that when I reversed my car to take it to a safe place is was clear that the impact was in the middle of his Nissan Primera Bumper/Grill/Number plate and the point on contact, not forgetting I was stationary was only 30 odd cm’s from the white line, thus he had both O/S wheels on my side of the road.

Now I thought this was clear cut as I was stationary. So We exchanged details and I rang my insurance company to be informed that in most cases the vehicle turning from a major to a minor road is deemed to be responsible. After explaining that I was Stationary, of which there was no doubt and clearly evident from the photos of the damage i.e. no scrapping and a clean line in my upper wing from the lip of his bonnet and that he had two wheels on my side of the road they have referred it to the dispute department. I do not know what the other party have stated and the only concern the guy had at the scene was that he was going to trade the car in later that day.

A photo of the debris including a corner of his number plate clearly shows that the middle of the bumper would have been only 30 cm on his side of the road.. who do you think will be held responsible for this accident surely not a dumb K4K after, all I was stationary. There were passengers in both cars, no independent witnesses and the police were not involved, I though it was obvious Dooh
I have supplied the insurance company with a full statement and a CD with all the post accident Photos.


Regards Peter
Dumb Accident - RichardW
Peter,

No doubt Mark will be along in a minute with some words of wisdom, but I am having a bit of trouble invisaging the scene. Were you turning right at a T junction (from the direction where you had to turn right or left)? You set off, saw the car, then stopped, and he skidded round the corner and bumped the nearside of you car? He had the 'right of way' then I guess, and you pulled out in front of him? If this is correct understanding then I think, even though you were stationary at the time of the impact, you are at least 50% to blame as you pulled out in front of the car, had you not done so he (might) not have skidded and ended up on 'your' side of the road. If I have interpreted wrong, sorry - please eleaborate! It's the N/S of your car getting damaged I'm struggling to get my head round.

Richard
Dumb Accident - Peter D
Yes I agree it is difficult to envisage. The junction is on the outside apex of a sharp left ( from my respent ) hand bend. I was wanting to turn right but saw him comming down the hill and had come to a halt, it turn out he was maybe 1/4 to 1/3 on my side of the road. If he had just locked up and gone sraight on he would have missed me altogether. My from corner N/S wing was about 30 cm's over the nominal white line and he impacted me right in the centre of his bumper thus I conclude he was cutting the corner, very common on this bad bend, and was unable to stop when he saw me. I take your point about 50% in the wrong and that's probably how the insurance company will see it K4K not nice. I should have called the police I guess. Thanks Peter
Dumb Accident - TrevorP
I think the possible confusion here is that Peter says "N/S"
when he means "Driver's side" (what most others call "O/S).

Peter - you say you were "about 30 cm's over the nominal white line", but that "I conclude he was cutting the corner".

But then "I should have called the police I guess."

For what reason?
Dumb Accident - Peter D
No as the turn to the right is right opposite the apex of the bend ( How Dumb ) I had stopped with my N/S ( Left/Passenger side corner exposed to him.

Yes he was cutting the corner and I should have called the police as we had no witnesse and he would not communicate other than his name and address. He could now say what he wants except I have the post accident Photos and the angle on inpact and the fact I was stationary are quite clear from the Photos of the damage to the Bumper, and wing corner. I hope that clear it up. Thanks Peter.
Dumb Accident - Dave_TD
Sorry, it's still not really clear how the road and the cars are laid out - the story keeps jumping from a bend to a hill and I can't be certain which part of the road is on an incline, how steep, or how much this would affect what happened. No chance you could post a couple of relevant photos (with registration numbers blanked out, obviously) to clarify things a little? The place to put them is here:

groups.msn.com/honestjohn/problems.msnw

Dave.
Dumb Accident - Mark (RLBS)
Sorry, but I am being a bit dense about this as well.

However, you were, at least partially, on his side of the road ? Over the white line ?

How wide is the road ? Is there a turn lane ?

Personally I don't fancy your chances, but I need to be able to understand the accident before Ic an really comment.
Dumb Accident - No Do$h
Would it not be practical and helpful to post some of the clearer pics you have to www.honestjohn.co.uk/redirect.php?http://groups.ms...1

Mark? Ok with you?
Dumb Accident - Mark (RLBS)
Well, you could have used a slightly different URL, but in principle that would be ok, yes.
Dumb Accident - No Do$h
Well, you could have used a slightly different URL, but in
principle that would be ok, yes.

Ooops. See your point..... :o(
Dumb Accident - Jonathan {p}
Mark has no control over the hotmail site. Lee H (Citroenian)set it up for everyone to use.
Dumb Accident - Mark (RLBS)
To be clear, the photograph site is not connected in anyway to this, Honest John, site.

It is a facility, sadly little used, which Lee kindly set up some time ago for general use of backroom inhabitants.

However, if you click on the link that was posted, my comments might become a little clearer.

Dumb Accident - No Do$h
Dave.


DTD, I could have sworn your post wasn't there when I entered mine! I must be having one of those afternoons. Sorry for the confusion folks.
Dumb Accident - TrevorP
Peter -

May I recommend that you read the

"Prang-how do I convince insurers" thread.
Dumb Accident - M.M
Peter,

Is this it...

You're taking a right turn onto a lesser road, the right turn happens to be halfway round a lefthand bend on the main road.

As you are part way across the opposing carriageway you realise there may be an impact and stop. This is what presents the n/s of your car to the other driver.

You are saying there is blame on his part because he was straddling the white line whereas if he'd widened his line to the kerb/verge side of his carriageway he may have slipped past your bonnet and missed you.

MM
Dumb Accident - Peter D
My front N/s wheel was on the opposing carriage way when I stopped and yes he was stradling the while line with both his O/S wheels. If he had braked and locked up whilst he was on his side of the road he would have gone straight passed my nose. He could have easily driven round my nose if his staring position had been from his lane.

Thanks for seeing the picture. Peter
Dumb Accident - Dave_TD
Hmmm, if I'm picturing this right then it sounds like you should have stopped sooner. You shouldn't have crossed the centre line until you were sure of getting across the junction safely. It's quite possible the other guy briefly saw your car halfway across the road and took it that you were blocking his way, therefore you were about to move out of it. He would have hit the brakes when it became apparent you were just sitting there... Sorry.
Dumb Accident - TrevorP
"it sounds like you should have stopped sooner"

Or, maybe, not stopped at all.

Dumb Accident - Mark (RLBS)
Peter,

Essentially you were turning right across his carriageway. Despite the fact that you saw him coming and stopped you had still encroached on his space.

It is difficult to say how far your presence caused him to cross on to your side and hit you. You would effectively have to prove that he was already on your side of the road before there was any chance of an impact. Anything else could be said to have been influenced by your presence.

However, you'll even struggle to prove that he was on your side when the impact occurred.

And bear in mind, as I said somewhere else recently, that you have to prove that events are not as they might immediately seem (the default view, if you like). That is going to be really tough.

You have the possibility that he feels it is his fault and has said as much to his insurer, you also have the possibility that he could be bluffed. Personally, I would doubt both given his composure at the scene.

It is extremely unlikely that you will avoid any blame whatsoever, and he might come after you for his uninsured losses. If I was in his position, then I would certainly do so.

If you even pick up a portion of the blame, then you will lose your NCD and probably be unable to reclaim any portion of your uninsured losses.

Sorry for the negative news, and I might be completely wrong. But that's how it looks.
Dumb Accident - Peter D
Thanks Guys.

As TrevorP Said I shouldn't stopped at all I would have been well out it.


Peter
Dumb Accident - Vin {P}
A general point that occurs to me:

Might be an idea to put a disposable camera in the glove box and in the event of an accident, BEFORE moving anything, take a few photos. At the very least you'll have some evidence...

I'll be buying one this weekend.

V
Dumb Accident - guzzler
I can picture the scene perfectly, there is a similar junction close to me. If you are waiting to turn right the traffic coming from the left, with the right of way, always cuts the corner, even though there is an area in the middle for vehicles to wait when turning right. Nobody waits there!

If you were 300mm on his side of the road, he would only need to be about 500mm on your side for the impact to be in the middle of his car. So it seems that you are both at fault.

However it would appear that the other driver was not paying attention if you were stationary and were watching him coming. Or possibly he could not see you because of the sunlight?

Unfortunately, with no independent witnesses, you're probably stuffed.

As you say, dumb accident. Best of luck.
Dumb Accident - JamesH
Might be an idea to put a disposable camera in the
glove box and in the event of an accident, BEFORE moving
anything, take a few photos. At the very least you'll
have some evidence...


Absolutely top tip. Especially in a case like this where it's not easy to describe. Peter - were your photos at the scene or taken at home? Either way better than nothing.

Also, keep the camera in the car! I've had a disposable camera in the car for the last two and a half years but took it out the other week along with all other possesions as I was getting the car ready to sell. Ended up in an accident three days later.
Grrr :(

James
Dumb Accident - No Do$h
Alternatively £30 will get you a small digital, useless for detail (that can come later when you get home) but fine for getting the general view of the location, relative positions of vehicles etc.

A tape measure, pen and paper are also pretty smart additions to the glovebox.
Dumb Accident - Ian D
Excellent advice about disposable cameras - I have had 2 accidents (not my fault) where the photos have really helped. If you have an accident (not your fault), leap out the car, ignore the other driver (unless of course they are injured) and photograph the scene. This may seen unnatural but it means the other driver is more likely to be honest and less likely to start fabricating what happened when they are sat at home two days later with the claim form. As i have said, helped me twice...

 

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