Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Mon 13 Jan 2014 13:36
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Firmbutfair

Adressing the theme of how can we use technology to the benefit of 'decent, honest hardworking Familes' (to paraphrase DC) then two items in the Birmingham Mail gave me an idea for discussion in the HJ Forum, namely those offenders associated with habitual crimes such as car theft, or dangerous driving/driving whilst disqualified could be fitted with an electronic tag that automatically imobilises any car they attempt to drive - in the same way that all modern cars are imobilised until the valid ignition key is detected/inserted by the built in security systems.

The two links below are posted as examples and to encourage you to give your support to demand the introduction of this or similar technology:

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/dudley-ma...8

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/man-arres...5

The socio-political argument might go something like this: "Whilst habitual criminals have human rights and the right to a normal family life, the general law - abiding public also have the right to a much better level of protection from the harm and distress caused by the failure of our judicial system to properly and effectively deal with these types of offender"

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Mon 13 Jan 2014 13:58
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - skidpan

offenders associated with habitual crimes such as car theft, or dangerous driving/driving whilst disqualified could be fitted with an electronic tag that automatically imobilises any car they attempt to drive - in the same way that all modern cars are imobilised until the valid ignition key is detected/inserted by the built in security systems.

How would that work. As you say the immobilser fitted to cars works in conjuction with the chip in the key normally and different manufacturers use different systems. How would a tag be made to immobilise ALL cars.

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Mon 13 Jan 2014 14:49
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Firmbutfair

Notwithstanding the technical difficulties associated with making my idea of making the 'automatic imobiliser tag' work on a wide range of modern cars already fitted with imobilisers (as required by EU law since 19??), it is dissapointing to see the following link which shows what happens to any tagging or tracking device fitted:

www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/failed-burglar...1

"The court heard <name> had agreed to take part in a police scheme to monitor his behaviour in July in an attempt to stop his repeated offending.

A gps tracker valued at £300 was fitted to him on July 7, but when police checked it on July 15, it had disappeared."

The offender has now been jailed for 18 months.

Edited by Firmbutfair on 13/01/2014 at 15:01

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Mon 13 Jan 2014 15:15
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Firmbutfair

FYI and answering my own question, here is an extract from Wikipedia on Immobilisers (yes apparently it does have 2 'm's)

"Immobilisers have been mandatory in all new cars sold in Germany since 1 January 1998, in the United Kingdom since 1 October 1998, in Finland since 1998, in Australia since 2001 and inCanada since 2007. Early models used a static code in the ignition key (or key fob) which was recognised by an RFID loop around the lock barrel and checked against the vehicle's engine control unit (ECU) for a match. If the code is unrecognised, the ECU will not allow fuel to flow and ignition to take place. Later models use rolling codes or advanced cryptography to defeat copying of the code from the key or ECU".

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Mon 13 Jan 2014 15:53
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Hamsafar

I'm sure all they would need to do is wrap the tag in aluminium foil which has a thin wire from it to an earth point - until start authorisation has succeeded.

Edited by Hamsafar on 13/01/2014 at 15:54

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Mon 13 Jan 2014 23:52
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Firmbutfair

I hestitate to remind the Forum that George Orwell's '1984' and other more recent SF novels and screenplays etc predict that we will soon all be 'chipped' like the Family Dog, regardless of our status.

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Tue 14 Jan 2014 08:42
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Hamsafar

I hestitate to remind the Forum that George Orwell's '1984' and other more recent SF novels and screenplays etc predict that we will soon all be 'chipped' like the Family Dog, regardless of our status.

The big push has started, google "masonic chip"
www.masonichip.org

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Tue 14 Jan 2014 09:52
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Andrew-T

"The court heard <name> had agreed to take part in a police scheme to monitor his behaviour in July in an attempt to stop his repeated offending.

A gps tracker valued at £300 was fitted to him on July 7, but when police checked it on July 15, it had disappeared."

Yes, I was wondering how the magic technology would prevent the wearer disabling, or simply not wearing, it - without it being actually implanted?

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Tue 14 Jan 2014 19:24
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Sofa Spud

Anyone caught driving while disqualified should be permanently banned from driving.

In fact, more use of permanent driving bans should be made for people convicted of causing death or serious injury by dangerous driving. Also, on a totting-up basis, a third driving disqualification should be a permanent one.

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Tue 14 Jan 2014 21:42
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - galileo

Anyone caught driving while disqualified should be permanently banned from driving.

In fact, more use of permanent driving bans should be made for people convicted of causing death or serious injury by dangerous driving. Also, on a totting-up basis, a third driving disqualification should be a permanent one.

What is the point if the disqualified driver keeps driving, regardless? Your proposal suggests a permanent ban after a third ban, but no realsitic plan for ensuring it works. Many offenders ignore ban after ban, they only stop when they are finally incarcerated, and start again when released.

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Wed 15 Jan 2014 00:34
Any Make or Model - Tagging for Disqualified Drivers and Car Thieves - Firmbutfair

"The court heard <name> had agreed to take part in a police scheme to monitor his behaviour in July in an attempt to stop his repeated offending.

A gps tracker valued at £300 was fitted to him on July 7, but when police checked it on July 15, it had disappeared."

Yes, I was wondering how the magic technology would prevent the wearer disabling, or simply not wearing, it - without it being actually implanted?

Yes exactly so Andrew-T, It looks like the only way of 'tagging' the habitual offender is to surgically implant the immobilising transponder. But there is now a problem that impacts his/her human rights namely that after disqualification from driving and/or release from a custodial sentence he/she would be obliged to have the immobiliser transponder implanted and from then on he/she would be unable to travel, even as a passenger, in any modern (post 1998) car or taxi without immobilising it !

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