minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage | Legal matters | Back Room Forum

Fri 14 Jun 2019 13:32

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - DieselMan1966

Hi All

A little advice, I was involved in a minor accident recently when I was entering a roundabout and hit an on coming car in its passenger side.

when I was approaching the junction, I checked and was aware of the vehicle and I assumed it was leaving to go straight ahead as the driver was not signalling.

So I entered the roundabout after checking all around, could not see the vehicle anywhere so, still thinking it has gone straight ahead, only to discover I hit the car on the passenger side.

I have checked the footage and there is no indication from the other parties vehicle. I have submitted this along with all the other required information to my insurers stating that I am not admitting liability as there was no clear indication from the other driver, I am curious to know if this will be recorded as a fault or non-fault claim.

Also if the other driver does not admit liability will this go down as 50/50?

Thanks

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Fri 14 Jun 2019 14:01

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - bathtub tom

I would have thought that as you were entering the roundabout, the onus is on you to give way to the right. As you collided with the other vehicle, it's apparent you didn't give way.

I suspect the fact the other vehicle wasn't indicating will have no bearing on the accident.

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Fri 14 Jun 2019 14:15

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - alan1302

Agree with poster above - you drove into the side of a vehicle that was already on the roundabout - I expect you will be held 100% to blame for this.

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Fri 14 Jun 2019 17:42

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - concrete

You have my sympathy, but I also must agree with previous posters. Indicating is useful but if you are entering a roundabout it is up to you to ensure it is safe to do so. Clearly having driven into the side of a vehicle you have not taken sufficient care. Look at the dash cam footage again. This time try to be the driver of the other vehicle involved. If he is already on the roundabout then he would expect you to give way. Sorry but you must accept responsibility for your mistakes and learn from them. A life lesson where no-one was hurt thankfully.

Cheers Concrete

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Fri 14 Jun 2019 21:32

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - gordonbennet

Hitting a vehicle which was already on the roundabout on its nearside is almost certainly going to be you at fault.

I have the greatest sympathy, if people actually used their indicators properly at junctions all of our lives would be easier and traffic would flow better, sadly the standard of driving is dropping faster than a lead weight so correct indications are never going to happen again, it's got the point now if you indicate on a roundabout (together with half decent road positioning) and see an old fellow driving a tanker wave a thankyou, because you've allowed him to make or maintain progress, it might well be me acknowledging you.

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Fri 14 Jun 2019 22:49

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - FP

I've little to add to previous postings.

As far as I'm aware, signalling is a matter of courtesy and is not mandatory, and the legal position is that signalling or the lack of it should always be assumed, on the part of other drivers, to be a suspect way of showing a driver's intentions.

Don't take any action like pulling out from a side-road until the front wheels of the other car show definitely where it's going.

The lack of reliable signalling nowadays is a sad testament to the current "I'll look after myself and sod everyone else" mentality. What was the oft-quoted story about the BMW driver who, when asked why he never signalled, said, "Well, I know where I'm going."

Edited by FP on 14/06/2019 at 22:55

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Sat 15 Jun 2019 23:19

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - focussed

I've little to add to previous postings.

As far as I'm aware, signalling is a matter of courtesy and is not mandatory, and the legal position is that signalling or the lack of it should always be assumed, on the part of other drivers, to be a suspect way of showing a driver's intentions.

Don't take any action like pulling out from a side-road until the front wheels of the other car show definitely where it's going.

The lack of reliable signalling nowadays is a sad testament to the current "I'll look after myself and sod everyone else" mentality. What was the oft-quoted story about the BMW driver who, when asked why he never signalled, said, "Well, I know where I'm going."

I'm sorry to have to correct your impression of the use of signals but signalling is not just a matter of courtesy.

UK highway code rule 103

Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians of your intended actions. You should always

give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
cancel them after use

By using signals you are giving out information to other road users as to your intentions, and receiving information via their signals from other road users as to their intentions.

At least that is how the system is supposed to work, but the receiving of signals degenerates into a second-guessing game as to what the hell the other driver's intentions are.

There is a traffic offence in France of not signaling your intentions properly - clearly an offence that is never prosecuted if you have ever driven in France!

If the authorities were to really have a blitz on that they could clear France's national debt in 6 months from the fines!

Edited by focussed on 15/06/2019 at 23:28

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Sun 16 Jun 2019 00:51

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - FP

"I'm sorry to have to correct your impression of the use of signals but signalling is not just a matter of courtesy.

UK highway code rule 103

Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians of your intended actions. You should always..."

As I'm sure you know, the Highway Code uses the word "should" to mean that the road-user is advised to do or not do something. It uses the word "must" when there is legal force behind the action concerned.

So I repeat that signalling is not mandatory, otherwise the word "must" would have been used.

I am not disputing that signalling is a good thing and helpful to other road-users; traffic would flow a lot better and people would be less stressed if it was done by everyone.

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Mon 17 Jun 2019 13:38

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - Gibbo_Wirral

Roundabouts etiquette has gone for good now.

Every single day I see cars take the "racing line" and use both lanes of a roundabout when going straight on.

I've seen them almost hit cars who are in the correct lane closest to the roundabout, or almost run into cars who have done similar to what the OP did and pulled out assuming they were going right but couldn't be bothered to indicate.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 17/06/2019 at 13:39

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Mon 17 Jun 2019 17:43

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - concrete

I agree Gibbo. I used to love my mates old Mazda diesel pickup. It was a site truck and had welded steel bumpers and surrounds, welded sheet steel platform at the rear with a tow bar. The thing was indestructible. Also being non-turbo it was 0-60 in three months. I loved going round roundabouts in the correct lane and signalling my intentions. The number of cars that screeched to halt when they realised I was travelling round the roundabout and they wanted to cut across the inside lane. One or two did come a cropper. Their faces were a picture when I stopped at the spot then offered to call the police to sort out the blame. Mucho swearing before beating it in a hurry when I pretended to call the police. The best fun was the Periferique around Paris. 8 lanes going crazy. As soon as I saw my turn off I simply indicated and started to move, didn't give a monkeys. The shiny BMW, Mercs etc used to avoid me like the plague. Ah! The simple pleasures in life.

Cheers Concrete

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Tue 18 Jun 2019 02:33

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - Leif

"I'm sorry to have to correct your impression of the use of signals but signalling is not just a matter of courtesy.

UK highway code rule 103

Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians of your intended actions. You should always..."

As I'm sure you know, the Highway Code uses the word "should" to mean that the road-user is advised to do or not do something. It uses the word "must" when there is legal force behind the action concerned.

So I repeat that signalling is not mandatory, otherwise the word "must" would have been used.

I am not disputing that signalling is a good thing and helpful to other road-users; traffic would flow a lot better and people would be less stressed if it was done by everyone.

I believe if you pull out while an oncoming car is signalling left, and they do not turn left, you are to blame, for the reasons above. Like most here I sympathise with the AoP.

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Thu 20 Jun 2019 00:24

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - nick62

I believe if you pull out while an oncoming car is signalling left, and they do not turn left, you are to blame, ..................

My old man used to say, "if their left-hand indicator is on, unless you saw them turn it on, assume they are going straight ahead"

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Fri 21 Jun 2019 23:01

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - focussed

"So I repeat that signalling is not mandatory, otherwise the word "must" would have been used"

Audi or BMW driver?

I don't much care what you think -But I know that if you take your driving test and neglect to signal your intentions in good time as per the highway code you will not pass.

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Sat 22 Jun 2019 14:19

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - RafflesNH

Interesting. I remember that issue in my driving test lessons very well. Has anyone tested this in court, I wonder?

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Sat 22 Jun 2019 21:11

minor accident on roundabout/dashcam footage - FP

Focussed - I am neither an Audi nor a BMW driver. If you read my posts in this thread you'll see I'm in favour of signalling and I do actually signal.

My previous post was a attempt to clarify the law. I'm not surprised if candidates for the driving test are expected to signal. Clearly, advice in the Highway Code (indicated by the word "should") is part of best practice, but it doesn't prove that the force of the law is behind it.

I'm at a loss as to why your post is so bad-tempered.

Edited by FP on 22/06/2019 at 21:13

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