....You used too much throttle....
Yes, although the wheels also spun in second gear at tickover.
As an experiment, I booted it with the traction control on and the car would not rev past 2,000rpm - something to do with the engine management software, presumably.
It was quite a long layby - a stretch of 'old road' I think - and a Fiesta slithered past me while I was marooned.
I could see the driver was struggling to keep going, but he managed it.
My old diesel Focus always felt nose heavy - cast iron block, nothing much at the back.
The CC3 has a lighter engine and more weight - the roof gubbins - at the back.
It feels better balanced, but I reckon this more even weight distribution has made it less able in snow.
I had been away, so there was also a fair bit of luggage in the boot.
Bring back rear wheel drive - couple of bags of spuds in the boot of the Cortina and you could climb a mountain. :)
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My car is very well behaved in the snow and ice. Can't be the driver.
:-)
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CRV managed great in the snow - and didn't think the rear wheel drive cut in. Guy down the street in his BMW X5 didn't fare so well - tyres far too fat to do anything in the snow. neighbour helped pull him out with his Micra! Wish I'd recorded it on my camcorder - could have got £250 from Harry Hill for it!
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Bravo actually did pretty well in the snow and ice despite 225/45 17s with summer tread pattern (Bridgestone Potenzas).
Only time it really struggled was on Mon 21st, when it had rained in the night and all the part-melted slush had then re-frozen. I had to get up the hill to my parents' house, which is about 500 yards of 1 in 15 or thereabouts, and which was more or less entirely packed ice.
Took 20 mins and much flashing of lights for ESP and traction control as we crabbed our way up - gradient too steep to move off on clutch alone, despite 225 lbs ft. Hill holder was great - didn't slip backwards once.
Plus we were the only car to make it up the hill - the road at the bottom was almost gridlocked with cars that had got down but couldn't get back up.
This was despite much barracking from B Jr as 4 year-old back seat driver: "It's not working, Daddy!" Patience, child.
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My Rio is terrible in the snow and ice on its original 'hankook' tires.
pulling away even on slush wheel spins with the engine idle in 1st,2nd so I had to use 3rd gear then once moving drop back into 2nd.
stopping is also fun. just touching the brakes locks the rear wheels then the ABS kicks in.
I can't wait until these standard tires are scrubbed to get some Michelins fitted.
I have been told there is a world of difference.
The weight distribution doesn't help when empty either, 800kg over the front wheels and 440kg over the rear wheels.
I believe that BMW are now supplying some of their new cars with Hankook tires.... heaven help us if that is true.
dreadful tires.
The wifes Astra 2.0l Diesel turbo drove over the same roads with no wheel spin at all.
Even had to try hard to get the traction control to come on.
Edited by Webmaster on 31/12/2009 at 02:08
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The only problem I've had in my 2 litre Mk 1 Focus was getting temporarily stuck on 20th December on a steepish uphill slope in the Lincolnshire Wolds. On the flat it takes all road conditions in its stride.
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Avant>> Got some winter tyres for the FRONT
Avant. With the greatest of all possible respect, you are NUTS! You are driving a car that is stuck to the road at the front end, but the rear end is loose.
Just you wait until the back end overtakes the front.
You think that putting new tyres on the front (but not back) is dangerous; just try making them winter tyres.
There's a good argument you do not comply with construction and use requirements.
Edited by Mapmaker on 30/12/2009 at 11:56
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You fit winter tyres either on all 4 wheels or just don't fit them.
There are many YouTube videos to show what happens if you fit winter tyres only 2 wheels.
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i cannot figure the sense of moving off in higher gears, I do not, I use the gears quite normally, & I have no difficulty in driving in poor conditions, incl on "sheet ice" recently.
All one does is spin the wheels FASTER therefore inducing more slippage.
now staying in a higher gear once progress is established makes sense, one is generating less torque therefore less likely to break traction and possibly skid.
Cheers
M
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....You used too much throttle....
Yes.
To move off engage first gear and ease foot off clutch pedal, do not put foot on accelerator. Let the car do the work (the ECU) will control the revs. If one of the wheels starts to spin then use the brake pedal gently to control the differential / wheel spin to gain traction/ drive through the wheel that is not spinning/ gripping.
Do everything gently.
An off road driving course will explain what the differential does and how to get grip and maintain control.
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Limited slip differential
You'll notice problems with differentials in certain situations, such as on ice or when off-road. Most vehicles are equipped with open differential, which means the same amount of torque is applied to all the wheels. Traction is one factor that determines how much torque is applied to the wheels - in low traction situations, the amount of torque is limited to the greatest amount that will not cause the wheels to slip. So even if just one wheel has poor traction, the torque will be reduced to all the wheels. Thus, if you give the vehicle more gas when wheels start spinning they will only spin faster - which is bad in icy or off-road conditions.
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My father got stuck on some ice on the track leading to our house. V gentle incline but enough on very smooth ice.
I cleared a track on one side but even though he had one drive wheel touching tarmac the opther wheel just span madly and no power was going to the wheel with traction and he went nowhere.
This was a R75 with "snow control" setting on the auto box.
I am puzzled, can anyone explain?
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The car has a differential that allows the wheels to rotate at slightly different speeds when going round corners, otherwise they would be constantly squealing, as the outer wheel will spin slightly faster than the inner wheel. What you needed was a differential lock, common on four wheel drives. This allows both wheels to rotate at the same speed irrespective of whether one wheel has traction or not, giving you forward momentum.
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This was a R75 with "snow control" setting on the auto box. I am puzzled can anyone explain?
About the only thing that would have helped in the sitiuation you describe would have been a limited slip differential, that would have only allowed one wheel to slip slightly more than the other, a normal differential will just leave the spinning wheel free to turn.
If you jack one driven wheel up and whilst in neutral turn that wheel you will find it turns quite freely, if you do that with a limited slip diff it's very hard to turn because of the pre loading built into the design.
I haven't got the strength in my arms to turn the Hilux diff like this, thats limited slip, not a locked diff.
A diff lock as found on some trucks, 4x4's etc will obviously lock the differential solid giving full drive to both wheels, not to be used unless needed in slippery conditions, too easy to wind the transmission up and break something expensive.
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Used the diff lock on agricultural tractors a couple of times - very effective.
You can't steer because both driven wheels are locked and turning at exactly the same speed.
Works well in a situation where you need that extra bit of traction for a few metres to get through a sticky patch.
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Since the torque will take the path of least resistance. Light braking can provide enough resistance on the spinning wheel to prevent it spinning and then get the wheel with traction to move the car.
Some cars, the Citroen Xantia had the hand brake connected to the driving / front wheels to enable some manual diff-lock in snow and mud etc..
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The audi 90 quattro I used to have had diff locks, manually lockable. I parked in a field with a sloping entrance to go for a walk. When I came back, it was raining, and the field was that horrible sticky clay that sticks to your boots. But I locked the diffs and the car just pulled itself out of the field effortlessly. Very impressive!
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My car's rubbish ... >>
It should be in good company with this rubbish car then:
a-popov.livejournal.com/254497.html
Edited by jbif on 30/12/2009 at 17:24
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www.snow-chains.co.uk/products.asp?deptid=297&u=DH...H
Just bought some good year snow chains. Just type your tyre size in.
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Mk2 Mondeo 1.8 Zetec with 215/40/17 tyres on it, drove lovely up some quite steep snowy hills, only a steep hill with thick snow at the bottom defeated it.
Need to turn the T/C off to get moving then hit the switch at about 5 mph and it drives beautifully, seemingly it applies the brake on the spinning wheel and the torque goes to the grippy one.
ABS was a godsend on a slippy downhill that had a few cars heading to the kerb.
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Ifithelps, when we get some snow can I answer your OP?
Until then....
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Drove one of the Espaces with the back seats out to pick up some flooring in the snowfall before Christmas - quite an eye-opener as to how bad it is unladen in the snow, and to my driving ability, or lack of.
On the plus side, the flooring centre had a huge empty carpark which hadn't been gritted :)
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b308,
I'm backing the Maxi with its fwd and narrow tyres to do well.
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>>I'm backing the Maxi with its fwd and narrow tyres to do well
You'll want to keep it away from all that salt though...?
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I wonder how much how the clutch reacts effects driving in snow., iI.e does a clutch which is fiece in its action cause a car to be difficult to drive in the snow ?
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Clutch control is critical when starting in snow and ice. Basically you want as few revs as possible but not to let out the clutch with any jerk or you risk losing traction and sitting there with spinning wheels.
Ideally you feed the clutch in gently and see if the wheels spin: if they do, disengage the clutch and try again...
Of course, if you have no sensitivity to driving and don't know what spinning wheels feel (and sound!) like.. this is all a waste of words.
I learned to drive on snow and ice in a 1955 Austin A30 - no power narrow wheels and winter tyres .. and a 1953 Rover 75: no traction on hard packed snow.
Edited by madf on 31/12/2009 at 10:18
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Clutch control is critical when starting in snow and ice. Basically you want as few.....
SQ
Yes driving is a skill.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 31/12/2009 at 14:31
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The Berlingo is pretty good, but then with nice thin 175/70 R 14 wheels, and Gislaved Nordfrosts on all four corners, it ought to be.
I gave it a good testing yesterday, driving 100 miles or so to Inverness Airport, waiting around for a few hours to see if the airport would reopen, and then giving up and driving home. Other then a bit of sliding when cornering on some slushy bits, no problems.
I also had the unusual experience of being thrown out of a 24 Hour Tesco at closing time (6.00 pm on Hogmanay, apparently) and, probably, being the last customer to visit the gents in said shop in 2009 - (when one is about to set off for a long journey across the frozen Highlands, one wants to feel comfortable.)
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tyro ,how do Nordfrosts compare price wise to michelin for example and are they easy to get hold of ? currently running on nokian w ,another very good tyre and comparable to your nordfrost ,payed £48.60 from mytyres and £5 each to fit and balance = very happy
it was the only place that had any though
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Just had some proper snow to try it out - at last! I must say it (and I) coped very well. It's a RWD Merc c-class, 3 on board - so plenty of weight of driven wheels - put the auto box in (W)inter mode & all was well. It & I put down the power delicately when/where required, saw the ESP flash a few times. Ordinary 'summer' type tyres - although they're due for replacement & not much (above) legal minimum.
Rather enjoyable all in all!
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"Clutch control is critical when starting in snow and ice."
Unless its auto!
My Freelander 2 auto with snow mode & 4WD & HDC has been fantastic & faultless in the snow. Needless to say I have had to tow a few stranded motorists up steep hills!
Doesn't seem to put a foot wrong in the snow & you can floor the accelerator & the electronics do the rest. Grip & acceleration are astonishing & its the first 4x4 that has been as much fun as my old Pandad 4x4. need much more snow & lots deeper to make it real fun! as so far even steep hills have been no challenge.
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>>tyro ,how do Nordfrosts compare price wise to michelin for example and are they easy to get hold of ?
I order through my local fitter, and since he is in the trade, he seems to be able to get hold of them without too much difficulty. I can't give you exact costs, but they are pretty similar to Michelin Energy.
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I've read lots of these threads/posts on modern cars in snow and I guess we're mostly thinking the same but here is our experience this winter.
Our newly bought C3 1.4 diesel with its light weight and narrow tyres is a pleasure to drive in snow. Within reason you can go anywhere sensible without problems.
Our Mondeo III Petrol Estate on the other hand is pretty poor... no doubt due to its weight, length and wide low profile tyres.
Sadly the C5 (to replace the Mondeo) has arrived as the snow disapeared so I can't judge if the "Snowmotion" logo engraved down by the gear lever is justified.
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My Peugeot 406 diesel was just fine in the snow and ice. Getting up any steep incline was easy using just the idle of the engine, same for going down any steep hills.
A neighbour of my dad's gave up using his fancy BMW 3 series in the snow so asked to borrow my dad's car instead, a 16 year old Rover 216 estate!
Bit of a come down for him but at least he was able to get to work!
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My car is near useless traction-wise in the snow - E90 BMW 330d
Take the old 306 diesel out in the snow, much more suited.
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I'm getting a bit miffed. We've had pretty much NO snow on the Staffordshire/Cheshire border. Boo.
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I've not had any problems but a handy tip if you have an auto is to slip it into neutral when braking for a junction
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I'm getting a bit miffed. We've had pretty much NO snow on the Staffordshire/Cheshire border. Boo.
You are welcome to ours, about 4 inches of snow over ice, or where driven on, an inch of polished ice.
Edited by Old Navy on 03/01/2010 at 13:11
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