Report suggests buyers of polluting vehicles should subsidise electric cars
www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/09/petrol-an...s
Glad I won't be buying another car!
Yet another method of transferring wealth from the poor (and to be honest, most of us) - who can't afford EVs - to the rich (who make up the vast majority of EV owners).
Class. In yesterday's Telegraph there was an article written by someone who is a senior person at an EV firm who said they are nowhere near as 'green' as they are portrayed by the media and governments.
And no-one from the powers-that-be have STILL addressed the VERY significant issues over both paying for, siting and the logsitics around charging facilities, especially for the large percentage of the population who live in flats, homes without a driveway or works in places with less than one car parking space per staff member who has to drive a car to work (which is to say 99% of us).
I dispair sometime at how inept people who supposedly either 'lead or represent' us in politics or who are in positions of authority and influence from the advisor, civil service and big business side.
They have no clue whatsoever, or are just in it to boost their own positions and/or wealth/power.
You need to look beyond the now, this can be done by looking into the past.
10 years ago you could buy a Nissan Leaf with 90 miles range and a charging system which would take hours to charge the car.
Over the next 10 years the current Tesla offer of 300 mile range and 500 miles in an hour charging will become the norm and will probably have been surpassed. Once you get that charging really isn't an issue.
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Over the next 10 years the current Tesla offer of 300 mile range and 500 miles in an hour charging will become the norm and will probably have been surpassed.
At the rate of tech as it is with batteries at the moment, I doubt that will be possible in 20 years, the ideas put forward and the problems they need to overcome are not as easy as is made out
till then, petrol and diesel will become more efficient with fuel consumption lower than the new cars give, also being less polluting than they are now if not zero which I gather is the aim
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In the last 10 years the cost per Kwh for batteries has fallen by 85%, and the energy density has improved by approx 300%.
EVs have gone from being an expensive minority purchase to a competitive choice for many. It is unlikely that ICE will match future EV improvements - it is a very mature technology where any progress is going to be hard won and marginal.
Transition to (say) 80%+ EV will take 10-20 years as existing vehicles are replaced by EV - the life of existing vehicles is 12-15 years. Not all replacements will be EV.
Improvements to infrastructure do not need a "big bang" change - it will need a sensible plan to add 3-6% to existing generation capacity each year for the next 15-20 years. In principle entirely feasible - although you could reasonably question the ability of both the government and energy companies to deliver even realistic expectations!
Filling stations will become scarcer, emissions will increasingly limit city and urban travel, falling demand will limit development and increase ICE production costs, EV costs will fall as volume increase and technology improvements. A tipping point may be as little as 4 years away.
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No one has yet said how everyone else will afford these expensive vehicles, or be able to afford or fit the chargers at home if they live in a flat or a house that doesn't have a driveway, or an office that has only enough car parking spaces for 10-20% of employees.
The improvement in charging and batteries won't be sustained, never mind because the reources used to make them are very scarce and in heavy demand, plus new tech always has a 'boom' period as regards improvements, then it levels off.
I'm not saying this will all happen or don't wish it to, but I storngly believe the powers-that-be have got it wrong BIG TIME in accelerating the growth of EV tech, because it's only going to benefit the very wealthiest at the expense of everyone else.
At the moment, EVs account for about 1% of ALL car (let alone vans and trucks) on the road. It's easy to get charging when you only have a few tens of thousands of vehicles and loads of subsidies. We can't just go from near zero to 50% without significant negative consequences for those at the bottom of society and those many in the middle who don't have the finances or ability to just 'get' all this as if they were buying groceries.
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Over the next 10 years the current Tesla offer of 300 mile range and 500 miles in an hour charging will become the norm and will probably have been surpassed. Once you get that charging really isn't an issue.
And the porcine aerial display team will all be flying electric aircraft.
ps. I've been proved wrong before.
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Guardian promoting reverse socialism. Poor owners of old thirsty ice cars to subsidise rich owners of whizzy BEV cars. Interesting concept. Like taxing the homeless to fund the rich in their mansions.. Very progressive Im sure.
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<< 500 miles in an hour charging will become the norm and will probably have been surpassed. Once you get that charging really isn't an issue. >>
Sorry, I don't buy that. Injecting charge into a battery at that rate will call for massive costly cabling in lots of places, unless someone comes up with a high-density microwave method or something very clever. Plus the need for an associated source of heavy current.
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<< 500 miles in an hour charging will become the norm and will probably have been surpassed. Once you get that charging really isn't an issue. >>
Sorry, I don't buy that. Injecting charge into a battery at that rate will call for massive costly cabling in lots of places, unless someone comes up with a high-density microwave method or something very clever. Plus the need for an associated source of heavy current.
A step up transformer could do that with a low Voltage supply, as used for jump starters on cars, it can use the remaining power of the battery to give enough current to jumpstart the engine using step up transformer/s and a capacitor so it doesn't need a battery
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A step up transformer could do that with a low Voltage supply, as used for jump starters on cars, it can use the remaining power of the battery to give enough current to jumpstart the engine using step up transformer/s and a capacitor so it doesn't need a battery
Voltage and current are different things and I don't see how step-up transformers help with the problem of current capacity of the national grid. We already use them to send HVAC long-distances, increasing that voltage will mean dealing with physics issues like skin effect and possibly current pylon insulator disc stacks, and substations/switchgear would need to be re-built or altered to accommodate the increased potential.
The grid was red-lining during the Beast from the East, and a lot of "Green" electrical supply only homes and "Green" cars have been sold since then...
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A step up transformer could do that with a low Voltage supply, as used for jump starters on cars, it can use the remaining power of the battery to give enough current to jumpstart the engine using step up transformer/s and a capacitor so it doesn't need a battery
Voltage and current are different things and I don't see how step-up transformers help with the problem of current capacity of the national grid. We already use them to send HVAC long-distances, increasing that voltage will mean dealing with physics issues like skin effect and possibly current pylon insulator disc stacks, and substations/switchgear would need to be re-built or altered to accommodate the increased potential.
The grid was red-lining during the Beast from the East, and a lot of "Green" electrical supply only homes and "Green" cars have been sold since then...
And solar power has been minimal in winter on cloudy days .. And this "summer" as well.
. Lots of large scale battery systems needed to save power for cold still winter nights when there is no solar or wind power. Then connect several million EVs to the Grid all charging at night .
So peak demand at night will coincide with minimum Green Energy being produced... A recipe for blackouts...
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And solar power has been minimal in winter on cloudy days .. And this "summer" as well.
. Lots of large scale battery systems needed to save power for cold still winter nights when there is no solar or wind power. Then connect several million EVs to the Grid all charging at night .
So peak demand at night will coincide with minimum Green Energy being produced... A recipe for blackouts...
Slightly off topic but the big boys (Not car firms, energy firms) .are starting to take note of hydrogen
I believe it's been approved to be blended into the gas supply in the same way ethanol is to petrol. (Waste of arable land, and results in yet more monocropping, if you ask me but it keeps some bureaucrat happy)
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Assuming that EVs will disadvantage poorer parts of the community is almost certainly wrong.
Short-term - next 5-10 years - ICE cars will continue to be available new and will likely come down in price as designs, tooling etc are fully depreciated. Most with serious cash constraints will buy s/h anyway and ICE cars are likely to be available for the next 20 years +.
Over that period it is probable EVs will come down in price with technical improvements and volume increases.
There are 38m cars registered in the UK. Assuming very simplistically that those under three years old were bought new (approx 7m), then 31m are cars bought s/h. Thus the price of new cars is somewhat academic for 80% of us, and almost completely irrelevant for those who never buy a new car.
The key barrier to the transition is that upfront costs of EV may remain relatively higher, but benefit from lower running costs. This challenges a mind set which looks ony at initial cost, not whole life costs.
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The key barrier to the transition is that upfront costs of EV may remain relatively higher, but benefit from lower running costs. This challenges a mind set which looks ony at initial cost, not whole life costs.
Whole life costs could be a lot higher than made out if Electricity charges go up as they become more affordable, less fuel sales due to EV takeup, government will use it as an excuse to increase RFL and Electric prices
so I doubt they will be cheaper to run after a few years of use imo
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"There are 38m cars registered in the UK. Assuming very simplistically that those under three years old were bought new (approx 7m), then 31m are cars bought s/h. Thus the price of new cars is somewhat academic for 80% of us, and almost completely irrelevant for those who never buy a new car."
Eh? Apart from pre-registered and ex-demonstrators all cars were once bought new. And the price of a second-hand car is influenced by its new price or current cost of its equivalent.
I think that the major problem is not producing the electricity but distributing it; possibly not so much nationally but at a local level. I read about a block of 48 flats in Melbourne: not only is the whole area at the limit of its substations’ capacity but the block infrastructure will not support more than 2 or 3 chargers.
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I think that the major problem is not producing the electricity but distributing it; possibly not so much nationally but at a local level. I read about a block of 48 flats in Melbourne: not only is the whole area at the limit of its substations’ capacity but the block infrastructure will not support more than 2 or 3 chargers.
That is one limitation. The other is satisfying the expectation of travellers to recharge quickly at the roadside. Filling with fuel is quick; filling with electricity cannot be anything like as fast because of the power lost as heat in the cabling. Unless massive (=expensive) cabling is installed - or perhaps superconducting, if further imagination is permitted.
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People have asked about the power infrastructure in the UK and if it can cope if everyone changed to electric.
I am more concerned about the substations and how they will handle every house drawing 60 to 100 amps for several hours at a time.
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The average all electric house spends ~ £1500 pa on power - at 15p/Kwh this is 10,000 Kwh. This hypothetical house uses ~ 30 Kwh per day - at 240v the average current draw is therefore ~ 5 amps per hour.
Domestic premises are usually fitted with 60-100 amp supply fuses as (a) power supply needs to cover periods of maximum use - eg: oven+cooker+washing machine+kettle etc at the same time, and (b) to protect the power supply cabling.
To charge an EV to cover say 10k pa would require a supply of 3-4000 Kwh - less than half what a house already uses.
Some properties will have fast chargers, others may rely on a 13amp domestic socket, and charging may be spread during the day or night. What is clear is with a realistic range of 200 miles, most EV owners would charge their cars only once or twice per week.
I agree that in some areas there will be stresses place on the distribution network - cabling and substations. Effective planning can easily identify those bits of the network under greatest stress and upgrade accordingly.
It is a 20 year project, not an immediate catastrophic issue. Suggesting so is simply unnceccesary scare mongering.
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The average all electric house spends ~ £1500 pa on power - at 15p/Kwh this is 10,000 Kwh. This hypothetical house uses ~ 30 Kwh per day - at 240v the average current draw is therefore ~ 5 amps per hour.
Nit-pick - what do you mean, 'amps per hour' ? I get your calculation, 5 amps averaged over the whole day, perhaps varying between close to zero and 15-20 amps at peak times, or about a couple of kettles-worth.
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It is a 20 year project, not an immediate catastrophic issue. Suggesting so is simply unnceccesary scare mongering.
The only problem is that it will probably take 20 years for the government to work out what to do! LOL
From a technical point of view there is no reason that all cars can't be electric - the technology already exists and looking at the range of cars coming out the manufactuerers are already going down that path.
As well as cars going electric, heating and cooking supplies will need to convert to electric as well from natutal gas.
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It is a 20 year project, not an immediate catastrophic issue. Suggesting so is simply unnceccesary scare mongering.
The only problem is that it will probably take 20 years for the government to work out what to do! LOL
From a technical point of view there is no reason that all cars can't be electric - the technology already exists and looking at the range of cars coming out the manufactuerers are already going down that path.
As well as cars going electric, heating and cooking supplies will need to convert to electric as well from natutal gas.
Changing everything over to electric in 20-30 years is madness (see my other comments as to why). 50-100, maybe.
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The average all electric house spends ~ £1500 pa on power - at 15p/Kwh this is 10,000 Kwh. This hypothetical house uses ~ 30 Kwh per day - at 240v the average current draw is therefore ~ 5 amps per hour.
Domestic premises are usually fitted with 60-100 amp supply fuses as (a) power supply needs to cover periods of maximum use - eg: oven+cooker+washing machine+kettle etc at the same time, and (b) to protect the power supply cabling.
To charge an EV to cover say 10k pa would require a supply of 3-4000 Kwh - less than half what a house already uses.
Some properties will have fast chargers, others may rely on a 13amp domestic socket, and charging may be spread during the day or night. What is clear is with a realistic range of 200 miles, most EV owners would charge their cars only once or twice per week.
I agree that in some areas there will be stresses place on the distribution network - cabling and substations. Effective planning can easily identify those bits of the network under greatest stress and upgrade accordingly.
It is a 20 year project, not an immediate catastrophic issue. Suggesting so is simply unnceccesary scare mongering.
Working on averages gives misleading results - it's peak loads that cause the issues
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Well if it's a 20year project then don't bother. Because in 20 years the whole technology will end up being obsolete. It would be like us today building betamax vcr factories. Maybe we will be able to buy a "Mr Fusion" of our own and make cabling and generator infrastructure a thing you see in a museum. Who knows?
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Working on averages gives misleading results - it's peak loads that cause the issues
It could be interesting between 5 and 7 pm when the cooker, kettle and the 9 Kw shower is being used and then someone comes home and plugs the car in.
The 60 amp main fuse will be under pressure as well as the local grid.
Just don't mention night store heating!
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And who's going to pay several Grand for the replacement EV battery pack when they become useless after 7-15 years? Especially when other mechanicals, such as the brakes, suspension, etec etc STILL have to be replaced periodically?
ICE car's engines normally slowly wear out, and thus normally don't need a complete replacement all at the same time and at huge expense.
Battery tech is scarce, charging tech even more so and cannot be installed for many who live in a flat or terraced house.
Who's going to pay for every street light and car park to have an EV charging point?
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And who's going to pay several Grand for the replacement EV battery pack when they become useless after 7-15 years? Especially when other mechanicals, such as the brakes, suspension, etec etc STILL have to be replaced periodically?
ICE car's engines normally slowly wear out, and thus normally don't need a complete replacement all at the same time and at huge expense.
Battery tech is scarce, charging tech even more so and cannot be installed for many who live in a flat or terraced house.
Who's going to pay for every street light and car park to have an EV charging point?
Do you know what the long term failure rate of batteries is?
I don't but very few have needed replacement during their normal 8-year warranty and most car manufacturers don't obstruct the fitting of replacement cells rather than the whole battery, Peugeot being the exception.
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Battery packs typically degrade over time and do not suffer complete failure - really just like ICE engines and drivetrains where after 7-15 years/100-200k miles major failures even with reasonable servicing become probable.
Battery tech is evolving - in the last 20 years several different technologies have been plausible - NiCad, lead acid, zinc air, sodium nickel chloride etc - although lithium is currently the element of choice. You need a very deep understanding (which I don't have) of the subject to rule out EVs on the basis of battery tech.
Charging may be on street, but initially more likely in supermarkets, service stations, work, hotels, car parks etc. Providing charging points will be essential to attract customers.
Charging on street or in apartment blocks will likely come later in the transition. At some point the availability or lack of charging will influence property prices. So expect new up market apartment blocks to have recharging points as standard, retrofits in higher end apartments, charging points installed as part of major power upgrades on street.
It does not need every lamp post to be upgraded immediately.
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Batter pack longevity....
I posed this question to a good friend of mine who was a senior electronic engineer for an aerospace / defence company and still works in electronics in a senior capacity. He has a home made battery store at home taking power from his solar panels and storing them for evening use and from off peak power as well for use during peak times.
He moans about battery degradation in phones as we all do.
He understands cars perform better because of very sophisticated battery management and some if not all manufacturers using larger capacity batteries than advertised.
This results in a battery never being fully charged or fully depleted, improving the life of the battery. Also active cooling of the battery helps longevity.
Cars will switch banks used so all of them get used over time. For example the car may use bank 1 at the start of one journey then bank 2 for the next and so forth, averaging out usage across all batteries.
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www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2020/05/KellyDecar...f
The interesting part of this article is
The power pack for a Tesla weighs half a tonne and occupies much of the floor pan of the car: for the same 600-km range in a petrol car, you would need 48 litres of petrol, weighing just 36 kg. And the size of the battery means that they require huge quantities of materials in their manufacture. If we replace all of the UK vehicle fleet with EVs, and assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation batteries, we would need the following materials:
207,900 tonnes of cobalt – just under twice the annual global production;
264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate – three quarters of the world’s production;
at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium – nearly the entire world production of neodymium;
2,362,500 tonnes of copper – more than half the world’s production in 2018.
And this is just for the UK.
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The interesting part of this article is The power pack for a Tesla weighs half a tonne and occupies much of the floor pan of the car:
Well done, Robert J - this aspect has been obvious to me for some time, but most of the optimists expect science will always find an answer. Like many new human activities and inventions, all may be fine while a minority indulge. When everyone wants one, things may become difficult or impossible.
And then there was Concorde. And airships (tho some nutters are suggesting those again).
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www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2020/05/KellyDecar...f The interesting part of this article is The power pack for a Tesla weighs half a tonne and occupies much of the floor pan of the car: for the same 600-km range in a petrol car, you would need 48 litres of petrol, weighing just 36 kg. And the size of the battery means that they require huge quantities of materials in their manufacture. If we replace all of the UK vehicle fleet with EVs, and assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation batteries, we would need the following materials: 207,900 tonnes of cobalt – just under twice the annual global production; 264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate – three quarters of the world’s production; at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium – nearly the entire world production of neodymium; 2,362,500 tonnes of copper – more than half the world’s production in 2018. And this is just for the UK.
There is something seriously wrong with those stats..
2,362,500 tonnes of copper.. I assume a year as it is compered to world annual outputs...
In 2019 we bought approx 365k commercial vehicles and 2.3Million new cars: approx 2.7 million vehicles - average weight of copper per vehicle - if all EVs.. 0.875tonnes
Not credible.
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Do you know what the long term failure rate of batteries is?
I don't but very few have needed replacement during their normal 8-year warranty and most car manufacturers don't obstruct the fitting of replacement cells rather than the whole battery, Peugeot being the exception.
It's not just the failure rate, but the widely known fact that as batteries age, they lose output, and thus (in the case of cars) range. ICE engines don't in the same manner, as previously explained.
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There seems to be an inability to accept that technology and material constraints will move on from the current status quo
History demonstrates that rapid progress is possible - even in electricity generation over the last 20 years:
- coal has fallen from ~ 30% to 2%
- nuclear has fallen from 24% to 12%
- wind and solar has increased from <1% to ~25%
It is relatively easy to close generation facilities, but note most of the wind and solar increase has happened in just 10 years.
The proposition that "it won't happen because we can't do it now" is complete nonsence!.
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The proposition that "it won't happen because we can't do it now" is complete nonsence!.
I find "It will happen, and it will benefit everyone because the government are on the case" just as nonsensical
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The proposition that "it won't happen because we can't do it now" is complete nonsence!.
I don't think anyone is saying that, just suggesting that expanding new ideas to a global scale may be difficult. There are limits to everything, which should be factored in.
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There seems to be an inability to accept that technology and material constraints will move on from the current status quo
History demonstrates that rapid progress is possible - even in electricity generation over the last 20 years:
- coal has fallen from ~ 30% to 2%
- nuclear has fallen from 24% to 12%
- wind and solar has increased from <1% to ~25%
It is relatively easy to close generation facilities, but note most of the wind and solar increase has happened in just 10 years.
The proposition that "it won't happen because we can't do it now" is complete nonsence!.
So what happens when it's dark or when the wind doesn't blow? Where's that electricity coming from in winter when output is at it's lwoest and egenral electricity demand at its highest?
I'm no luddite - the clue is in my handle or pessimist - I'm just a realist given my profession and, in reality, how slow things develop in the grand scheme of things.
This is not as easy as you and others believe it to be. And note that, as I've said time and again, there are far more factors at play than just the techincal side. I suggest that you re-read the many other threads on EVs and chanrging we've covered over the last couple of years.
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So what happens when it's dark or when the wind doesn't blow? Where's that electricity coming from in winter when output is at it's lwoest and egenral electricity demand at its highest?
I'm no luddite - the clue is in my handle or pessimist - I'm just a realist given my profession and, in reality, how slow things develop in the grand scheme of things.
This is not as easy as you and others believe it to be. And note that, as I've said time and again, there are far more factors at play than just the techincal side. I suggest that you re-read the many other threads on EVs and chanrging we've covered over the last couple of years.
When it' dark and the wind does not blow? Nuclear? In short term there will be gas power stations still. And storage technologies are ever evolving which can store the solar and wind power so it can be used when required.
Your username is Engineer Andy - how does that mean you are not a luddite? Quite possible for someone to be luddite and an engineer - it means you don't like new things or different ways of doing things - does not prevent you from being an engineer.
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So what happens when it's dark or when the wind doesn't blow? Where's that electricity coming from in winter when output is at it's lwoest and egenral electricity demand at its highest?
I'm no luddite - the clue is in my handle or pessimist - I'm just a realist given my profession and, in reality, how slow things develop in the grand scheme of things.
This is not as easy as you and others believe it to be. And note that, as I've said time and again, there are far more factors at play than just the techincal side. I suggest that you re-read the many other threads on EVs and chanrging we've covered over the last couple of years.
When it' dark and the wind does not blow? Nuclear? In short term there will be gas power stations still. And storage technologies are ever evolving which can store the solar and wind power so it can be used when required.
The variable nature of solar and wind power means that the grid needs some generation capacity which can be switched in/out quickly - only pumped storage hydro-electric and gas-fired can do that - nuclear needs to be relatively constant
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<< The variable nature of solar and wind power means that the grid needs some generation capacity which can be switched in/out quickly - only pumped storage hydro-electric and gas-fired can do that - nuclear needs to be relatively constant >>
Well, yes. Wind can certainly be switched in and out quickly, but I guess you assume that it will always be used when available. The modest windfarm (almost) visible from my front doorstep was idle the other morning (9:30am) when there was certainly enough breeze to drive the turbines.
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<< The variable nature of solar and wind power means that the grid needs some generation capacity which can be switched in/out quickly - only pumped storage hydro-electric and gas-fired can do that - nuclear needs to be relatively constant >>
Well, yes. Wind can certainly be switched in and out quickly, but I guess you assume that it will always be used when available. The modest windfarm (almost) visible from my front doorstep was idle the other morning (9:30am) when there was certainly enough breeze to drive the turbines.
Wind power can't be switched in when it's calm!
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<< Wind power can't be switched in when it's calm! >>
But it's surprising how little wind is needed to get the blades moving.
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<< Wind power can't be switched in when it's calm! >>
But it's surprising how little wind is needed to get the blades moving.
It's also surprising how little wind is needed for them to be shut down because it's 'too windy' for them. They are also quite maintenance heavy and the machinery obviously very difficult to reach.
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I watch National Grid
It is unlikely anyone can comment intelligently on power issues without watching it...
In cold winter nights with frost and clear skies, solar and wind power tend to be under 5% of total consumption. In summer they can be over 50%... And guess when power consumption peaks?
Power storage is a VERY VERY VERY expensive solution... and not economically or technically feasible yet.
Nuclear power? A laugh.. Old stations closing and new ones a decade away - small change in overall capacity...
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I agree with your comments re National Grid - based on their data over the last year energy sources are nuclear 19%, gas 37%, wind 20%, solar 4%, biomass 7%, coal/hydro/interconnect (13%).
Daytime demand, again averagely tends to be approx 40-50% greater than nighttime usage, although this may change if EV become more popular.
Broad strategy may be for a baseload demand to be met by sources which have fairly fixed output - eg: nuclear (costs and lead times could be an issue)
The balance to maximum demand needs to be flexible - some capacity needs to be almost instantaneous (hydro and storage), some with run up times of a few minutes to a few hours.
The way this is deployed relies upon forecasting skill - the weather for solar and wind generation, and demand variability due to weather, time of day, day of week, events etc.
The question - to what extent is it worth building additional wind and solar capacity as this needs to be matched by other capacity (gas mainly) to meet dark and windless days.
Even this simple question is impacted by (for instance) the flexibility and capacity of the interconnect, and the ability of some users to load shed at times of maximum demand.
This is not just about the total cost of generation to meet demand, but also long term energy security (fossil fuels may be both limited and imported), and green issues (climate change impacts)
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If you refer to www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ it shows the dire state the UK generation game is in. And it's not even winter yet!
Compare with www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/
The nukes here take the strain!
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There are proposals to convert a lot of Norwegian hydro to pump storage for Europe. The sums are said to look good.
But if that wasn't on National Grid, I suppose it can't be intelligent?
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I watch National Grid
It is unlikely anyone can comment intelligently on power issues without watching it...
In cold winter nights with frost and clear skies, solar and wind power tend to be under 5% of total consumption. In summer they can be over 50%... And guess when power consumption peaks?
Power storage is a VERY VERY VERY expensive solution... and not economically or technically feasible yet.
Nuclear power? A laugh.. Old stations closing and new ones a decade away - small change in overall capacity...
OOPS Nuclear power a solution?
""
Hitachi to abandon £20bn UK nuclear project
Spiralling costs of building a new atomic power station in Wales prompts Japanese giant to pull out of the project"
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/15/hitachi-pu.../
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"OOPS Nuclear power a solution?"
Nuclear power is the only solution for zero CO2 reliable base load generation.
All that is necessary is to finance the cost of building them.
75% of the cost of the electricity from a nuclear power station is the cost of servicing the loan needed to build it.
When it's up and running the fuel cost is peanuts.
One tiny uranium oxide fuel pellet a thimble-sized ceramic cylinder (approximately 3/8-inch in diameter and 5/8-inch in length) has the energy equivalent of 16 tons of coal.
So the reason the UK is lagging behind is the availability of the money to finance the building of the nukes.
And of course the lack of engineers in that skill set.
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"OOPS Nuclear power a solution?"
Nuclear power is the only solution for zero CO2 reliable base load generation.
All that is necessary is to finance the cost of building them.
75% of the cost of the electricity from a nuclear power station is the cost of servicing the loan needed to build it.
When it's up and running the fuel cost is peanuts.
One tiny uranium oxide fuel pellet a thimble-sized ceramic cylinder (approximately 3/8-inch in diameter and 5/8-inch in length) has the energy equivalent of 16 tons of coal.
So the reason the UK is lagging behind is the availability of the money to finance the building of the nukes.
And of course the lack of engineers in that skill set.
You do not mention decommissioning costs.
So I will
"It is estimated that the total cost of decommissioning the UK's Magnox power plants will be in the region of £12.6 billion, with the length of time for the completion of decommissioning potentially as much as 100 years"
tinyurl.com/yyslwhpc
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