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It does bring up an interesting issue however.
You cannot judge a dealer on whether a car goes wrong after 1,2 or 3 months or whatever. They did not design or make the car and have no way of knowing what might occur to that car once it drives off. You can only judge on how they react in the case of a problem not blame them for the problem occuring in the first place.
You often see statements from people like "The last car I bought from xxx went wrong after 4 months and they are con artist". This is stupid talk. What is a fairer comparison is "after 3 weeks it developed a fault but xxx were realy helpful and despite it being a cheap car did everything they reasonably could to help" compared to "xxx told me it wasn't anything to do with them and are not now answering the phone to me".
However, it is always important to remember the inconvenient truth with used cars. A used car buyer is inherently a cheapskate and choosing a lower price (than new) because the car inherently carries more risk in terms of longevity on a sliding scale of price, age and mileage. That is the choice the buyer is making and if they can't accept that they should not buy. At some point after purchase of any used car (and, eventually, a new one) you're on your own.
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A used car buyer is inherently a cheapskate and choosing a lower price (than new) because the car inherently carries more risk in terms of longevity on a sliding scale of price, age and mileage. That is the choice the buyer is making and if they can't accept that they should not buy. At some point after purchase of any used car (and, eventually, a new one) you're on your own.
Absolutely right, PD. I would only add the extra factor of buying privately. Clearly one can also get diddled that way, but (like for like) prices are usually lower, and from an honest seller one can learn a lot more about a car than from a trader who just picked it up at auction and may know little about that model. I have never bought brand-new, and I guess probably about 40:60 private and trader. So far I haven't bought anything I would call a lemon, or anything which needed warranty work (though come to think of it, some Minis when the kids were learning came close). Maybe just lucky?
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Cheapskate is a bit strong. Many people just can't afford new and have no other option than to buy used. Others just can't see the sense in losing thousands as soon the new car is driven off the forecourt.
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Cheapskate is a bit strong. Many people just can't afford new and have no other option than to buy used. Others just can't see the sense in losing thousands as soon the new car is driven off the forecourt.
Lots of people want lots of things they can't afford (myself included) so if they can't afford what they want then it is important buyers realise they are having to compromise.
Used cars are cheaper than new because they are not as good. If there was no compromise, they'd be worth a lot more money. For whatever reason a lot of people seem unable to grasp the fact that if they are unable or unwilling to buy something new (or newer) the compromise will be that they will have to spend more money maintaining it and fixing it and it will not, generally, be as good as a new one.
Internet forums are increasingly full of people who have bought £2000 cars and are incredulous that the product they've bought at 10% of its new price needs something fixed after a few months use. They can't accept the reality that there is a reason why it is worth 10% of new and that is because it isn't as good.
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Internet forums are increasingly full of people who have bought £2000 cars and are incredulous that the product they've bought at 10% of its new price needs something fixed after a few months use. They can't accept the reality that there is a reason why it is worth 10% of new and that is because it isn't as good.
That's only half the picture. The silly thing these days is that (most) cars are built to last well over 20 years - given a reasonable amount of attention; they become almost worthless before half that age, simply because of fashion and the fact that many people can afford to keep changing cars long before they need to. So there are plenty of bargains for the hunters to find if they hunt carefully.
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Internet forums are increasingly full of people who have bought £2000 cars and are incredulous that the product they've bought at 10% of its new price needs something fixed after a few months use. They can't accept the reality that there is a reason why it is worth 10% of new and that is because it isn't as good.
That's only half the picture. The silly thing these days is that (most) cars are built to last well over 20 years - given a reasonable amount of attention; they become almost worthless before half that age, simply because of fashion and the fact that many people can afford to keep changing cars long before they need to. So there are plenty of bargains for the hunters to find if they hunt carefully.
I don't think they are built to last 20 years. The main priority these days seems to be for them to last the warranty period and/or the length of a typical lease plan. Whilst the basic mechanicals are long lasting a lot of the extra bits are not. Today's cars will die long before those built 10-15 years ago.
Into that you have to add a pathological refusal of most owners to spend anything at all on any maintenance. I reckon at least 50-60% of owner/buyers of cars under £5k do not do a single thing to their car unless the MOT requires it. As far as many buyers are concerned you buy the car and if it goes wrong it is all somebody else's fault and it is totally unreasonable for them to need to spend money to fix it.
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"Today's cars will die long before those built 10-15 years ago."
That will be because the replacement cost of some of the elaborate electronic bits quickly approaches the sale value of the car. A deplorable development IMHO, but one which tends to encourage your other point:
"a pathological refusal of most owners to spend anything at all on any maintenance."
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Not only that;you buy a new car and think it's perfect;then you drive next year's model and it's better.I tjhought my thirteen year old car was good but I just bought a new one and it's much,much better;and next year's will be even better.How it gets built,I don't know because everything works and I'm still finding more and more things it can do and it's only a mid-range.
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I thought my thirteen year old car was good but I just bought a new one and it's much,much better;and next year's will be even better.
I'm willing to bet that the visibility out of your 13-year-old was better than your current model? No wonder modern cars need several CCTV cameras.
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Is there any evidence that today's cars are built to become unusable earlier than those of 1998?
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Cheapskate is a bit strong. Many people just can't afford new and have no other option than to buy used. Others just can't see the sense in losing thousands as soon the new car is driven off the forecourt.
Unless I buy a Suzuki Alto or a Dacia, there is no way I could afford to buy a new car from a mainstream manufacturer. Also due to being in a not very well paid job and needing a reliable car for work, cars have to be bought on finance. Yes we'd all like to buy the latest Volkswagen Golf like the magazines tell us, but millions of us can't get our hands on £ 14,000.
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There's no right or wrong to thie, is there - it's good to have the choice. Inevitably you get what you pay for, and a sub-£10,000 new car won't use the same quality of components as one costing a lot more. But particularly for those who do low, mostly local mieages, a Dacia or such like could give several trouble-free years and have the advantage of the full warranty. My daughter's Hyundai i10, about £5,000 cheaper than another Yaris which she was going to go for, has been fine so far after a year.
For those who spend more time in their car the extra comfort / performance / gadgets etc will seem worthwhile, and a used car can make more sense. There is of course the risk that the previous owner(s) will have abused and / or neglected it: most days I see driving which makes me think I wouldn't want to buy their car secondhand.
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cheapstake ide like to no how much u payd for ure first car pal the average joe yes would have been on his own with the scrap but were i come from obviously it gets sorted
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cheapstake ide like to no how much u payd for ure first car pal the average joe yes would have been on his own with the scrap but were i come from obviously it gets sorted
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Aye coodernt rede it thirst thyme.
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Jamie, your comment was a classic. ROFL! :)
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I've always enjoyed visiting this site for the intelligent banter that abounds. Unfortunately it's dipped well below that here.
Please can we have normal service resumed?
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Actually there's been some good debate above on the general topic of buying used cars.
The problem was that the original poster is either winding us up or is unconcerned about making it easy for others to understand what he's saying.
There are good and bad examples of all types of school - Jamie's comment was tongue in cheek.
Shanna, I hope you'll go on contributing. People say what they think on here, which is healthy: as a moderator Im reluctant to interfere with the right on a public forum to free speech, but I do have to delete comments which are offensive or potentially libellous.
Edited by Avant on 21/09/2013 at 01:01
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Thanks Avant, I did find the informative posts relevant.
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I did find the informative posts relevant.
But did you find the relevant points informative? :-)
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hope you understand this better.
ive given you all a heads up about a garage. im not winding no one up. what difference does it make what school i went to i pay alot of taxes more than most.
i payed for the first car cash.
first car owned first years insurance as ive only just passed my test. so it was expensive enough without forking out for a brand new car. or getting into debt for a car like the most out there.
ive been to the garage that takes all the work on and been told the diagnostics is a sham at the place. they turn off lights and send the cars back tobe sold if your not going to take the advice go and buy a car from the guy and see what happens bet you cant get a decent testdrive out of him. any questions welcome and ile try and answer with a
paragraph or two
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Many thanks. We all hope the replacement car continues to go well.
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The issue I have with the story is that you are basing your critisism of the dealer on conjecture and third party supposed stories.....but your actual first hand experience of the dealer has been excellent. They have replaced a faulty car when most would have told you to get lost.
I feel sorry for the dealer here as they have evidently bent over backwards to help a customer then said same customer slags them off on an internet forum based on what some bloke told them rather than their first hand experience.
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Would you feel sorry for dealer if they sold cars knowing the faults were there but hoped they didnt show up for any warranty period??
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and this is exactly whats goin on it seems dealers and customers have different views and no matta how much the dealer bends over backwards for me it doesnt stop the dealer doing it again to another hard worker and i quote what he said when i returned the first car .
ile have to push it into someone else
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So you did some digging after your 1st car messed up and found out he's a notorious con artist, turning lights off of the dashboard. So he agrees to give you a full refund on the 1st crappy car, and you decide to get a replacement from him? Despite all the dodgey stories you've heard about him?
If you ask me I think you only have yourself to blame.
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would have come off out of pocket if ide accepted a refund as you will no if uve read the whole post
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would have come off out of pocket if ide accepted a refund as you will no if uve read the whole post
For those of us who speak English and received a Local Authority Education here is a translation of the above:
If you had read the whole post you would realise I would have been out of pocket if I had accepted a refund.
Hope that helps.
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Skidpan, that is so funny. This whole discussion has been hilarious, I don't want it to end!
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No dealer will give a full refund after 3 momths unless, perhaps, the car has basically been off the road for 3 months with a fault. They're not a free hire car depot. If you've had use of the car a deduction for time and mileage is reasonable.
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It's staggering how many of you have completely missed the most important issue.
The garage/trader xxxx who is selling cars that are MOT failures is breaking the law. They should be reported and prosecution will follow, they cease trading, end of garage/trader, end of problem.
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I think a lot of people lost the will to live before reading the original post through to the end, and didn't see where it implied that the dealer was selling MoT failures. I still can't spot it.
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It's staggering how many of you have completely missed the most important issue.
The garage/trader xxxx who is selling cars that are MOT failures is breaking the law. They should be reported and prosecution will follow, they cease trading, end of garage/trader, end of problem.
I too cannot see where it mentions MOT failures in the garbled mess that is the original post. Additionally, an engine management warning lamp being illuminated is not a reason for rejection ( official name for failure ) but would be worthy of an advisory notice.
On the other hand, an EML that does not illuminate when the ignition is switched on ( unlike ABS or ESP ASR etc etc ) is still not a failure as it is not part of the test. Some cars don't have a bulb check for the EML so it wouldn't be even mentioned as an advisory anyway.
The OP says he checked the oil when he had a sensor replaced and found it a little high. Now this, on a car with a known and well documented weakness for turbo failure is bound to end badly as it's not just catalytic converters or DPF's that can be damaged by excess oil, but turbos too.
If the oil level is too high it can cause a diesel to "run away" whereby the oily mist that travels around the intake side is a little thicker and then gets into the combustion chamber and BOOM, the engine is now running on it's own oil. The weak turbo cannot handle this and the oil seals give in feeding even more oil into the chambers and subsequently draining the sump of oil so there's not a lot left.
In the worst cases, the engine will over rev and destroy itself ( I know, I've seen one do it ) and even switching off won't help as the engine is basically self fuelling and the only way to stop it is either stall the engine or cut off the intake air supply ( block the intake ).
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