Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - JOGON

In 1977 I was taught that first gear in manual cars should only ever be engaged when the vehicle is stationary. I have driven many cars and agree, in any event I cannot really conceive a situation where one would want, or need to.

Wife and daughter both try and do this (often when coming to a T junction where you have to stop anyway). It appears to take a lot of force and eventually only seems to 'click-in' when the vehicle has come to a halt.

The vehicle is a Hyundai i10 5 speed manual, and the gearchange precise and smooth.

What is 'best practice' and why? I'm not techy, but wondered if trying to force it into 1st whilst moving might break something or wear some part. Any ideas please.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - Peter.N.

The principle of not engaging first when moving comes from the days when I started driving and there was no synchromesh on 1st, but it was sometimes essential to change down when moving as many cars only had three speed boxes so if you were climbing a steep hill you would stop otherwise. Most of us perfected the art of 'double decluching' which matched the speed of the gears so they would engage without crunching. With modern synchromesh changing down into 1st is fine providing it is done at an appropriate speed.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

True.

However on a lot of transmissions, the gap between 1st and second gear ratio is large and the synchro hub will baulk when trying to back into 1st. I quite often double clutch and rev match to get back into first. It's got to be better than labouring the engine in second.

The other cog that catches people out is reverse. They don't realise that it takes a second or two for the layshaft to come to a halt before reverse can be selected-GRIND!

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - RT

Having had an i10 courtesy car for a couple of days while my Santa Fe had some warranty work done, the question is a bit academic as 1st is never needed if rolling, indeed it's so close to 1st that the 1-2 gearchange is intrusive at junctions because you're still steering most of the time.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - injection doc

the other problem that catches people out is when they select reverse and the gears catch head on and wont select, and rather than lift the clutch and try again they just force it and damage or bend the reverse selector !

As one who used to rebuild gearboxes I always stop before selecting first gear as I like my boxes to last ! and feel smooth as well>

Has anyone noticed with a manual box if someone else drives it rough it takes a few hundred miles to smoth the change again?

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

If you double clutch and rev match it falls right in without mashing the dogs, the synchro or the selector fork. I find it preferable to lugging the engine down to under 1000RPM in second and trying to pull away. 5mph is really first gear territory for most boxes. Yes, the engine will pull but it's pretty sloppy driving.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - JOGON

Thanks, that sort of confirms what I've thought, and experienced. The presence of synchromesh or otherwise on first is a red herring then really. The proof of the pudding is the bad physical effort that some folks go through to "push it into first" when moving - clearly the machine doesn't want to. Prolonged attempts cannot be good and it would be a shame to cock up a really rather good gear change.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

Quite. I always assume first and reverse are unsynchronised and use the minimum pressure on the gear lever. If doesn't take it-something is wrong.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - Bobbin Threadbare

In 1977 I was taught that first gear in manual cars should only ever be engaged when the vehicle is stationary. I have driven many cars and agree, in any event I cannot really conceive a situation where one would want, or need to.

30 years after that, when I started to learn, it was also the received wisdom. The synchromesh tells you that it doesn't want to do it!

I learnt in a Honda Jazz; it would set off in 2nd gear.

I use 1st to creep in, if the traffic situation calls for that.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

I learnt in a Honda Jazz

:)

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - Bobbin Threadbare

Yeah yeah laugh all you want. Now you know why I don't like them. Although it was a teensy improvement on the Corsa the instructor had first.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

I learned in a diesel Clio. To hill start you just let the clutch out steadily and the governer increases the fuelling accordingly for a perfect start every time. Tried the same trick in my carbbed Toyota=stall. Confidence ebbed away very quickly. Learning to driver a proper car was a baptism of fire.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - JOGON

So is the panel agreed that it is best for the machinery NOT to engage first gear unless stationary? BTW, I learned in a Citroen 2CV, now there was a gearchange, and good practice for the trombone. Took the test in it, think the examiner was just 'glad to be out of there'.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - RT

I learnt to drive on cars with 4-speed gearboxes and no synchromesh on 1st so you either waited until you were stationary and engaged 1st or engaged 2nd on the move.

I've never found any advantage on a modern car to do that any differently.

I did find 1st/2nd ratios very close together anyway.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

I'm not! My car is geared to ~8mph/1000 RPM and 4mph/1000 in first. So from a rolling start 2nd isn't really satisfactory. Just double clutch it with a blip and it won't hurt it at all. Better than labouring the engine.

The don't go back to first unless stationary is an anachronism.

I was one of those drivers who initially left the car in gear at traffic lights-my dad drummed the clutch release bearing issue into my head too!

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - Victorbox

They're also taught these days to sit at junctions in gear with the clutch depressed however long they are queuing, which won't do much for the clutch release bearing! We drummed this out of our children as soon as they had passed their tests.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - Bobbin Threadbare

Nooo! I wasn't taught that (passed 2008). I always sit in neutral and put the handbrake on. If nothing else, it stops your leg seizing up!

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - jc2

All 2CV's had synchro on first but not noticeable.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - galileo

Those old enough to have had 1950's Fords (100E Anglia/Prefect, Mark 1 and Mark 2 Consuls/Zephyrs) which had 3 speed boxes and unsynchronised first gear probably learnt to double declutch quite soon. Most other cars at that time also lacked synchro on first then but usually had lower second gears, so being balked up hill in traffic wasn't such a problem.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - craig-pd130

All of the cars I've owned from new (V40, Passat, Mondeo, V60) seem to prefer a pause in neutral, clutch lift then clutch down before going into 1st from 2nd gear when rolling.

Otherwise I find I'm pushing against the synchro, which can't be good long-term for the linkage, synchro etc.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - 1litregolfeater

Never put any car into first from second, you'll break something. If you try it it's obvious, only takes an ounce of mechanical sympathy to appreciate and never do it again.

If you really need to, like on a steep hill, a bit of double declutching will help, if you've got an engine where the ecu doesn't actively discourage it.

Unfortunately they do seem to encourage learners to do it, all part of the arcane art of the driving instructor.

Similarly, they encourage learners to wait at the lights with the car in first and the clutch depressed. Idiots.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - gordonbennet

This thread should be remembered and referred to by those wondering why modern clutches and DMF's dont last.

What became of mechanical sympathy.

Hyundai i10 - Engaging first gear in manual cars - unthrottled

Well, I've done some fairly thorough analyses on crankshaft torque delivery-and lugging the engine at very low speed is pretty hard on clutch faces/DMFs, not to mention the lubrication failure at mains and rods. It is mechanically more sympathetic to be in the right gear for the job at at ~5mph, that generally means 1st.

Double clutching without a throttle blip doesn't achieve anything when changing down...