Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - happy polo

Hi All,
A slightly obscure query perhaps, but can anybody clarify the legal position on passing through red traffic signals in order to allow an emergency vehicle to proceed? I seem to recall reading a few years back of a guy who did just that and was flashed by a cam; it made the papers as the local authorities declined to cancel the ticket I think. In this case surely a court appearance would result in said 'contravention' being rubbished? On the other hand, if you were to decide to stay put in order to protect your license, hindering an emergency response, are you then guilty of a different offence?! The subject came to mind as I've recently moved to Bristol and the place is a forest of cameras of every sort, an excellent example of a misguided tactic of taking the road policing budget and blowing the lot on cameras. I have to say I think that traffic signal cameras are inherently dangerous as they 'panic' people into either tanking through the lights inches from the car in front, or slamming on the anchors the moment they turn amber. Anybody feel the same?!

Edited by happy polo on 30/09/2010 at 01:14

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - bathtub tom

I sit tight unless there's a uniformed one directing me to do otherwise.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Dwight Van Driver

There are no exemptions for member of the public to pass a red light.

When a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then stopping at the line shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;

dvd

Edited by Dwight Van Driver on 30/09/2010 at 08:27

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - LucyBC

There are no exemptions for member of the public to pass a red light.

Absolutely accurate as always Dwight but the court may well accept a Special Reasons argument if a driver could show they were facilitating the passage of an emergency vehicle.

Special Reasons is not a defence but a mitigation and would mean that the court would convict (as an offence had been committed) but would impose no penalty in the form of points nor fine.

So the outcome is very similar to an acquittal - but legal costs cannot be recovered.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Dutchie

I would say a bit of common sense has to be used here.If a emergency service vehicle is behind me sirens going and i have to move over even if it means going through a red light without me endangering somebody else i will do so.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Zippy123

I would say a bit of common sense has to be used here.If a emergency service vehicle is behind me sirens going and i have to move over even if it means going through a red light without me endangering somebody else i will do so.

I would think twice if I had nine points on my licence and getting three more would result in my losing it! My job and home would be at risk!

Edited by Zippy123 on 09/10/2010 at 13:13

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Avant

Does anyone know - is the system for issuing NIPs (for crossing a red signal) completely computerised, or is a human being involved at any stage? If the camera records an emergency vehicle trying to get through, and a motorist getting out of its way, the obvious answer is not to issue a NIP.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - LucyBC

If it is a camera offence the NIP will be issued automatically - the reason being that they only have 14 days to deliver it to the keeper.

You may well be able to stop it proceeding to court if you make representations when returning the NIP or later to the CPS.

In the circumstances outlined our aim would be to get the case dropped before going to court but if there was a trial a Special Reasons argument would be the appropriate way of dealing with it.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Dutchie

Good point Lucy,i would think if a ambulance was behind me and a i was in front of a red light and it means me moving over to let the ambulance go through i would do so.What kind of community we live in if we block a amulance or any emercency vehicle the mind boggles.I noticed this year driving in France a ambulance was behind us on a emergency call they did't mess about you move and rightly so.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Dutchie

Bathtub tom and zippy,god forbid if one of your family was in the ambulance or needed the fire brigade or the police.And you both sit tight? Even with nine points i would think about that later like Lucy is saying there are special circumstances.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Zippy123

Bathtub tom and zippy,god forbid if one of your family was in the ambulance or needed the fire brigade or the police.And you both sit tight? Even with nine points i would think about that later like Lucy is saying there are special circumstances.

Well that's the point isn't it! Thatcher some time ago is reported as saying that "there is no such thing as society". We live in a time where the govt. believes that it is fair to remove a benefit from a lower paid family than a higher paid family because of a nominal tax banding. If they don't care, why should we!

If the authorities cared about society they would place police at traffic black spots and not cameras.

From all the traffic light cameras that I know, only one seems to be there as a safety feature. The road in question is down a steep hill and there is an offset junction that curves in from the right and where merging traffic is hard to see.

Nearly all the others that I see are to control traffic flow on a main roads with clear junctions and designed, I think to keep traffic flowing in rush hour by stopping slow moving traffic logging up the lights.

Now the truth is that I have moved out of the way for the emergency services. I have even had my wing mirror removed by a passing ambulance and had to fix it at my expense (a few hundred pounds) because there was no where to go in a busy high street (and no I could not mount the kerb it was too high). I didn't chase the ambulance or force it to stop which I could have, but I do get fed up of people who suggest that we would want the waves to part for a member of our family. Of course we would try our best but the reality is that moving through a red light puts the driver in danger and just because there is a blue light behind you shouldn't force you to put yourself in danger or hardship and the current situation means that you potentially puts you in a situation where your job, home, family and life could be put at risk.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Ben 10

If I had of been you, I would have written to the ambulance service and requested they pay for the damage. They would have investigated and usually pay out no questions.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - Dutchie

I dont understand your attitude Zippy like Ben says you could have rang the ambulance service and they would have sorted it out.They are vehicles on a emergency call not for the fun of it.I have moved there is always space.

Emergency Vehicles & Red Lights - OG

Obstructing emergency workers only became a criminal offence in 2007. A sad reflection on society that someone thought the law it was necessary at all.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6377597.stm

So up to you to decide if you want to risk 3 points by running a red light or £5,000 by staying put.