any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

Just a quick one this -- I could do with a gallery of the pedal positions of various cars. Having been bitten by the Ford, and not wanting to go through that again but not wishing to traipse around looking at cars on the off-chance, I thought I could use such a set of pictures to rule out certain models.

For reference, the Focus's accelerator pedal is around 2" too far to the left for me, and the brake pedal more like 3-4"(at a minimum) as they have made no effort to group the two pedals together as the typical Japanese carmaker does. They're also set far too high which is going to be more tricky to filter without looking at vehicles but if I can get rid of a fair few it would help.

Edited by primeradriver on 08/08/2010 at 22:27

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Collos25

This has to be a wind up.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

Well as it happens What Car seems to disagree with you -- but thanks for the helpful insight in any case.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Collos25

Do you want all the measurements on the photos and scales etc.

Wound't it be just easier to make a list of cars you are interested in and test drive them that way you will have a definitive answer to your problem.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - carl_a

In total agreement with regards to this subject, there should be much better details with regards to pedal boxes on cars. The best web site for photos regarding this is parkers. As you've said the Japanese usually do a very good job of placing the peddles and also I've found the spacing between and to the left of the clutch much better too. The Koreans (as in Hyundai/Kia) seem to do an excellent job too.

It's one of the first things I look at with cars, not well spaced pedals or no clutch rest and I won't even bother.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

Well ultimately that is the answer -- and to be honest it's what I am going to end up having to do -- but as carl_a says the information really should be available.

The way I see it, the gas pedal should be inline or slightly to the right, and the brake pedal slightly to the left of the natural rest position of the foot. There was a study of driving positions a few years ago which is available online of the various wheel/pedal offsets but this is out of date now -- the previous Focus was indeed better than the new one in this regard.

The problem as well lies in the difficulty involved in test driving a used car for any period of time. But I think I now have the matter sorted in my head, as the Focus is a good example of poor design that will act as a reference -- pedal position, intrusion of wheelarch into pedal bay, over-wide central dash panel intruding into the left side of the pedal bay, absence of footrest, position of gear lever (too far forward) and poor seat support are all present in this car and I will have to be more careful in future!

After all it's a bit silly me having bought a shiny newish car, and finding I have to give it to the missus, and drive around in an old SpaceStar simply because I can't get on with the Ford!

Edited by primeradriver on 09/08/2010 at 01:41

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Armstrong Sid

Strange, because I've had an 08 Focus for over a year and I've never noticed any problem with pedal positions.

I guess it must be down to personal shape, size and preferences. Some people have short legs and long arms or vice versa; some people like to sit bolt upright staring out of the windscreen, others take a more laid-back approach. All those factors must have a bearing on whether you find a car comfortable or not (even allowing for seat/wheel adjustment). The big problem I find with many cars these days is the pedals are too high off the floor. It can't be safe having to lift your foot up to change gear or brake; it should just be a slight sideways movement.

For pedal position the best car I've ever driven, still to this day, was the driving school Hillman Avenger I learned in. Height. position, angle were perfect for heel and toe driving.

My gripe with the Focus is that it has slightly wider-than-standard low-profiles (I think factory fitted, but I didn't have it from new). Road noise/drumming/rumbling is very loud and annoying; and I'm not sure how long I'll keep it.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Collos25

I have driven hundreds of cars in my life both left hamd and right hand driveand never had a problem with pedal position there are different positions but you get used to them in minutes.

Its nothing to do with What car or Which car its the fact you wanted us to go out and take photos of pedals scale them and send them to you while you sat on the settee. Instead of looking for yourself.

Edited by Andy Bairsto on 09/08/2010 at 10:18

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - mike hannon

It's odd isn't it, this business of relative foot/pedal positions?

My Jaguar has what I think is a rather cramped pedal box for my size 10 feet.

My son has size 12 feet and he drives it with no problem.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - cheddar

It's not a matter of right or wrong, like shoes or golf clubs, some fit some and others fit others.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - bathtub tom

I (briefly) drove a mates Elva. The pedal box was too small to get both my size 12s in at the same time. Gear changes required forethought and leg shuffling.

This was after we'd taken the roof off to give me headroom. The windscreen top rail was directly in line of vision and I found the best view of the road was achieved by looking over the top of the screen!

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Dutchie

Is this a wind up?Different cars different settings like Andy says you get used to a car.Previous to our focus we had a honda jazz it took me a while to get used to the seats not as comfortable as the misubishi space star but we got used to it.Iam over six feet and i find the focus very comfortable no problem with pedal settings also the fiat punto we had two very comfortable and nice to drive.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Cliff Pope

Is this a wind up?Different cars different settings

50 years ago people said things like that about car seats. Who needs adjustable seats - you just get used to them?

Steering wheel position uncomfortable - just get used to it.

Fancy a heater? No need to adjust it, straight On or Off will do.

Perhaps in 10 years time adjustable pedals will be the norm - perhaps some cars have them already

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

I was not wanting anyone to take photos for me. That is absurd,and I suspect AB knows it. I just wanted to know if there were any websites out there that showed the layout -- and as it turns out WhatCar does for the most part.

And I do find pedal position important. I never used to, until I got the Focus, but after driving it a while it causes me physical discomfort, and pain after a while longer.

I do not take wasting hundreds of pounds lightly, and so I just hoped that someone who had been through this before might have been able to give a few pointers.

The fact that some high end Focuses now come with pedal adjusters says to me that Ford are aware of this issue!!

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Andy P

Just a thought, but could your problems be down to something other than pedal position? I find it a bit surprising that something that is, after all, a matter of inches, can cause so much discomfort. Perhaps the seat isn't adjusted properly (too high/low, wrong seat back position, lack of proper lumbar support etc.) or maybe you have an underlying medical condition that makes you predisposed to this problem.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Cliff Pope

I find it a bit surprising that something that is, after all, a matter of inches, can cause so much discomfort..

I suspect that poorly-placed pedals will be found to be doing a lot on unnoticed harm to people's feet. We spend hours each day sitting in cars, the same as we do sitting at computer desks with the height not quite right, or the mouse buttons at the wrong pont or the keyboard tilted at the wrong angle.

I would guess that a pedometrist or whatever they are called could tell at a glance from someone's feet or the way they stand how well-adapted their car pedals were. Tiny sustained misalignments from a natural position are a major cause of RSI, back ache, etc.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - bathtub tom

This is an age old problem and in the old days quality car magazines would highlight offset pedals and offset steering wheels in their road tests.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - corax

Is this a wind up?Different cars different settings like Andy says you get used to a car.Previous to our focus we had a honda jazz it took me a while to get used to the seats not as comfortable as the misubishi space star but we got used to it.

Do you mean you get used to a car or you put up with it for the rest of the duration? I defy anyone to remain comfortable in my old Alfasud with it's high set pedals inducing severe ankle ache after an hour of driving. I don't know how you you could get used to seats. Your back either fits them or it doesn't. I find smaller cars less comfortable as the amount of space restricts what the manufacturers can do, so they usually have shorter seat squabs to make more boot space or rear legroom.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - brighton555

Hi primeradriver

I agree with you totally. I have a 58 Focus and just cannot get on with the relative positions of the throttle and brake pedals. I seem to have to totally move my foot to brake instead of just flicking it across that I would do with my last car. I feel this slows my braking response considerably and makes my leg ach.

I also think the clutch is much too high and too much travel.

I am going to look round at other cars and will change soon – vw scirocco is on my list.

Phil

Edited by brighton555 on 22/08/2010 at 13:39

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - Dutchie

No corax i wont put up with a car regarding seats if i felt uncomfortable and it caused me backache not worth my health.Previous to the honda jazz we had a mitsubishi space star.I still miss that car very comfortable on long distances.The honda jazz nice car but nowhere as comfortable as the space star.The puntos we owned no problems either and i am not italian build:) But i can truthfully say (sounds posh) the focus we have now is spot on nice comfy seats and no pedal problems lovely car to drive and it feels safe on the road.The proof will be in the pudding next month we are off to the south of france and see how we feel when we comeback.Primeradriver you are not happy with the car i would move on this one is not for you.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

Thanks all for the comments.

As mentioned on another post I have discovered that part of the issue at least, is a fault with the clutch master cylinder which is causing the clutch pedal to travel far more than it should. I have been compensating for this by moving the seat further forward than is comfortable (to allow me to comfortably push the clutch pedal all the way down) which I feel has exacerbated the problem.

My sciatica seems to be abating. So I will be getting this repaired (should be under warranty) then I will be giving the Focus another go. But make no mistake, if I still feel uncomfortable in it in a couple of months, away it goes.

I have had a quick look in a Kia Cee'd (not a full test drive) and the pedals on that car seem to be far more sensibly placed -- it will be high on the list of potential replacements in a month or two if I decide to change. The tax man owes me £4500 so it'll be an ideal time to change anyway!

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

brighton555, you are reflecting exactly my thoughts about the car. But I think, in my case that it is unfair now to completely condemn the car based on the new knowledge about the clutch. Perhaps, if you got the car used you may have the same issue -- seems to be a common complaint with the frankly rather flimsy-looking MC on these cars, they fail and can exhibit a range of symptoms.

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - brighton555

HI primeradriver

Please can you tell me where i can find information on the clutch travel problem?

What are the symptoms and fixes and how much does it cost?

phil

Edited by brighton555 on 22/08/2010 at 21:52

any - Pedal position -- pictures? - primeradriver

Just google "focus master cylinder clutch".

The symptom on my car is that the pedal goes all the way to the floor and the bite point seems (relatively) too high as a result.

I understand that the most common symptom is a sticking clutch (getting stuck in the depressed position). The "stopper" is a small bump in the rod that goes into the cylinder itself, which is made of plastic and can wear. Sometimes what can happen is that the owner will get this issue, and push the pedal back up again -- obviously this wears the stopper device out and then the pedal goes to the floor.

Cost from main dealer is around £115 including all labour, bleeding the system etc. The part is around £45-50 so I would imagine an indie would be charging around £80 for the same job.

 

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