Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8472456.stm

You could not make it up!
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Falkirk Bairn
2/3 FBs in Scotland bought them as well - expensive White sorry Red Elephants
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - oldnotbold
There was one in South Wales, too:

tinyurl.com/welsh-carp
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - dieseldogg
So they should have been an 8 legger?
A bit suspect though, that the purchasing fire authorities did not examine the specification in detail, allowing for the weight of water & crew & kit on board etc before purchase.
I have specified & purchased a few vehicles that I knew would be tight on all-up weight, there was a necessary element of iteritive discussion involved.

Edited by dieseldogg on 22/01/2010 at 11:21

Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - barney100
Typical use of public money. Surely someone should have had the savvy to check vehicle specifications for suitability.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - WorkshopTech
Yes, I blame Gordon Brown.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - ijws15
What is the betting that the guy who "ordered" them got a nice fat bonus and is still in his job!

"a supplier's cock up" - (it is a quote) . . . . words fail me!"
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - pmh3
From what I was told by an ex senior fire officer several years ago individual 'Districts', (terminology may not be strict), had responsibility for specifying and ordering to their individual requirements. This even resulted in adjacent districts having hoses with fittings that were not compatible! This autonomy was very closely guarded - the thought of the need for a centralised authority was greeted with horror!

Crazy!
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Snakey
So these things weight more than 26 tonnes!?

Surely a lot of that must be the water they carry. Maybe they should only half fill them ;-)
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - bell boy
and put half of the fire out ;-)
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Old Navy
Surely a lot of that must be the water they carry. Maybe they should only
half fill them ;-)

>>
Try driving a half full fire engine and see how quickly it rolls over.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Cliff Pope
>>
>>
Try driving a half full fire engine and see how quickly it rolls over.


So how do they get home again if it's only a little fire and they don't need all the water - just squirt it around for fun to lose weight?

You'd have thought the acronym might have been a clue that this was some kind of expensive April Fool.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Old Navy
So how do they get home again if it's only a little fire and they
don't need all the water - just squirt it around for fun to lose weight?


I just knew there was a use for fire hydrants. :)
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Ben 10
"So how do they get home again if it's only a little fire and they don't need all the water - just squirt it around for fun to lose weight?"

No they are replenished from a hydrant before driving back. Usually.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - bell boy
so a case of having the hoses but nowhere to stick them pmh3
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Ben 10
These trucks were introduced to cut operational posts and save money on appliances. One pump and one turntable ladder would need a crew of 8 max. Combining the two appliances would need a crew of 6. Purely a cost cutting exercise.

Sending two pumping appliances to an incident is enough to cover a domestic fire or road accident, with up to 12 crew and resources. Operational risk assessments are made with certain jobs on the fireground needing sufficient personnel for an incident to run smoothly. Starting with only 6 people will delay operations and put lives at risk. Any chance of one of these breaking down en route or being involved in an accident allows at least one appliance to carry on.

Replacing two appliances with this one seems ideal, but will lead to shortcomings considering it cannot get around many streets because of size. Causing further delays(parked cars etc.). It is a short sighted penny pinching solution that will lead to grief for crews and public alike.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - rtj70
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


And not too heavy hopefully either. They seem to have got this wrong and it goes back to 2007 so no easy fix?
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - sporty
Have to wonder why the company TVAC went out of business... surely not because of useless products?? ;)
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Brentus
I blame Gordon Brown.

.....WHY....?
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Brentus
Barney100 your correct. In the real world this is called a contract review.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Brentus
Pure incompetance by the management of the brigades mentioned. MMmmmm i wonder did TVAC tell the brigades what they would get or did the brigades management tell em to build what they want.

To add further insult the Carp destined for Humberside has been sent abroad for modifications at further cost. Incompetance beyond comprehension.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Brentus
Should heads roll for this act of incompetance.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Old Navy
Should heads roll for this act of incompetance.

>>
Fat chance, take responsibility, this is 2010, it does't happen any more.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - movilogo
What is legal limit on UK roads?
How much do these fire engines weigh?
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Old Navy
I think they should have had another axle to reduce the axle loading to legal levels. As said above too big anyway.

Edited by Old Navy on 25/01/2010 at 14:23

Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Bilboman
There is a long tradition of vehicles in the public service occasionally not being suitable for public service! (Couldn't these vehicles be sold to another country where they drive on the left to recoup some of the investment? Just a thought...)
I seem to remember a thread here a couple of years ago about the police officers at the wheel of a 4 x 4 who began a pursuit of a gang, only to stop at the city limits as the officers concerned had not done an off-road driving course. A suitably experienced police officer arrived to take charge, only to be told he couldn't continue the chase either as the 4 x 4 was not fitted actually with off road tyres. At which point the chase was abandoned.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - ifithelps
...There is a long tradition of vehicles in the public service occasionally not being suitable for public service!...

Reminds me of when Group 4 took over prison to court escort duties from the Prison Service, which was reluctant to give them up.

There were lots of stories of prisoners being taken to the wrong place and other foul-ups.

Including one about the new Group 4 van that was a couple of inches too wide to get into the prison.

A Group 4 executive I spoke to years later was convinced his company was deliberately given the wrong width for the prison gates in a (very successful) attempt to make them look stupid.

Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - bell boy
just watched the full piece on bbc local news and now know where the term pompous comes from
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - colino
Amazing the amount of time you can spend selling to "procurement experts" in the public sector and slashing your prices to meet their stringent requirements. Worth it in the end when you offload crap that no one else would buy at crazy prices.
Official. £500K fire engines are CARP & unuseable - Brentus
The Carp for Humberside they took it out on a run in Grimsby and it was too big to navigate some streets, in some it couldnt get through because of awkwardly parked cars.

What is more suprising is that it is now in holland been modified. Don't we have any British companies capable of doing this. Unbelievable.

i wonder if this doesnt work if the fire chief blames this supplier as well.