I think most of the replies to this thread could be combined with the replies to the one about "4WD for country lanes".
Totally unecessary for 99.999% of the population.
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Quatrac 3 bear the M&S and mountain symbol so are legal where winter tyres are required but they are sold as an all season tyre a compromise if you like. I found no problems using them all year. Maybe the wear rate was a little higher that's all.
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Out of interest, do winter tyres operate on higher or lower pressures than the normal summer tyres rated in your cars bumph?
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Same pressure as standard tyres.
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What do winter tyres make of water?
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What do winter tyres make of water?
Superb wet grip...i can't emphasise just how transformed the pick up is once the Vred Wintracs go on (remember RWD unless on loose surface, locked centre diff when 4WD selected).
It can be driven like any normal vehicle once those tyres go, especially in the wet the grip is amazing, standing water is of little consequence too despite 265 section tyres they will clear all, pick ups normally are skittish in the wet and good tyre specs are vital.
Cost me a replacement set of summers, swmbo didn't want another warm season on the present disappointing Yokohama's so they're being replaced this week, despite having 6mm left.
The difference in wet grip really is that noticeable, she hated the changeover point late March this year.
First year on Nokian winter's on the MB, so far so good very reassuring in all cold scenarios, ice, slush, snow or water.
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See interesting test: tinyurl.com/yav853o
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What do winter tyres make of water?
Can only agree with what GB says. The difference in wet road grip at lower temperatures with winter tyres fitted is amazing. Ice and snow obviously as well. Both my cars are rwd and with the winter tyres fitted I can drive (and brake!) with aplomb across surfaces that I pretty much have to tiptoe across with the summer tyres fitted.
It's always entertaining at this time of year sailing past the (inevitably) british and dutch registered Range Rovers on the road to Garmisch-Patenkirchen that are struggling in the snow on their 20" low profile summer tyres.
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Why are low profile tyres worse than high profile?
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Why are low profile tyres worse than high profile?
Generally speaking they aren't. It's the tread compound and pattern which make the difference. The point I was making was more the unsuitabability of these vehicles in wintery conditions unless they have the right tyres fitted, and the extent to which you can improve the suitability of more mundane machinery simply by using winter tyres.
Actually, up until recently it wasn't actually possible to buy winter tyres in the rubber band formats which I mentioned above, you had to go down a few wheel sizes and increase the tyre aspect ratio.
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The future Mrs L has a Passat Tdi 140, currently with 93k miles on an '07 plate. Because of where she lives, a combination of altitude and steep residential road, she really struggles when there is any snow at all. She is considering fitting snow tyres just so she can get the mile to the main road, and plenty of her calls are in remote hilly areas, inc the N Yorks Moors and Derbyshire Dales. If her 'financial controller' ok's it, should she fit winter tyres to all 4 wheels, or just the driven ones?
Any advice please.
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should she fit winter tyres to all 4 wheelsor just the driven ones?
All 4, the difference between the two will make the car very unstable imo, some eye opening links to youtube video's kindly posted by Doc above some of which show what happens when 2 only fitted to front, the back end overtakes the front quite alarmingly.
Is her mileage so high that she will wear them out by summertime, or is the car long term enough to support a winter only set and keep the existing for summer.
If not they will wear very quickly in the warm....it might be worth considering high quality all seasons like Vredestein Quatrac 3 discussed earlier...the tread being half winter half summer.
Edited by gordonbennet on 20/12/2009 at 21:46
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Thanks for the reply GB. 4 it is then.
Her lease car is changed every 3 years, due to be changed this Spring. If they wear out over winter, ie 20k miles, it is not too important in the grand scheme of things.
The lease company insist she use ATS who fit Michelin Primacy (I think) although the car came with Dunlop SP Sports.
The company (her employer, not the lease company) will hopefully pay for the winter tyres, which will be retained for the next lease vehicle, which at this stage looks like being an Insignia, although she favours the look of the Passat CC. I keep banging on about the Legacy but she refuses to drive an estate car! Hey ho.
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Hope they do pay for 'em LL, Michelin winters will cost an arm and a leg but good stuff.
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The lease company will only pay for 'normal' tyres through ATS. The winter tyres will hopefully be paid for by her employer, so she can fit any brand, and will be retained when the lease car is changed. Hope this clarifies.
Do you recommend fitting the 'winters' to her existing lease car alloys, or should she get a set of spare steel wheels...would they be interchangeable with a possible future Insignia?....bearing in mind that she covers lots of motorways miles in a very unmimsing fashion....
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Oh it's lease car ? Just tell her to use more revs, it'll be fine.....
;-)
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 20/12/2009 at 22:25
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She does max the revs Humph, she does.
Not so long ago she had 8 people , including a full team of bin men, pushing her car up the road so she could get away on her travels.
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fitting the 'winters' to her existing lease car alloys or should sheget a set of spare steel wheels...would they be interchangeable with a possible future Insignia?
Chances of them being the same size as the Insignia are remote IMO, but you never know.
I'd get them fitted to her existing wheels and keep the existing summer set to be refitted at the appropriate time, then do as you can with the winter set, maybe fleabay'em next autumn if they don't fit owt else and put the money towards the company do?
Good lease company to pay for Michelins anyway, i was party to a converstion in a leasing companies office where it was made clear to the querying tyre company that only budget tyres would be paid for, and the driver could not have tyres that gripped!!!
Trust Humph to have the answer..spin em out for change time;-)
Edited by gordonbennet on 20/12/2009 at 22:28
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My brother drove back from Slovakia in his Audi with winter tyres fitted. I believe he used this fact to talk his way through a police roadblock or two after getting off the ferry and trying to access the motorway network.
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Thanks GB. Much appreciated.
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I have been in Hamburg this week, winter tyres are a virtually a legal neccesity in Germany due to the implications of causing an accident in snow and ice without them hence many people have two sets of wheels.
They are reckoned to be better at low temperatures in the wet and dry as well as on ice and snow however I reckon good normal tyres would be better say when braking in the wet on a motorway even in low ambient because they clear the water better, and once the ambient gets nearer 10deg than zero the normal tyres are much better.
On snow and ice in sub zero ambient winter tyres do help though.
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I have a set of Vredestein's Snowtracs which we fit November to March on our MX-5, and, until you have tried them, you won't believe the difference they make: and I speak from a household that has a Forester and Outback and live in a semi-rural area.
I haven't seen a single gritter all week but have seen the looks on peoples' faces as you chug merrily uphill past a line of stationary traffic and traverse ungritted roads others won't or can't travel.
I find it amazing that people will spend a fortune on a car but not invest in spare set of cheap rims and quality tyres that cost £25 to fit and remove once a year and dramatically improve traction and safety - even if only for the week or so of extreme weather when everyone else gets stuck.
Yes, they won't unblock clogged roads but they will get you off the drive, out and back again safely and with confidence: a no-brainer given this weeks weather.
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I needed two new tyres on the back this week, I did consider getting the tyre place to fit winter tyres all round and I would take the two tyres from the front home with me until March.
But in the end I couldn't be fussed, so I just got two new tyres fitted to the back and left it at that.
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Daughter teaches in a small village school half way up a long steep hill in the Pennines and has a 20 mile each way commute - I'm thinking she might find a use for a set of winter/all-season tyres. She has a Ka - only one I can find in 165/65 R13 is Vredestein Snowtrack, and I presume they'll be a special order....
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Having driven an imprezza with snow tyres and without, the difference in performance on snow/ice is extraordinary. Like you wouldn't believe. You wouldn't know that you were driving on anything other than tarmac.
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Dieselfitter...If you email Camskills they'll come back to you very quickly with stock status, wish mine were as cheap as these....small delivery charge so worth looking elsewhere too.
www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m11b0s728p0
Edited by gordonbennet on 23/12/2009 at 11:06
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I've splashed out on a set of winter tyres plus wheels for an accord diesel. The price from mytyres for a steel wheel plus tyre were within a few quid of the usual michelin's (tyre only)so worth a try. I'll fit them myself - but at least I can find out at home whether the wheel nuts can be loosened instead of at the side of road with a flat.
I live in a rural area (north Yorks) and am getting pig sick of gritting the road evernight using the grit bin.
I'll feed back on mytyres service and life with winter tyres once fitted.
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Just did a search on winter tyres and came across this discussion.
I really wonder what those guys who claimed its unecessary to get winter tyres are thinking or claiming now ;-)
always said we need winter tyres? ;-)
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Your post prompted me to update my thread at
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/posts/?t=88304
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Winter tyres are by far and way the best investment for your car, even in the wet the difference is huge, i got my winter tyres from these guys as i bought alloy wheels from them last summer: http://www.performancealloys.com/Winter-Tyres.aspx good prices, i called them and got a bit extra discount as well.
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Hmmmm,
I appreciate I repeat what others have said above but
FWD + Winter Tyres, will probably mostly outperform 4WD on ordinary tyres
Especially regarding braking & steering.
On the other hand 4WD + Winter Tyres = mutts nutts
I have winters ready for the Octavia and will fit winters to the Steyr Puch when the current tyres are done.
in the case of the Steyr I will probably actually comprmise on "all seasons" and run them the year round.
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''On the other hand 4WD + Winter Tyres = mutts nutts''
Agreed, had Vred Wintracs on the Hilux, not sure just how bad or steep it would have to be to stop it, went everywhere i asked of it in RWD only without the slightest slip.
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