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The F1 & motorsport thread - Vol 37 [Read Only] - Dynamic Dave

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 38 *****


As the title suggests, this thread is for all things Formula One and other general motorsport related stuff.

This is Volume 37.

Usual rules apply. When we get to around 100 posts, the thread will be locked and the next volume will start.


PLEASE NOTE

As with the IHAQ & the Computer threads, When posting a NEW topic, please "Reply to" the first message in this thread, i.e. this one. This keeps each topic in it's own separate segment and stops each new topic from getting mixed up in amongst existing topics. Also please remember to change the subject header.


Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/11/2009 at 00:42

McLaren not interested in bidding war - Westpig
is this aimed at Kimi or Jenson?

www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79720

Edited by rtj70 on 24/10/2009 at 21:40

McLaren not interested in bidding war - rtj70
My guess is this is aimed at Kimi. They want him to sign but not for a salary like he had at Ferrari.... then again he has £25m for next year regardless.
No Donington GP, says Ecclestone - Dynamic Dave

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m

Formula 1 commercial rights holder Bernie Ecclestone has categorically insisted there will be no British Grand Prix at Donington Park next year.

"There's no Donington," said Ecclestone at the new Yas Marina track in Abu Dhabi ahead of the final race of 2009.

The proposed move from Silverstone to Donington collapsed because the company redeveloping the circuit failed to show it had the £135m funding required.

Silverstone are trying to ensure there will be a British Grand Prix in 2010.
Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - jbif
I am not going tomorrow (free, open to all, no tickets required):
uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23102009/13/million-visitor...l

I think it will be interesting to see tomorrow how Heikki puts to good use his very fast car, with KERS, which can be used for overtaking effectively on the long straights at Abu Dhabi. Heikki qualifed in 13th place, having suffered a gear selection problem, and is relegated to 18th due to the gearbox change. There will be 10 or so cars in front of him which are about 1 second a lap slower than the McLaren and another 3 or 4 cars beyond that that are about 0.5 second a lap slower than him. Heikki should in theroy be able to over take one or two cars every lap in the first few laps.

I am going on 8 November for the (now) tickets only event:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/item.htm?id=19012
"Powered by Mercedes-Benz Live will offer fans the chance to meet Lewis Hamilton, his team-mate Heikki Kovalainen, double World Champion Mika Hakkinen, David Coulthard and Formula 1 team boss Ross Brawn. Formula 1 drivers Pedro de la Rosa and Anthony Davidson, as well as a host of Mercedes-Benz Touring car and Formula 3 drivers, will also be in attendance."

Edited by jbif on 31/10/2009 at 21:33

Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - Altea Ego
I will see you there then jbif, for I have tiockets for the MB world event as well


>Heikki should in theroy be able to over take one or two cars every lap in the first few laps.

He hasnt shown any inclination to do that in the last 20 GPs, why should tomorrow be any different?



Abu Dhabi GP - drbe
Well, five laps to go and so far this has been the most boring race of the season. Hamilton had to retire with brake problems and that has been the only surprise of the race.

Brundle's starting grid walk was the most cringe making yet. Flintoff I can just about stomach, but when it goes to the grinning beard, I turn off.

Edited by drbe on 01/11/2009 at 14:32

Abu Dhabi GP - Old Navy
They want some of the "grinning beards" money!
Abu Dhabi GP - Lud
Never mind the pit lane celebs.

If you turned off 5 laps from the end you missed Button and Webber having a small tussle. And obviously no one has noticed the very confident and fast Mr Kobayashi, 6th from 12th on the grid in his second F1 race is it? He will be a man to watch. In fact out-Buttoned Button round some sharp ones, admittedly running light and with the Champ just out of the pits.

Bit of a science fiction venue though.
Abu Dhabi GP - JH
"Bit of a science fiction venue though."

Well one of the drivers is named after a Star Trek training exercise... :-)

And did you notice that the Arabs don't believe in global warming / rising sea levels? $26 billion to build it on land as flat as a pancake and about 2 feet above sea level.

JH
Abu Dhabi GP - Old Navy
And did you notice that the Arabs don't believe in global warming / rising sea
levels?>>


They dont need the environmental taxes.
Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - jbif
re - Brooklands - Powered by Mercedes-Benz Live

It was a fantastic day (despite the weather being a bit damp and cold) and all for free!

Thousands of people turned out, and I met some people there who had driven from Manchester to see the show. I am lucky to live within walking distance of the track.
Lewis and Heikki drove Lewis's 2008 McLaren F1 car and Davidson drove Barichello's 2009 car.
Didn't see Altea Ego anywhere though.

Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - rtj70
I assume Brooklands is different to when I first and last was there - around 14 years ago at an event for becoming a graduate employee. We did walk the bank of the track that survived then - albeit in the dark.
Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - henry k
I assume Brooklands is different to when I first and last was there - around 14 years ago

Ever so slightly :-) tinyurl.com/yan6xa2

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KteL6AxVGM&feature=related
The whole complex is on the flat. There is a quick shot of the track layout in the above.
A quick trip around the track
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYdB-J67lcg

There is a skid pan there that is sprayed with water to ensure the best effects.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1m5mlPvvE&feature=related

Lots of stuff on Youtube

>>We did walk the bank of the track that survived then - albeit in the dark.
You can still climb the bank but in the adjacent Brooklands Museum.
www.brooklandsmuseum.com/
Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - rtj70
We were at the Brooklands Museum. In 1995 there wasn't much else there.

Your first link does not work BTW. Link at TinyURL is wrong.

I was asking about changes tongue in cheek - I've seen articles etc. on the new Brooklands facilities.
Abu Dhabi race - MB World Brooklands - jbif
assume Brooklands is different to when I first and last was there - around 14 years ago >>


MB world as seen by MS birds-eye view some months ago:
tinyurl.com/yf9vd3c

Further development has taken place, and more is in progress, since the photos were taken. The Aerospace museum is to the right of the MB world site, and if you drag the view over there, you will see new additions such as the model Concorde as well its real full size counterpart.

Who is driving for who in 2010 - henry k
Barrichello seals Williams drive
Nico Hulkenberg to Williams

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Who is driving for who in 2010 - smokie
A useful summary of where we are now... en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/0911031...l
Who is driving for who in 2010 - henry k
Kimi is off to the woods

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Who is driving for who in 2010 - rtj70
So he'll have to try to get by on the money Ferrari are paying him for not driving next year then. I think it's only about £15m too... for not driving an F1 car. I think I could manage to not drive an F1 car if I was paid £15m.
Who is driving for who in 2010 - Altea Ego
I think I could not drive it rather better than you.
"Ross Brawn confident Jenson Button will resign" - smokie
So says this Torygraph article.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/je...l

IMO the resign should be hyphenated.
"Ross Brawn confident Jenson Button will resign" - martint123
IMO the resign should be hyphenated.

It is now!
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/je...l

Edited by martint123 on 02/11/2009 at 21:49

Toyota Withdraws from F1 - rtj70
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m

Looks like the Sauber team have their place back.

The fact Williams are using Cosworth engines next season was perhaps a clue.

Edited by rtj70 on 04/11/2009 at 08:35

Renault considers Formula 1 exit - henry k
Not a great surprise.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Renault considers Formula 1 exit - rtj70
No. In fact I always wondered if direct involvement made that much sense.

Engine/drive-train supply yes. But owning a team?

Brawn have done well switching from Honda to MB power so read in to that what you want. But engine/gearbox not so critical. Rear-diffuser....

Maybe it should still be Benetton or similar with Renault engines?
Yamaha and Ben Spies - cheddar
Well done to Yamaha for wrapping up most major two wheel championships this year, Ben Spies pipping (ex Yamaha stalwart) Noriyuki Haga on the Ducati for the world superbike title before running as a wild card in the final MotoGP round at Valencia yesterday where he finished seventh.

Reckon Spies will be one to watch next year.
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - JH
Henry, well done on finding the thread, I was looking for it to add this link but you beat me to it.

With all of the embarrassment that Mercedes have suffered with MacLaren I wondered if this might happen.

JH
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - Altea Ego
mercedes have always had desires to own an f1 team again. Its stems from the days of the pre war silver arrows. Now - with buying a team relatively cheap, they are able to do it again. The cars will of course be silver.

We now need a team, a good team, in BRG and we are back to the days of national rivalry.

Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - henry k
Full statement on McLaren-Mercedes deal
from www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5698461,00.ht...l

An interesting comment
"So after twelve years Ken Tyrrell's team is now the Mercedes factory team. Welcome to the bizarre world of F1! "
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - Westpig
explains why Brawn have faffed with Button
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - Altea Ego
Probably becuase it was damp and cold.

Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - JH
I read that and now my head hurts.

May I recommend "Bernie Ecclestone King of Sport" by Terry Lovell as very revealing on the subject of F1 and general motorsport politics and business / financial shenanigins.

JH
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - JH
By the way, can anyone explain why Home Delivery Network vans are in Brawn GP colours? :-)

JH
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - henry k
>>AE - Its stems from the days of the pre war silver arrows. Now - with buying a team relatively cheap, they are able to do it again. The cars will of course be silver.
>>
Nick Fry says "likelyhood the cars will be painted silver"
MB liked the way the budget was run in Brawn & no more £££s for Button.
They do not need two German drivers etc.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
now with several interviews - Nick Fry, Eddie Jordan
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - Altea Ego
So if Button moves to McClaren, as seems likely, What team gets the No1 on the car. It follows the driver?

What if, button does not get a drive? where does the number 1 go? retired for the season?
Mercedes take ownership of Brawn - rtj70
What team gets the No1 on the car


Mclaren - it does follow the driver doesn't it.

It would be bad if Button did not get a drive - but I'm sure he'll be off to Mclaren too.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Westpig
I actually rate Button and think he's better than some do....obviously Hamilton is top dollar. So it should be quite interesting...albeit it might take Button a while to get bedded in as I understand the individual driver's style can be baulked by the wrong car.

If Button is any good, he'd be expected to be challenging/matching Hamilton by the second half of the season, wouldn't he.

..and i've still to collect my £50 winnings from a relative that bet me Vettel would out perform Button in the '09' season
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Altea Ego
Oh dear, I dont fancy Buttons chances - for the following reasons.

Hamilton is a McClaren boy soldier, been involved in the team for some while. He knows what makes the place tick.

Hamilton is an "edgy driver" he likes the car a bit loose and twitchy, he is a forceful driver.
Button is a smooth driver, likes his cars planted and neutral. Its really tough to get the same car to act in two extremes and you can bet your boots that the MPxx for season 2010 is set up out of the box the hamilton way.

As soon as things go slightly wrong, Button will go all moody and whiney (ala fernando who is now racing for ferrari) and dip out of form.

My money is on button being a one season wonder.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Robin Reliant
My money is on button being a one season wonder.

That's obviously what Brawn (or whatever they're now called) thought too. They never tried that hard to keep him.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Mr.Tee43
I think calling button a "One season wonder" is a bit unfair. F1 is not just about the drivers but mostly about which car has a competitive advantage. Button has shown that given a competitive car, he is as good as anyone.

Where was Hamilton during the first part of the season, usually at the back of the grid because the car was rubbush, same goes for Alonso, Raikkonen and others.

Button was very agressive in the race that made him F1 champion and now he has done it once, give him the right car and he could certainly do it again.

When race after race with the uncompetitve Honda brought no rewards, I don't remember him whining about it, he just quietly got on with the job.

Edited by Mr.Tee43 on 18/11/2009 at 13:05

Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - jbif
... F1 is not just about the drivers but mostly about which car has a competitive advantage. Button has shown that given a competitive car, he is as good as anyone. ... >>


I think Button has yet to prove that. What he did this year was show that given a car far superior to any other [bar Barichello's ] by the order of 1sec a lap, he could beat Barichello in the first third of the season.

I think 2010 is going to be a battle between Alonso, Hamilton, Massa and Vettel. Button's advantage will be in looking after his tyres with a full tank of fuel (as no-refuelling in 2010).

Edited by jbif on 18/11/2009 at 13:22

Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Dynamic Dave
I also think Button will become a "Barrichello" - ie, a page boy and never the groom (2009 excepted). Hamilton is, and always will be the blue eyed boy at Mclaren.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Niallster
Very difficult situation for Jensen. Mercedes (Brawn) will be built around German drivers principally Nico Rosberg. Mclaren are built around Hamilton.

Would have loved to see him drive in the Prancing Horse but a three year deal will probably see him to the end of his career.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - stunorthants26
I think if Jenson has Hamiltons backing, I think he will do fine - fall out with him and watch his car fall to the back of the grid. Still, Jenson is after money and job security and who can blame him. So long as he does pretty good, Im sure he will make his money and retire happy.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - rtj70
Jenson is after money and job security


And he'll get that and retire rich. He should already be pretty rich.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - stunorthants26
Jenson, 4th member of Top Gear maybe...
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Westpig
I don't think Button is going to be a one hit wonder....he's ultra smooth and can really turn it one when he needs to...look at his first win in the wet, that was awesome.

Then, this year despite the collywobbles in Qualifying (in the second half of the year), he kept on it noticeably in every race, grabbing useful points from hopeless start positions.

I agree Hamilton is well settled in McLaren and has the major advantage in that respect and i'm not saying Button will necessarily beat Hamilton...but neither do I think Button will be an 'also ran' and fizzle out.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Westpig
Forgot to say....this year's champion now paired with last year's...on half the money.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - rtj70
Most of the F1 drivers (but not all) given a good car should be competitive - and probably will be. So if McLaren provide a decent car then Button will demonstrate how good a driver he is. But I don't think he's as good as Lewis Hamilton.

It will be interesting how Brawn/Mercedes start next season. They had an excellent start this season by interpreting new rules really well but were caught up by the end. The next season also sees a big change - the need to have a fuel tank big enough to last the race. That must effect the overall package significantly.

Indeed no refuelling could mean more efficient engines make sense even if lower performing. Less fuel = less weight = better handling?
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - henry k
>>The next season also sees a big change - the need to have a fuel tank big enough to last the race. That must effect the overall package significantly.

Tyre changes could be interesting with so little stationary time.
I wonder if there will be even more tyre changes due to the impact of a heavier car.

I have a feeling Jenson will get more benefit from his less aggressive car handling re tyre life. First of all he has to adapt his car from LH set up to his own.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Derfel
Sir Jackie Stewart makes some very good points in the interview as below. Essentially he feels that Button would have been better off staying at Brawn if he had the choice but if there was no choice then McLaren is clearly his best option. It seems that Button will be earning more at McLaren and also has a longer (3 year) contract so doubtless this would have swayed his choice.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m

I do not think that Button has the best of track records when it comes to making wise decisions regarding his career. Witness the debacle when he initially wanted to leave BAR Honda for Williams while still under contract to BAR. Then did not wish to move to Williams when the time came and had to buy himself out of that situation.

Guess it could all work out well for him and his ultra smooth driving style is likely to suit the heavier cars next season in terms of making best use of tyres.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - oilrag
It seems to me that Jenson`s speed was affected by pressure in the latter half of this year.
While pressure seemed to improve Barrichelo`s speed.

There will surely be a lot more pressure next year if driving alongside Lewis. If I were in the position of Brawn/Merc - I think I would have read the runes and very dipomatically conducted negotiations in a way the he would want to move on. Without him losing face and letting him think he were making the choice himself.
Hence no bad press for the team - or at least not as much as if shown the door.

Who was that Japanese driver that stormed past Button in the last race?

He seemed a real `racer`.
Button joins Hamilton at McLaren - Lud
a real `racer`.


Kobayashi-San... I hope someone wants him next year since Toyota has bottled it...

He was running light when he overtook Button who was heavy and just out of the pits. Even so he did well. So did Button.

Edited by Lud on 18/11/2009 at 20:38

Donington - what now? - henry k
Donington firm in administration and the track is dug up.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/8366581...m
Donington - what now? - ifithelps
...Donington firm in administration and the track is dug up...

James May will be keeping a close eye on it for his next series.
Donington - what now? - martint123
Hmm, wonder what's going to happen to both World and British superbike races?
Donington - what now? - bathtub tom
I see tom Wheatcroft kicked the bucket a couple of days after the F1 deal finally fell through.

Cause and effect?
Donington - what now? - henry k
The latest from the BBC

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/8368951...m
Donington - what now? - SpamCan61 {P}
Hopefully they'll move it back to Silverstone, given the time and money spent improving the road infrastructure on that part of the M40 -A43 - A5 over the last 10 years.
Donington - what now? - Altea Ego
Poor old Tom Wheatcroft, No wonder he went to his grave!
Donington - what now? - henry k
Donington given hope to host GP

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Predictions for next year - oilrag
1)Lewis as Champion
2)Brawn/Merc (any driver)
3) Alonso
4) Brawn /Merc (any driver
5) Massa
6? Red Bull ?
7) Button - (qualifying from between 9th & 14th and at McClaren)
8?



Edited by oilrag on 18/11/2009 at 20:09

Predictions for next year - Dynamic Dave
I don't normally point out people's spelling mistakes (although I might correct the occasional typo in subject headers) but can people note that McLaren only has one 'c' in it and not two. Thanks.
Predictions for next year - oilrag
"I don't normally point out people's spelling mistakes (although I might correct the occasional typo in subject headers) but can people note that McLaren only has one 'c' in it and not two. Thanks."

Being disinclined to bother posting only has one `c` in it too Dave.... ( I don`t normally have a go back, but if it`s going to be like being back in primary school, there are other forums)

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/11/2009 at 13:50

Predictions for next year - Dynamic Dave
oilrag, I wasn't singling you out. It was a general comment, not specific to one person.

ps, in case you wondered why I edited you post, I changed the header and tagged it onto my reply, and not Bathtub's - which is discussing a different subject.
Predictions for next year - bathtub tom
Please, no need to be so formal. A small 'b' in bathtub'll do, or even beattie. ;>)

I hope you won't think me pedantic!
2010 British GP - bathtub tom
Anyone heard what's happening?

The last I recall was that Siverstone were given an ultimatum to sign a contract or lose it.
2010 British GP - oilrag
"oilrag, I wasn't singling you out. It was a general comment, not specific to one person."

I was always being singled out at school by Miss Nugent. but I caught the twinkle in her eyes and knew she didn`t mean it.

By the way, a lot of what I wrote above about Button and `laren, yesterday, seems to be in one of the more `orrible tabloids that entered our house today.

Shoved or not. That is the question.....

Edited by oilrag on 19/11/2009 at 14:35

2010 British GP - jbif
"oilrag, I wasn't singling you out. It was a general comment, not specific to one person." >>


oilrag, looks like you pressed the wrong reply button again. {I was going to attempt to reformat this thread, but too many people have since replied and there's a risk of posts going astray if I start unstitching and restitching it back together again}


button, oh yes, are talking about Button's buttons money offered by Brawn.

Autosport are reporting that Brawn are somewhat miffed that Button has departed.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/11/2009 at 21:37

2010 British GP - oilrag
It seems to me that it would not be in Brawns/Merc`s commercial interests to say anything else.
2010 British GP - jbif
.. it would not be in Brawns/Merc`s commercial interests to say anything else. .. >>


This is what Fry reportedly said:

" "I respect his decision," said Fry. "It's not one that I would have made and maybe he has been poorly advised.

"Clearly, loyalty would be nice but in this day and age you don't expect too much of that. I'm always happy when any employee leaves our company if I think that they've made the right decision and they are going to a better job and they always go with our blessing if that is the situation.

"In this situation, we don't understand the logic of the decision and I think Jenson is going to have to up his game if he's going to beat Lewis on home territory."

"Jenson will not be doing anything at all for McLaren until the end of this calendar year," Brawn chief executive officer Nick Fry told AUTOSPORT. "And if he does, we will be looking on it very dimly.

"He didn't have any obligations to us for 2010, but there are issues with regards to the signing process on which we are in discussion with him at the moment.

"There are clear constraints on what Jenson can do between now and the end of the year, which we will be rigorously enforcing." "

Edited by jbif on 19/11/2009 at 15:34

2010 British GP - Derfel
Sounds like they are not too happy about the situation! It really does look as if it has come down to brinkmanship over money at the end of the day: (link made non clickable)

www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/button-si...a
sh-for-half-hamiltons-salary-1823049.html


"As late as Tuesday, Brawn said he would be "amazed" if Button had agreed terms with McLaren. But Button and his management were understood to be furious that, following the takeover, Brawn and team chief executive, Nick Fry ? both of whom, as shareholders in the team, personally made millions from the deal ? refused to raise their salary offer to Button of around £4.5m a year."

Button is apparently on £7.5m at McLaren still around half what they pay Hamilton. Many people would be swayed in their decision making process by the odd £3m pa!

I still think that JYS is correct and that this is not a good move for Button. Career wise he would have been better to stay at Brawn.
2010 British GP - rtj70
I don't think a brilliant move - but for £18m over three years is it that bad?

I bet Button is annoyed perhaps he did not get a share of the company after agreeing the big pay cut. Brawn gets a lot of money from a team he got for very little from Honda. I wonder how much Mercedes would have had to pay Honda if they just bought the the last year. Lets not forget most of the budget for running the team this year came from Honda.
2010 British GP - Derfel
Guess Button feels that as a World Champion, Brawn should have offered him as much as other ex World Champions like Hamilton and Raikonen are paid. Even at McLaren, he is still only on around half of Hamilton's salary and Raikonen was very well paid at Ferrari. Doubtless Alonso is similarly well paid at Ferrari.

Button has put a great deal into the team and put up with some very lean years in dreadful cars. And he had to pay out of his own finances to get out of his commitment to move to Williams. So yes he may well have wanted some stake in the new company.
2010 British GP - oilrag
"Clearly, loyalty would be nice but in this day and age you don't expect too much of that."

If that`s a genuine comment from Fry, (after Buttons previous, years of commitment and salary cut) I wonder how long before Fry exits too?

If I were head of Mercedes F1 - I would want to have a very professional and discrete image projected to the press - and public.
After all - this is now a Silver Arrows works team. It seems to me others, other than Jenson will need to " up their game".

Edited by oilrag on 19/11/2009 at 17:55

2010 British GP - Niallster
Me think Brawn Man speak with forked tongue.

Are they really trying to tell us that MERCEDES couldn't come up with an extra £2 million for someone they really really wanted to keep?

Button was effectively sacked to make way for German drivers.
2010 British GP - Derfel
It may well be the case that Mercedes did want two German drivers. However, there is one thing they will want more than that and that's success. Button is one of the quickest drivers on the grid and the tone of the comments quoted earlier in the thread by jbif shows that they are seriously unhappy about Button's move.

Rosberg is still something of an unknown quantity as he has not had a good enough car to show his potential. His likely team mate, Heidfeld, has been quick on his day but that is about as far as it goes. Button is much more of a known quantity in terms of proven front runners.
2010 British GP - PR {P}
According to Autosport, in an interview with Nick Fry, Jenson has accepted less money to go to McLaren than stay with Brawn / Merc.
2010 British GP - Manatee
>>Are they really trying to tell us that MERCEDES couldn't come up with an extra £2 million for someone they really really wanted to keep?

According to this story, Button could have earned more from Brawn, had he stayed, than he is reportedly getting from McLaren; so perhaps it isn't just venality, unless Jenson has seriously cocked up negotiations.

www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5703584,00.html

Edited by Manatee on 19/11/2009 at 21:30

2010 British GP - oilrag
, "unless Jenson has seriously cocked up negotiations."

Seemingly `fried` his chances at Brawn/Merc by looking around the other team.

It seems indecently vulgar though to me, that Button took a massive pay cut, allegedly paid for his own airfares to races - in economy - yet didn`t seem to benefit from the massive `profit` of multi millions acquired, allegedly by Brawn and Fry.

I can see how Brawn himself was worth it - but Fry?

It seems Button was then cold shouldered on the financial/ contract side of things when he should have been relaxing enjoying his Championship.

Let`s not forget the allegedly booted out Barrichello too - who along with Button gave them the constructors championship.

Don`t bother ringing me up offering a drive, Fry.
2010 British GP - Altea Ego
Don`t bother ringing me up offering a drive Fry.


I get the feeling you dont have a spot on his speed dial, so you should be ok.,
Schumacher to return? - Robin Reliant
Looks like Schumacher and Brawn could be renewing their partnership.

Now that would be interesting, and maybe the reason they didn't try to hold onto Button -

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/br...l

Edited by rtj70 on 20/11/2009 at 15:01

Schumacher to return? - turbo11
Mercedes would certainly raid their piggy bank to get Schumacher. They have wanted him for years.

Edited by rtj70 on 20/11/2009 at 15:01

Schumacher to return? - Altea Ego
wont happen, it want it to, but it wont happen.

Edited by rtj70 on 20/11/2009 at 15:00

Schumacher to return? - Westpig
What a season that would be:

Hamilton and Button in similar machinery

Alonso and Massa in the Ferraris

and then Schumacher in a Brawn.....now that would be rivetting

Edited by rtj70 on 20/11/2009 at 15:00

Schumacher to return? - oilrag
following the drubbing some of us received yesterday from DD - over "Only one `C` in Mclaren" - you guys might be treading on thin ice.

Ho Ho............;0)

Unless you only get into trouble for `additional` letters..........

Edited by rtj70 on 20/11/2009 at 15:00

Schumacher to return? - rtj70
And the L in McLaren is meant to be capitals oilrag ;-)

I'll correct the Schumacher spelling mistakes. Cobblers I say ;-)
Schumacher to return? - Alby Back
I think he might be good enough to be a Cordwainer

;-)
World Rally Championship - Fullchat
I consider myself a bit of a rally enthusiast and have tried to follow the WRC each year.

It seems this year I have failed miserably. By chance I overheard an advert for Citreon claiming Loeb had won the WRC again and also spotted a further advert in todays paper, again for Citreon and Loeb. In the background was a banner which if I read it correctly stated that the Rally GB (RAC for all the fans of proper rallying) was sometime in October.

I have seen nothing on the TV or papers giving a 'heads up' on coming events or even results. Dave used to screen each event put you have to read the smallprint in TV guides as its not a major channel. Have I missed something or is my kind of sport put on the backburner in favour of endless football, reality TV shows and other such bilge?

Edited by Fullchat on 22/11/2009 at 00:30

World Rally Championship - George Porge
Killed off by the corporate brush for me........................

This is propper rallying

www.rogeralbertclarkrally.org/
World Rally Championship - Fullchat
Now you have really depressed me! Half the stages were on my turf. My own fault I suppose, when I gave up rallying and sold all the kit I stopped getting Motoring News as reading that reminded me of what I was missing.
World Rally Championship - cheddar
Loeb won loads in a row, then Hirvonen (spelling?) won loads in a row then Loeb came back and won the last two round to win by a point.
World Rally Championship - RobertyBob
The WRC is still shown on Dave on Sunday afternoon/evenings; including, on occasion, some of the lesser classes. Although they show the main action the presentation can be truly awful.

I seem to recall that Dave Richards of Prodrive had an interest in the WRC TV rights, he doesn't seem to have done much to raise the TV profile though.

Channel 5 shows some British club rallying; usually in the small hours of Tuesday mornings just after the NASCAR racing. The sight of Mk II Escorts, Minis and even Hillman Imps in the forests takes me back to my youth.

World Rally Championship - helmet
I too give up all forms of rallying around 1995,and went on to do things like autograss racing, (Scunny class 4 champion 2006/7) and get 2 of my 3 ham radio licences with hopefully the 3rd and final one next year.

However, an event that I finished joint 3rd overall on circa 1993 takes place next weekend, and that is the Beaver road rally, hosted by Beverley motor club, and I may be going to see how things are, subject to the weather of course.

Edited by helmet on 22/11/2009 at 15:20

World Rally Championship - Fullchat
Helmet our paths may have crossed. I was on the North Lincs rally circuit for several years until 1995 with Grimsby Motor Club.