***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 39 *****
As the title suggests, this thread is for all things Formula One and other general motorsport related stuff.
This is Volume 38.
Usual rules apply. When we get to around 100 posts, the thread will be locked and the next volume will start.
PLEASE NOTE
As with the IHAQ & the Computer threads, When posting a NEW topic, please "Reply to" the first message in this thread, i.e. this one. This keeps each topic in it's own separate segment and stops each new topic from getting mixed up in amongst existing topics. Also please remember to change the subject header.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/02/2010 at 10:27
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Treated myself to a magazine reviewing the various aspects of motorcycle racing in 2009. There was a brief note in it to the effect that, in winning the F1 Championship this year Jenson Button made 13 overtaking manoueuvres in 17 races and Valentino Rossi made 7 in the first 7 laps on the race in which he clinched his 7th World Championship. Thoughts?
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Bike racing even at the highest levels is still a sport. How many bike racing scandals do you hear of ?
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I take your point AE. It is a culture thing, in Italy tax-evasion is a duty, not a scandal He reached a settlement in Feb 08!
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Rossi's tax affairs were nothing compared to Spygate, Liegate and Crashgate.
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Am I the only one who is beginning to loath the current fashion for ending every bit of controvesy with "gate"... why can't the press just report things as they are without giving them stupid nicknames?!!!
(Sorry, C, nothing against your post which I agree with, just the stupid names the press have used! - BTW you forgot Ferrarigate!)
Edited by b308 on 25/11/2009 at 16:49
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Yes xxxgate gets on my nerves it means nothing.
It should be xxstable. As in "cleaning out the stable" "the augeon stable" and "bolting the stable door after"
So we should have
Crashstable, Spystable, liestable.
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>>Ferrarigate>>
What is that then other than the entrance to Maranello?
Yes xxxgate gets on my nerves it means nothing.
Agreed, I was just using the colloquial terms as per the media.
EDIT: spellin'
Edited by cheddar on 25/11/2009 at 17:32
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>>Ferrarigate>> What is that then other than the entrance to Maranello?
Their pit lane escapades a couple of years ago with their super efficent (!) lights instead of the lollipop... perhaps it should be Lollipopgate.... aaargh!!
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To late to loathe b308! It goes back to Watergate and how long ago was that??!!
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'the current fashion for... '
'... gets on my nerves too....'
'Too late to loathe....'
Er, gategate so to speak?
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Meanwhile back in the world of Motorsport.....
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A lot of the overtaking in bike racing is fairly meaningless. They can draft each other like cars and slip by easily because of the room, but it only really counts when the overtaker can break the tow and pull away. Places are often swapped by the two leaders many times during a race, but only the last one matters.
In F1 on the other hand, a single overtake gives a huge advantage.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 27/11/2009 at 18:08
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Yes of course; this is mostly because there is only one overtaking opprtunity per lap on many circuits as opposed to the multiple opportunities for narrower vehicles on every circuit!
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why can't the leaders of Blighty do the same?
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80358
{subject header changed, and detached from BMW sells Sauber post (because it's not discussing either Sauber or BMW) - as per the "Please Note" request at the start of this thread}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/11/2009 at 14:39
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why can't the leaders of Blighty do the same? www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80358
What? Spend some money sensibly?? No chance!
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how long before we have a diesel F1 engine?
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80348
{subject header changed, and detached from BMW sells Sauber post (because it's not discussing either Sauber or BMW) - as per the "Please Note" request at the start of this thread}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/11/2009 at 14:41
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how long before we have a diesel F1 engine?
:-)
Don't think so, WP, they are suited to endurance events but not short sprints like F1... now if we went back to 3 hour GPs like in the 50s....
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how long before we have a diesel F1 engine?
Just imagine the consequences of a diesel spillage in the pits!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/11/2009 at 14:41
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Apparently next year you wont be able to refuel during the race. Does that mean they might look to Diesal ?
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apparently its in the pipe line (not the deisel)
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it's looking good then
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/f1...l
{Header changed, and tagged onto the first post in this thread, as per the "Please Note" request at the start of this thread as it's a new topic, not a continuation of the discussion of diesel engines in F1}
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:35
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it's looking good then
Yes ! Silverstone signs 17-year deal for British Grand Prix "
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/83...m
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:35
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The idea that the new, and preceding world champion, driving for the same team and racing each other, would not appear live in front of 100,000 plus home fans was always inthinkable from any party involved in F1.
Its tempting enough that I may lash out the hundreds of quid required to go and experience that atmosphere.
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...you never know with Bernie...
Never met the man, but I'm sure that's right.
I agree that not having a British GP was 'always unthinkable'.
So it seems to me that just this once Ecclestone didn't hold all the negotiating aces, which has enabled the BRDC to strike a better deal.
What do those who follow the sport more closely than me think?
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:35
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I just hope Silverstone will now finally get around to providing proper lavatory and catering facilities for ordinary people like me, who don't arrive by helicopter and go straight into a business hospitality area.
I also hope the track itself won't be spoiled any more to suit the Scalextric world of modern F1, but I won't hold my breath.
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:35
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Well I will let you know. I have my ticket booked. Pits straight grandstand.
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I might be tempted to go back.
I usually prefer the t.v. because you see a lot more and don't have to mix with everyone else...however, having been there once before when an ex got me in on a corporate package....I have to say the atmosphere and noise etc was fantastic.
... the 2 hour wait to get out of the car park, (even though i'd stayed until the end of all the racing), wasn't so good though....although the new road layout must have improved that, anyone able to give feedback about that bit?
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I usually watch on the tv but in 1993 pushed the boat out and bought tickets for seats in the startline grandstand.
The race was full of incident with about seven changes of the lead, and Senna setting the fastest lap of the race by going straight through the pitlane (in the days before speed limits).
However we saw very little of it since the advertising hoardings that had been erected on the pitwall obscured the view of the pitlane. It was difficult to make out whether cars had gone into the pitlane or fallen off on the lap.
After the race we went home to watch the tv and see what had really happened!
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:36
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Just a small reminder to any footie fans here (unlikely I know). When booking tickets, bear in mind the GP takes place on the same day as the world cup final.
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:36
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Well thats ok then... unless you're German or Brazilian, in which case you are going to have to make a tough decision...
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:36
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Come on b308 have a little faith.
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the GP starts at 14:00 and is finished by 16:00. The World cup final starts at 20:30.
the chances of England being in the final is, well, remote.
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/12/2009 at 23:36
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well, remote.
Quite AE. It is our remotes we will be operating to see all the action - those of us, that is, who can be fundamented - while others thrash around in sleet-lashed, fuzz-harassed, roadwork-delayed traffic jams in the bleak Midlands.
But chacun a son gout my dear fellow.
:o}
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What is the future for Donington ?
It is in a bit of a mess and unuseable at present.
The DT online ( 07 Dec) has an item on it.
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the GP starts at 14:00 and is finished by 16:00. The World cup final starts at 20:30.
AE,
You cannot possibly be a football fan, you have no understanding of the issues. For a 2030 kick off you'd need to be in a pub somewhere by at least midday, so that you'd be bladdered by 1800 and virtually incoherent by 2000....;-)
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WP
I am more of a footie fan than you can imagine. Certainly experienced enough to know that bladdered in the boozer will be over by the group stages.
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There's a photo in today's Telegraph sports section of the first British GP at Silverstone, just at the start. The spectators are standing in a dense crowd along the edge of the track. Many if not most of the cars are ten years old or more (ERAs and GP Maseratis among them).
But they are cars, proper ones that a competent pilot could drive on the road! (I seem to remember Lotus or someone getting into trouble for test-driving GP cars on the M1 as late as the sixties actually). With suspension, damping and crossply tyres giving control over slip angles. Making driver inputs far more important than they are now.
Not (to exaggerate a bit) inverted aircraft that have dodgy handling at less than 100mph and no handling at all once clamped to the track by aerodynamic downforce. Full-size Scalextric handling, either stuck to the track at impossible cornering speeds or flying off it at a helpless tangent once the downforce lets go.
I don't doubt the skill needed to pilot these machines or the ability of the drivers. It's just that the connection with cars and roads becomes ever more tenuous. I'm sentimental about this. Hopeless, I know.
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No it isnt AE have a little faith.
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Renault to continue in Formula 1 after deal is agreed
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
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In the eyes of the French, the Germans have a national team in F1. (the silver arrows mercedes). It would be unthinkable not to have a French national presence under those circumstances.
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Yup. It needs the big battalions to remain what it is. They pay for a lot of the spectacle and help give F1 its sometimes sickening but always sharp emotional edge.
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Renault will race in Formula 1 after selling its team
Details of new ownership etc.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
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F1 drivers to help race stewards adjudicate grands prix
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
Edited by henry k on 11/12/2009 at 15:19
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F1 drivers to help race stewards adjudicate grands prix
And just in case anyone was wondering about the points system comment:
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
Thats getting closer to the Indycar system, first 10 scoring... should prove interesting...
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
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please let it be true in the year I have tickets for Silverstone....
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/12/2009 at 00:24
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please let it be true
I hope it is for your sake AE, not really for mine.
On a different tack, did anyone else see Max Mosley's triumphalist piece on the F1 business in yesterday's Telegraph? Really puts sport in its place (in the bin under the sink).
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It will be interesting to see how Schumacher fares against a younger field, if he returns.
I`m particularly referring to how old Hill was - when up against a much younger Schumacher. I wonder if he will be as good as Hill was against him, while driving as a `sportsman`
Damon had the disadvantage of a late start in motor sport and F1 too, it seems. That could perhaps be balanced against Schumachers recent break.
Seemingly the best car for Schumacher next year too. Just like with Hill when he took the titles (was it two?) then.
I think it just shows how good Damon was, at his age, while up against Schumacher in his prime.
I can see no comparative young competitor for Schumacher next year - although I bet that Kobayashi would have had a go like no other.
What a farce that he may now be serving fish in his fathers restaurant.
Edited by oilrag on 15/12/2009 at 08:00
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It will be a tragedy if Kobayashi doesn't get a drive.
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If the Germans werent so square headedly patriotic, they would have paired Kobi and Schumi in the same team. (Bit like axis powers!)
Those two, the old fox and master, and the young raw aggresive cub would make a dream ticket.
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Agree that if Kobayashi does not get a seat her will be missed, it was good to see an F1 driver be aggressive and drive with conviction. I think Mercedes do need a top draw driver to complete the line up, Rosberg doesn't convince me yet. I know he's done good at Williams with not the best car but at Merc he will be expected to challenge for the top spot and I'm not sure he has the ability to do this week in week out. As regards Schumi coming back, it would be good to see him and Merc finally pair up in F1, its been a long time coming! I'm not his biggest fan (thanks to Adelaide 94) but it would be interesting to see how he compares to Alonso, Hamilton etc.
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Glad to see Kobayashi has got a drive next year - he was one of the most thrilling drivers to watch of the whole year and far more deserving than those happy to pootle along. Good luck to him.
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(AFP)
BERLIN ? Seven-times world champion Michael Schumacher has signed a one-year deal to return to Formula One racing with Mercedes GP for the 2010 season, Bild.de reported on Tuesday evening.
Having retired in 2006, Schumacher, who turns 41 on January 3, will be paid seven million euros (9.9 million US dollars) to be on the grid when the new season starts with the Bahrain Grand Prix on March 14 2010, Bild report.
It will be 1239 days after his last Formula One race in Sao Paulo at the Brazilian Grand Prix and Schumacher joins Mercedes in an all-German racing team after compatriot Nico Rosberg, 24, signed up last month.
Bild report Schumacher signed the deal on Tuesday at Mercedes headquarters in Brackley, England, to return to Formula One having won 91 of his 250 Grand Prix races and started in Pole Position 68 times.
He was due to make a remarkable return last season for Ferrari - for whom he is a consultant - as a replacement for the injured Felipe Massa but was unable to because of a neck injury he suffered in a motorbike accident earlier this year.
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Thank you santa
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AE - how do you think he will do?
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I think, at 40, he will be past it to be honest. I just hope he gets a reasonable start to the season and doesent chicken out before Silverstone
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He's obviously a good driver, but is he as good as his record implies? He wouldn't have won so many world championships if his team mates had been allowed to race fairly, and not always have to give way to him.
It will be interesting to see how he does, now that such blatant team orders are not allowed.
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He's obviously a good driver but is he as good as his record implies?
I don't think so. To win a world championship you need to be in the right car at the right time. He was good enough to choose where to be but a lot of luck comes into it. Where would Jenson Button's place be in F1 history if he had not raced for Brawn this year?
I think he will have lost his edge and I don't think Mercedes will have the best car. But I'm sure all the other drivers will be relishing the chance to mix it with him - including Kobayashi!
Then again I may be wrong.
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They have Sebastian Vettel as a standby i believe.
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Think I might just get some tickets for Silverstone - the prospect of me and the kids being able to see Schuey Hamilton and Button in one race, all with the same engine, is irrisistable!
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schumey is deffo for 2010 ( neck withstanding) lets hope so ....that will give button and hamilton something to worry about ?
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I think it is great, kinda shame it is not with Ferrari once again, reckon they may not have signed Alonso had they bee sure that Schu wanted to come back, after all they had him on contract.
On the otherhand working with Ross Brawn again must be one motivation for Schu.
Button v Hamilton will be interesting as will Massa v Alonso, if Massa is fully fit then he might just get the better of Alonso in the way he did Raik latterly when Raik was seen as the fastest bar Schu when he signed for Ferrari.
Will Red Bull be as strong?
It will surely only be Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Red Bull running at the front consistently this season.
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It will surely only be
Don't you mean 'for sure' cheddar?
I want to know what that Mr Kobayashi will be driving. The only exciting new talent in the season past.
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Silverstone have confirmed they will be showing the world cup final live on the big screens after the race programe has ended.
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Another good reason not to go then...
On the other hand, I suppose there may be less congestion getting away from the race.
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Flavio Briatore's life ban is overturned by a French court? Pat Symonds' five-year ban also quashed
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Flavio Briatore, the former principal of the Renault Formula One team, has had his life ban from motor sport overturned by a French court.
The Italian was banned by the sport's governing body, the FIA, in September for his role in a plot to rig the outcome of the 2008 Singapore grand prix. Renault's former director of engineering, Pat Symonds, has also had his five-year suspension quashed.
However, Briatore and Symonds have only received ?15,000 and ?5,000 each (£13,500 and £4,500) in damages after seeking ?1m and ?500,000 respectively. "The court ruled the sanction was illegal," the judge told the Paris court. The FIA's legal team said it would probably launch an appeal.
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
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Have you seen the fin on the engine cover of the MP4-25 - it is HUGE.
I am not an aerodynamicist but I do question some of these designs when they push the boundary of aerodynamics - they never really worked on some BMWs and Williams in the past. I think once I see the new Brawn car (sorry MB GP) then it will give a datum for aerodynamics for me.
I am going for an early prediction for World Champion as well.
Mr Schumacher and MB GP as constructor champions.
I also predict that Mr Button will be shown for what he really is - a much better driver than me but only Mr average when not in a great car. I predict that lewis will make him look like an amateur.
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I also predict that Mr Button will be shown for what he really is - a much better driver than me but only Mr average when not in a great car. I predict that lewis will make him look like an amateur.
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I'm going to nail my colours to the mast..and predict that Button will do better than many predict. I'm not going to say he'll beat Hamilton, because Hamilton is a very good driver, but neither do I think Hamilton will kick sand in his face, Hamilton can get ragged when under pressure...Once Button's settled in I think his smooth driving style will pay dividends. Why else would he have gone from Brawn to Mclaren, if not to prove a point..and whilst they all believe in themselves to a degree...he must think he can do it.
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Whatever happens, I want to see some rain again this season, adds a bit of spice to the mix, and Hamilton is good in the rain, so is Vettel.
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I also predict that Mr Button will be shown for what he really is -........... I predict that lewis will make him look like an amateur.
Oh no he won't!
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> I predict that lewis will make him look like an amateur. Oh no he won't!
Oh yes he will!
(has the Panto season finished yet?!) :)
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Have you seen the fin on the engine cover of the MP4-25 - it is HUGE. I am not an aerodynamicist but I do question some of these designs when they push the boundary of aerodynamics ............
I did some wind tunnel testing of cars in the early part of my career and I know it's difficult for a layman to estimate the effect of a particular design on the aerodynamic coefficients ~ drag, lift, roll, yaw and pitch. For example, how many people would imagine that the drag coefficient of a Hillman Imp was significantly lower than that of a Jaguar E-Type? You can't just go by looks unless you know what you're doing.
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For example how many people would imagine that the drag coefficient of a Hillman Imp was significantly lower than that of a Jaguar E-Type?
Not me! Out of interest, can you remember what the values were? I vaguely remember a Cd(?) of 0.3 being quite good, but could be wrong.
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The Imp was 0.38, which was good at the time. I think the E-Type was more like 0.45. One reason the Imp was so good was that the flat front gave less resistance to the air than in a front engined car where the air has to pass through a radiator and then out via a tortuous route past the engine.
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The Imp was 0.38 which was good at the time...
Interesting, thanks.
EDIT: F1 cars are pretty bad aren't they, because of all the downforce they generate?
Edited by Focus {P} on 05/02/2010 at 09:52
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I remember the Calibra had the lowest drag coefficient for a road car at the time. Due to tyre widths, the 8v was better than the 16v.
I'm not sure some of the methods of creating downforce (Venturi effect I think - also referred to as ground effect) make F1 cars poor in terms of aerodynamics. The big wings do and they vary these according to track - some they go for less downforce from the wing for higher top speeds on the straights.
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"He looks far younger than 41."
Plastic surgery? Botox?
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High-res photos of McLaren MP4-25
www.mclaren.com/mediaroom/2010-launch.php
Details of changes (tabs for other details - both at top of page and in the middle of page)
www.mclaren.com/f1season/2010/presspack2010/tech-s...p
some extracts:
"The dorsal fin that attaches the top body to the rear wing is very striking – what does it do?
Tim Goss: “The principal knock-on effect of the larger fuel tank was the repositioning of some of the car’s internals. One of the outcomes of that was a decision to move some of the car’s cooling to sit centrally at the rear of the car.
“The dorsal fin is partly to accommodate the additional cooling duct and partly a logical development of the high-downforce wing we ran last year at races like Monaco, which feeds air more efficiently to the rear wing upper element. They’re both quite simple solutions, but they’re actually very neat.”
....
The drivers will be carrying twice as much fuel at the start of each grand prix as they were last year, how will that affect the car’s handling and balance characteristics?
Paddy Lowe: “The biggest problem is just the sheer weight of the fuel – it obviously increases the stopping distance quite considerably. Running with high fuel puts demands on braking – and it means you have to design the brake discs and pads to overcome that. And with a narrower front tyre, you’ll lose grip, which will change the fundamental balance of the car. So we’ve looked at weight distribution, aero balance and mechanical balance in order to compensate for grip balance moving rearwards.”
At the live launch, paddy Lowe said also that the full tank of fuel means that the fuel inthe tank gets progressively hotter as the race goes on, and they have to try to keep it cooled.
For side by side comparisons, see
www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/28/2010-ferrari-f10-20.../
www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/29/mclaren-and-ferrari.../
www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/01/29/compare-the-new-mcl.../
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Well I hope they get it "right" a little better than last season!
I'm just worried that we'll have all this hype and then one team will have a car which is way better than everyone elses and we'll end up with a procession...
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Schumacher 0.968s off the pace
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/84...m
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Schumacher 0.968s off the pace >>
All the teams and drivers are claiming that these are preliminary figures which should be viewed cautiously. However, they do indicate some strong trends. for example, the Ferrari engine seems to be working very well in the works team as well as the client "BMW Sauber" team. Similarly the Mercedes engine in the works Mercedes (Brawn) and the client Vodafone-McLaren. Also, Vettel and Red-Bull have yet to show their hand.
I think the more interesting figures are the differences between team mates:
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81247
Alonso quicker than Massa by quarter sec, Kobayashi marginally quicker than Pedro, Hamilton 0.7 sec quicker than Button, Schumacher 0.46 sec quicker than Rosberg.
Ferrari quicker by approx half sec than Sauber, three quarters sec than McLaren, and 1 sec than Mercedes.
Based on the test performance, Sauber must be really pleased to have signed Kobayashi.
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why do F1 teams battle every year to get the best aerodynamics set up? surely its a finite science...is there a magic formula or are they still trying to find it....theve had long enough
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Its a finite science within the boundaries of the construction regs. These change every year so every year they have to find how to make the car as quick as possible!
This year it's back to larger fuel tanks which will have an effect on how the cars perform.
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They've had long enough.
Not as long as the manufacturers have had to produce the perfect road car.
And every time the F1 teams get close to unlocking the secret the governing body changes the rules and sends everyone back to GO.
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I,m buying my neighbor a £5 bet on Lewis Hamilton winning the F1 championship. (birthday present) Does anyone know what sort of odds i,d get?
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Depends on how well the cars pan out in the first few races. I'm hoping he'll be amongst the front runners.
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check out an online bookie all odds freely available - currently 10/3
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check out an online bookie all odds freely available - currently 10/3
I had some fun with a free bet on Betfair (one of the online bookies) a year or 2 ago - I can see how people get hooked. Their odds are currently 5.3, or 9/2, and I'm such an expert gambler I don't even know if that's better than 10/3 or not...
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check out an online bookie all odds freely available - currently 10/3
Shouldn't that be 100/30, Burlington Bertie?
If the decimalisation of odds goes ahead it will be 4.33, apparently because the innumerate will find it easier. One of the few benefits of the bookies is to teach arithmetic - even that's going now!
10/3 doesn't sound bad odds though. I think he'll have the legs of Button?
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10/3 doesn't sound bad odds though.
And is 9/2 better?
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>>And is 9/2 better?
Yes ;-)
In decimal that would be 5.5 - i.e., if you put a pound on and won you'd get £5.50 back.
Just noticed you've already given this as 5.3 - don't understand that, maybe it's the tax coming back! Only just come across the decimal odds story. Maybe they're just jizzing the aforementioned innumerates.
Edited by Manatee on 04/02/2010 at 21:53
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Just noticed you've already given this as 5.3 - don't understand that maybe it's the tax.
They give the odds as 5.3, and offer a conversion tool which came up with 9/2 - perhaps that's just an approximation.
Also I seem to remember the figures they gave didn't include the return of your bet, which threw me as that was one of the things I did know. I got excited because it looked like you could place lots of bets on the runners in a horse race and be guaranteed to make a profit. Seemed too good to be true - and it was.
Edited by Focus {P} on 04/02/2010 at 21:58
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>>hey give the odds as 5.3, and offer a conversion tool which came up with 9/2 - perhaps that's just an approximation.
Must be - he's now showing at 5.4, also given a 9/2. I'd rather have 9/2!
Button is 17 (16/1) so I'm obviously not the only one who thinks Hamilton will come out on top.
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well i don't know about you lot i can't wait for it to start. Like Ross Brawn says it will be interesting to see how the races pan out.
Also i think Jensen is not to be underestimated, but Lewis is very good as well. Schumaker can;t see him doing anything. I think that lad at sauber will give a few suprises this season is it Koblashi or something.
{Tagged onto the other discussion going on as this hasn't anything to to with the Le Mans one. Looks like the "Please Note" request at the start of this thread was ignored once again!}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/02/2010 at 00:26
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Mr Kobayashi already fairly on the pace. Never mind the heavy sugar. I dig the real go-for-it rookies with terrific bottle and delicacy. Not too much delicacy by any means though. Man to watch I think.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/02/2010 at 00:26
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Mr Kobayashi .........
You mean Kobayashi-san.
;-)
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The list of entries was announced today, www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans/pages/engages_fr.html
Check out who's driving car 5. It obviously runs in the blood...
Edited by smokie on 04/02/2010 at 21:49
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Well as long as its not a Mondeo he's racing there's a chance he won't wreck it! :)
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