Now, before I state my case, as a 52 year old, I will admit to my earlier sins.
I regularly cycled in the great City of Birmingham between 1975 and 1980 and some would have described me as an urban cycle terrorist. In fact, I was not, but I did have a fairly aggressive attitude. I never cycled on pavements and always obeyed traffic lights and road signs. However, I was very fit then and could out-accelerate many vehicles up to 15-20 mph in those days, which upset folk. I also indulged in inebrietated cycling. Great fun as your licence was not at great risk and the alcohol relieved the pain in your muscles, so you went even faster!
Today, I ventured into the lesser City of Sunderland on my son's mountain bike. It wasn't raining when I set off but was chucking it down when I came home. I didn't see another cyclist, even though it was coming home from school time.
I might as well have been invisible. So many drivers pulled out in front of me. However, the biggest worry was the drivers at traffic lights who turned left when the lights changed but had not been signalling.
Now, years ago, I would have pulled up on their nearside and, had I done this today, I would have been knocked off my cycle. Fortunately, my policy is now to distrust everyone and sit behind their vehicles to see what they might do.
For a while now, I've wondered why scooter riders just sit in the queue rather than ride to the front and take advantage of their narrow vehicles. I think I know now why they do this.
Use 2 wheels to save the environment? No, use 4 wheels and save your life.
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What impressed me during one of my summer hols were the vast numbers of cyclists in the Low countries - used for all reasons - why can't we be like them ?
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Worth pointing out that if the left-hand lane is a left-only filter, AFAIK users of that lane are under no obligation to indicate left, and you as a cyclist are in fact in the wrong lane.
I've had more than a few occasions when I've been sitting at a junction in the lorry indicating left, and had a cyclist come up on the nearside of me. I once actually got out to caution a cyclist (hardly needed as the side repeater was flashing just by his face) and got a mouthful of abuse for my trouble.
Being a two-wheeler (albeit powered) myself I do look out for cyclists perhaps more than some others, but sometimes they don't help themselves.
Edited by Harleyman on 20/10/2009 at 18:19
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Worth pointing out that if the left-hand lane is a left-only filter AFAIK users of that lane are under no obligation to indicate left and you as a cyclist are in fact in the wrong lane.
Harleyman, I wouldn't dream of sitting to the left of a driver in a left only filter lane if I wanted to go straight ahead.
These situations were in the centre of Sunderland, single lanes only and if the drivers in front of me had been signalling I could have moved up on their offside and cycled off at the change of lights.
I even got funny looks, though some respect, when I gave hand signals. Remember those, you stick your arm out when you intend to turn!!
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the vast numbers of cyclists in the Low countries - used for all reasons - why can't we be like them ?
Its flat and round here it isn't.
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I think that's an excuse - plenty of flat areas in the UK, bikes are far more of a social leveller over there - they don't seem tied into the fashion image as cyclists are in the UK.
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I think that's an excuse - plenty of flat areas in the UK bikes are far more of a social leveller over there -
Maybe in flat areas, but where I live its more "comfortable" to walk than cycle... if I wanted to be a sweaty pig I'd cycle!
I agree that there's a lot we could do, though traffic volme is a lot higher in England than abroad, roads are narrower, etc, so there's a lot going against them when compared to the flat wide raod expances of Holland and Belgium...
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I couldn't agree more, drivers' attitude to cyclists is often dreadful in my recent experience.
Of course many cyclists don't help the cause - e.g. dressed in black with no lights jumping on and off the pavement in the dark or in fact just riding on pavements full stop......
So, a plea:
It can't be SO hard to have a little courtesy can it ? I wear a high-viz cycling coat, helmet and have multiple lights but would still appear to be invisible or maybe just some kind of inconvenience to motorists.
I also drive 30K miles a year so am more of a motorist than a cyclist I'd contend, I wish we had the foresight / space / money to build separate cycle 'roads' like the in Holland (with associated laws and culture of cycle-friendliness by motorists), but we don't and so perhaps have to learn to get along a bit better for all our sakes if cycle usage is to increase one day - to the benefit of all our health and environment ?
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Naturally I don't want to collide with a cyclist or run one over, and so far have only hit one, not very hard, but haven't run one over although many cyclists in this town do their best to be invisible and follow unexpected paths on and off the road.
Same with motor bikes. Always look both ways, cautiously, when crossing a major road. Nevertheless yesterday, in traffic, crossing a small major road near here at dusk, heard an angry horn and there was one of these modern urban scooteristas who had appeared apparently out of nowhere going, as they do, quite fast towards the n/s of the car.
I couldn't even wave an apology. Couldn't work out how I hadn't seen him. Kept thinking of that TV ad with the motorbike slamming into the driver's door of the car having not been seen.
Traffic is a distraction. Lights at dusk are a distraction. A lot of scooterists and bikers go a bit too quickly for their own good. To be sure you need to triple-check. Even then you might get it wrong. Bit of a pain.
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Separate cycle tracks seem a good idea, in fact Hampshire recently spent £6million building one between Ashurst and Lyndhurst. The local game is to spot a cyclist using it, rather than the road. My tally this month? None - they have all been on the road.
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Whole areas of the West End and Bloomsbury have been squeezed by the building of separate cycle lanes which, as deepwith says, are under-used in general. So the roads have been made to flow much worse for motor traffic without any corresponding advantage to anyone else.
There isn't room for them in London.
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Correction- with the excellent public transport system in London, there isn't room (or reason) for the private car.
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with the excellent public transport system in London, there isn't room (or reason) for the private car.
Even if that was true, London residents would still need or want cars freaky.
Quite apart from the unused space-guzzling cycle lanes in the West End, there are many painted on roads outside the parking slots that are too narrow for safety. There are lanes like that on both sides of the road where I live. Of course they end, or turn sharply into the carriageway, in all the many places where the local authority has built the pavements out into the road.
Reducing the available road area by widening pavements and bollards squeezes motor traffic and makes the streets less not more safe for cyclists. I am not one of those who complain about (reasonably considerate) pavement cycling. It is forced on London cyclists sometimes.
I do complain very bitterly about the irrational, apparently malevolent road policies followed by London local authorities. If cyclists believe these are done with their well-being in view they should take a long hard look at the results.
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Reducing the available road area by widening pavements and bollards squeezes motor traffic and makes the streets less not more safe for cyclists. >> I do complain very bitterly about the irrational apparently malevolent road policies followed by London local authorities. If cyclists believe these are done with their well-being in view they should take a long hard look at the results.
>>
As a cyclist and (thank goodness ) an ex Londoner, I fully agree with you Lud. The trouble is that local authorities have been taken over to a large extent by left-wing car hating freaks. If they went back to doing what they were elected to do, making sure the bins were empied and the traffic lights operated properly etc we would all be better off.
Edited by Webmaster on 22/10/2009 at 02:39
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Separate cycle tracks seem a good idea in fact Hampshire recently spent £6million building one between Ashurst and Lyndhurst. The local game is to spot a cyclist using it rather than the road. My tally this month? None - they have all been on the road.
Similar round here. Problem is they're often an addition to existing footpaths rather than proper cycleways, and as such the cyclist has to negotiate dropped kerbs and the like more often than on the road. There is also very rarely a penalty for using the road, and if there is the police rarely enforce it.
In general, cycle tracks are planned for cyclists like town centres are for delivery vehicles; with the user as an afterthought.
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There is also very rarely a penalty for using the road and if there is the police rarely enforce it.
Unless cycling is prohibited on the road (very rare except for M/Ways) then ther is never a penalty to enforce. This makes excellent sense as the cycling route is slow and labourious for exactly the reasons you mention.
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Separate cycle tracks seem a good idea in fact Hampshire recently spent £6million building one between Ashurst and Lyndhurst. The local game is to spot a cyclist using it rather than the road. My tally this month? None - they have all been on the road.
So we have to ask why?. Is it badly signed, badly surfaced, indirect or some combo of all of these?
Surveys of why folks don't cycle mostly produce answers about fear of traffic and the need to avoid scary cars/buses/trucks. Militants like me might continue to use the road 'cos we ride fast and feel confident enough to tackle traffic etc. But, particularly in an area like the New Forest with hordes of renters and folks who've ferried the bike in on a car segregated tracks should be a winner.
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Couldn't help noticing that cycle paths in Holland had pretty little miniature street lights - nice.
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It appears well sign-posted, has no roads crossing it, runs beside the road and is not really somewhere a lot of renters/holiday makers would go - it is the main way into Southampton. I suspect the surface is not quite as good as the road, cannot see any other reason. This track took a considerable time to build, totally disrupting the traffic but the end result was going to be good. Except it isn't.
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indulged in inebrietated cycling ...
And still indulge in inebriated typing? :-)
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I bit the bullet and bought a 900 lumen HID headlight for the bike, and a 2 watt red LED rear light. I've had a bit of abuse about dazzling people (the light is tilted upwards slightly), but at least they've seen me. I use it when riding in traffic whether it's day or night.
Even with all that light people still blindly pull out in front of you. I wonder if the brain is conditioned to look for cars, and anything else is ignored.
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Even with all that light people still blindly pull out in front of you. I wonder if the brain is conditioned to look for cars and anything else is ignored.
Many in the world of motorcycling would agree with that, David; since the CBT made it impossible to simply jump on a moped and ride off, and cheap cars became available for teenagers, fewer people have ridden a two-wheeler and by definition do not think about them.
I do wonder, though, now that scooters have become more popular again will this reverse the trend; I do hope so.
Before anyone jumps on me, I do think the CBT was long overdue!
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As a keen cyclist for over 20 years ive been lucky to have never been knocked off my bike, especially as ive only started wearing a helmet the last 6 months or so (hangs head in shame). Ive had some near misses but nothing serious, maybe its something to do with they eyes that you grow in the back of your head when you get on 2 wheels ?
Also, its quite rare to see someone riding without a helmet which i believe can only be a good thing.
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Also its quite rare to see someone riding without a helmet which i believe can only be a good thing.
I ride without a helmet, as I have done for over forty years.
Interestingly enough, the pictures of the professional teams riding through London traffic just before the '07 TdF showed most of them to be bare headed too.
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I have done about 700 miles since July on my bike, cycling to and from work mostly. Pretty much on the same roads that I would use when driving.
I have found that being on a bike keeps you alert all the time, esp in city traffic. There is no day dreaming or going into trances like you do behind the wheel.
Always have to expect the unexpected.
I pretty much keep to the road and obey all laws apart from a few junctions where I come up onto the pavement and cross junction there and then back onto the road. This of course is done safely, no risk to pedestrians etc. I firmly believe it is in my, and vehicles, best interests that I am not sitting at the traffic lights with them, holding them up as they move away, turning corners etc etc.
It can be pretty scary sitting at traffic lights on London Road with two lanes of traffic revving up to do their Grand Prix start and sprint to the next set of lights to do the same thing all over again. Interestingly, I can complete the final 5 miles of my journey faster on the bike than in the car due to the joys of rush hour traffic!
Of course all this was irrelevant one day back in Sept when I got knocked off my bike by a pedestrian! For anyone who knows the East end of Glasgow, I managed to collide with the only person from that area who was sober, clean of drugs and not a litter lout! He was crossing the road to put a can in the bin, I saw him, I shouted, we made eye contact, he stopped so I carried on cycling and just as I got level with him he started walking again and bundled me off my bike!
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the goverment is actively engaged in promoting cycling. ill wager we see an increase in cycle fatalaties
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the goverment is actively engaged in promoting cycling. ill wager we see an increase in cycle fatalaties
Critcal Mass. Once cyclists are a significant and noticeable part of traffic motorised drivers pay more attention. Cycling in London has more than doubled in the last decade. The number of HGV fatalities is extremely worrying but otherwise accident stats have been remarkably stable.
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As a regular user of ny feet, my bicycle and my car I find it prudent to assume that most other road and pavement users are probably stupid. If you travel with that firmly in mind it is possible to remain mostly safe.
Having said that, I thought I must be in the invisible car tonight when I went for a swim. I was waiting at a red light in our local town when an old hatchback something with a couple of young jack-the-lads in it slithered to a noisy and more or less sideways halt on the wet road behind me. It stopped within a hair's breadth of my back bumper. Even following that incident it proceeded to tailgate me for a good mile, its headlights rendered invisible due to the proximity to the back of my car....
Glad I wasn't on my bike.
"Flippin' Nora !" or something like that .....I murmered...........
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 20/10/2009 at 23:20
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I cycle about once every two weeks into my office on the fringe of Manchester City Centre. I wear reflective straps around my ankles as trouser clips and a reflective bright green waistcoat. My bright rear light is always on as is my front white LED torch. However I still feel vulnerable as some drivers seem not to know what to do with a cyclist. They hold back, when I want them to overtake, and they overtake, when I want them to hold back - its all a matter about knowing where they are at a particular point.
That said, tonight on a dark wet evening, I showed my son a good example of a cyclist, with a bright white flashing front LED torch. Only problem, was at the rear he was invisible. No reflector of any description on his clothing or bike, and no red light either. Crazy...
I do enjoy cycling and occasionally get to fit in the odd appointment on my bike if its not too far away. I get the expected laugh when I turn up all togged up in my 'gear' but people seem to appreciate it as well.
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ah but Sunderland
the miles and miles of "cycle path" on the coast road, achieved by splitting the footpath in two and painting one half up as cyclists only
only problem being that often the path (both halfs) is too thin for the many folk walking the route
and the other problem being that you can go days without seeing a single cyclist using their half
then we get into the mad fast cyclists who seem to think this lane gives them permission to ride at 30 mph into pedestrians
ah yea the joys of Sunderland
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It just crossed my mind (it didnt take long i can assure you)... but is it illegal to ride a bike in a bus lane because they're almost always void of buses..
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Where I live there is a massive amount of cyclists. Lots of save the planet sort of people eating veg they grew them selves and generaly living a life style completly different to my unhealthy northern style take away every two nights one.
The point is you do get used to it :). When ever am about to pull out or do anything its always think bike first then car.
I still get over taking a bit wrong I always give enough space but then by doing so sort of get a bit stuck I think this will all come with experience. I've seen a fair few accidents on bikes too.
The strangest one was when a man was pushing his cycle across a pedistrian crossing, the car didn't stop at the red light and ran his bike over. Was a very bizzare scene.
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I've been coerced onto a bicycle over the summer - whilst I've enjoyed my times astride it, I generally find it too hazardous for comfort - and won't mix it with traffic. For goodness sake my other bike has 105 bhp, linked power brakes with ABS and proper gears !
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My bike is just rusting in the garden needing an innertube and a new chain. I've mentioned countless times on here but I just don't have the room for it in the shed anymore. I don't feel safe with it on the roads but I do live very close to lots of lovely countryside (despite being in the middle of the city) and I only need to travel on the roads for less than half a mile to get to it.
A fold up bike is the answer but they are too expensive but I could stick it in the back of my cae then. I have a feeling I am going to cheat and buy an excercise bike though that way no moron can crash into me :).
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No room in the house though for a full size bike, no room in the shed. It is the wrong time of year anyway now for that :(. I do miss a nice gentle 6 mile 15mph cycle through the meadows though following the banks of the Mersey.
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Commuting done on my bicycle every day without rain- 5 miles each way- travelling time down to 22 minutes there, 24 minutes back(quicker if I feel really active). Bike has front & rear lights, rucksack has flashing lights front & rear, rider wears luminous cycling jacket from Aldi. Weight dropped 13-16 lbs with no loss of food/beer intake.
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For a demonstration of all levels of cycling proficiency, just visit Cambridge city centre - particularly during the tourist season.
Red light running and pavement usage by aggressive, sanctimonious 'greens' - cheek-by-jowl with lightless inebriated tourists riding four abreast the wrong way up a one-way street at 11pm.
Not that it bothers me, particularly :-)
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If you love cycling and want to be heard, google Airzound.
They're compressed air powered bike horns that you pump up with a normal bike tyre pump. Very loud and great to use when some prize richard head is about to reverse from his drive into your path.
I wouldn't be without mine.
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"Red light running" - its never been known for our highly trained and super competent car drivers to bust red lights of course- not that I condone such actions. Ditto the actions of the inebriated- can we hold the majority responsible for the actions of th minority?
You missed out that cyclists do not pay road tax(but produce less than 99g/km co2 and would qualify for free road tax anyway- and use the road by right- as opposed to by licence) and do not pay insurance ( although most cyclists are covered by their house insurance)
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Similar thoughts from me FreakyBacon.
It's funny how a thread that starts off with someone discussing what a hard time they've had as a cyclist quickly turns into the usual dismal bigotry, pointing accusing fingers at all cyclists as if there has never been a car driver who has done wrong or displays bad habits!
I stop at red lights, don't ride drunk, do my best to see and be seen, don't wear Lycra(!!), and still I have muppets trying to knock me off, cut me up etc.
A situation which is getting worse thanks to an increasing number of adults with little or no cycling experience I expect.
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Does anyone remember the cycling proficiency test that we used to do in the school playground?
What a useful test that was!
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Mind it dosnt help that quite a few towns over here have so called "cycle lanes"
which at the point where the road narrows due to central reservations are only the bare width of the bicycle handlebars
And barely the width left over for a car yet alone a truck
But... hey.... they are cycle paths
PS
I used to cycle in Belfast as a rich student
Edited by dieseldogg on 21/10/2009 at 16:38
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I did that. Still available but whether any schools do it, I don't know.
tinyurl.com/ywfrw5
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"got a certificate or summat?"
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The other favourite with local authorities is a 'cycle lane' which consists of some signs on the pavement saying it is a cycle lane.
If you try and ride on it, you get shouted at by pedestrians who think you are on the pavement, and have to dodge random bits of street furniture, or stop completely because two mums with pushchairs are having a chat.
Or the contra-flow cycle lanes in one way streets, which are used as free parking by white van men and taxi drivers, forcing you to veer into oncoming traffic and get shouted at for going the wrong way down a one way street (sometimes also happens even if you are in the cycle lane).
If local authorities put in proper provision for cyclists, life would be a lot pleasanter for all road users, more people would cycle, and the few aggressive idiots on cycles would be shown to be the minority they actually are.
Whereas at the moment they are the only people mad enough to risk cycling in many urban settings.
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As the conversation has moved on to cycle lanes- does anyone know if there are funds that can be accessed by a council- from our government or the european union- by having a set distance of cycle lanes?
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did read somewhere that leighton buzzard was given a bundle of goverment money to in stall cycle lanes and promote cycling, . it is a quite town ,with flat roads and most people live lesss than 5 minute ride from town. most car drivers ignore the cycle lanes ,dont know why, also theyve gone overboard with humps and zebra crossings.
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Anti-social cycling etc is covered by number four in a list of 7 recommendations, in the PAC report. tinyurl.com/ygtezuc The report also mentions the perception that certain cyclists risk injury by red light jumping. Neither aspect, illegal use of the pavement, nor red light jumping is the monopoly of cyclists alone. The first 3 recommendations emphasised the risk to vulnerable road users, with steps suggested to reduce the incidence of death and injuries. How odd that the BBC pick on one aspect. Perceptions indeed.
Edited by nortones2 on 22/10/2009 at 12:17
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I saw someone actually driving their car several hundred yards down a pavement today at approx 25mph or so, or more accurately, half on the pavement, half off. They appeared to be lost...
Why isn't there more uproar about pavement driving? ;)
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Interesting that the report refers to the DfT being unaware of a strongly held perception that some cyclists are a hazard to themselves and others.
I suspect the perception is largely based on, and sustained by, reports like that of the BBC which emphasise this particular issue over and above other, arguably more significant content in the report.
Personally, as a daily cyclist, I've no time at all for pavement riders and only limited sympathy with justifications for red light running. However I cannot say that when walking around in London or at home I'm regularly troubled by bikes. I see them and occasionally suggest loudly that they're big enough to be on the road, but they're rarely fast enough to be a threat.
How much real evidence (from injury stats etc) backs up the perception?
Edited by Bromptonaut on 22/10/2009 at 21:25
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The passage re perception appears to emanate from the MP for Skipton: Curry by name. He appears to have been offended by cyclists whizzing along, but more sanguine about motors in the same vicinity at higher velocity and mass. All the figures for KSI on pavements are heavily weighted towards cars/trucks. IIRC, 34 deaths on pavements per annum from cars. There was one regrettable and well pubilcised incident where a cyclists caused a fatal - possibly in the last year.
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8320036.stm
"Cycling plan targets new mothers
A campaign to recruit more than 1,000 cycling instructors has been launched, focusing on mothers returning to work."
EDIT:
"Bikeability is quite unlike the old cycling proficiency scheme and instead offers real on the road training. That's why we want parents not only to welcome Bikeability training for their own children but to actively become part of its delivery."
Edited by Focus {P} on 23/10/2009 at 09:41
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I grew up in the Netherlands and was riding a bicycle on the road and cycle paths at age of six.I used to cycle for over ten years to work and back about 15 miles everyday in the uk.We need in this country proper cycle paths first no silly lines on the road.Better awareness by care drivers and cyclist it means spending money.I must admit cycling in this country is a suicide mission.My daugther years ago got her a bicycle spend time with her on the road cycling ,made no difference some idiot in our cul de sac driving to fast did nearly kill her.This year went cycling with my brother me 60 he is 56 enjoyed our bike ride in Assen ,plenty of cycle paths .
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