JR, lets just get you straight on one thing before we go any further... from what you've said the road outside your house sounds like it is adopted and maintained my the local council... therefore you have NO rights to claim that the bit outside your house is yours, and yours alone, to park on it. That is a often quoted misconception... anyone can park there as long as they don't block you in!
From what you have said they have acted completely legally, the bay does not block your drive and the only reason i can see for you objecting to it is you would prefer to be able to park your vehicle there! ("why should i have to park it somewhere else "). As far as I know they don't have to consult you about putting in a bay which does not affect access to your property and is on a public road.
If she is not genuine then report it and the reasons why, but from what you've said about the sloping drive, etc, it seems that she may well be genuine and that would not be suitable for use on a daily basis. I'm sure that the caravan use is only on the odd occassion, and with many people with mobility complaints it can vary considerably from day to day which would explain the occassional trip to the 'van.
Might I offer a possible solution?
As they will not be using the 'van all the time why don't you ask if its possible to park in front of their drive... obviously with the rider that you will shift it straight away if required?
At the end of the day they are ensuring that a person with special needs has somewhere guaranteed to park close to their house and it will make their life easier... you've said yourself that you've allowed them to park infront of your drive before now, which to me indicates that they have had problems parking in the past... I'd learn to live with it, after all, you never know, you might just need it yourself in the future!!
Edited by b308 on 18/07/2009 at 11:08
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When my Grandad was alive, he and Grandma could only walk a few steps, but could not get a disabled badge. snip - party politics
If you find the laws regarding these bays and whether or not legal restrictions need to be in place specifically for that location or not, also remember that there may be byelaws that you will need to check.
Edited by Pugugly on 18/07/2009 at 18:14
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As an aside, the situation may be different in Scotland. When I lived there, I owned the road outside my house to the centre but it was still an adopted road. Don't think it changes the practicalities but may alter the punctuation!
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Hamsafar, for many many years it has been possible to qualify for a BB if you can "only walk a few steps". They would have needed to ring the Council to get the forms, filled them in plus two passport type photos and get their GP to complete the forms - send it off with the appropriate fee. I suspect they either did not know how to go about getting a BB or their GP/Health Visitor did not consider them entitled to one.
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Deepwith, it was something to do with them being too old to qualify for a prerequisite Disability Living Allowance benefit or something like that. If you are over 65 when you first apply, you don't stand much chance unless you have no use of arms or are blind. My advice to infirm people is to get one before you are 65, maybe this is another reason for such proliferation, stupid rules.
www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTra...1
Edited by Hamsafar on 18/07/2009 at 13:53
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Hamsafar, Yes, they would not have qualified for DLA but could have qualified for a BB on grounds of infirmity. As I say, it was down to bad advice, as the BB is not totally confined to those on DLA as there certainly would not be the 'Grey Brigade' who feel their need is greater than anyone younger. I had a long discussion (and gained information) about this with a social worker working with special needs young people aged over 16.
Edited by deepwith on 18/07/2009 at 14:24
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@b308
I'm not seeing it the same way as you. The OP is concedes that the bay is legal and is not even questioning the genuineness of the neighbours disability, nor claiming ownership or 'rights' over the road. It sounds like the bay could have been placed in a different location that would be no more or less convenient for her disabled neighbours but would still enable her family to park the van outside the front of the house.
If the facts are as given by the OP then morally that bay should be in a different place.
Maybe speak to the disabled neighbour and ask them to ask the authorities to move the bay?
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From what has been said it is on the road outside both houses (stradling the centre line between the two) and does not block either drives or impinge on the dropped kerbs... the impression I got was that the OP wanted it moving away from the front altogether... somewhere along the road! Perhaps the OP would clarify if it was possible before to park two vehicles end on end and NOT block the dropped kerbs?
But as I and others have said without seeing it in the flesh its difficult to make any meaningful comment re that...
As for the BB scheme, I am in full agreement with the recent posters, its far too easy to get one these days... even easier than DLA, though I doubt MrX would agree! ;-)
Edited by b308 on 18/07/2009 at 16:04
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If there's a dropped kerb outside the neighbours house then there was no need for a parking bay...................................
More wasted tax payers money
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Not necessarily... the sloping drive is a good reason not to use the drive for parking for certain types of disabilty, Dox... My wife would have difficulty getting in and out of a car if it was on a slope.
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Not necessarily... the sloping drive is a good reason not to use the drive for parking for certain types of disabilty Dox... My wife would have difficulty getting in and out of a car if it was on a slope.
I never mentioned parking on the drive, the kerb is dropped so people can't obstruct the drive so the neighbour already had reserved parking.
My 84 Y-O mother has bad knees (ones been replaced, she's "too old" to have the other one done!), her drive slopes steeply, she manages
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Sorry Dox, don't follow you - the OP was the one that mentioned the drive was sloping and all I said is that could be a valid reason for them not using the drive to park on and have to get in and out of a car that is on a slope on a regular basis... so despite having space on the drive it may not be suitable, therefore the bay is provided on the road.
As for your mother, I'm quite sure that you are right, and my 92yo one would probably manage as well, but my under 50yo wife wouldn't.... everyone's different, eh!
Edited by b308 on 18/07/2009 at 20:24
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Why do they need a bay when they already have a dropped kerb? I couldn't park in front of said kerb could I? so therefore they already have reserved parking?
IMO if the bay is justified it should cover their drive as that would be the quickest and easiest way from the car to the house would it not? By putting it partly in front of the neighbour they are actually disadvantaging the blue badge owner making them walk further.
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If they put it across the dropped kerb in front of their house getting in and out of the car would involve traversing the slope of the dropped kerb... I think you'll find that a bay can only be put where the kerb is level with the pavement, not where it is dropped to the level of the road, for the same reason as not using a sloping drive - as for the distance, we are surely only talking a matter of a few feet extra, and that is on the level, so its not really an issue?
Edited by b308 on 18/07/2009 at 20:55
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in reply to the OP is it possible that the disabled bay has been positioned in the middle between your drop kerb and thiers and that is way its encroaching on 'your' parking space.
in reply to the rest of the conversation i think its deciding whether someone needs or wants something because of a disabillity my parents were advised by a highways inspector to apply for a disabled bay but they havent because where the bay would be situated my dad doesnt think it fair as he always pulls up to the front door of their house and lets my mum out (shes the disabled one) and then pulls forward into his parking space and always does the same when taking my mum out so to have a bay would just because they can and not though need which i think is the fair way to look at things
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TBH all this discussion has done is highlight (as many others have said) that without the full facts from both sides and being able to physically see what the issues are its really impossible to make any meaningful suggestions, I seriously doubt that the local council have installed it illegally and from what has been said by the OP it seems its not actually blocking any of the drives... as to whether morally its acceptable, thats impossible for us to decide on the info we have...
I'm beginning to think we are going round in circles...
If the OP is not happy with it then the answer is to approach the people who authorised it and take it from there...
Time to lock?
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Why should the thread be locked? Just because you can't think of anything further to add. If nothing else the OP may want to come back with an update.
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Yes you are right after sleeping on it for the night I tend to agree, I was a bit hasty!... but really unless we get something from the disabled person or their family as to why they asked for the space we can't really come to any meaningful conclusion, as it is clear that anything the OP says is skewed simply because he percieves them as having taken away "his" parking space and is viewing it from that angle without knowing the true reasons for their request...
What I didn't want is for it to drop into one of those disabled knocking threads which it did look as though it was going to earlier.
He asked for advice on what to do and whether they can do it, the short answers are go and have a word with the Council and yes they can!
Edited by b308 on 19/07/2009 at 10:37
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Snip - Your frequent and somewhat prejudice comments towards anyone less able bodied than yourself are becoming tiresome.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/07/2009 at 17:40
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>>> as it is clear that anything the OP says is skewed simply because he percieves them as having taken away "his" parking space <<<
I think you'll find 'juicyrear' is a her :o)
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On street parking is a strange almost ' pecking order " situation. Say you have lived in your home for around 12 years or more and have all ways parked your car neatly outside the front of your home. New people move in next door or across the road, bringing with them more cars than their property has space for. They start leaving a car in the place that you have been using for the past 12 years, meaning that you now have to seek a spot some where else.
It's difficult not to feel hard done by and if the subject is brought up with the newcomers who then take the attitude ' tough doggie do " then what ?
It's a situation being played out all over the country.
The OP's situation is not all that different but with the other party using the law to get the upper hand.
One question I have. Did this disability come on suddenly or where they sharing the space in front of the houses before the bay ? . Where did they park before the bay arrived if the disability has been long term.
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From what she (my appologies and thanks Perro!) has said she seems to have had the disability for a bit... my guess is that they were unaware that they could get a dedicated space and were taking to their Occ Therapist and saying how difficult it was to park outside sometimes and the OT suggested they approach the Council to get one put in... certainly makes sense from what has been said by the OP.
I do feel that this is nothing to do with getting the "upper hand", MrX, that infers we are talking about people who are equal in their ability to get around... as the OP has already said the other person is not trying it on, they are genuinely disabled.
Common sense would say that if we saw someone whose needs were greater than our own we would willingly allow them to park nearer their home, regretably, as you have said, most people take a rather more selfish attitude resulting in the disabled person having to take measures such as this.
Edited by b308 on 19/07/2009 at 17:44
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Or it could be the usual
Disabled person one " I've got a special bay painted outside my house, how come you haven't ? "
Disabled person two. " Could I get one ?"
Disabled person one " Just go down the council and demand one. After all, you are ENTITLED "
The point is of course that , YES, they are entitled but is it a case of need or Entitlement ?
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As an aside for those of you ho think I spend my spare hours stoning disabled people...
tinyurl.com/ksuzn2
How many childrens lives are this council saving my refusing to grant special permission of a few minutes stopping time for this particular case, tens, hundreds ?
If he arrived in an Ambulance then I don't suppose it would be a problem. Using taxis as a cheap form of ambulance, as in these circumstances should , be acknowledged.
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Mr X, this may sound as if you cannot win - which it is not meant to ;-), but this story really is trying to blame the wrong people.
We faced a similar problem due to an intractable Head, who refused to allow any pupil to arrive via the main gates to the school, where the staff and visitors parked and walked into school. We did not actually park on the zigzag, but in bus layby next to the school (no bus service at this time) if there was room left by other parents. It took a visit by a police officer to the Head to advise him that it might be more sensible to allow those with a BB (Yes, one of those!) for the child, should be allowed to stop in the Visitors space inside the main gate.
Obviously this is a much longer story, but these are the bones of it - I would suggest it is very unlikely that the school in this article does not have an entrance for deliveries and staff, off road.
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The point is of course that YES they are entitled but is it a case of need or Entitlement ?
I don't know, MrX, and neither do you... only the people who live next door to the OP would know...
As to the rest of the post, yes many disabled people talk to each other and find out what they are ENTITLED (your caps) to... I can't see any difference between that and you or I posting a question on this forum about problems with a car and finding that its a common problem and the manufacturer does a free "fix" for it but doesn't publicise it... You'll find if you ever end up having to make claims for a disablity that the Gov are just like the car manufacturers, they like to hide any help they give, even though they actually passed the leglislation to help the individual in the first place!! So I am not sure what you are tring to insinuate... that disabled people should not be allowed to talk to each other perhaps?!
Edited by b308 on 19/07/2009 at 18:26
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My word, this thread has certainly revealed a thing or two about how some of us view those less able than others. I don?t happen to be physically disabled but volunteer to assist those who are and know at first hand how difficult it can be to get disabled folk to places where access is taken for granted by the fit and healthy. I suggest those who feel the disabled are taking advantage or getting away with it try taking 2 or 3 folk with M. S. + any number of the problems associated with it in wheelchairs to somewhere basic like, say, a shopping mall or an entertainment venue and see for themselves whether it?s a piece of cake or not. Tell you what?you strap your legs up with tape so you can?t walk, put greaseproof paper over your eyes, take something to make your hands shake all the time and come back in a months time and tell us how you get on??Maybe get on to the Daily Mail to cover the event and copy/paste the link on here?should make interesting reading.
Edited by KB. on 19/07/2009 at 19:09
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>>As to the rest of the post, yes many disabled people talk to each other and find out what they are ENTITLED (your caps) to... I can't see any difference between that and you or I posting a question on this forum about problems with a car and finding that its a common problem and the manufacturer does a free "fix" for it but doesn't publicise it...
I think I know very well what Mr X means by 'ENTITLED'. Reminds me of the apocryphal story told to me by a retired doctor friend about the early days of the NHS, when a doctor was called out in the middle of the night to a baby whose mother thought it wasn't eating normally. Having examined the child, which seemed all right, the doctor asked how long it had been going on. "About three months" said the mother. "Three months!", shouted the doc, "why have you waited until now and called me out in the middle of the night when it's freezing and lashing with rain!".
"It's what we're entitled to!" was the reply.
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Nail, head and hit Manatee, nail head and hit.
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We are talking about the disabled, M. As far as I can see from his comments he is insinuating that it is somehow wrong for disabled people to exchange information on them so they can claim what they are entitled to... As those entitlements are set by and funded by the Gov to allow a disabled person to have a better quality of life than they would do otherwise I can't see how it could be wrong for them to try and improve the quality of their life by talking with others... (and that includes disabled bays to keep a motoring connection).
Edited by b308 on 19/07/2009 at 19:45
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Not saying it's wrong for them to exchange the info, just pointing out that there are those who will claim a bay, even though they have no need of it , purely because they are ENTITLED to it.
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As usual I will ask you for proof of that accusassion... knowing full well that, as usual, you don't have any evidence and are just stirring things, and, as usual, will pretend to hide behind the "I can't reveal my sources on a public forum"...
The Council don't just hand those things out willy-nilly, they check out each one individually, thats why you don't see many around... If you have evidence that people are misusing the system, MrX then report it, in the meantime give it a rest, eh.
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b308 I suggest you do not rise to the bait Mr X is trying to play you with !!
I suggest a moderator locks this thread it is not contributing anything to the original posters question but just providing Mr X with a soap box to make accusations about people who he does not know and in all honesty does not show this web site in a good light
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Aye - Thread creep is terminal.
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