I wondered if someone could clear up the confusion of whether or not the authorities have up to 6 months to notify a motorist of a road (e.g. speeding) offence.
I have looked in quite some detail at this matter and seem to understand it like this :
If a driver is stopped by the police for speeding, the police give the driver a fixed penalty notice which gives them six months to prosecute ?
Or if caught by any type of speed camera (fixed or mobile etc) then the authorities must make sure the notice of intended prosecution reaches the drivers attention no longer than 14 working days (is that 3 weeks ? ) after the date of the offence.
Could you please clarify the situation ?
Edited by Pugugly on 15/07/2009 at 21:57
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Your wording is a bit ambiguous.
If a driver is stopped by the Police and reported for summons for speeding then the information has to be laid within 6 months (easier if you think - receive a summons to court within 6 months). This equally applies to a too many points, contested, non payment of or failure to surrender driving licence speeding ticket which will be dealt with by a magistrates court.
A Speed camera ticket in the first instance should generate an NIP/Name the Driver form which should be posted to the Registered Keeper by first class mail within 14 days of the alleged offence. Note that is not 14 working days.
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Your wording is a bit ambiguous. If a driver is stopped by the Police and reported for summons for speeding then the information has to be laid within 6 months (easier if you think - receive a summons to court within 6 months).
100 days in Scotland IIRC
Edited by grumpyscot on 16/07/2009 at 08:37
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Nope, it's 6 months in Scotland too. However in Scotland the first hearing (known as a "diet") must occur within the 6 months. In England and Wales they only have to "lay" the information with the courts within 6 months, the summons can turn up weeks or months later.
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Nope it's 6 months in Scotland too. However in Scotland the first hearing (known as a "diet") must occur within the 6 months. In England and Wales they only have to "lay" the information with the courts within 6 months the summons can turn up weeks or months later.
Thanks for the clarification Steve - I stand corrected!
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>>which should be posted to the Registered Keeper by first class mail within 14 days of the alleged offence. Note that is not 14 working days.
Is that posted by the authorities or received by the Registered Keeper? Is the NIP sent as a 'signed for' letter?
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nope the nip arrives in a plain brown envelope, first class, which looks remarkably like junk mail and nearly got binned.
I had the misfortune to go through a fixed camera at 36 mph at 20.45 on a tuesday, the who was the driver letter arrived first post friday morning, they dont hang arround up here.
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Proof of posting needed.
Not signed for upon delivery (ie no proof of delivery required)
So if it gets lost in the post, which must happen on the odd occaision, then tough luck, mate, we can prove that we posted it.
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Seems unfair. Letters do get lost in the post. But I suppose par for the course for the UK these days.
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'Proof of posting is proof of delivery' as a legal principle was established years ago, when the Royal Mail could be relied on and hardly ever lost a letter. It's not a new repressive measure, but perhaps more a case of the legal system not having kept up with the present-day reality of the Royal Mail.
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One thing that puzzled me today (actually it happened a while ago too). Coming from the Runcorn Bridge towards Widnes, the road is two lanes with a 40mph speed limit. On both occasions, there was a small Police van with a camera on a tripod and a police person sat on the tailgate.
Now to the best of my knowledge, to use this sort of camera it has to be pointed directly at the car in question for at least three seconds, while this one appeared to be just pointed towards the road.
What's going on? Do the police sometimes just monitor speeds without actually taking photographs or is this some new form of camera?
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Could it have been an ANPR type camera?
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'Proof of posting is proof of delivery' as a legal principle was established years ago
i posted a letter earlier, no one was with me and there were no cctv present, where is the proof i posted it?
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i posted a letter earlier no one was with me and there were no cctv present where is the proof i posted it?
Only your word for it. You should have taken it to the Post Office and obtained a 'Certificate of Posting', which nowadays is incorporated in your receipt. It also entitles you to a certain amount of compensation if the item is not delivered. It is conclusive proof of posting and you can rest assured that things like NIP's, fine notices and summonses are sent out in that way.
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I got a "certificate of posting" for an insurance certificate I sent back (automatic renewal that I had told them not to renew a month earlier!!).
No where does it say who from or who to - so all it is evidence that you posted "something".
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They should have put the address to which the letter was sent on teh proof. They certainly did when I sent my VAT return off yesterday.
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May just put the postcode, that usually narrows it down enough.
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On this webpage :
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Publictran...8
it says that the registered keeper will be sent a NIP form within 14 days.
My question is whether this is 14 working days from the date of the offence or is it 14 working days from when the authorities develop and view the film in the cameras (so that it is considerably longer than 14 days before a letter arrives in your post and you know your fate). Also would all this apply equally to the newer mobile cameras that are around nowadays ?
I don't intentionally speed. What I am saying is if by accident (I can't 100% of the time be looking at the speedometer and not looking at the road ! ) I go over the limit.
Also can you clearly explain where the 6 month period of notification applies.
Thanks.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/07/2009 at 19:24
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It is 14 (calendar, not working) days from the date of the offence, where the offence date is day 0.
They also have 6 months (in England and Wales) to "lay" the information with the courts, to start the court process. In Scotland they have to get you into court within 6 months.
Edited by Steve Pearce on 23/07/2009 at 19:30
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I know from the UK governments own website that the authorities have to make sure the NIP form reaches a driver who has been caught by a "safety" camera within 14 days of the offence. Is this a rough rule, 14 days, or does it have to be obeyed.
Would this mean the authorities retrieving the film from the cameras and developing them and sending the NIP form out, all within 14 days ?
Also the issue of if the authorities send the NIP out to the driver and because it gets delayed or lost in the post then is it correct that the 14 day rule could be broken ? And if the form is delayed in getting to the driver then potentially they could send it months or even years later !!!
What do you think the chances are that an NIP that was sent after a motorist was caught on a camera will get mislaid in the post ?
Thanks
Edited by rtj70 on 05/08/2009 at 22:12
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They have to send the NIP out within 14 days of the offence. That's it. How long it takes you to get it and whether it goes missing does not matter. If it went missing in the post makes no difference if they posted it by day 14.
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What do you think the chances are that an NIP that was sent after a motorist was caught on a camera will get mislaid in the post ? >>
You ask a question, then disappear then start a new thread on the same thread; see your previous two threads combined in to one here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=76736&...f
Would you like to tell us what/when your encounter with a speed camera was and why it is bothering you?
{thanks jbif. I forgot the OP had already posted the question before. Merged yet again}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/08/2009 at 01:50
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A related point re cameras. I sometimes see what look like camera vans parked on motorway bridges. I also see police cars. Are the latter also likely to have cameras? In either case, are the cameras fixed or can they be panned to take in any of the lanes?
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If you see a van with police cars it is more likely ANPR and the cars are there to chase after wanted vehicles.
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one more thing...the information has to be laid at Magistrates Court within 6 months...but the summons might turn up after the 6 months i.e. the workings of the court might mean that the summons would be issued after the 6 months, which is fine as long as the info was laid before that date....hope that makes sense
so it's no good thinking 'hah, no summons and 6 months has gone by'
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