No FM/AM by 2012 - Rudedog
Sorry if this has been covered today...

I've just heard on 5Live that both FM and AM radio are to be switched off by 2012 and everyone will need some kind of DAB receiver to listen to the radio. Now I don't know how many new cars are being produced with DAB in them or as an option but I suspect that there will still be plenty of 3+ year old cars knocking around by then relying on good old FM/AM.

I just think this is crazy, I'm not sure what is happening on the Continent but are their new cars going to have their FM radios swapped out for DAB ones when they are imported?

Looks like I'll have to find another way of listening to Test Match Special while I'm on the move!
No FM/AM by 2012 - madux
Say what you like about FM but I still prefer LW for the quality of the reception.
No FM/AM by 2012 - bell boy
its 2015
by then the labour govt will have been forgotten and fm radio will continue in my opinion
No FM/AM by 2012 - Rudedog
Sorry BB my mistake - 2015 for upgrade(?) to DAB.

No FM/AM by 2012 - Rattle
I bought a DAB tuner and it is one of the biggest mistakes of my live, cost me £100 too. I still prefer my old Sony analogue tuner. I find the bit rate of DAB quite frankly offensive, not only is it low bitrate but it uses an ancient MPEG codac too. I would much rather DAB had less stations but all broacasted in a higher bit rate. I can't listen to 128kbps broadcasts I just find them harsh and lacking in any detail at all, a few are 160kbps I think and they are not too bad. I find that 192kbps and it starts to become FM quality providing the DAC it is fed into is half decent.

My biggest concern on is that digital radio is not really suited to cars because if an analgoue FM broadcasts becomes faint you just tend to loose stereo and you get a bit of crackle but with digital it will just go off or become extremely blocky rendering it useless.

I really miss my old Denon analgoue tuner which I got gonned into swapping.
No FM/AM by 2012 - bell boy
>
I really miss my old Denon analgoue tuner which I got gonned into swapping.

>>>>> i got a cracking sansui tuner amp off ebay for a £10,try there for your denon, but a better one would be a pioneer one from the 70"s if you can find one and into dx ing
No FM/AM by 2012 - Pugugly
Got a nice early eighties Technics tuner if you want Rattle.
No FM/AM by 2012 - madux
I have a nice early eighties Pioneer tuner. When it packed up about 10 years ago I took it to an independant for repair and he raved about the quality and that they don't make them like this anymore etc etc. Still works.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Rattle
I've got a lovely Tany one some where, it has a german make on it but apparantly it was a budget Tandy model sold in the early 70's. It has a lovely analogue strip which has a back lamp and there is no phono connectors just a german DIN connector so I had to get a conversion. I think my sister uses this now, her amp is is a late 70's Pionneer unit and she I think her friends are always amazed on how good it sounds. The oldest item I have on my hifi is a mid 90's Rotel preamp I use as a phono stage and extra inputs for my Cambridge Azure 640 intergrated.

To bring this thread back on topic hopefully by 2015 DAB codacs would have improved massively but I will still miss that lovely warmth you get from a good FM tuner.

Also most eurobox in car sound systems are so awful that it would be hard to tell the differences between bit rates anyway.

Edited by Rattle on 17/06/2009 at 01:03

No FM/AM by 2012 - Pugugly
Don't hold your breath
No FM/AM by 2012 - Rudedog
Unlike digital TV I can't see 100's of thousands of drivers being able to easily upgrade their radios to DAB in only 6 years time, and AFAIK car producers are still going to be putting 'old' FM radios in new cars right up to this date.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Pizza man
Can't you still get tape players in some cars?

I think it's stupid that everything is going to be DAB and FM/AM is going to be turned off, i guess they just want less people listening to the radio, The main reason people have taken up digital TV is because it's what new flat screen High-Def TV's have built in if the TV's weren't High-Def and didn't use up less space then the big old CRT's I'm sure not many people would of upgraded.
Whats the advantage of DAB then? more Rubbish you've no interest in listening to like Radio 1 Extra (the Racist radio station? ---but thats another debate)?
2 Local radio stations have just switched over to being pre-recorded or national broadcasts which is a shame as they've lost the interactive feel they had before, is this goign to be the trend thats followed?
No FM/AM by 2012 - NARU
From the report ...

Digital radio in vehicles: a five point programme

In-car listening represents a significant portion of total radio listening (around
20%). It is important that listeners have the confidence they will continue to
have access to their favourite stations in their cars after the Radio Upgrade.
Therefore, we are proposing the following measures to support take-up of digital
radio in new and existing vehicles sold in the UK. We will: Work with manufacturers

1. so that vehicles sold with a radio are digitally enabled by the end of 2013;
2. Support a common logo for digital radios and ensure that non-DAB radios, and
their limitations, are clearly labelled;
3. Encourage the development of portable digital converters, such as the Pure
Highway, and the integration of DAB into other vehicle devices such as Sat-
Navs;
4. Promote the introduction of more sophisticated traffic information via DAB
and comprehensive marketing by broadcasters; and
5. Work with our European partners, including the European Commission, to
develop a common European approach to digital radio. We have approached
the European Commission to encourage them to lead a Community-wide
effort. Such an approach, as was adopted in digital television, could provide
certainty well in advance for vehicle manufacturers and those providing in-car
devices to bring the unit price of conversion down.
No FM/AM by 2012 - ifithelps
The DAB system currently used in this country is based on old technology.

It's very bandwidth hungry and costs too much to broadcast for most local stations.

At one time, if the BBC broadcast Test Match Special on 5Live Extra, the DAB service of Radio 4 was switched to mono because there were not enough bits to go around.

The government seems determined to carry on with DAB, but with newer digital technologies so superior, it could become the Betamax/VHS of radio.

It is a nightmare, regulation-wise, because shortly after a system is adopted, in this case DAB, it becomes outdated.

No FM/AM by 2012 - grumpyscot
There are ares of Scotland where you still can't get FM, never mind DAB. And ha vey ouever list ed to a DA broaca t in the lake dis ict?
No FM/AM by 2012 - Alanovich
There are ares of Scotland where you still can't get FM never mind DAB. And
ha vey ouever list ed to a DA broaca t in the lake dis ict?


It's not just the sticks. BBC DAB reception in Reading (population: 250,000, distance from London: 40 miles) stinks. I have contacted them several times, however they deny any problem. The signal all around my house drops out quite frequently, and when using my portable MP3 player/Walkman size device, all the BBC stations are useless unless I stand still in a sweet spot. Which is hardly the point.

This bodes ill for the chances of getting a decent signal in a car around town. I am not overly excited about this new plan, unless they invest in some serious transmitter upgrades.

The odd thing is, all the non-BBC stations are fine, around my house and all around town.
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
It's not just the sticks. BBC DAB reception in Reading (population: 250 000 distance from
London: 40 miles) stinks. I have contacted them several times however they deny any problem.
The odd thing is all the non-BBC stations are fine around my house and all
around town.


Not sure what the issue is in Reading ( low transmit power or frequency planning or what) but at least your experience is consistent with the coverage predictor:-

www.ukdigitalradio.com/coverage/postcodesearch/def...e

Sorry can't link direct to RG1 1AA which I tried, but it shows BBC stations as dodgy without an outdoor antenna.

Not much consolation I suppose :-/
No FM/AM by 2012 - Alanovich
Not much consolation I suppose :-/


Nope, but thanks for your input and the link. :-)

My home postcode suggests that I should be able to get the BBC stations perfectly well, as opposed to RG1 1AA which has them down as dodgy. However, my experience at home is patchy. I am about to move house, but only 4 streets away, and the postcode there seems to match the results for RG1 1AA, which is a bit depressing. If the reception is poorer than at my current address, it'll be unuseable without an outdoor aerial.

All very disppointing for a major urban area with a substantial population of licence fee payers. Grrr. P'raps I'll just get an external aerial installed. More money. Double grrrr.
No FM/AM by 2012 - oilrag
Even Malta uses DAB+ I believe... How long before UK DAB receivers currently being bought become obsolete themselves?

No FM/AM by 2012 - Pugugly
The car I hired in the US last summer had a very effective multi channel Satellite radio - it was very good even if the material was a bit iffy ! BBC Radio one and crystal clear World Service was one of the benefit.
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
So, judging from Marlot's summary of the report further up thread somone has realised that to get anywhere near FM's market penetration levels you need lots of in car listeners, which just hasn't happened with DAB; presumably that's down to the fact there's no Europe wide standard so car manufacturer's aren't keen on fitting different radios for different markets.

So, about 15 years too late, they're talking about having a European standard for digital radio broadcast. ho hum.

Personally I like DAB, I'm happy to trade off the ultimate in audio quality for a bigger range of stations than FM ( in my case specifically Planet Rock and 6 Music), 128kbs MP2 is OK, I imagine some of the lower bitrate stations sound a bit medium wave though. Most of my radio listeining these days is streamed from the 'net via wifi anyway, a tad tricky in the car unless you like big phone bills....

Agree with previous posters you can get some cracking high end 70s/80s audio for peanuts on eBay.
No FM/AM by 2012 - oilrag
I have found DAB to be useful as a Radio Alarm. The way it instantly sets and keeps the correct time when tuned to a DAB station - contrasted with radio wave synchronised and `memory` FM types, both needing batteries despite being mains powered.

Edited by oilrag on 17/06/2009 at 10:09

No FM/AM by 2012 - jc2
RDS which we've had for years also gives the time,station display and changes frequency automatically to follow the station around the country.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Stuartli
There are around 32m cars on UK roads - I would estimate two-thirds have an FM/AM radio.

Nice work for the car radio manufacturers if and when the switchover occurs, but a nightmare and unnecessary additional costs for motorists.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Pugugly
A balanced report in one of today's ex-broadsheets - switch off 2015 and the industry to encourage digital converters for cars to be developed (I believe that Pure already make one) - the kits will be as cheap as chips no doubt given market forces. Why worry really ?
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
Yes, a fair point. From a personal point of view, based on experience with my Pure DMX-60, I like DAB for the following reasons ( in decending order of importance to me):-

As mentioned above more choice of stations.

'live pause' facility so I can skip bits I don't like ( Ok you do do this with analogue for £££)

EPG data (for some stations) so I can automatically record to SD with a few button presses.

Very occasional burst of 'boiling mud' is less annoying to me than constant background low level hiss on FM.

No FM/AM by 2012 - Stuartli
>>..with my Pure DMX-60,>>

One of the superior DAB manufacturers.
No FM/AM by 2012 - redviper
The "entertainment system" in my Vectra has FM & DAB

Ive always found the DAB, to work really well until i go into the Yorkshire Dales then it does cut off, but you can change to FM

I to like the Extra stations such as BBC7, but i have no issues when driving on motorways, and around any other town outside the the Yorkshire Dales.

As for the comment about "eurobox radios" being rubbish, I have to disagree, the sound system in the Vectra is fantastic quality and packed full of features,.

I used to have a top of the range sony head unit in my Astra, again feature packed but it didnt sound as good, but i think this is due to the quality of the factory fit speakers.
However the speaker and head unit system in the Vectra excelled my expectations. and i would not dream of removing it for a 3rd party device.

However I do agree, that in rural areas the system needs further upgrading to reach these parts

Edited by redviper on 17/06/2009 at 12:35

No FM/AM by 2012 - diddy1234
bring on DRM shortwave radio.

Get lots of stations from around the world (don't own one but want one).
No FM/AM by 2012 - AlfaTim
Quite apart from the poor audio quality and poor coverage, and the fact that your existing DAB radio will become obsolete when DAB+ arrives, the actual choice of radio stations is very narrow on DAB. And DAB is all about the state (aka OFCOM) retaining control over your radio listening choice. The future of in-car radio is Internet Radio delivered over the 3G phone network - there are thousands of stations to choose from! And you can do it today!
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
Quite apart from the poor audio quality and poor coverage and the fact that your
existing DAB radio will become obsolete when DAB+ arrives the actual choice of radio stations
is very narrow on DAB.

The choice of stations on DAB isn't narrow compared with FM ! Yes of course my radio will be obsolete at some point in the future, but that is an undefined number of years away, at which point a DAB+ radio should be sufficiently cheap to make replacement painless.

The future of in-car radio is Internet Radio delivered
over the 3G phone network - there are thousands of stations to choose from! And
you can do it today!


Well yes you can do that now on some phones, but if significant numbers of people started doing it then the 3G network would fall over very quickly, for sure phone networks aren't designed for large numbers of people having simualteous streaming connections at any meaningful bandwidth. That's ignoring the non trivial cost to the user of all this bandwidth, 'all you can eat' 3G data products tend to have very low maximum download limits in my experience. It ain't gonna happen, even LTE would have trouble coping with the bandwidth requirements.

Edited by SpamCan61 {P} on 17/06/2009 at 14:48

No FM/AM by 2012 - Altea Ego
over the 3G phone network - there are thousands of stations to choose from! And
you can do it today!


No you cant!

3G coverage is worse than DAB coverage, there are no 3G internet radios for cars to buy,

Plus

the bit rate of some internet radios, make DAB sound like a live concert.
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
Plus
the bit rate of some internet radios make DAB sound like a live concert.


LOL, most of the stations I listen to online are around 64K which is somewhat medium wave in quality; the only one I listen to that sounds somewhat better than 128K MP2 DAB is Absolute Classic Rock which is available via a whole load of different codecs and bitrates, the 160k OGG stream is pretty damn good to my ears.

www.absoluteradio.co.uk/listen/on_your_computer.ht...l
No FM/AM by 2012 - diddy1234
OGG/Vorbis has already been proven to be a better more efficient codec at lower bit rates compared to mp3.

so a 64kbps OGG stream will have the same audio quality like 128 Kbps mp3 stream.

The ultimate quality would be Flac (completely lossless codec) but that's not really a streaming protocol !
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
I've never listened to a 64k OGG station, I'll see if I can find one when I get home, most of my current favourites are 64k MP3 or WMA and one or two AAC+ IIRC.
No FM/AM by 2012 - diddy1234
good luck SpamCan61, let us know how you get on.

From my own testing I did find that OGG definitely did do more for less compared to MP3.

Unfortunately its not in mainstream use as much as mp3 (no doubt commercial sales pressures way a heavy hand against open standards)


ogg vs mp3 format here :-

old.techno.fm/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3521

audio tests here (in various file formats) :-

www.xciv.org/~meta/audio-shootout/
No FM/AM by 2012 - AlfaTim
You can listen to Internet Radio in your car this way: tinyurl.com/ljj9fn

And Blaupunkt demonstrated two Internet Car Radios at this years CES tinyurl.com/d7zo2n
No FM/AM by 2012 - Rattle
Fantastic compared to what? A £100 mini system? However larger cars do tend to have better audio systems, the one in my dads Escort was ok. I think the big problem with my Corsa is the standard fit factory speakers they just sound flat and the bass is actually just overblown into the mid range. Yet some tonally deaf people have commited on the good bass :(.

The other issue I haven't mentioned here FM is that the radio stations tend to compress the frequency responce of their output so incar systems can handle them. The result is that put a commcercial radio station through a HIFI tuner and it can sound squashed, this means for me the BBC stations are a lot better, apart from Radio 1 which also uses this compression.

Internet radio is ok, but on the ones I have used the bit rate has been 64kbps which makes it useless but if if the bit rate is 192kbps or above it can sound quite good especialy through my M-AUDIO sound card.

I would like to see a proper HIFI setup in car, all the ICE systems I have seen that chavs are into just have this really bright harsh sound but good bass responce. Why can't we have a nice head unit with a decent FM/DAD/CD player and a decent DAC? This then feeds into a nice amplifer system which uses audiophile grade capacitors feeding high quality speakers houses in an area designed for its frequency responce. I think Lexus do this, as they use one of the big British HIFI companies to design their sound systems, I think it might be Linn can't remember.

The worst car we ever had for sound quality was the Punto SX, it was so dull and tinny and that was before I became an audiophile.

I suppose the general public don't really care, so car companies are not going to spend £300 fitting a HIFI system in a £6000 car.
No FM/AM by 2012 - redviper
I would say fantastic in everyway


The speaker system is as good as a high quality hi-fi system (and I categorically insist on having the best home hi-fi system (that I can afford) esp to get the best lo, mid and high range in all aspects).

My highest passion in life is music of many genres, and that?s why I invested in a top spec system for the home and its still performing brilliantly at 5 years old.

My Astra (probs like your corsa) could only produce bass through the midrange, and the treble was to high, turn it down and it sounded flat.
Despite this the head unit was not to blame the original Vauxhall (basic stereo) one taken out, the Sony head unit did its best, but it was never right no different to the Vauxhall , this was due to the low frequency response of the standard fit speakers and generally the loud wind noise of the Astra its self.


The Vectra (Vauxhall Factory Fit) Stereo is another matter.

Separate user controlled Graphic Equalizer for each CD Auto-changer, DAB, FM, AM
Presets for each one, ?Rock, Jazz Pop? etc


8 Speakers through out the car give a fantastic Audio response through out the car, even at low volumes I can still hear rich bass sounds
In the Astra (also 8 speakers) I had two choices, get a decent volume on the Stereo, or listen to SWMBO chattering on.
The Vectra I can do both as the sound is rich enough to have at low volume
Volume auto increases to compensate for road noise (not that there is barely any)
Cd Changer, although a little complicated at 1st is now fantastic and easy to use.
DAB Reception is brilliant, if there is non just flick to FM

Im sorry but the ?entertainment system? in the Vectra DOES sound as good as a high quality system. And this is coming from a person who likes MP3?s encoded at 360kbs, anything less than 256kbs is torture to my ears, so I do know what im talking about.
No FM/AM by 2012 - redviper
Edit:

Im not saying that its as good as say a home system costing £1000 +, but i think its as gooad as it needs to be in a car, and it sounds as good as anything you can buy for the home at a large elctrical retailer
No FM/AM by 2012 - Rattle
That is interesting, I wonder if I could simply replace those speakers but leave my original Philips CD head unit in. However it probably still won't sound right and it would cause insurance problems etc. One of my customers has a £8K Linn system and compared to my low mid end Cambridge/Marantz/M Audio setup it sounds amazing but then it did cost nearly £7k more.

The trick with audio compromises is to make sure the listeners dosn't feel they are missing something. When I use my Nokia N85 with 256kbps WMA files and my portable Senny PX100 headphones I don't feel like I am missing anything at all. Yet plug in my more expensive and better Goldring headphones or my old Beyer DXT330s it sounds horrible. I think my dads Escort had the balance just right, I never really thought that sounds flat etc, I just knew it was a compromise but still enjoyed the music.

I am also very old fashioned when it comes to music and believe anything in the signal path is a distraction. I don't even use tone controls, I get the tonal balance right by choosing the right speakers to match my amp and sources. Sadly driving means I now have a lot less money to spend on HIFI so I don't intend to do any upgrades anymore.

PS Red sorry I wasn't having a dig at you personaly, I just see a lot of tonaly deaf people thinking a system sounds good when it actually sounds awful. I am talking about the 300 watts init brigade. I think you will find your system actually produces 6 watts per channel RMS sir. At least now trading standards have warned HIFI companies not to sell their products using PMPO figures and to always use RMS also stating the load e.g 8 ohms. I think my Cambridge produces 75 watts per channel and people say that must be loud, no I don't care about that, but I do care about having enough power to get a tight grip on that bass.

At least I know if I ever want an audiophile car I need to buy a Vectra :).

No FM/AM by 2012 - redviper
Rattle:
Its ok I know you wernt having a go @ me

If i came across as abrupt, i didnt mean to

However you seem to know your stuff, I to am a sucker for perfect quality of music thats why i invested in a top spec home hifi with a decent set of speakers.

SWMBO on the other hand cant see the difference - phfft

The vectra has a fantastic audio system in my eyes anyway, and its not worth ripping it out to fit a aftermarket one

The DAB works brilliantly (providing there is coverage) and so does everything else with it.

I can tell the difference in a low quality compressed mp3, thats why my computer is full of 320k Mp3's or FLAC, size isnst a issue for me, sound quality is.

Edited by redviper on 17/06/2009 at 18:19

No FM/AM by 2012 - J Bonington Jagworth
"I think it might be Linn"

Mark Levinson, although I suspect he was only a 'consultant'. I only know because a Lexus-owning friend complained how much it cost him to have repaired when it gave trouble!

Nice enough sound, but lots of speakers do not HiFi make, as LJK Setright used to point out.

I doubt that Linn would have anything to do with ICE...

Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 17/06/2009 at 17:01

No FM/AM by 2012 - Jamesh266
Until recently Linn did do the sound systems for some Aston Martins, but after Ford sold Aston, they changed to Bang & Olufsen.
No FM/AM by 2012 - J Bonington Jagworth
Don't worry - it ain't going to happen. If I could get decent odds I would bet serious money on it. DAB will die long before FM.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
Hundreds of thousands of new car radios will be sold to those who don't buy a car with a new type radio in them. What will those new radios also have that will make them popular with the govt... why Vat at 17.5% of course.

Welcome to the UK, land of the easily fleeced.
No FM/AM by 2012 - captain chaos
To be honest I don't bother much with the radio, I prefer to listen to my own choice in music on my 8-track. Lovely! Three cartridges and the glove box is full...
No FM/AM by 2012 - FP
Mr X's first point may be valid - though I'm not sure why he believes "old-type" radios will still be sold right up to the point when they won't work (unless you think he just assumes the worst about everything).

But the second ruins it. I don't recognise his description of the UK. Perhaps Mr X does just assume the worst about everything.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
Looks like I haven't made it clear. The big sell of new style DAB radios will now swing in to action. We will be expected to replace perfectly good working radios with new ones that operate on the DAB system by virtue of the fact they are going to switch off a perfectly good analogue system. There is , in my view, only one reason for this. Each and every new radio will carry VAT. Times the number of new radios sold by the VAt and it's big bucks for the govt.

No FM/AM by 2012 - FP
Oh, you made it clear, Mr X. Too clear. I think we all know where you stand on this one.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Hamsafar
I would not invest in DAB, even the broadcasters are pulling out and demanding taxpayer's money via OFFCOM to remain onboard.

The trouble is that DAB is obsolescent technology and doesn't deliver the quality expected by the user.

Unfortunately, the UK has a habit of jumping onboard too early with these things and then having a very slow and painful transition, by which time it's out of date (like freeview tv which isn't HD, has no HD standard and hasn't even been properly rolled out yet).
No FM/AM by 2012 - Altea Ego
> Unfortunately, the UK has a habit of jumping onboard too early with these things

With this logic we would still be watching a small flashing thing powered by a mechanical disk spinning round, fresh from mr bairds factory. Maybe even still twidling our cats whiskers sharing a pair of bakelite headphones.


No FM/AM by 2012 - b308
Don't think my cat would be too happy about that... does it make it purr louder? :-)
No FM/AM by 2012 - Hamsafar
No we wouldn't we have far too much nanny state interference in private enterprise. The next waste of money will be the telephone line license/tax and the 2Megabit universal broadband. It will see lots of taxpayers money hosed at companies, to slowly rollout something which will probably be made obsolete by something like 4G and Wimax before it's even fully implemented.
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
Precisely AE,people moan if we jump in early ( as with DAB), other people moan if we wait for the technology to mature ( broadband). can't win!

Anybody who thinks audio ( or video) quality matters in mass consumer acceptanceneeds to look at recent history:-

V2000 vs. Betamax vs. VHS
Sky vs. BSB
SACD vs. MP3

The installed base of DAB is around 6million, hardly a failure.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
Digital TV signals are a failure. They break up in bad weather- snow - heavy rain. Analogue didn't. The same can be said of DAB signals. They are subject to far more interference than the old analogue. They are also suspect when it comes to picking them up while traveling at speed.

As for the new tax on the telephone line in your house, I thought the govts sell off of various air waves a few years back, which raked in millions, was done to fund broadband .
No FM/AM by 2012 - Bromptonaut
Digital TV signals are a failure. They break up in bad weather- snow - heavy
rain. Analogue didn't. The same can be said of DAB signals.


This problem is caused by the relatively low power of current digital TV signals. Analogue is exactly the same in the transmitter's fringe areas or if you're shielded by high ground. Even the leaves on deciduous trees can make the difference between clear and snowy or snowny and zilch.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
So are we ripping out our car radios to put in something that is no better or in cases worse, just to be able to receive hundreds of extra stations catering for minorities ?
No FM/AM by 2012 - Bromptonaut
Both car radios are analogue only as are the other 7 sets disrtibuted around living rooms, bedrooms and bathrooms in the house. They range from nearly new to 25 years old.

Does anyone seriously believe all those sort of domestic sets are going to be replaced in the next five years?
No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
If you don't replace them, you'll be sitting in silence once the analogue signal is turned off.
No FM/AM by 2012 - the swiss tony
Does anyone seriously believe all those sort of domestic sets are going to be replaced
in the next five years?

If/when analogue is turned off, they will have to be, or everyone will be listening to static.....

Im against it, I prefer analogue over digital, at least with analogue if the signal is weak, you can still see/hear the transmission - poorly I admit, but with digital poor signal = at best 'chopping' at worst naff all...... im sick of seeing blocks on my sky rather than a little ghosting on terrestrial tv... but where I live i need sky.. cant get 5 at all without it :-(

No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
There is no target date for FM switchoff. 2020 at the earliest seems to be the internet consensus. It is not, repeat not being switched off in 2015.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Altea Ego
>Digital TV signals are a failure. They break up in bad weather- snow - heavy rain.

Mine dont

>The same can be said of DAB signals. They are subject to far more interference than the old analogue.

Mine are not.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
Lucky you. I have a freeview set that is virtually unwatchable unless the weather is fine. I gave up on the Sky dish for the same reason ( two separate locations ).
I have listened to a relatives DAB radio ( Sony ) and it goes in to Darlek mode a couple of times an hour.

No FM/AM by 2012 - the swiss tony
AE... you want to be careful, living next to the transmitter, you may get cancer.....
No FM/AM by 2012 - Altea Ego
Nope cant even see it.

I know how to put an aerial up tho and point it the right way

all the bits and bites are out there, you just nee dto know how to gather them


Also - somehow, dont know why, sony just cant make decent DAB front ends.

Edited by Altea Ego on 18/06/2009 at 23:32

No FM/AM by 2012 - Mr X
tinyurl.com/nnmret
Don't forget, we are talking static radios in the article, not sets in vehicles. Sets that are moving must surely have more of a problem keeping tuned in to the digital signal which tends to be localised, similar to mobile phone signals which also operate in cells.
No FM/AM by 2012 - Altea Ego
No its not like cells. Its just like local FM radio now, only broadcast in blocks of digital channels per frequency

Actually mobile is easier for dab. It can cope with quick dropouts (as when mobile), its the long dropouts (a static aerial not recieving) it cant cope with.

Its also very manufacturer dependant.

I have a pure dab radio, its ability to pick up dab anywhere is astonishing. The Sony is as deaf as a post. (check out lots of sony reviews for any kit, thier dab performance is very patchy)
No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
With reasonable signal levels DAB is more robust against fading / multipath effects than FM - it was designed that way. The issue at the moment is that we don't have reasonable signal levels everywhere, and DAB does have the same 'all or nothing' characteristics as Freeview and most other digital transmissions when the signal is poor.

Mr. X needs to sort his antenna / dish out, having had Sky for 12 years we get significant picture breakup maybe twice a year, usually when there's torrential rain at the satellite uplink location.
No FM/AM by 2012 - redviper
The Thing with Digital terrestial, esp TV, and it might (i dont know for sure) apply to DAB

Is that the transmitters at the moment are running on very low power, i guess that when the switch over commences that the transmitters will then be switched to full power, and things will be greatly improved.

Edited by redviper on 19/06/2009 at 10:10

No FM/AM by 2012 - SpamCan61 {P}
DAB uses a different frequency range to FM, so thankfully it doesn't have the complicated shuffling about that Freeview has, to co-exist with analogue. I must admit I've nver looked at the DAB covergae rollout strategy in detail, looks like they are still adding many 'fill in ' low power transmitters at least:-

www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/radio/digital...l
 

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