My Focus TDCi barely gets warm on my 12-mile commute in this weather.
So I've just covered the radiator grille with bodge tape in an effort to reduce the throughput of air.
Do you think it will make any difference?
{typo in header corrected}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/02/2009 at 12:39
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Sounds like either your thermostat is stuck open, air lock in the cooling system or a problem with the heater matrix. Does your car have an electric cooling fan that's staying on when it shouldn't?
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No, and the gauge does get to the central position if I drive a bit longer or give it some wellie.
I think it's just the old 'diesels running cool' syndrome, exacerbated by cold weather.
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Probably not much but every little helps.....I have a piece of lino permanently installed behind my Audi A6's front grill. The aircon condenser sits in front of the rad so it helps to protect it from high-speed grit. The trouble with modern efficient engines is that they don't produce enough waste heat for the cold weather!
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Have you tried keeping the HVAC control on recirculating mode? The only downside to that is it tends to fog the windows up
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Capt Chaos,
As you say, recirc = foggy windows and I don't think it makes much difference otherwise.
Handbook tells you not to drive 'for long' on recirc, probably for that reason.
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Handbook tells you not to drive 'for long' on recirc probably for that reason.
Probably also to limit the amount of your own CO2 emissions that you recirculate!
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My 1.6 307 Hdi warmed up this morning (-7C outside) after about 7 miles @ 50mph. The needle rises slowly to about 90C and then very quickly drops back to 75, effect of the thermostat opening I guess. It gives usable heat after about 3 miles. A bit of blanking might seem to be in order for you.
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A Triumph I had was fitted with a radiator blind which could be wound open and closed by a knob on the dashboard.
Never had the chance to try it, because it had broken/been removed by the time I got the car.
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Maybe one of these is the answer?
tinyurl.com/djtgv8
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A mains powered fan heater in the car for ten minutes is very effective if you have mains power nearby, cheaper than a kenlowe for the few days it is needed for.
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>Handbook tells you not to drive 'for long' on recirc, probably for that reason [fogged windows].
There's another one too. The windows fog up because you're not venting out one product of respiration - water vapour. The other product - CO 2 - is building up too and could get to a level where it affects your alertness. More of a problem with more people in the car - but then more people will help warm it up too.
I've found the cabin stays coolish in my Volvo diesel on long motorway trips in even moderately cold weather. I've taken it that it's just the engine running efficiently - it averages about 47mpg in all driving - and not wasting much heat to send my way. Winding the CC dial up a couple of degrees above my normal 22 helps a bit; putting on a sweater before I go to work does the rest.
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>>Radiator blanked off - will I overheat?>>
No, but the coolant might...:-)
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i've run with the rad part blanked off for years, due to mild winters i got out off the habit, in the old days i had a blind as mentioned that i could operate from inside the car, operated just like a window blind, another dodge was to take the mechanical cooling fan off for the winter, it also improved performance and economy, slightly.
More recently i used some corregated plastic on the bottom part off the radiator, supported by a wire at each end.
Diesel engines are designed to run cooler than petrol, as you already know.
Dont run with the aircon on, you may find the condenser fan running.
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Diesel engines are designed to run cooler than petrol as you already know.
Diesels' coolant usually takes longer to warm up because a bigger proportion of the fuel's energy goes into powering the car and a lesser proportion goes to waste via heating up the coolant, but diesels aren't intentionally designed to run cooler. In fact once the coolant reaches the thermostat temperature there should be no difference.
Edited by L'escargot on 09/02/2009 at 07:05
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Don't they still produce a number of times their useful output as waste heat?
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Don't they still produce a number of times their useful output as waste heat?
As a rough guide, the energy in the fuel ends up as follows:-
25% goes to produce useful power to move the vehicle
35% goes into the coolant
35% out of the exhaust
5% is used up in friction and flexing the tyres
Source of information tinyurl.com/adfo4z
Edited by L'escargot on 10/02/2009 at 10:14
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>>5% is used up in friction and flexing the tyres
That's a figure which sounds about right, and makes a mockery of those who put their car on a rolling road dynamometer, and find a disappointing power value at the wheels, but then say that because of the losses, this means there's much more power at the flywheel.
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The blanking of radiator grills went out with high button boots. It might have been beneficial when cooling fans were belt-driven and turned continuously, but the advent of thermostatically controlled motor driven fans made blanking virtually valueless.
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...motor driven fans made blanking virtually valueless...
Not sure about that.
Hot water comes into the top of the rad, trickles down all the little tubes and emerges cooler at the bottom.
Common sense tells me more heat will be got rid of if the radiator has cold air blasting through it at 60mph.
Not saying my little scheme will work, the grille is small and the radiator is set back some way from it.
But if I truly blanked the surface of the radiator, I reckon the car would overheat.
The rad depends on air flow - that's why there's a fan - to force/suck air through it.
Edited by ifithelps on 09/02/2009 at 07:19
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Hot water comes into the top of the rad trickles down all the little tubes and emerges cooler at the bottom. >>
If the engine isn't up to temperature then the thermostat should be closed, so there won't be any hot water passing into the radiator.
It sounds to me as if the thermostat is faulty, or is the wrong specification.
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There's also a lot of cold air,snow etc. hitting the side of transverse mounted engines-not a large cooling effect but some-remember the Mini-could blank grille completely but it did have side mounted rad.
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Yes, and there used to be an elbow-shaped air duct which was often missing, leading to overheating.
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The water thermostat for a diesel engine is set to open at a lower temperature, than a petrol engine, hence diesels run cooler.
By reducing the movment of air the cooling effect is reduced, so warm up time is reduced.
The cooling system is designed to work in both high and low temperatures, is is always a compromise. By blanking of some of the air flow off, normal engine temperature is achieved quicker.
I did this for 20 years during the winter months, on my 3 mile to work comute.
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The water thermostat for a diesel engine is set to open at a lower temperature than a petrol engine hence diesels run cooler.
According to my Haynes manual for the Mk 1 Focus, thermostat operating temperatures are as follows.
1.4 and 1.6 petrol engine
Start to open 82°C
Fully open 96°C
1.8 and 2.0 petrol engine
Start to open 92°C
Fully open 99°C
Diesel engine
Start to open 87°C
Fully open 102°C
I don't suppose they're markedly different for more recent versions. If anyone has got a Haynes manual for a recent car we should be able to settle the argument with a fair degree of certainty.
Edited by L'escargot on 10/02/2009 at 08:02
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It's not tied to petrol or diesel.Northen Europe specification cars get a high rate thermostat along with larger heater matrix and smaller rad.Southern Europe cars get lower rate thermostat with smaller heater matrix and bigger rad.The UK taking a relatively small quantity of RHD cars tends to get whatever they have most of.
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It's not tied to petrol or diesel.
Well, I stated my source of information. What's yours?
;-)
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I blocked off most of my grille on VW Passat 2.5 TDI using pipe insulation. The same stuff as here....
farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3268425197_86d5bb444e...0
It has improved the mpg by about <10%, not sure if it gets warm quicker as it has an auxiliary electric heater.
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L'escargot,much better than a Haynes manual-not putting it on here because I'd end up with more questions than you or Screwloose get.I'll e-mail it to you if you will tell me your address.
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L'escargot
Four years ago when i got my first diesel this web site gave me the imformation re the diesel car running cooler than the petrol.
The site format has now changed, so maybe the imformation given was incorrect?
So i concede i appear to be in error.
Still i have provided the site address below as it is great in its simplicity.
auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system8.htm
Also i am imformed that the latest BMWs have heat sensitve engine bay vanes/flaps to assist in a quicker warm up.
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...diesels run cooler than petrols...
If I open the bonnet of my 1.8 diesel Focus after a good run, I can't feel much heat.
Do the same on my brother's 1.8 petrol Civic and the heat hits you.
In that sense, diesels run cooler than petrols.
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